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Sean Murray: deBanked TV. I'm
Sean Murray.

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Johny Fernandez: And I'm Johny
Fernandez. And thank you guys so

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much for joining us today. It's
gonna be a good day so far great

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morning can't complain. How are
you doing? Sean?

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Sean Murray: Pretty good.

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Johny Fernandez: Nice. We
definitely have a couple of

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interesting conversations to go
through today, specifically. And

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the first one we're gonna talk
about is about interest rates

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and rates in general. So I,
first of all, Sean, let's talk

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about what you've been seeing so
far in regards to interest rates

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here within the industry.

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Sean Murray: Alright so we just
talked, we just talked about

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inflation had to be this point,
two weeks ago, yeah, give or

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take, give or take. And low and
behold, what happened after that

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conversation, is that we saw an
actual, we actually saw the Fed

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signal that they agree. I mean,
they didn't they didn't refer to

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us, but then they kind of were
on the same wavelength as, as we

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were. And one thing that I had
mentioned, very forcefully

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during our live stream is that
if you're out there, right now,

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in the lending field, you should
probably be jacking up your

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rates, right?

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Johny Fernandez: Yeah. And I
think one thing, when we had

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that conversation, you had just
simply said, if you're offering

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low interest rates, but
essentially you're kind of

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saying, You're not bumping
things up, and kind of keeping

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up with the trends, essentially,
you're losing.

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Sean Murray: Yeah, you don't
want to you don't want to lend

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below the rate of inflation.
Obviously, the federal

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government is definitely fearful
of what would happen if it lets

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inflation to to continue to grow
unabated at the rate, or the

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pace that it is right now. And
so they have signaled that they

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intend to raise the interest
rates at the very next

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opportunity. And I think that
that's probably the right, it

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makes sense. It's logical. And I
think that that's going to lead

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other people in the chain, to
also make adjustments themselves

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to we'll see lenders start to
increase rates, that's what I

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would think would happen.

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Johny Fernandez: Yeah. And then,
in regards to what I've seen,

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specifically, when it comes to
people doing mortgages for their

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houses, and the lenders, and how
everything's going, you know,

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obviously, it was at an all time
low, you know, we're looking at

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people getting, you know,
anywhere from like, up to 2.1%,

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you know, and I refinance my
house, I was at 5%, I dropped

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down 3%. So everyone was saying,
Hey, this is all free money

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right now, definitely go ahead,
dive in dig, you know, it's

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pretty much at an all time low.
And something that I got word of

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from Bank of America, Wells
Fargo, as I work directly with

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them is that it could, the
rates, depending on how the year

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goes, it could anywhere from
double to triple. And then I was

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reading an article from Forbes
specifically and they were also

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confirming it that, you know,
they've also seen that, you

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know, in December, we were
looking at like rates on an

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average of like, 2.6. And then
we jump into January, and now

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it's at a 3.1. Like, that's like
the average. So obviously, we're

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looking at it going little by
little, you know, we're at the

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twos now we're at the threes.
Yeah, they were predicting at

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this point like it can, they can
range anywhere, by like, fall,

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end of summer, we're going to
fall 3% to 4%. So you know,

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you're going from like two to
four, and then at the end of the

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year, we don't know what it
could be. But they are

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predicting that, you know,
again, inflation and the way

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things are working now, we are
seeing the numbers go higher.

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And something that I've
recommended a lot of clients

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that I'm working with, and that
I've also seen from these

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lenders talking directly with
them is that if anyone wants to

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borrow money to do it now,
because the rates are literally

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by the day going up little by
little. So someone that I worked

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with someone directly that they
were borrowing money, they were

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borrowing at, like 2.5. This is
for what a mortgage for

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mortgage. Okay, so they're early
at 2.5. And then, you know, now,

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you know, they had to pretty
much do the pre approval again.

