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Post by: New Jersey Guy on February 03, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Post by: New Jersey Guy on February 03, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Is there something about this bank withdrawal system I don't understand?
Guy has a $.70 monthly payment (or $791/mo. in normal people talk)
His payment apparently failed, but yet a "$.02 Partial Payment" is posted to his account. No payment plan.
What do they do? Do they keep hitting the account, reducing the amount each time til they found a balance and sucked the guys last $22 out of his account?
I've noticed that quite a bit. There is no borrowers contact note shown below the summary. So I don't think they spoke to the borrower. And even so, I don't think a borrower is going to say "Yea, I know I owe you $791. I don't got it, but I'll tell you what. There's about $22 bucks in my account if you feel that will help. Go ahead and grab that and I'll catch up with you next month."
How does this partial payment thing really work?
Guy has a $.70 monthly payment (or $791/mo. in normal people talk)
His payment apparently failed, but yet a "$.02 Partial Payment" is posted to his account. No payment plan.
What do they do? Do they keep hitting the account, reducing the amount each time til they found a balance and sucked the guys last $22 out of his account?
I've noticed that quite a bit. There is no borrowers contact note shown below the summary. So I don't think they spoke to the borrower. And even so, I don't think a borrower is going to say "Yea, I know I owe you $791. I don't got it, but I'll tell you what. There's about $22 bucks in my account if you feel that will help. Go ahead and grab that and I'll catch up with you next month."
How does this partial payment thing really work?
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Post by: rawraw on February 03, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Post by: rawraw on February 03, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
I think it involves a magic 8-Ball and some physics.
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Post by: thezinfan on February 04, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Post by: thezinfan on February 04, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
The way this USUALLY works is that they hit it once. If it's not a complete payment, it is treated as a missed payment.
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Post by: yojoakak on February 04, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Post by: yojoakak on February 04, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
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Post by: DanB on February 04, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Post by: DanB on February 04, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
You guys all appear to have a rather heartwarming belief/trust in the accuracy, timeliness, comprehensiveness, consistency, veracity (& a few other words I can't think of right now) of the "collections log". It's quite charming really (if not a bit frightening as well) that you're able to draw such comfort from a few notations. 
No, no, no,...........I'm not suggesting that it is all bs. I'm suggesting that I've been doing this long enough (& have lived long enough) to recognize the purpose of the collection log. Whether everything there is up to date, accurate, complete etc.,................is actually a bit secondary to the "belief" that it actually is, as you guys have demonstrated.
Ok, go ahead, let me have the criticism!
No, no, no,...........I'm not suggesting that it is all bs. I'm suggesting that I've been doing this long enough (& have lived long enough) to recognize the purpose of the collection log. Whether everything there is up to date, accurate, complete etc.,................is actually a bit secondary to the "belief" that it actually is, as you guys have demonstrated.
Ok, go ahead, let me have the criticism!
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Post by: TravelingPennies on February 04, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Post by: TravelingPennies on February 04, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
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Post by: TravelingPennies on February 04, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Post by: TravelingPennies on February 04, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Ok, rawraw, not you of course. You are the epitome of realism, logic & an inspiration to us all.
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Post by: TravelingPennies on February 04, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Post by: TravelingPennies on February 04, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Off topic but................I'd like to conduct a poll to find out which among the many canned sentences in the "collection log" are the ones that provide the most comfort to investors. Is it the "borrower promised to pay", or "borrower contacted LC"?
Because I'm fairly certain it can't be the "contacted borrower's co-worker", email bounced or the "skip trace" ones.
Because I'm fairly certain it can't be the "contacted borrower's co-worker", email bounced or the "skip trace" ones.
