00:00.000 --> 00:01.590 Sean Murray: deBanked TV. I'm Sean Murray. 00:01.630 --> 00:03.280 Johny Fernandez: And I'm Johny Fernandez. And thank you guys so 00:03.280 --> 00:06.610 much for joining us today. It's gonna be a good day so far great 00:06.610 --> 00:08.560 morning can't complain. How are you doing? Sean? 00:08.590 --> 00:09.100 Sean Murray: Pretty good. 00:09.130 --> 00:10.690 Johny Fernandez: Nice. We definitely have a couple of 00:10.690 --> 00:14.560 interesting conversations to go through today, specifically. And 00:14.560 --> 00:17.170 the first one we're gonna talk about is about interest rates 00:17.380 --> 00:22.120 and rates in general. So I, first of all, Sean, let's talk 00:22.120 --> 00:25.120 about what you've been seeing so far in regards to interest rates 00:25.240 --> 00:26.890 here within the industry. 00:27.220 --> 00:29.320 Sean Murray: Alright so we just talked, we just talked about 00:29.320 --> 00:33.580 inflation had to be this point, two weeks ago, yeah, give or 00:33.580 --> 00:37.360 take, give or take. And low and behold, what happened after that 00:37.360 --> 00:42.130 conversation, is that we saw an actual, we actually saw the Fed 00:42.280 --> 00:46.300 signal that they agree. I mean, they didn't they didn't refer to 00:46.300 --> 00:50.500 us, but then they kind of were on the same wavelength as, as we 00:50.500 --> 00:55.360 were. And one thing that I had mentioned, very forcefully 00:55.390 --> 00:58.450 during our live stream is that if you're out there, right now, 00:58.450 --> 01:00.700 in the lending field, you should probably be jacking up your 01:00.700 --> 01:01.690 rates, right? 01:02.010 --> 01:03.420 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. And I think one thing, when we had 01:03.420 --> 01:06.870 that conversation, you had just simply said, if you're offering 01:06.870 --> 01:08.910 low interest rates, but essentially you're kind of 01:08.910 --> 01:12.030 saying, You're not bumping things up, and kind of keeping 01:12.030 --> 01:13.830 up with the trends, essentially, you're losing. 01:14.020 --> 01:16.955 Sean Murray: Yeah, you don't want to you don't want to lend 01:17.019 --> 01:20.273 below the rate of inflation. Obviously, the federal 01:20.337 --> 01:24.421 government is definitely fearful of what would happen if it lets 01:24.485 --> 01:28.377 inflation to to continue to grow unabated at the rate, or the 01:28.441 --> 01:32.397 pace that it is right now. And so they have signaled that they 01:32.461 --> 01:35.715 intend to raise the interest rates at the very next 01:35.779 --> 01:39.544 opportunity. And I think that that's probably the right, it 01:39.608 --> 01:43.692 makes sense. It's logical. And I think that that's going to lead 01:43.755 --> 01:47.712 other people in the chain, to also make adjustments themselves 01:47.776 --> 01:51.540 to we'll see lenders start to increase rates, that's what I 01:51.604 --> 01:53.200 would think would happen. 01:53.240 --> 01:56.390 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. And then, in regards to what I've seen, 01:56.390 --> 01:59.900 specifically, when it comes to people doing mortgages for their 01:59.900 --> 02:02.510 houses, and the lenders, and how everything's going, you know, 02:02.510 --> 02:05.390 obviously, it was at an all time low, you know, we're looking at 02:05.390 --> 02:08.480 people getting, you know, anywhere from like, up to 2.1%, 02:10.670 --> 02:13.790 you know, and I refinance my house, I was at 5%, I dropped 02:13.790 --> 02:17.120 down 3%. So everyone was saying, Hey, this is all free money 02:17.120 --> 02:20.270 right now, definitely go ahead, dive in dig, you know, it's 02:20.270 --> 02:23.630 pretty much at an all time low. And something that I got word of 02:23.630 --> 02:26.300 from Bank of America, Wells Fargo, as I work directly with 02:26.300 --> 02:30.020 them is that it could, the rates, depending on how the year 02:30.020 --> 02:33.440 goes, it could anywhere from double to triple. And then I was 02:33.440 --> 02:36.110 reading an article from Forbes specifically and they were also 02:36.110 --> 02:39.470 confirming it that, you know, they've also seen that, you 02:39.470 --> 02:42.380 know, in December, we were looking at like rates on an 02:42.380 --> 02:46.460 average of like, 2.6. And then we jump into January, and now 02:46.460 --> 02:50.030 it's at a 3.1. Like, that's like the average. So obviously, we're 02:50.030 --> 02:52.790 looking at it going little by little, you know, we're at the 02:52.790 --> 02:56.150 twos now we're at the threes. Yeah, they were predicting at 02:56.150 --> 03:01.160 this point like it can, they can range anywhere, by like, fall, 03:02.210 --> 03:06.800 end of summer, we're going to fall 3% to 4%. So you know, 03:07.070 --> 03:09.860 you're going from like two to four, and then at the end of the 03:09.860 --> 03:12.080 year, we don't know what it could be. But they are 03:12.080 --> 03:15.350 predicting that, you know, again, inflation and the way 03:15.350 --> 03:18.260 things are working now, we are seeing the numbers go higher. 03:18.260 --> 03:20.870 And something that I've recommended a lot of clients 03:20.870 --> 03:23.870 that I'm working with, and that I've also seen from these 03:23.870 --> 03:26.690 lenders talking directly with them is that if anyone wants to 03:26.690 --> 03:31.280 borrow money to do it now, because the rates are literally 03:31.280 --> 03:35.930 by the day going up little by little. So someone that I worked 03:35.930 --> 03:39.680 with someone directly that they were borrowing money, they were 03:39.680 --> 03:44.120 borrowing at, like 2.5. This is for what a mortgage for 03:44.120 --> 03:47.720 mortgage. Okay, so they're early at 2.5. And then, you know, now, 03:48.020 --> 03:51.260 you know, they had to pretty much do the pre approval again. 