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And now they're like looking at
like a 3% three point. So they

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waited, they wait. And

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Sean Murray: in between in
between the first pre approval

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and the second one, the rate
went from like two and a half to

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close to around three

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Johny Fernandez: Yeah so it's
just and everyone they're

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recommending, if you want to
borrow money, do it now. But

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things are starting to change.
And again, they they've pretty

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much told me straight out from
December to now like, hey, if

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you want to borrow on December
borrow in December, because it's

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going to change in January. Now
we're seeing that. Yeah. So it's

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very, it's very interesting to
see, you know, they've pretty

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much predicted as they're
telling people, hey, if you're

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going to borrow money bar now
because things are gonna go

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high. Yeah. And everyone's
boosting up, you know, the

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interest rates, they're gonna
jack up the rate and jack up the

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rates massively. Yeah. So I
mean, I say massively because

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we're looking at it, you know,
for mortgages, for example,

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you're looking at two, you know,
2.1% and now we're at 3.1%. And,

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you know, you know, the article
and four is predicting that by

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fall, the fall, summer, we're
looking at between four 4.5% on

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an on average, which, you know,
it, you know, it's definitely

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going up so

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Sean Murray: Yeah, so if you're
out there and you work in the in

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the lending world, be prepared
to potentially have to pay more

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for funds that you borrow your
competitors may also increase

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their own rates. Yeah. So you
may see rates go up rather than

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down. And one of the things that
correlates with this sudden

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prediction that rates will
increase is that we're seeing a,

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I guess, you could say, an
expected event in the stock

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market. Yeah. That being that
the stock market is going down.

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If you go on to like CNN or Fox
News, like, oh, it's because

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there's some international event
taking place between like Russia

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and Ukraine, and everyone's
scared. That's not what it is.

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What it is, is that when
interest rates go up, the allure

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of the stock market goes down.
Right? Yeah. Because if interest

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rates are zero, let's say you're
gonna, you're gonna say you're a

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big pension bond, and you have
to invest somebody's pensions.

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And like, like for, you know,
10s of 1000s, maybe even

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millions of workers. If that if
a treasury bond is yielding,

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essentially 0%, then you're not
going to do anything for these

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people who are hoping to retire
on the money. Right? So what do

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you do you put the money in the
stock market? Yeah. Because the

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alternative is 0%. Yeah, they
say I'll take some risks,

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because they get some yield, you
put it in an index fund, you can

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earn, you know, 1.8%, just on
the dividends. So that sounds

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good to a lot of people even
even though there's downside

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risk. Now, because interest
rates are expected to go up,

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right? All of a sudden, you have
yield to to earn on bonds, so

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that big pension bond that had
all this money in the stock

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market is going to take the
billions out of there and put it

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into like a treasury, right. So
when you hear like the stock

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market is going down, because
there's some international event

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of the economy is crashing, and
something that's not what it is,

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it's just that all of a sudden,
now you have a variety of

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options to invest in the market
before it was like you had to

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put money in the stock market,
because you couldn't, couldn't

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earn any money in like bonds or
treasuries, or whatever. That

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may also be why this is complete
speculation why we're seeing a

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crypto bloodbath. Yeah. Do you
have any friends who invest in

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crypto

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Johny Fernandez: I do I have a
handful of friends that are

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investing in crypto, and a lot
of them woke up. And they've

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tweeted, they're panicking
because they're like, hey, like,

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this is like, we're hitting a
low and a lot of them are

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cashing out. They're cashing out
cashing out, they're cashing

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out. They're like, hey, you know
were,

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Sean Murray: let me ask you a
question. Do you know if

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they're, if they're just taking
lower profits? Are they selling

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at a loss? No, they're selling
at a loss. So you know, it's

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it's interesting to see just
normal human behavior, right?

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Yeah. Because, you know,
normally you don't buy at the

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high and sell at the low. Yeah,
you just write it out? Yeah,

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that's what you're supposed to
do. Yeah, right. But it's not

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uncommon. You hear that your
friends are not uncommon. Yeah.