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Post by: TravelingPennies on February 04, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Post by: TravelingPennies on February 04, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
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Post by: Keltset on February 05, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Post by: Keltset on February 05, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
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Post by: TravelingPennies on February 05, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Post by: TravelingPennies on February 05, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Keltset.........Now you've done it! Did you have to be so honest? You're removed the comfort blanket from a bunch of transparency believers. What, you spoke the truth? Come on buddy, what were you thinking? This is America.........No one wants to hear the truth! Just look at who we just re-elected?
Ok, well I just want everyone here to know that I'm not the one responsible when people start jumping off of bridges, or offing themselves. I was perfectly content just making jokes about the log. (I had plenty of material to last me months.) It was Keltset, who without warning, suddenly decided to launch 2 torpedoes into the ship named "LC Collection Log" & send it limping back to port.
Just look at who we just re-elected? Ok, well I just want everyone here to know that I'm not the one responsible when people start jumping off of bridges, or offing themselves. I was perfectly content just making jokes about the log. (I had plenty of material to last me months.) It was Keltset, who without warning, suddenly decided to launch 2 torpedoes into the ship named "LC Collection Log" & send it limping back to port.
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Post by: TravelingPennies on February 05, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Post by: TravelingPennies on February 05, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
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Post by: TravelingPennies on February 05, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Post by: TravelingPennies on February 05, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
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Post by: TravelingPennies on February 05, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Post by: TravelingPennies on February 05, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
I have to agree with Keltset on this. Those log notations are so vague and haphazard.
"Customer contacted Lending Club". Okay, so does mean the customer called to confirm they are aware they are behind? Does it mean that they made a promise to pay? It could mean they called to tell LC they got laid off and can't pay. It could mean they called and told LC they WON'T pay.
As interesting as the log might be, none of this still answers the original question of this post.
How do they come up with these 2-cent partial payments?
"Customer contacted Lending Club". Okay, so does mean the customer called to confirm they are aware they are behind? Does it mean that they made a promise to pay? It could mean they called to tell LC they got laid off and can't pay. It could mean they called and told LC they WON'T pay.
As interesting as the log might be, none of this still answers the original question of this post.
How do they come up with these 2-cent partial payments?
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Post by: TravelingPennies on February 05, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Post by: TravelingPennies on February 05, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
New Jersey Guy..........Obviously I can't be sure without seeing the loan & I've hesitated to answer the question because I've been trying to figure out why no one else has answered it yet.............when there are at least 2 very obvious (at least to me) possible answers.
And though I can certainly appreciate the humor, you could probably help things along a bit by not referring to them as "2 cent partial payments"...............because that's not really what they are & perhaps people are taking you literally?
And though I can certainly appreciate the humor, you could probably help things along a bit by not referring to them as "2 cent partial payments"...............because that's not really what they are & perhaps people are taking you literally?
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Post by: william on February 05, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Post by: william on February 05, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Maybe it's because the borrower was contacted by LC and then put on a payment plan but the log as many people said is not accurate or updated as many think it is. Just watch the note and see if it ever does goes into a payment plan status.
Quote"> from: DanB on February 06, 2013, 01:36:48 AM
Quote"> from: DanB on February 06, 2013, 01:36:48 AM
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Post by: DanB on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
Post by: DanB on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
New Jersey Guy...........Ok, here's a hint at one possible answer. What does ACH & automobile automatic transmissions have in common vis a vis LC borrowers & new car buyers? Don't say I never did anything for you (for free).
Yes, i know. First Keltset decimates the illusion of the collection log & now I've put a few porous holes into the strategy of Folio sellers of potential distressed notes,............... who based their strategies without taking the above into account
Yes, i know. First Keltset decimates the illusion of the collection log & now I've put a few porous holes into the strategy of Folio sellers of potential distressed notes,............... who based their strategies without taking the above into account
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Post by: New Jersey Guy on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
Post by: New Jersey Guy on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
"you could probably help things along a bit by not referring to them as "2 cent partial payments"...............because that's not really what they are & perhaps people are taking you literally? "
Dan, 2-cents, not meaning 2 meager pennies paid instead of a $450 payment. Rather, it's in relation to a $25 note.