03:51.440 --> 03:54.470 And now they're like looking at like a 3% three point. So they 03:54.470 --> 03:55.580 waited, they wait. And 03:55.630 --> 03:57.370 Sean Murray: in between in between the first pre approval 03:57.370 --> 04:00.190 and the second one, the rate went from like two and a half to 04:00.190 --> 04:01.510 close to around three 04:01.600 --> 04:03.880 Johny Fernandez: Yeah so it's just and everyone they're 04:03.880 --> 04:07.330 recommending, if you want to borrow money, do it now. But 04:07.330 --> 04:10.570 things are starting to change. And again, they they've pretty 04:10.570 --> 04:14.200 much told me straight out from December to now like, hey, if 04:14.200 --> 04:16.540 you want to borrow on December borrow in December, because it's 04:16.540 --> 04:19.570 going to change in January. Now we're seeing that. Yeah. So it's 04:19.570 --> 04:23.290 very, it's very interesting to see, you know, they've pretty 04:23.290 --> 04:25.750 much predicted as they're telling people, hey, if you're 04:25.750 --> 04:28.300 going to borrow money bar now because things are gonna go 04:28.300 --> 04:31.510 high. Yeah. And everyone's boosting up, you know, the 04:31.510 --> 04:33.700 interest rates, they're gonna jack up the rate and jack up the 04:33.700 --> 04:36.940 rates massively. Yeah. So I mean, I say massively because 04:37.060 --> 04:39.220 we're looking at it, you know, for mortgages, for example, 04:39.220 --> 04:45.250 you're looking at two, you know, 2.1% and now we're at 3.1%. And, 04:45.730 --> 04:48.340 you know, you know, the article and four is predicting that by 04:48.340 --> 04:53.770 fall, the fall, summer, we're looking at between four 4.5% on 04:53.770 --> 04:58.570 an on average, which, you know, it, you know, it's definitely 04:58.570 --> 04:59.500 going up so 04:59.990 --> 05:01.970 Sean Murray: Yeah, so if you're out there and you work in the in 05:01.970 --> 05:06.950 the lending world, be prepared to potentially have to pay more 05:06.950 --> 05:10.460 for funds that you borrow your competitors may also increase 05:10.460 --> 05:14.630 their own rates. Yeah. So you may see rates go up rather than 05:14.630 --> 05:19.280 down. And one of the things that correlates with this sudden 05:19.370 --> 05:23.090 prediction that rates will increase is that we're seeing a, 05:23.390 --> 05:29.480 I guess, you could say, an expected event in the stock 05:29.480 --> 05:32.930 market. Yeah. That being that the stock market is going down. 05:33.020 --> 05:36.080 If you go on to like CNN or Fox News, like, oh, it's because 05:36.290 --> 05:40.100 there's some international event taking place between like Russia 05:40.100 --> 05:44.270 and Ukraine, and everyone's scared. That's not what it is. 05:44.720 --> 05:48.800 What it is, is that when interest rates go up, the allure 05:48.800 --> 05:52.910 of the stock market goes down. Right? Yeah. Because if interest 05:52.910 --> 05:55.460 rates are zero, let's say you're gonna, you're gonna say you're a 05:55.460 --> 05:58.490 big pension bond, and you have to invest somebody's pensions. 05:58.910 --> 06:01.820 And like, like for, you know, 10s of 1000s, maybe even 06:01.820 --> 06:06.110 millions of workers. If that if a treasury bond is yielding, 06:06.110 --> 06:09.980 essentially 0%, then you're not going to do anything for these 06:09.980 --> 06:13.910 people who are hoping to retire on the money. Right? So what do 06:13.910 --> 06:16.160 you do you put the money in the stock market? Yeah. Because the 06:16.160 --> 06:18.860 alternative is 0%. Yeah, they say I'll take some risks, 06:18.890 --> 06:21.740 because they get some yield, you put it in an index fund, you can 06:21.740 --> 06:26.120 earn, you know, 1.8%, just on the dividends. So that sounds 06:26.120 --> 06:28.070 good to a lot of people even even though there's downside 06:28.070 --> 06:33.380 risk. Now, because interest rates are expected to go up, 06:33.620 --> 06:38.660 right? All of a sudden, you have yield to to earn on bonds, so 06:38.780 --> 06:41.090 that big pension bond that had all this money in the stock 06:41.090 --> 06:43.640 market is going to take the billions out of there and put it 06:43.640 --> 06:46.730 into like a treasury, right. So when you hear like the stock 06:46.730 --> 06:48.830 market is going down, because there's some international event 06:48.830 --> 06:51.620 of the economy is crashing, and something that's not what it is, 06:51.650 --> 06:54.800 it's just that all of a sudden, now you have a variety of 06:54.800 --> 06:57.470 options to invest in the market before it was like you had to 06:57.470 --> 07:00.110 put money in the stock market, because you couldn't, couldn't 07:00.110 --> 07:04.700 earn any money in like bonds or treasuries, or whatever. That 07:04.700 --> 07:08.090 may also be why this is complete speculation why we're seeing a 07:08.090 --> 07:13.430 crypto bloodbath. Yeah. Do you have any friends who invest in 07:13.430 --> 07:13.820 crypto 07:13.870 --> 07:15.970 Johny Fernandez: I do I have a handful of friends that are 07:15.970 --> 07:19.540 investing in crypto, and a lot of them woke up. And they've 07:19.540 --> 07:22.120 tweeted, they're panicking because they're like, hey, like, 07:22.420 --> 07:26.680 this is like, we're hitting a low and a lot of them are 07:26.680 --> 07:29.380 cashing out. They're cashing out cashing out, they're cashing 07:29.380 --> 07:31.420 out. They're like, hey, you know were, 07:31.445 --> 07:32.770 Sean Murray: let me ask you a question. Do you know if 07:32.770 --> 07:36.610 they're, if they're just taking lower profits? Are they selling 07:36.610 --> 07:41.320 at a loss? No, they're selling at a loss. So you know, it's 07:41.320 --> 07:45.040 it's interesting to see just normal human behavior, right? 