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Yeah. This is what so many
people are doing Yeah. Is

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they're saying I'd rather have
something than end up with

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essentially zero right. So
they're probably fearing that

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the numbers going down? Yeah, to
zero. Yeah. And they'd rather

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have something rather than than
nothing that basically

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Johny Fernandez: Essentially
what's going on and I think in

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their mind they're freaking out
because they're like, oh my god,

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like there was just big hype.
There was this like, you know,

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we're making a ton of money
let's do this and now that it's

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coming down, it's just like, oh
my gosh, let me take it out. Let

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me make sure I have something
I'm gonna recover some of my

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money. I heard you know,
different people saying oh my

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god, like I put in you know, a
couple 1000s I'm coming up I'm

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coming I'm leaving with like the
six $700 But you know,

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something's better than nothing
and and there's this whole panic

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all over Twitter honestly, not
only with my friends but online.

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And people are just like, and
I've heard two different sides

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other people are like willing to
stick it out and you know, they

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have all this hope that you
know, bitcoins gonna be

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something that's going to save
the economy, yeah

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Sean Murray: Yeah. Well, I mean,
what you're what you're

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describing is extremely common.
This is exactly what happened

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the last time Bitcoin had
Bitcoin had a big run back in

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2017. Yeah, everyone bought in
it was going up in this huge

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hype cycle, then it start to go
down, start to go down a bit

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more and people start to freak
out. And then you have people

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selling people selling for a
loss and that poisoned the water

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for a long, long time where
people wanted nothing to do with

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crypto people would be mad they
would get mad at us. When we

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would write about Bitcoin.
They're like that's a scam.

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Yeah, it's a scam. I can't
believe you write about it. A

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couple years go by and like
Bitcoin is going up. You need to

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write more about Bitcoin. That's
how we're going to get rich.

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Johny Fernandez: But again, it's
it's a cycle things that always

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happen. It's like something goes
up and goes back down. It's a

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cycle.

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Sean Murray: It's it's, it is a
cycle. You know, I don't know

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I've said for a very long time
that I do not invest in crypto,

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Johny Fernandez: but when you
tweeted something really

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interesting that caught my
attention. And I'm gonna

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definitely butcher it right now.
But you tweeted something that

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Bitcoin was made to invest.
Because

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Sean Murray: No, I said I was
not made. Yeah, well, when I

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said that Bitcoin is not
investment, okay, it's a way to

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move money outside of banking.
Yeah. In my mind, that's all

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it's for, okay. In fact, the
founder of Bitcoin, Satoshi

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Nakamoto, who no one knows who
that is. He described it as a

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peer to peer payment system
outside of banking. Right? It's

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about sending money between two
people. We don't need the bank

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to do it. Yeah. So naturally,
we're deBanked. Right? Here's a

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way to move money outside of the
banking system makes total sense

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to me. Yeah, the whole concept
that people like we need to buy,

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because it's going to go up,
like this totally is totally

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lost on me, or we need to buy it
because it's the new digital

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gold. Maybe there's maybe
there's some merit to that,

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right. But the whole, like, it's
gonna go to a million dollars,

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we got to get rich, you got to
get in. That's not even what

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it's for. It's like, I think
it's important for certain

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people to kind of understand
what Bitcoin is even for, if

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someone told you that, it's, you
need to get into it, because

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it's gonna go up and you're
gonna get rich, that's not even

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what Bitcoin is for.

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Johny Fernandez: I'll pause that
because I know for a fact that

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especially during this last
cycle, because that's what I'm

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gonna call it a cycle. A lot of
people got into just for that

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reason, because they saw that
their friends were doing it they

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saw that their friends were
doing it and they put, I know a

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lot of guys that have put
literally like they're like I'm

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gonna cash out of my 401k and
put it into Bitcoin.

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Sean Murray: This happened in
2017. Now, literally, it was

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literally like watching it was
deja vu for me. Yeah, to watch

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the same thing play out. All
over again, people are selling

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just like they did in 2018.
After the 2017 bull market.

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Bitcoin is not even an
investment and my from, from my

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perspective, it's really just
about moving money outside of

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banking. There there, there is
utility to other forms of

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crypto, like, Ethereum has the
whole smart contract, smart

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contract concept to it, right? I
think that's really cool. Yeah.

