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Messages - Fred93

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Investors - LC / Tax forms from transfer to Alto?
« on: March 02, 2022, 01:12:49 PM »
I've never had tax forms to deal with on an IRA transfer in the past.   Seems like this is one thing the IRS has made totally automatic.  :-)
General P2P Lending Discussion / sharestates? (real estate p2p)
« on: December 17, 2021, 08:21:10 AM »
Sorry I can't offer any experience with Sharestates. But can you offer your experiences with Groundfloor? Have you experienced any defaults or delayed payments?

Sure.  Lots.  A significant fraction of the loans default.  (I don't have stats in front of me at the moment.)  However, these are secured real estate loans, so after a considerable delay where they dive in and work with the borrower, then they move thru a complex set of legal steps to foreclose, and then eventually you get your money back.  Unless they have mis-appraised the property, you get your money back.   There's just a delay.  Requires a bit of patience.  This is VERY different from the situation at LendingClub or Prosper, where defaults almost always result in total loss of investment.

One aspect of this situation is that it takes a long time to understand how well you're doin'.  You have to allow time for defaults to work out.  My spreadsheet shows I'm makin'  6.88% IRR after everything, even including my estimate of what fraction of the currently defaulted loans will pay off.  My return has been remarkably consistent over time. 

You used the words "delayed payment", but this is essentially the same as default.  Most of the Groundfloor loans have only one single payment, at the end of the loan, usually 1 year from start.  That's another reason it takes a while to understand how well you're doin'.  You don't get that monthly feedback like you do at LC and Prosper.  If you want to calculate your return in a meaningful way as you roll along, you have to include a term for accrued loan payments discounted by some guessed loss fraction.

I might mention that my 6.88% is lower than Groundfloor's return estimates.  This is exactly the same as the situation at LC and Prosper.  In the case of Groundfloor, one of the substantial reasons their estimate and mine differ is that my money sits allocated to loans that are not yet funded for a considerable time.  I commit the money, and then it can take a couple of weeks for the loan to close.  They compute return based on invested money, and I compute return based on my whole account.  There may be other reasons, but I compute IRR based on my account value, and I'm happy with the result.

I invest, as I did at LC and Prosper, in mostly the higher quality loans, and avoid a few states I consider sketchy.

I started investing at groundfloor in 9/2015, so that's a 6 year track record.
General P2P Lending Discussion / sharestates? (real estate p2p)
« on: December 16, 2021, 04:18:26 AM »
I am in  .  I'm always surprised when they don't often get mentioned in a list such as they one you gave.

They have a large # deals open at any one time, so I have no trouble investing a bunch of cash when I dump it in.

I'm looking to maybe diversify, as these are all small companies, and that led me to look into Sharestates, which led me to the question above.

General P2P Lending Discussion / sharestates? (real estate p2p)
« on: December 07, 2021, 06:13:34 PM »
Anyone have any experience with sharestates?

I created an account, but the first thing I notice is that there are only 2 loans open for funding.  Are these guys too small to be of value?

I'd like any feedback from sharestates users.

I've been investing for several years at groundfloor, and they have dozens open at once.
Investors - LC / AltoIRA == Bozos
« on: November 05, 2021, 12:13:48 AM »
This question has been discussed several times on the forum.  I believe a recent answer said LC would send you a check, but you had to ask for it.  I'm workin' from memory here, so that may be only partially correct.
Investors - LC / AltoIRA == Bozos
« on: October 27, 2021, 11:54:43 AM »
Check arrived at TDAmeritrade today 10/27.   Only 29 days after my request. 

Woo hoo.  No more dealings with Alto!  ...unless some payments come from written-off notes.  Should I close my LC IRA account now?
Investors - LC / AltoIRA == Bozos
« on: October 26, 2021, 06:11:22 PM »
Heh heh.  The alto guy told me the estimated date for the check to arrive at TDAmeritrade was 10/25.  Because the check has not arrived, I pinged them this morning, and got the following reply...
Date:      Tue, Oct 26, 2021 3:02 pm
Hi xxxxxxxxx,

Thank you for reaching out! I just confirmed with our Financial Operations team that the check has been processed and currently has an expected delivery date of October 28, 2021. Please let me know if you need any additional information.


Jesse Holmes
Client Experience Team

My initial request to them was on 9/28.  If the check does arrive on 10/28 that would be exactly 1 month.
Investors - LC / AltoIRA == Bozos
« on: October 19, 2021, 02:41:44 PM »
sounds like a huge PITA


What you have posted is concerning.

Nothing to be "concerned" about, as there's no decision you can make to change things.  You just gotta play it thru.  I'm sure your money is safe, but these middlemen at Alto are bozos. 
Investors - LC / AltoIRA == Bozos
« on: October 14, 2021, 03:30:07 PM »
Here's their explanation and non-apology for delaying my funds 1 month. 
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 09:25:08
Hi xxxxxxxxxxx,

Thank you for following up and I sincerely apologize for the delay. Once the request has gone through a lengthy review process by our compliance team. It is then submitted by our Financial Operations team to our Bank to be issued. Our bank then provides us with an estimated delivery date. Again, this is an estimated time frame, I believe your custodian should be expecting the check very soon. Please let me know if you need any additional information.


xxxxx xxxxxxx
Client Experience Team

The "lengthy review process" is of course simply the checking of a few check boxes.  The submission "by our Financial Operations team to our bank" means a person types in a few things on a web site, to tell the bank to issue a check.  Routine stuff.

Investors - LC / AltoIRA == Bozos
« on: October 13, 2021, 11:11:14 PM »
It gets wilder.

My LC IRA is done.  All the (non written off) loans are paid.