07:45.070 --> 07:49.750 Yeah. Because, you know, normally you don't buy at the 07:49.750 --> 07:53.800 high and sell at the low. Yeah, you just write it out? Yeah, 07:53.800 --> 07:57.340 that's what you're supposed to do. Yeah, right. But it's not 07:57.340 --> 08:00.640 uncommon. You hear that your friends are not uncommon. Yeah. 08:00.670 --> 08:02.920 Yeah. This is what so many people are doing Yeah. Is 08:02.920 --> 08:05.680 they're saying I'd rather have something than end up with 08:05.680 --> 08:09.610 essentially zero right. So they're probably fearing that 08:09.610 --> 08:12.460 the numbers going down? Yeah, to zero. Yeah. And they'd rather 08:12.460 --> 08:14.650 have something rather than than nothing that basically 08:15.680 --> 08:17.540 Johny Fernandez: Essentially what's going on and I think in 08:17.540 --> 08:19.280 their mind they're freaking out because they're like, oh my god, 08:19.280 --> 08:21.560 like there was just big hype. There was this like, you know, 08:21.590 --> 08:24.230 we're making a ton of money let's do this and now that it's 08:24.470 --> 08:27.740 coming down, it's just like, oh my gosh, let me take it out. Let 08:27.740 --> 08:29.720 me make sure I have something I'm gonna recover some of my 08:29.720 --> 08:33.140 money. I heard you know, different people saying oh my 08:33.140 --> 08:36.020 god, like I put in you know, a couple 1000s I'm coming up I'm 08:36.020 --> 08:39.740 coming I'm leaving with like the six $700 But you know, 08:39.770 --> 08:42.740 something's better than nothing and and there's this whole panic 08:42.980 --> 08:46.190 all over Twitter honestly, not only with my friends but online. 08:46.610 --> 08:49.520 And people are just like, and I've heard two different sides 08:49.520 --> 08:52.280 other people are like willing to stick it out and you know, they 08:52.280 --> 08:54.800 have all this hope that you know, bitcoins gonna be 08:54.800 --> 09:00.470 something that's going to save the economy, yeah 09:00.470 --> 09:01.931 Sean Murray: Yeah. Well, I mean, what you're what you're 09:01.986 --> 09:05.321 describing is extremely common. This is exactly what happened 09:05.376 --> 09:08.384 the last time Bitcoin had Bitcoin had a big run back in 09:08.438 --> 09:11.665 2017. Yeah, everyone bought in it was going up in this huge 09:11.720 --> 09:15.001 hype cycle, then it start to go down, start to go down a bit 09:15.055 --> 09:18.336 more and people start to freak out. And then you have people 09:18.391 --> 09:21.727 selling people selling for a loss and that poisoned the water 09:21.782 --> 09:25.063 for a long, long time where people wanted nothing to do with 09:25.117 --> 09:28.399 crypto people would be mad they would get mad at us. When we 09:28.453 --> 09:31.406 would write about Bitcoin. They're like that's a scam. 09:31.461 --> 09:34.523 Yeah, it's a scam. I can't believe you write about it. A 09:34.578 --> 09:37.859 couple years go by and like Bitcoin is going up. You need to 09:37.914 --> 09:41.250 write more about Bitcoin. That's how we're going to get rich. 09:41.430 --> 09:44.160 Johny Fernandez: But again, it's it's a cycle things that always 09:44.160 --> 09:48.660 happen. It's like something goes up and goes back down. It's a 09:48.660 --> 09:49.290 cycle. 09:49.440 --> 09:52.200 Sean Murray: It's it's, it is a cycle. You know, I don't know 09:52.260 --> 09:57.480 I've said for a very long time that I do not invest in crypto, 09:57.510 --> 09:59.220 Johny Fernandez: but when you tweeted something really 09:59.220 --> 10:01.950 interesting that caught my attention. And I'm gonna 10:01.950 --> 10:04.350 definitely butcher it right now. But you tweeted something that 10:04.470 --> 10:06.990 Bitcoin was made to invest. Because 10:06.990 --> 10:10.260 Sean Murray: No, I said I was not made. Yeah, well, when I 10:10.260 --> 10:13.410 said that Bitcoin is not investment, okay, it's a way to 10:13.410 --> 10:16.560 move money outside of banking. Yeah. In my mind, that's all 10:16.560 --> 10:20.940 it's for, okay. In fact, the founder of Bitcoin, Satoshi 10:20.940 --> 10:24.930 Nakamoto, who no one knows who that is. He described it as a 10:24.930 --> 10:29.190 peer to peer payment system outside of banking. Right? It's 10:29.670 --> 10:32.970 about sending money between two people. We don't need the bank 10:32.970 --> 10:37.650 to do it. Yeah. So naturally, we're deBanked. Right? Here's a 10:37.650 --> 10:40.800 way to move money outside of the banking system makes total sense 10:40.800 --> 10:44.430 to me. Yeah, the whole concept that people like we need to buy, 10:44.460 --> 10:47.460 because it's going to go up, like this totally is totally 10:47.460 --> 10:50.580 lost on me, or we need to buy it because it's the new digital 10:50.580 --> 10:53.700 gold. Maybe there's maybe there's some merit to that, 10:53.700 --> 10:56.310 right. But the whole, like, it's gonna go to a million dollars, 10:56.310 --> 10:58.620 we got to get rich, you got to get in. That's not even what 10:58.620 --> 11:01.590 it's for. It's like, I think it's important for certain 11:01.590 --> 11:06.420 people to kind of understand what Bitcoin is even for, if 11:06.420 --> 11:09.060 someone told you that, it's, you need to get into it, because 11:09.060 --> 11:10.830 it's gonna go up and you're gonna get rich, that's not even 11:10.830 --> 11:11.760 what Bitcoin is for. 11:12.140 --> 11:14.330 Johny Fernandez: I'll pause that because I know for a fact that 11:14.330 --> 11:16.850 especially during this last cycle, because that's what I'm 11:16.850 --> 11:20.090 gonna call it a cycle. A lot of people got into just for that 11:20.090 --> 11:22.310 reason, because they saw that their friends were doing it they 11:22.310 --> 11:25.010 saw that their friends were doing it and they put, I know a 11:25.010 --> 11:27.530 lot of guys that have put literally like they're like I'm 11:27.530 --> 11:30.320 gonna cash out of my 401k and put it into Bitcoin. 11:31.080 --> 11:33.720 Sean Murray: This happened in 2017. Now, literally, it was 11:33.720 --> 11:37.050 literally like watching it was deja vu for me. Yeah, to watch 11:37.050 --> 11:41.160 the same thing play out. All over again, people are selling 11:41.190 --> 11:45.780 just like they did in 2018. After the 2017 bull market. 