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And it's different than Bitcoin,
Bitcoin and Aetherium some of

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the other Kryptos there's
different purposes to each of

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that. But bitcoin is very
limited. The beautiful part

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about Bitcoin, it's just about I
can send money to you. And

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there's nobody out there that
says, hey, you can't send it to

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him. Yeah, this happens. And you
might not appreciate that, if

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you've never had to deal with
it. Yeah. If you work in a

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business and you want to send
money internationally, guess

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what? Someone can say no, yeah.
You have to worry about whether

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or not the bank on the other
side is going to accept it and

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say, Well, what country did it
come from? Why are you sending

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this money? Yeah, how do you
know this person? Yeah, they

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want to know all these things.
Yeah. They also they have their

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hand in the pot, and they want
to charge you for it too. They

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want to take their feet,

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Johny Fernandez: They take the
charge that nice. That's that

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fear.

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Sean Murray: So once you start
to appreciate it becomes

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difficult to send money within
the banking system, once you

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reach a certain size or do
certain type of transactions,

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you're like, I really wish I
just had control and I could do

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whatever I wanted. Yeah, that's
what Bitcoin is for. Yeah,

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that's what Bitcoin is for. If
you're like, hey, I bought

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Bitcoin, because it's going up,
and I'm gonna get rich. I think

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you were you were fed some false
information. That's my personal

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point of view.

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Johny Fernandez: It Yeah. I
mean, it's, it's interesting how

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everything again, everything's a
big cycle, you know, like

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interest rates are going back
up, things are gonna hopefully

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level out and kind of go correct
itself. Bitcoins going back

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down. It's I don't know, I want
to word it and say it's crashing

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and burning. Like it's gonna go.
That's it. But again, it's all a

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cycle. Yeah. That that, you
know, it's gonna cycle through

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and then in a couple years,
we're gonna see the same thing

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happen again, and potentially,
yeah, you know, like things are

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going back up, like, let's let's
buy into Bitcoin. Yeah,

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Sean Murray: Well, you know,
we're only talking about this

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because they're just talking
about interest rates in the

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stock market. But is it any
coincidence that the stock

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market is going down at the same
time crypto is going down?

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Perhaps it's not a coincidence,
perhaps it's due to the fact

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that some people were borrowing
money very cheaply at near zero

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and using it to put money into
crypto. Because it hey, it's

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gonna go up, you know, I mean,
crypto is gonna go up. So I

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borrow money and put it into
crypto, all of a sudden, now,

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lenders are starting to tighten
up a little bit, you know,

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interest rates are gonna go up a
little bit like, Well, maybe

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it's not a smart thing to borrow
money to put it into crypto

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anymore. So I'm just gonna kind
of, you know, kind of cool off

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on that. That could be one of
the causes of why crypto is

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coming out. At the same time.
The fact that interest rates the

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you have opportunity cost in the
market when you where you're

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going to invest and where you
can park your money. You know,

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is it bonds is it the stock
market is it crypto crypto is

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kind of this new thing, and
bonds and like let's say

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treasury bonds are out because
you earn 0%. So you're like oh

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stock market and crypto, you
plop it into both of them. Now

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you're like, you know what, now
I can put it into into bonds and

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treasury, you know, treasuries
all over again. I'm going to

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take my all my billions out of
there, what happens these two

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things crash, and then everyone
starts to panic. What's going on

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is

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Johny Fernandez: So so let me
ask you this for someone that is

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watching right now and they have
their money invested, you know

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whether it's in crypto or
they're trying to borrow borrow

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money, and they see that
interest, interest rates are

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going up and they have money in
the stock market and the stocks

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are going back, they're going
down. What would you say? Should

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they panic? Should they just be
like, Oh my gosh, like, let me

294
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take my money out and let me not
like do anything. Like, what

295
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would you say to them? Cuz a lot
of people are panicking. That's

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just the truth. A lot of people
are like, I'm gonna cash out.

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Gotta cash out, like, cause this
panic mode that's going on

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today? Yeah, yeah. What would
you say to them?

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Sean Murray: I'd say you need to
think through what your

300
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investment strategy is ahead of
time. So that you don't end up

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in this type of situation. And
now nobody wants to hear this

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after the fact. Yeah. So my own
personal investment strategy is

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that I am in index funds long
term.

