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 So we talked a lot about disclosure bills disclosure law, California

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 passed their own one in 2018. And you may not

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 know about it. You may not have heard of it. You may not have comply with it, because guess what,

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 they haven't actually implemented it. And that's because the

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 ideals of what the bill intended

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 to accomplish or very hard to actually put into

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 place. Some of the numbers that were required to be

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 in these disclosures are not actually able to

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 be calculated and so you kind of meat, you

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 know fantasy vs. Reality, you want to do.

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 Something. Yeah, and you're being told it's not going to work the way you think and

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 you say well you're only saying that because you don't want to comply and

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 then what they have found after the law

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 has been passed that. Oh, maybe you were right. This is a

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 lot harder than it looks and so California law was passed for

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 years ago. And what do we have to show for it? Just

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 more negotiating back and forth about how we can actually gonna

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 do this New York past its own commercial, financing disclosure

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 law. We've talked a lot about that. What happened? The

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 the head of the Nyo?

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 DFS kind of took a look at it and said, okay. We

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 saw what you wrote. Here's our proposals for how we're

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 going to put into place. They sent it out to everybody. They got a

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 lot of comment, commentary and feedback and they learned. Oh,

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 this is harder than we thought. It's not exactly what we

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 thought. So they're going back to the drawing board where they're going to send out

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 a revised proposal for how the law would play out. The

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 public then has the opportunity to go back and comment on

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 it. Yeah, and then I guess we'll be another process where

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 they then finalize it and then they will choose when to

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 To implement it and give people time to implement it.

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 So here we have two states passed things, haven't implemented

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 it Virginia, a recently passed their own

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 disclosure law to too recent for it to

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 have gone into place yet. And then Utah past its own bill as

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 well. But people look to New York and California me say this

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 is a success two massive states have

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 passed their own law. So something like that gets brought to

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 the state of Maryland. Look at what New York and California. Did we

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 too need disclosures to help and save everybody, right?

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 Yeah.

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 And you have literally everyone. It seemed like it got on

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 board in the state legislature. It was passing through

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 the Senate, basically unanimously gets brought to the house. People

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 said this bill looks pretty good who doesn't

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 want disclosures. Yeah, who doesn't want to help, you know, save small

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 business or whatever and it's really not about saving them. Everyone

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 is all caught up in the idea of if

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 we have these disclosures then small business owners will

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 be better informed. But then what I think it goes back

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 to when we spoke about Virginia was

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 being transparent, making sure everyone fully

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 understands, what they're getting themselves into regarding,

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 you know, actually knowing that those

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 small business owner, you bet, you know, pretty

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 much started from the ground up. They fully understand our a, this is what

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 I'm getting myself into. I know exactly all the details. So I'm

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 not going to get screwed. Yeah. Well, that's how the bill is

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 presented to the public. Correct. A transparency and

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 disclosure just give the business owners, all the

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 information. They need to make an informed decision. Don't withhold any

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 of the information.

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 Kitchen, and when you put it like that, it's like well who wouldn't

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 be on board with that? Yeah. The problem is that the

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 disclosures that they're being asked to provide may

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 not be able to be calculated not because they don't

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 want to calculate it. But because mathematically it can't a

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 lot of legislators can hear words like

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 can't be done as resistance. Yeah, you

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 just don't want to comply and they're like no we're Finance people.

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 This number can't be calculate it or this number

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 that you're asking for.

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 Is already federally defined and

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 the federal definition of the number. You want said, it has

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 to be done like this and we can't do that. They

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 hear it as a resistance. They don't hear it as factual. Yeah.

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 It's so everyone jumps on board with disclosure but

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 in Maryland, what happened, is that the regulator's themselves? Or

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 the ones? The kind of intervened. Yeah. And were like, whoa, whoa, whoa,

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 whoa, whoa. Before you all get caught up in,

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 like we're going to put out all this disclosure, who's gonna be in charge of

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 policing all the stuff. Yeah, who's gonna be in charge of managing all this? Because

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 Doesn't comply who they're going to report it to us, right?

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 Or if someone's you know, a blatant violator who's going to be in charge

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 of going enforcing the law and applying the penalties and doing the

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 investigation. Inducting the audits going to be us, right?