11:45.870 --> 11:50.280 Bitcoin is not even an investment and my from, from my 11:50.310 --> 11:52.890 perspective, it's really just about moving money outside of 11:52.890 --> 11:56.730 banking. There there, there is utility to other forms of 11:56.730 --> 12:00.660 crypto, like, Ethereum has the whole smart contract, smart 12:00.660 --> 12:04.920 contract concept to it, right? I think that's really cool. Yeah. 12:04.950 --> 12:08.310 And it's different than Bitcoin, Bitcoin and Aetherium some of 12:08.310 --> 12:11.310 the other Kryptos there's different purposes to each of 12:11.310 --> 12:15.090 that. But bitcoin is very limited. The beautiful part 12:15.090 --> 12:18.060 about Bitcoin, it's just about I can send money to you. And 12:18.060 --> 12:20.820 there's nobody out there that says, hey, you can't send it to 12:20.820 --> 12:24.600 him. Yeah, this happens. And you might not appreciate that, if 12:24.600 --> 12:27.570 you've never had to deal with it. Yeah. If you work in a 12:27.570 --> 12:30.540 business and you want to send money internationally, guess 12:30.540 --> 12:34.560 what? Someone can say no, yeah. You have to worry about whether 12:34.560 --> 12:36.750 or not the bank on the other side is going to accept it and 12:36.750 --> 12:38.940 say, Well, what country did it come from? Why are you sending 12:38.940 --> 12:41.160 this money? Yeah, how do you know this person? Yeah, they 12:41.160 --> 12:44.070 want to know all these things. Yeah. They also they have their 12:44.070 --> 12:46.710 hand in the pot, and they want to charge you for it too. They 12:46.710 --> 12:47.550 want to take their feet, 12:47.580 --> 12:50.520 Johny Fernandez: They take the charge that nice. That's that 12:50.520 --> 12:50.910 fear. 12:50.930 --> 12:53.690 Sean Murray: So once you start to appreciate it becomes 12:53.690 --> 12:57.650 difficult to send money within the banking system, once you 12:57.650 --> 13:00.020 reach a certain size or do certain type of transactions, 13:00.020 --> 13:03.590 you're like, I really wish I just had control and I could do 13:03.590 --> 13:06.320 whatever I wanted. Yeah, that's what Bitcoin is for. Yeah, 13:06.350 --> 13:08.420 that's what Bitcoin is for. If you're like, hey, I bought 13:08.420 --> 13:11.390 Bitcoin, because it's going up, and I'm gonna get rich. I think 13:11.390 --> 13:14.150 you were you were fed some false information. That's my personal 13:14.150 --> 13:14.780 point of view. 13:15.060 --> 13:17.610 Johny Fernandez: It Yeah. I mean, it's, it's interesting how 13:17.610 --> 13:20.220 everything again, everything's a big cycle, you know, like 13:20.220 --> 13:22.410 interest rates are going back up, things are gonna hopefully 13:22.410 --> 13:26.460 level out and kind of go correct itself. Bitcoins going back 13:26.460 --> 13:31.860 down. It's I don't know, I want to word it and say it's crashing 13:31.860 --> 13:34.350 and burning. Like it's gonna go. That's it. But again, it's all a 13:34.350 --> 13:37.410 cycle. Yeah. That that, you know, it's gonna cycle through 13:37.410 --> 13:39.330 and then in a couple years, we're gonna see the same thing 13:39.330 --> 13:42.600 happen again, and potentially, yeah, you know, like things are 13:42.600 --> 13:45.600 going back up, like, let's let's buy into Bitcoin. Yeah, 13:45.630 --> 13:47.280 Sean Murray: Well, you know, we're only talking about this 13:47.280 --> 13:48.600 because they're just talking about interest rates in the 13:48.600 --> 13:52.260 stock market. But is it any coincidence that the stock 13:52.260 --> 13:55.710 market is going down at the same time crypto is going down? 13:56.340 --> 13:59.160 Perhaps it's not a coincidence, perhaps it's due to the fact 13:59.160 --> 14:03.510 that some people were borrowing money very cheaply at near zero 14:03.600 --> 14:07.590 and using it to put money into crypto. Because it hey, it's 14:07.590 --> 14:10.050 gonna go up, you know, I mean, crypto is gonna go up. So I 14:10.050 --> 14:12.420 borrow money and put it into crypto, all of a sudden, now, 14:12.600 --> 14:15.660 lenders are starting to tighten up a little bit, you know, 14:15.660 --> 14:18.870 interest rates are gonna go up a little bit like, Well, maybe 14:18.870 --> 14:21.840 it's not a smart thing to borrow money to put it into crypto 14:21.840 --> 14:24.990 anymore. So I'm just gonna kind of, you know, kind of cool off 14:24.990 --> 14:27.810 on that. That could be one of the causes of why crypto is 14:27.810 --> 14:30.480 coming out. At the same time. The fact that interest rates the 14:31.290 --> 14:33.480 you have opportunity cost in the market when you where you're 14:33.480 --> 14:35.790 going to invest and where you can park your money. You know, 14:35.850 --> 14:38.700 is it bonds is it the stock market is it crypto crypto is 14:38.700 --> 14:41.340 kind of this new thing, and bonds and like let's say 14:41.340 --> 14:44.190 treasury bonds are out because you earn 0%. So you're like oh 14:44.190 --> 14:47.820 stock market and crypto, you plop it into both of them. Now 14:47.820 --> 14:50.670 you're like, you know what, now I can put it into into bonds and 14:50.670 --> 14:52.920 treasury, you know, treasuries all over again. I'm going to 14:52.920 --> 14:55.290 take my all my billions out of there, what happens these two 14:55.290 --> 14:58.290 things crash, and then everyone starts to panic. What's going on 14:58.320 --> 14:58.590 is 14:59.020 --> 15:02.410 Johny Fernandez: So so let me ask you this for someone that is 15:02.440 --> 15:05.470 watching right now and they have their money invested, you know 15:05.470 --> 15:08.740 whether it's in crypto or they're trying to borrow borrow 15:08.740 --> 15:10.750 money, and they see that interest, interest rates are 15:10.750 --> 15:14.080 going up and they have money in the stock market and the stocks 15:14.110 --> 15:17.560 are going back, they're going down. What would you say? Should 15:17.560 --> 15:20.980 they panic? Should they just be like, Oh my gosh, like, let me 15:21.010 --> 15:24.370 take my money out and let me not like do anything. Like, what 15:24.370 --> 15:26.770 would you say to them? Cuz a lot of people are panicking. That's 15:26.770 --> 15:29.170 just the truth. A lot of people are like, I'm gonna cash out. 15:29.230 --> 15:32.530 Gotta cash out, like, cause this panic mode that's going on 15:32.650 --> 15:35.080 today? Yeah, yeah. What would you say to them? 15:36.390 --> 15:40.050 Sean Murray: I'd say you need to think through what your 15:40.050 --> 15:43.950 investment strategy is ahead of time. So that you don't end up 15:43.950 --> 15:46.500 in this type of situation. And now nobody wants to hear this 15:46.530 --> 15:51.060 after the fact. Yeah. So my own personal investment strategy is 15:51.060 --> 15:53.760 that I am in index funds long term. 15:54.060 --> 15:57.000 Johny Fernandez: Okay. So you're looking at you look at long term 15:57.000 --> 16:00.510 picture, big picture in a couple years from now. 16:00.840 --> 16:04.080 Sean Murray: Twenty, thirty years. Okay. All right. I invest 16:04.080 --> 16:06.930 time like, you know, ten, twnety, thirty, year basis. 