Here! Here's a 6-cent partial payment.
Look at due date 12-23
https://www.lendingclub.com/foliofn/loanPerf.action?loan_id=697250&order_id=1451454¬e_id=4058411
That 6-cent "Partial Payment" equates to about $29 vs. his actual payment of $251/mo.
Now, look in the collection log. There is no indication (that we know of) of any contact with the borrower. No payment plan, no anything.
So again, I raise the question?
He had a payment of $251 due.
Instead, a mere $29 was paid.
Does Lending Club keep trying to debit the account (over and over) by lowering the amount asked for until they find a balance? For example:
$251.....Declined
$200.....Declined
$100.....Declined
$45.......Declined
$30.......Declined
$29.......APPROVED!
Dan, 2-cents, not meaning 2 meager pennies paid instead of a $450 payment. Rather, it's in relation to a $25 note.
Here! Here's a 6-cent partial payment.
Look at due date 12-23
https://www.lendingclub.com/foliofn/loanPerf.action?loan_id=697250&order_id=1451454¬e_id=4058411
That 6-cent "Partial Payment" equates to about $29 vs. his actual payment of $251/mo.
Now, look in the collection log. There is no indication (that we know of) of any contact with the borrower. No payment plan, no anything.
So again, I raise the question?
He had a payment of $251 due.
Instead, a mere $29 was paid.
Does Lending Club keep trying to debit the account (over and over) by lowering the amount asked for until they find a balance? For example:
$251.....Declined
$200.....Declined
$100.....Declined
$45.......Declined
$30.......Declined
$29.......APPROVED!
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Post by: TravelingPennies on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
Post by: TravelingPennies on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
New Jersey Guy............I understand your question perfectly. What I don't understand is why you seem so incredibly confident in the "collection log's" accuracy, timeliness, integrity etc., even after Keltset (& to a lesser extent myself) have pointed out the many "issues" inherent in these logs. If you were to accept even half of what we've said, then you wouldn't keep going back to the "log" as if everything written or not written in it is like the word of God!
Once you come to accept the "collection log" for what it is, the answers to these questions that seem to have you flummoxed will come much easier to you.
Furthermore,............... I have also provided you with hints to an alternate possible answer to your question which you've chosen to ignore. Sorry, but just being the answer man isn't that amusing to me. You'll have to play along & put a bit more self effort into this if you want my input
Once you come to accept the "collection log" for what it is, the answers to these questions that seem to have you flummoxed will come much easier to you.
Furthermore,............... I have also provided you with hints to an alternate possible answer to your question which you've chosen to ignore. Sorry, but just being the answer man isn't that amusing to me. You'll have to play along & put a bit more self effort into this if you want my input
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Post by: yojoakak on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
Post by: yojoakak on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
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Post by: Keltset on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
Post by: Keltset on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
The most likely scenario is that the person called up, or was called, and said they can't make their payment. The collector/representative asked what he could pay or pressured a 'good faith' payment on the account and this was the result. Back in my collection day's I could always pressure a person on the phone to pay at least $25.00 on the spot.
It's not effective for LC to use the:
100%... decline
80%... decline
60%... decline
40%... decline
20%... decline
10%... approved
Why? Their payment method is via ACH and not debit/credit card. ACH is slow and cumbersome and it would take over 20 day's to process the above transactions if they were hit/fail/try next. Now I do know I used to send 20%, 30%, and 50% out all at once and whatever (if any) cleared it cleared but this is not the common action of a collector. Now you may potentially find a collector savvy enough to realize they can verify balances over the phone and take that amount, I would presume this is less likely the scenario again because this is not common in the industry. The person was more likely hounded into paying something and so he/she did. The log wasn't updated because the collector/representative didn't notate the actual contact just managed the payment portion of it.