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 And what happens if we start taking the consumer, but,

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 you know, Consumer Protection Agency and start policing, commercial

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 finance, companies are commercial transactions. This branch

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 of enforcement isn't really all that familiar

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 with commercial transactions. And now you're asking us to apply

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 what we know here. Two things that we don't know anything about

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 Out. They gave a thumbs down. Two

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 branches of to

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 Maryland, Regulators gave a unfavorable report.

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 Yeah, to the bill that was

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 proposed. Even though there was bipartisan support by legislators.

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 And so what happened? The bill came up

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 for the bill did not come up to the floor for

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 a vote when the session adjourned for 2022, even

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 though it had all this momentum. Yeah, and

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 there was a lot of back and forth. There were people that were for the bill. There

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 were people

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 That were against the bill and guess what? What

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 happened in New York and California came up. And the question was,

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 how can you say it's not possible? Yeah, how

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 can you say it's not possible. They passed a law in New York and California. Now,

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 you're saying we shouldn't do it here. Well, they did pass

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 a law, but they weren't able to implement the law. So it kind

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 of undermines the argument, right? When you point to something, as the success

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 and say, you're just resisting because look what they did. Yeah,

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 they pass something, but they pass something that they couldn't implement. This

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 was actually raised by, I

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 The Maryland Department of Labor saying hey New

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 York past something, but they haven't implemented it

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 yet. Let's find out how that works. If you're able to

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 do it successfully maybe this will work.

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 But right now we're living in the law of we don't know what's going to

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 happen of all this uncertainty. Yeah and all the pressures going to fall back on

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 us because yes guess what happens if these Regulators are now

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 tasked with all this policing of

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 commercial Finance. They're going to need more staff, more

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 training. Bigger budgets you had with

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 agencies now,

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 Go to the government. Say we need to raise taxes

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 to go and do all these things. So now we

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 have the law of unintended consequences of what happens taxes. Go up budgets.

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 Well, you have all these other things happening and

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 it just creates the just gigantic mess. So you have these lofty

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 ideals for what the bill wanted to accomplish. But

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 when you put it into, you know contrast with

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 what reality what what reality

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 would actually do it failed on that

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 on that on that basis. So something that we saw

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 was

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 Is that this is the third time. Something like this has

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 been as failed essentially. Well,

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 do you think there will be a fourth time? Oh, 100%.

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 Yeah, 100%. This bill will

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 come back and I think it will come back because there

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 are still, there was clear bipartisan support for

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 it. I think what may happen

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 is that the language in that fourth go around will

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 change and that is because

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 They were still not successful. Yeah, so could

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 introduce the exact same bill. I think would

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 risk them having failure again for what they obviously

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 want to accomplish. Yeah, the bills language has already changed

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 each time. It's been introduced. This version

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 that we saw in the 2022 session

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 was drastically different than the one they introduced to

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 three years ago. Yeah. So a

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 lot of people would already argue that what was presented with a

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 major Improvement and perhaps, there were those

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 that

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 I could live with the language and there were certainly those in

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 the lending space that were proponents of the bill.

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 I don't want to give the impression that everybody was against

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 it. All the lenders were against this bill and everyone's against disclosure.

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 First of all, nobody is against disclosure. Yeah, everyone's

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 for things that make sense and to try to accomplish what

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 the legislators want to accomplish. But, you

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 know, at the end of the day, this particular language

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 just conflicted too much with

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 reality and The Regulators were the ones who voiced their

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 You know, their vote against it. Yeah. So again, we're not

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 lawyers, but this is, I'm just curious to ask you this question. Should

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 people in the industry in Maryland, New

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 York, California. Should they be worried? It's

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 too. It's actually, I mean, they

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 should be concerned. Should they pay attention? They

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 should pay attention. When should they do their due diligence? Yes, but

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 I, you know, at this point, given that

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 the first bill first law passed

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 on the matter.

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 Happened four years ago and it still has not been implemented.

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 We start to end up looking like the boy who cried wolf.