16:06.990 --> 16:08.550 Okay. I don't care about a couple years. So 16:08.579 --> 16:10.559 Johny Fernandez: you don't care about the five year plan, like 16:10.559 --> 16:12.689 two year plan? That's not even your mindset? 16:12.870 --> 16:14.790 Sean Murray: No, it's not. It's not even my mindset. I'm not 16:14.790 --> 16:17.340 investing money that I you know, I'm going to need six months 16:17.340 --> 16:21.060 from now. Okay, that that money for me isn't isn't invested in 16:21.060 --> 16:24.390 like something like crypto, whatever. Anything that would be 16:24.540 --> 16:27.960 I don't invest in crypto. Okay. So if you invested in crypto, 16:28.200 --> 16:30.060 and you're saying, you know, Sean what should I do? I would 16:30.060 --> 16:35.520 say don't invest in in coins and tokens. It's, it's a terrible 16:35.520 --> 16:40.440 investment. Okay. And so it this was said at Broker Fair by Slava 16:40.440 --> 16:42.600 Rubin, he's like, You should like you should invest in the 16:42.600 --> 16:44.850 concept. And everyone immediately goes to what coin 16:44.850 --> 16:47.790 should I buy? And he's like, he's not what he was saying not 16:47.790 --> 16:52.320 about buying the coin. It's about creating a company that 16:52.380 --> 16:54.420 does something with the infrastructure. Yeah, it's about 16:54.420 --> 16:59.040 getting into payments. So many people don't want to do any of 16:59.040 --> 17:02.070 the work. They just want to sit at home, press some buttons on 17:02.070 --> 17:06.420 their phone, and hope that it goes up. Right. But the way to 17:06.420 --> 17:11.340 make money in crypto is to build a crypto company. That's the 17:11.340 --> 17:14.520 truth. So that's what you should be thinking about next time 17:14.520 --> 17:17.190 around, not, oh, I should have bought different coins, or I 17:17.190 --> 17:20.070 should have sold at the top. And this doesn't make sense. You 17:20.070 --> 17:22.950 know, I was lied to about crypto. Yeah, you were lied to 17:22.950 --> 17:26.400 about crypto from the standpoint of he thought crypto, which is 17:26.400 --> 17:29.460 something it was just like some sort of investment where if you 17:29.460 --> 17:32.460 just buy a coin, and you told your friends to also buy the 17:32.460 --> 17:36.210 coin, then it will go up and you'll be rich. Like that's not. 17:36.690 --> 17:39.840 That's not real investing. Yeah, that's not real. That's not 17:39.840 --> 17:43.200 investing. I don't really know what that is. It's like, you got 17:43.200 --> 17:46.350 it. You got to think bigger picture. If crypto is you know, 17:46.350 --> 17:49.230 one of your strategies. I would never buy a coin says let's hope 17:49.230 --> 17:52.350 it goes up. Me personally. Yeah. And I'm very much into crypto. 17:52.380 --> 17:56.070 Yeah, but the whole concept, I'm gonna buy a coin and then hope 17:56.070 --> 18:01.020 other people buy the same coin. Yeah. It's just and what is it 18:01.020 --> 18:03.750 backed by nothing. So you an indexed bond is backed by the 18:03.750 --> 18:06.420 companies who are producing value for the entire economy. 18:06.780 --> 18:10.530 Right. All the things that exist in the physical, tangible world? 18:10.650 --> 18:14.220 That's what behind the stocks? But if it's just a coin, there's 18:14.220 --> 18:18.150 nothing behind it. Yeah, then there's nothing to it. Right? It 18:18.150 --> 18:21.450 can go to zero, because what's behind it? Nothing. Yeah. But if 18:21.450 --> 18:23.850 you can the entire stock market go to zero? Well, I guess the 18:23.850 --> 18:27.150 whole country, all in all physical made goods would have 18:27.150 --> 18:31.800 to go to zero too. Yeah, that's true. Stocks have like, you 18:31.800 --> 18:34.290 know, they have like a book value. You have like the market 18:34.290 --> 18:36.090 value, and the book value and like, they can come down to the 18:36.090 --> 18:38.970 book value, you say, it goes below book value, like, Wow, is 18:38.970 --> 18:41.130 it an attractive investment? Yeah. Because it's below the 18:41.130 --> 18:41.460 book. 18:41.510 --> 18:43.820 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. Well, and I just think for me, personally, 18:43.850 --> 18:48.320 I do not invest in crypto, because it's still fairly in its 18:48.320 --> 18:51.500 infancy stages. Because for stocks, for example, for real 18:51.500 --> 18:56.900 estate, there's proof that like it can surpass, you know, real 18:56.900 --> 18:58.940 estate is a real thing. Yeah. Well, and that's the other 18:58.940 --> 19:00.830 thing, like you can you can touch it, you can feel it, you 19:00.830 --> 19:04.790 can see it grow, you can grow stuff on it. Yeah. And that's, 19:04.820 --> 19:08.060 that's, I've always been like, kind of just like, wait and see, 19:08.120 --> 19:11.090 because crypto still technically, in its infancy 19:11.090 --> 19:14.150 stages, it's not something that's been able to surpass like 19:14.210 --> 19:18.590 fifty a hundred years of, you know, stuff that has gone on in 19:18.590 --> 19:22.820 the world. You know, it's still theres, I still want to see more 19:22.820 --> 19:26.870 proof of what will happen, you know, after this cycle, like 19:26.870 --> 19:29.330 what like what's going to happen what's, what's the pattern of 19:29.330 --> 19:33.110 events that like how it functions. So that's what I want 19:33.110 --> 19:35.690 to see. That's why I've always kind of been very, I like to 19:35.930 --> 19:39.170 observe from afar first before jumping in. Yeah, that's, that's 19:39.170 --> 19:40.280 always been my mindset on it. 19:40.720 --> 19:42.730 Sean Murray: That makes sense. And if you're someone out there 19:42.730 --> 19:47.200 who who believes they would benefit from the value of being 19:47.200 --> 19:49.330 able to move money outside of banking, then itcoin is 19:49.330 --> 19:51.550 certainly for you. Maybe not as an investment but it's something 19:51.550 --> 19:55.450 that you would want to use. Yeah. But if you're just piling 19:55.450 --> 19:57.370 in it because other people are piling in it, 19:57.610 --> 19:59.680 Johny Fernandez: and that that was a lot that was a big trend. 