Payment plan would indicate that specifics of payments were scheduled in order to switch the status of the account (putting it into a payment plan). This probably did not happen as the arrangement or payment did not involve the reality of future payments that the collector/representative could schedule.
General rule: Collection logs exist for self preservation and not for any other real purpose. LC's management may want to pass this information on and wish it to always be perfect but implementing that is an entirely different story. I have never met a collector that properly notates and updates every single account for every single attempt and/or contact. It simply doesn't happen. Also keep in mind, we are seeing a very limited scope of the notes on the account which means that a note would have to be done a specific way for the line to populate to the retailers (us). What if they didn't use the 'Customer called in' type of note but instead selected 'Other' and typed in their note. 'Other' wouldn't prompt action onto the retail note whereas 'Customer called in' or 'Customer promised to pay' could. (Obviously I'm making assumptions about how their systems work but I would presume they basically all work the same and its a logical connection to assume a ptp automatically populates the retail side whereas some other type of notation may not.)
Bottom line is that collection logs are useless for anything outside of arbitration or legal action/defense. With the exception of some types of good information that can be gained such as PTP's without payment coming through or BK notifications, and the transition to a 3'rd party agency....
It's not effective for LC to use the:
100%... decline
80%... decline
60%... decline
40%... decline
20%... decline
10%... approved
Why? Their payment method is via ACH and not debit/credit card. ACH is slow and cumbersome and it would take over 20 day's to process the above transactions if they were hit/fail/try next. Now I do know I used to send 20%, 30%, and 50% out all at once and whatever (if any) cleared it cleared but this is not the common action of a collector. Now you may potentially find a collector savvy enough to realize they can verify balances over the phone and take that amount, I would presume this is less likely the scenario again because this is not common in the industry. The person was more likely hounded into paying something and so he/she did. The log wasn't updated because the collector/representative didn't notate the actual contact just managed the payment portion of it.
Payment plan would indicate that specifics of payments were scheduled in order to switch the status of the account (putting it into a payment plan). This probably did not happen as the arrangement or payment did not involve the reality of future payments that the collector/representative could schedule.
General rule: Collection logs exist for self preservation and not for any other real purpose. LC's management may want to pass this information on and wish it to always be perfect but implementing that is an entirely different story. I have never met a collector that properly notates and updates every single account for every single attempt and/or contact. It simply doesn't happen. Also keep in mind, we are seeing a very limited scope of the notes on the account which means that a note would have to be done a specific way for the line to populate to the retailers (us). What if they didn't use the 'Customer called in' type of note but instead selected 'Other' and typed in their note. 'Other' wouldn't prompt action onto the retail note whereas 'Customer called in' or 'Customer promised to pay' could. (Obviously I'm making assumptions about how their systems work but I would presume they basically all work the same and its a logical connection to assume a ptp automatically populates the retail side whereas some other type of notation may not.)
Bottom line is that collection logs are useless for anything outside of arbitration or legal action/defense. With the exception of some types of good information that can be gained such as PTP's without payment coming through or BK notifications, and the transition to a 3'rd party agency....
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Post by: TravelingPennies on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
Post by: TravelingPennies on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
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Post by: Zach on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
Post by: Zach on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
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Post by: TravelingPennies on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
Post by: TravelingPennies on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
zpbsfg.............What is a great point?
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Post by: TravelingPennies on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
Post by: TravelingPennies on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
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Post by: TravelingPennies on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
Post by: TravelingPennies on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
Keltset..............I for one would like to thank you for taking the time & effort to break down the collection log for us & for sharing your real world experiences with these types of logs. I would like to think that others reading this thread will also express their gratitude, once they've snapped out of their p2p version of "denial" on the whole matter.
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Post by: TravelingPennies on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
Post by: TravelingPennies on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
Quote"> from: DanB
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Post by: TravelingPennies on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
Post by: TravelingPennies on December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM
Keltset............Thank you. You're too kind.