I transferred the last of the funds from LC to Alto.  Then I had TDAmeritrade send a request to Alto to pull the last bit of cash out of Alto to my TDAmeritrade IRA.

I made that request on 9/28.  TDAmeritrade sent the request letter to Alto the next day.  Then on 10/12, I asked Alto what was going on.  They  said they hadn't heard from TDA.  Checking with TDA, they claimed the letter had been sent, but they overnighted it again to Alto. 

Then I sent a message to Alto telling them what I just heard from TDA.

Then... I got a message from Alto saying ...
Thank you for reaching out! I just confirmed with our Financial Operations team that the check has been processed and currently has an expected delivery date of October 25, 2021. Please let me know if you need any additional information.

What this means is that they've now admitted that they had the paperwork for the last 2 weeks, during which time they sent me and the TDAmeritrade folks on a wild goose chase tracking it down.  But it's worse than that...  A completely ordinary first class mail takes 4-5 days to go across the country, so there is no reason in hell that a check that has already been cut would have an expected delivery date two weeks in the future, unless they are intentionally holding it. 

Looks to me like Alto is intentionally delaying payments.  In this case, they've added 1 month of delay.

Alto must be aging payments intentionally.  Only reason I can think for doing this is to help their own cash flow (ie "keep the lights on").  But client funds are supposed to be segregated, so that doesn't make much sense, unless they aren't really segregated.

Bozos.  Their web now says my account has $2400 more than it should have.  That will sit there forever, or until they figure it out, whichever comes first.

General Lending Club Discussion / LC stock surge today
« on: July 29, 2021, 09:03:18 AM »
LC stock is up 49% today.  Wow.
Investors - LC / AltoIRA == Bozos
« on: July 15, 2021, 06:05:17 PM »
I got an email response from Alto today...

You are correct sir, at this time our system does not automatically update. We will have a system in the future where it will be updated, but at this time, the numbers do not match due to it not being updated since June 3rd.

That explains why Alto's numbers have not changed, but it does not explain why they're wrong by more than $1,000.  The number Alto displays was wrong for June 3rd as well as being wrong for now.

I cannot update on our end at this time, but you have the ability to manually update it. If you click on the pencil icon next to your amount on the dashboard, you can put in the amount that you are seeing at LendingClub. Overall though, the amount you see at LendingClub is correct.  We are hoping to make a plan with LendingClub where these amounts will be updated for you on a regular basis, but if you would like it done now, you can follow those directions above.

So it appears Alto hasn't written software to transfer numbers from LC periodically.  This makes the numbers Alto displays essentially worthless.
Investors - LC / AltoIRA == Bozos
« on: July 15, 2021, 05:03:50 PM »
Today I make it official.  I officially declare the folks at Alto to be "bozos".  I don't do this lightly.  I gave them several chances. They failed every time.

1. They fail at customer service.  Their web site shows NO phone number for customer service.  You have to email them.  Their customer service person "Patti" misunderstands the issue, and sends dismissive replies, and there is no evidence that they ever look into anything.

2. They fail at accounting.  From the first day that they said my account had transferred, the balance shown by Alto was about $1,000 lower than the balance shown by LendingClub.  I notified them 6/28, including screen captures of both LC and AltoIRA showing the mismatched numbers.  Patti was dismissive, claiming that in a few days cash would transfer from Strata and everything would be ok.  I never had any cash sitting at Strata so this seemed unlikely.  Now, two weeks later, there is still a >$1,000 discrepancy between the account value shown by LC vs Alto.  I'm calm, as the money is at LC, and surely eventually Alto will figure out how to display the right number.  It can't be very difficult.  They get daily account data from LendingClub, and all they have to do is display those numbers they are handed, yet they fail.  I want to be clear about this: I don't mind an accounting error.  It happens from time to time.  However, if you have your company set up so that when I take my time to report and explain a problem to you, you are dismissive and don't even look into the problem, then you are a bozo.

3. They fail at security.  They asked all customers to do a password reset recently.  I have no problem with that.  They sent email saying I would soon receive an email from Eric Satz telling me how to reset my password, but get this... The email said I would know the 2nd email was official because they would include a video of Eric Satz in the email!   
"Additionally, so you know it is us, this email will contain a video message from our CEO, Eric Satz."
This indicates a very basic misunderstanding of computer security, because an included video does not authenticate an email message. 

I wrote to them, explaining this, trying to educate them, but they were dismissive, telling me that nothing is perfect, and suggesting that I could send them a message asking if the email was authentic, and they would respond.  This tells me they are simply clueless.

A few days later, the email from Eric Satz arrived.  As advertised, it contains a video of Eric.  Well, I can't say for sure that is Eric, as I have never seen him before, but it is at least a talking head that claims to be Eric.  At the end of the video he gives out a customer service phone number!  Glory be.  A  phone number!  877-673-1557  There is still no phone # shown on their web site. 

Investors - LC / AltoIRA transfer
« on: July 13, 2021, 09:55:23 PM »
A buddy of mine works at Alto.  Pretty cool to see them being a place LC notes are ending up :)

How big a place are they?  From their appearance so far, seems like a pretty small shop.
I think most such status updates are just copied from whatever the borrower reports.  I doubt they have staff enough to go around and physically check status of each property.   I see some updates read "The borrower has reported that...", which is explicit about the source.  I can't claim that's on every update, because I haven't read every update.

The nice thing about GF loans that default is that you get your money back most of the time, unlike LendingClub & Prosper.  [I dunno about you, but I have got my money back almost every time.]  The real risk with GF is the quality of the valuations.  As long as they lend less than the property is worth, you're in pretty good shape.

The downside is that it takes a year or two for the repossession legal process.

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