20:00.220 --> 20:03.190 That was a huge like, I say it because I've had a lot of people 20:03.190 --> 20:06.280 approach me like, hey, gotta get into Bitcoin and they approached 20:06.280 --> 20:09.550 me and they're like, sold on it 100% and the 20:09.550 --> 20:12.100 Sean Murray: individual out there in that type of in that 20:12.100 --> 20:15.760 type of investment. They're designed to be the ones that get 20:15.760 --> 20:18.700 screwed. Yeah. By Design. 20:18.760 --> 20:19.570 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, right. 20:20.560 --> 20:24.040 Sean Murray: That's how that's how it works. So, I would say, 20:24.610 --> 20:27.940 you know, you know, what should people do? I don't know. I don't 20:27.940 --> 20:30.250 know. Be smarter about your investments next time. 20:30.490 --> 20:31.510 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, that's good advice. 20:32.620 --> 20:34.810 Sean Murray: It's mean, but yeah, no, but I've been saying, 20:34.810 --> 20:38.290 you know, watch this whole bull run. Bitcoin happened and the 20:38.290 --> 20:40.570 entire time I've been saying Bitcoin is not an investment. 20:42.340 --> 20:44.590 Johny Fernandez: You said from the beginning too I mean, we've 20:44.590 --> 20:44.980 talked about. 20:46.000 --> 20:47.800 Sean Murray: I don't. Yeah, here I am. I've been talking about 20:47.800 --> 20:49.840 Bitcoin for eight years. I don't invest in Bitcoin. Why? You have 20:49.840 --> 20:52.240 to ask yourself, why? How can that be Sean Murray? How can 20:52.240 --> 20:55.390 that be? Yeah, some people tell me I screwed I don't get it. No, 20:55.390 --> 20:57.940 I get it. I know exactly what Bitcoin is for. I love it for 20:57.940 --> 20:58.960 what it's used for. 20:59.010 --> 21:01.950 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. Although people doubt, like, 21:03.250 --> 21:04.750 Sean Murray: hey, you know, who knows, maybe I'll be proven 21:04.750 --> 21:06.640 wrong. Bitcoin will go to a million everyone will laugh at 21:06.640 --> 21:09.880 me. That could happen too that's all. It's also a possibility. I 21:09.880 --> 21:10.630 have to admit that. 21:11.080 --> 21:12.190 Johny Fernandez: And it goes to a million. 21:12.850 --> 21:16.630 Sean Murray: I won't even care. Yeah. Because I was never 21:16.630 --> 21:19.240 investing in it. Yeah. I can't be mad about something I never 21:19.240 --> 21:20.200 considered in investing in 21:20.230 --> 21:23.290 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, that's true. You can so Amen. Good, 21:23.320 --> 21:24.220 good conversation, 21:24.220 --> 21:27.450 Sean Murray: In regards interest rates. Interest rate interest. 21:28.020 --> 21:30.780 Yeah, I did see one last point about interest rates. I know, 21:30.780 --> 21:32.670 we've been talking for, like forever long about this whole 21:32.670 --> 21:36.960 thing that I saw on Bloomberg, that economists predict that 21:36.990 --> 21:39.990 interest rates, I guess that the Fed funds rate will could creep 21:39.990 --> 21:43.950 up to as high as like 2%, they enter 2024. And so interest 21:43.950 --> 21:46.530 rates for everyone else up the chain, you know, we could be 21:46.530 --> 21:50.370 seeing interest rates higher higher than, you know, six seven 21:50.370 --> 21:53.670 eight. He was saying more percent by the end of the year, 21:53.670 --> 21:56.370 maybe in a few years, you know, maybe eight 9% interest rates. 21:56.370 --> 21:58.100 Johny Fernandez: I mean, and like I said, I mean, they said, 21:58.100 --> 22:02.030 4%, I've had other, you know, lenders from banks, told me that 22:02.060 --> 22:05.840 their predictions were you know, up to like, triple like, you 22:05.840 --> 22:09.530 know, 2%, so meaning it'll be up to six. So, you know, obviously, 22:10.310 --> 22:12.230 no one knows what's going to happen, no one has a crystal 22:12.230 --> 22:15.410 ball, but we do know that things are increasing a lot higher, 22:15.410 --> 22:20.660 and, you know, take advantage of that 2% or 2.1%, you know, 2.5% 22:21.110 --> 22:24.590 on the average, then, you know, just take advantage now before 22:24.590 --> 22:27.890 it goes up. So, and then also for the people that are doing 22:27.890 --> 22:30.530 the lending, they should also kind of keep up to date 22:30.920 --> 22:34.280 regarding our last video, because I think that was 22:34.280 --> 22:39.350 important too lenders that just don't move and they stay like 22:39.350 --> 22:41.450 within that area of like low interest rates. 22:41.660 --> 22:44.120 Sean Murray: Yeah, you gotta gotta land above inflation, even 22:44.120 --> 22:46.550 the government's trying to wake up to that, hey, we got to raise 22:46.550 --> 22:47.330 interest rates. 22:47.450 --> 22:50.240 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. So the next type of conversation we're 22:50.240 --> 22:55.760 gonna discuss is regarding IT Media Solutions, or Media 22:55.760 --> 22:59.570 Solutions, LLC. IT Media Solutions, I don't know. Yeah. 22:59.840 --> 23:04.400 So this was a new. This was something that came out 23:04.820 --> 23:08.990 regarding the FTC and them that they essentially collected very 23:08.990 --> 23:12.770 sensitive information for for millions of consumers. And 23:12.770 --> 23:16.700 essentially, they connected them with lenders and pretty much 23:16.700 --> 23:20.090 gave their information out to other companies without their 23:20.090 --> 23:23.120 permission, very sensitive information, things like their 23:23.120 --> 23:26.930 social bank information, all that stuff. And it pretty much 23:26.930 --> 23:33.080 resulted in a FTC lawsuit. So the allegations go that since 23:33.080 --> 23:37.730 2012, a number of the IT media's affiliate companies and their 23:37.730 --> 23:40.880 owners have operated hundreds of websites that were designed to 23:40.880 --> 23:45.170 entice consumers and sharing sensitive financial information. 