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 Yeah, we come on here, the new law. You're

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 all going to have to do this comply with that. It's going

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 to be hard costs are going to go up and now there's another one in

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 another state and and then at the end of the

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 day we go home and people are like so like wait,

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 so nothing actually changed yet. Yeah. I'm like, well, it's,

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 you know, it's still caught up. It's you know, it's complicated. And

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 then years go by. Yeah. Somebody at

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 Me with a lot of experience said, you

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 know, they've been hearing about all these disclosure laws and bills and regulations

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 for years and not a single one had ever gone into place. Yeah,

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 that's, that's, that's good to know. That's

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 interesting to know, but I mean, we'll

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 see if around for happened. Well, around for what happened.

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 Yeah, and we will report on it and it out but in terms of

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 like, you know, I think the urgency that we sometimes create

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 about how this is going to change everything immediately. It says it's going to

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 go into effect June first, right? So I guess

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 the question.

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 Is should people be freaking out right now? Now

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 definitely, definitely not. In fact, this

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 question was raised during one of the hearings and

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 that was if we pass this law they

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 were asking a business lending company. If we pass this law, will

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 you continue to do business in the state? Because it

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 was a test. It, this bill is as bad as

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 you say. Yeah, and it's going to restrict lending and

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 we pass it. Yep. And you still do exactly what

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 you were doing. Then you're kind of over exaggerating. Yeah.

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 The importance of it, aren't ya, right, but the answer that

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 was given and I'm not I'm not going to name. I'm not going to

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 say who it was. Was they don't know what the outcome is

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 going to be. They don't know if they would continue to do business and they can't

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 save others would either and part of that comes

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 from, they have no idea what the final rules are going to look like. Yeah,

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 because even if this law passes and The Regulators get ahold of

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 it, they're going to say. Now I see what New York and

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 California was talking about is going to be a headache. Yep.

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 No one knows like you can go to conferences and

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 You're from attorneys, who were there to kind of give guidance

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 on how to comply with upcoming laws and they say no offense, but

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 we just don't even have all the information. Yeah. Yeah,

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 and that depth that definitely was. I

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 mean speaking for New York specifically, there

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 was just a lot of back and forth back and forth. Like oh

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 like, hey, like comments are open, comments are closed, comments are

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 open again. It's like there's just so much back and forth. And then they

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 remember, remember they close the comments because I never told him anyone

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 who was open. Yeah. It was. People are waiting to find out

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 when the

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 Commenting period would start, and we may have been one

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 of the first to discover, that the comment period had already closed over

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 it. And we're like, when were

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 you going to tell everyone? Yeah, and they were actually like, oh, actually. Will

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 extend it. Yeah, I don't think that many people in. You know, know

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 people were like, wait what? I remember that fit

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 a specific tutorial. A lot of people were like caught off guard because like wait

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 it closes I am eager for the day that

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 a disclosure law actually gets implemented. Well,

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 I think I think that's the big thing. It's like

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 there's

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 A difference between it passing like we said earlier being

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 a law and then actually how it implicated implemented

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 and how,

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 you know, it actually plays out on the day-to-day of

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 business owners that are, in this space specifically.

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 Yeah, you want to know, just how, how bureaucratic

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 thing is can can can

246
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 play out. Sure. So in 2010, they

247
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 passed a law that could have a cfpb and

248
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 the cfpb was given a mandate to collect data from small.

249
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 Business lenders and analyze it and find out if there's discrimination or

250
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 disparities. And what ever since then that

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 law has still not been

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 implemented. They haven't collected any data. You haven't agreed

253
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 on how it's supposed to be collected. In fact, it languished for

254
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 so long to see if PB actually got sued saying,

255
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 you were supposed to implement this last ten years ago.

256
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 What's going on with? And we're still working on it, right?

257
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 So and we're I was out there railing about it

258
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 and like 2013. We're going to have to, you're going to have to do this and it's going to

259
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 do that.

260
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 Right. Looks like the boy who cried wolf one of

261
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 these days. One of these laws is going to be implemented. I can't wait. Yeah,

262
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 because 10 years 10 years of crying wolf. Yeah, we

263
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 everyone's desperate to see. Can you still

264
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 do business? Yeah. Under these laws. Yeah, we don't even know.

265
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 No one day something will be implemented. Now,

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 that would be very interesting to see and to kind of

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 see how it plays out, how it affects business. Maybe

268
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 who knows we 20 30 years from now.

269
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 Well, that is what some people hope. Some people hope it takes 20-30 years

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 because they're already they're already have retired and sold their company and be done with it.