23:46.610 --> 23:52.610 So it's from what we had, I had read from the article, they 23:52.610 --> 23:55.010 trade millions of people into giving their information and 23:55.010 --> 23:58.070 selling it to companies that were not making loans. So 23:58.070 --> 24:00.800 obviously, you know, these guys thought that they were kind of 24:01.400 --> 24:06.440 dive in and go into getting loans and whatnot. And they did 24:06.440 --> 24:10.460 that. So they can get their information to the right people. 24:11.800 --> 24:15.880 Sean Murray: Okay, so here's the takeaway from all that. If you 24:15.880 --> 24:19.180 are someone who participates in lead generation, and you own a 24:19.180 --> 24:21.850 bunch of different websites, and you say, hey, we're going to 24:21.850 --> 24:25.330 connect, connect you with a lender, based upon the 24:25.330 --> 24:29.410 information you put in, and something else happens along the 24:29.410 --> 24:34.120 way, you could potentially be violating federal law. So this 24:34.120 --> 24:37.150 particular company that Johnny mentioned, they owned a bunch of 24:37.150 --> 24:39.880 different websites. They were lead generation sites, you might 24:39.880 --> 24:43.150 even think, oh, that sounds like somebody that I might even know 24:43.180 --> 24:46.720 they owned cashadvance.com They owned, I think it was 24:48.130 --> 24:53.590 badcreditloans.com. Right. They own generic sites, that a 24:53.590 --> 24:58.420 consumer or potential borrower would find online, and they 24:58.420 --> 25:01.540 would apply for a loan on with the understanding that these 25:01.540 --> 25:05.320 particular sites, were going to connect them with a lender, that 25:05.320 --> 25:08.170 it was a loan marketplace, I bring this up, because this is a 25:08.170 --> 25:11.920 very common business model J, you go up, you go on a website, 25:12.400 --> 25:13.990 it says something about, we're going to connect you with a 25:13.990 --> 25:17.020 lender were a loan marketplace, you put in your information, 25:17.020 --> 25:20.440 they try to connect you. And everything sounds very normal up 25:20.440 --> 25:24.220 until this point, yeah, except the FTC says, what happens next 25:24.250 --> 25:28.000 is where you break the law, that if you then sell that 25:28.000 --> 25:32.710 information, to let's say, like a credit repair company, or a 25:32.710 --> 25:37.210 debt relief company, or you sell the credit score of that 25:37.210 --> 25:40.300 applicant to somebody, hey, you done things you weren't supposed 25:40.300 --> 25:41.980 to, you said you were gonna connect them with the lender. 25:42.310 --> 25:44.890 Instead, you took their data, and you sold it, debt relief 25:44.890 --> 25:47.740 company, credit repair company, you know, all these other data 25:47.740 --> 25:50.140 companies. And if you're the person who owned the website, 25:50.140 --> 25:52.600 you might be, you might be thinking, Well, hey, I'm just 25:52.600 --> 25:56.380 monetizing this lead as much as I can, right? Yeah, they, they 25:56.380 --> 26:00.010 qualify or don't qualify for a loan. But hey, they probably 26:00.010 --> 26:03.700 would benefit from all of these other products. FTC says you 26:03.700 --> 26:06.250 can't do that. He said, You're going to offer them a loan, 26:06.250 --> 26:08.260 you're gonna connect them with a lender, and you and you did 26:08.260 --> 26:11.290 things that were outside of that scope, you broke the law, this 26:11.290 --> 26:16.900 company got fined $1.5 million for taking leads, people were 26:16.900 --> 26:20.770 applying for loans. And with the belief that it was gonna be they 26:20.770 --> 26:23.290 were going to be connected with a lender in a marketplace. And 26:23.290 --> 26:26.590 because other things happened, the company running the the 26:26.590 --> 26:29.710 websites they got in trouble. Yeah, this should be this should 26:29.710 --> 26:33.040 be a wake up call for anyone who relies on websites, very, you 26:33.040 --> 26:35.770 know, multiple websites, or even just one website, where you say, 26:35.770 --> 26:38.530 you're gonna connect a potential borrower, with a network of 26:38.530 --> 26:38.980 lenders. 26:39.050 --> 26:41.570 Johny Fernandez: So and according to like, the the the 26:41.570 --> 26:45.230 report that was online, they said that 84% of the loan 26:45.230 --> 26:49.400 applications, never made it to the lender, their information is 26:49.400 --> 26:54.020 given to, you know, all these companies 84% that's 26:54.020 --> 26:56.397 Sean Murray: Well, so here's the thing, right? So I'm looking at 26:56.455 --> 26:59.508 it from the, from the perspective of the company that 26:59.566 --> 27:03.080 may be operated the site, they have lead generation sites for 27:03.137 --> 27:06.709 loans. People throw out their information, yep, it becomes 80, 27:06.766 --> 27:10.223 let's say 84% of them qualify for nothing. Right? So what do 27:10.280 --> 27:13.564 you do? Throw them in the garbage? Well, like, they don't 27:13.621 --> 27:17.250 qualify for loans. So I'm going to sell it to this person could 27:17.308 --> 27:20.822 really benefit from debt relief, the real problem is not that 27:20.879 --> 27:24.451 they need more money. Yeah, the real problem is that they need 27:24.509 --> 27:27.850 to talk to some sort of debt settlement company, where the 27:27.907 --> 27:31.248 real problem is that their credit is too low. So I'm going 27:31.306 --> 27:34.877 to sell it to a credit repair company. So let's say 84% of the 27:34.935 --> 27:38.564 people inquire, are eligible for one of the loans that you have 27:38.622 --> 27:42.136 available at the lenders you work with in your network? Yeah, 27:42.193 --> 27:45.650 so you sell it to other people. Yeah, where this customer in 27:45.707 --> 27:48.991 your mind, you think would benefit? FTC says you can't do 27:49.048 --> 27:52.447 that. That's illegal. That violates the law. That should be 27:52.505 --> 27:55.961 a wake up call. For anyone who has a lending website and you 27:56.019 --> 27:59.417 say, well, this person applied for a loan. And because they 27:59.475 --> 28:02.816 right off the bat did not qualify for one, I then sold her 28:02.874 --> 28:06.503 information to a credit repair company, or debt relief company. 28:06.560 --> 28:10.074 If they weren't explicitly told that that's what you would do 28:10.132 --> 28:13.761 with your information, you could be violating the law. Now, I'm 28:13.818 --> 28:17.505 not a lawyer. Right? So I'm just reading the press release. That 28:17.563 --> 28:21.192 was that was that came out from the FTC. But if you are in this 28:21.250 --> 28:24.475 small business, finance industry, or any type of lending 28:24.533 --> 28:28.220 industry doesn't matter what it is, and you encounter people who 28:28.277 --> 28:31.791 do not qualify for financing and you say, Well, I still gotta 28:31.849 --> 28:35.248 monetize it, I'm going to sell it, this data to somebody be 28:35.248 --> 29:15.510 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. And it's, I think it's interesting because 29:15.510 --> 28:38.704 very, very careful, because the FTC is saying, you can't do 28:38.761 --> 28:42.218 that. So pay attention to that. This literally came out. You 28:42.275 --> 28:45.789 know, Johnny said, we're not sure if it's pronounced IT media 28:45.847 --> 28:49.534 or it media, we're not sure. But this came out on January 7, and 28:49.591 --> 28:52.759 it said, they now face restrictions on their operation. 28:52.817 --> 28:56.389 So not only they're a fine, but now they're all they also have 28:56.446 --> 28:59.499 to make all these all these changes. And this type of 28:59.557 --> 29:03.013 business model sounds just very, very familiar. Yeah, make a 29:03.071 --> 29:06.412 bunch of websites, acquire leads. And for people who don't 29:06.469 --> 29:09.811 qualify, perhaps you try to monetize those leads some some 29:09.868 --> 29:12.000 other way. FTC says you can't do that 29:15.510 --> 29:18.510 I, when you look at the people that we work with directly here 29:18.510 --> 29:22.860 in this space, a lot of people don't know the rules. They don't 29:22.860 --> 29:26.310 look at on a lot of them that I've noticed they don't do their 29:26.310 --> 29:29.520 full due diligence, so do some of it. And if they have a 29:29.520 --> 29:31.200 situation like this, where they're giving out the 29:31.200 --> 29:34.200 information, you don't know you're doing, you're doing it 29:34.200 --> 29:36.570 and then you get hit with this. And like you said, I think 29:36.570 --> 29:38.970 what's really sad is when you end up, you know, not only 29:38.970 --> 29:41.730 getting fined, but then also you can't work in the space or you 29:41.730 --> 29:45.060 can't do anything similar and you kind of end up getting your 29:45.060 --> 29:48.690 hands tied and you're like alright, well, I just I lost 29:48.720 --> 29:51.420 pretty much everything from not knowing you're not doing the due 29:51.420 --> 29:54.180 diligence, of understanding what I'm getting myself into. 29:54.510 --> 29:58.080 Sean Murray: Yeah, hey, I mean, I think this type of situation 29:58.080 --> 30:01.680 is even surprising to me. That if someone comes on your website 30:01.680 --> 30:03.060 and you say we're going to connect you with a bunch of 30:03.060 --> 30:06.090 different lenders, and upon the information they fill out, you 30:06.090 --> 30:08.730 find out that they don't qualify for anything. And you say, well, 30:08.730 --> 30:11.370 I'll just sell their information to, you know, credit credit 30:11.370 --> 30:15.480 repair. Yeah. That that's potentially against the law. To 30:15.480 --> 30:19.890 do. Yeah, no, it's, it's, I'm not lecturing. No, I'm just I'm 30:19.890 --> 30:22.620 just telling you, this is what you should know about. Yeah, 30:22.650 --> 30:26.370 because this is almost even. So you know, somewhat news to me. 30:26.940 --> 30:29.460 You know, a company did get in trouble for doing it. And they 30:29.460 --> 30:32.460 own websites that sound like ones we probably have visited 30:32.460 --> 30:36.330 before, like badcreditloans.com cashadvance.com, this was all 30:36.330 --> 30:39.510 consumer loans. But I think it still applies regardless. 30:39.540 --> 30:43.200 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, no, it definitely does. So always good 30:43.200 --> 30:46.440 to keep everyone up to date regarding situation, like things 30:46.440 --> 30:49.350 like that, because it'll, definitely help benefit them and 30:49.350 --> 30:55.170 understanding that you can get in big trouble, essentially. So 30:55.200 --> 30:58.920 for more stories, obviously, and any other videos that we have 30:58.920 --> 31:03.360 online, you can check us out on deBanked.com or check us out on 31:03.360 --> 31:05.880 our social media platforms on Twitter, LinkedIn, and 31:05.880 --> 31:09.660 Instagram, obviously, those will always lead you back into 31:09.960 --> 31:13.290 deBanked.com. Or you can also check out Daily Funder. That's 31:13.290 --> 31:16.080 definitely a great website to interact with different people 31:16.230 --> 31:20.190 and, and get, you know, kind of get an idea of what's going on 31:20.220 --> 31:23.670 in the industry. And stories like this would definitely also 31:23.670 --> 31:27.450 pop up on there too. So definitely two good resources. 31:27.870 --> 31:30.570 If you're new, if you've been doing it for a while, and also 31:30.570 --> 31:33.210 if you know you want to help other people out and give 31:33.330 --> 31:36.270 information to other people, definitely check those out. So 31:36.360 --> 31:39.930 yeah. So So that does it for us today. Again, I'm Johnny 31:39.930 --> 31:40.560 Fernandez. 31:41.470 --> 31:43.450 Sean Murray: I'm Sean Murray. And we'll see you guys next time