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Johny Fernandez: Okay. So you're
looking at you look at long term

305
00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:00.510
picture, big picture in a couple
years from now.

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00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:04.080
Sean Murray: Twenty, thirty
years. Okay. All right. I invest

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time like, you know, ten,
twnety, thirty, year basis.

308
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Okay. I don't care about a
couple years. So

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Johny Fernandez: you don't care
about the five year plan, like

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00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:12.689
two year plan? That's not even
your mindset?

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Sean Murray: No, it's not. It's
not even my mindset. I'm not

312
00:16:14.790 --> 00:16:17.340
investing money that I you know,
I'm going to need six months

313
00:16:17.340 --> 00:16:21.060
from now. Okay, that that money
for me isn't isn't invested in

314
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like something like crypto,
whatever. Anything that would be

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I don't invest in crypto. Okay.
So if you invested in crypto,

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00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:30.060
and you're saying, you know,
Sean what should I do? I would

317
00:16:30.060 --> 00:16:35.520
say don't invest in in coins and
tokens. It's, it's a terrible

318
00:16:35.520 --> 00:16:40.440
investment. Okay. And so it this
was said at Broker Fair by Slava

319
00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:42.600
Rubin, he's like, You should
like you should invest in the

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concept. And everyone
immediately goes to what coin

321
00:16:44.850 --> 00:16:47.790
should I buy? And he's like,
he's not what he was saying not

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about buying the coin. It's
about creating a company that

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does something with the
infrastructure. Yeah, it's about

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00:16:54.420 --> 00:16:59.040
getting into payments. So many
people don't want to do any of

325
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the work. They just want to sit
at home, press some buttons on

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their phone, and hope that it
goes up. Right. But the way to

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00:17:06.420 --> 00:17:11.340
make money in crypto is to build
a crypto company. That's the

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truth. So that's what you should
be thinking about next time

329
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around, not, oh, I should have
bought different coins, or I

330
00:17:17.190 --> 00:17:20.070
should have sold at the top. And
this doesn't make sense. You

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know, I was lied to about
crypto. Yeah, you were lied to

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about crypto from the standpoint
of he thought crypto, which is

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00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:29.460
something it was just like some
sort of investment where if you

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just buy a coin, and you told
your friends to also buy the

335
00:17:32.460 --> 00:17:36.210
coin, then it will go up and
you'll be rich. Like that's not.

336
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That's not real investing. Yeah,
that's not real. That's not

337
00:17:39.840 --> 00:17:43.200
investing. I don't really know
what that is. It's like, you got

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00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:46.350
it. You got to think bigger
picture. If crypto is you know,

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00:17:46.350 --> 00:17:49.230
one of your strategies. I would
never buy a coin says let's hope

340
00:17:49.230 --> 00:17:52.350
it goes up. Me personally. Yeah.
And I'm very much into crypto.

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Yeah, but the whole concept, I'm
gonna buy a coin and then hope

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other people buy the same coin.
Yeah. It's just and what is it

343
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backed by nothing. So you an
indexed bond is backed by the

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companies who are producing
value for the entire economy.

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Right. All the things that exist
in the physical, tangible world?

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That's what behind the stocks?
But if it's just a coin, there's

347
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nothing behind it. Yeah, then
there's nothing to it. Right? It

348
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can go to zero, because what's
behind it? Nothing. Yeah. But if

349
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you can the entire stock market
go to zero? Well, I guess the

350
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whole country, all in all
physical made goods would have

351
00:18:27.150 --> 00:18:31.800
to go to zero too. Yeah, that's
true. Stocks have like, you

352
00:18:31.800 --> 00:18:34.290
know, they have like a book
value. You have like the market

353
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value, and the book value and
like, they can come down to the

354
00:18:36.090 --> 00:18:38.970
book value, you say, it goes
below book value, like, Wow, is

355
00:18:38.970 --> 00:18:41.130
it an attractive investment?
Yeah. Because it's below the

356
00:18:41.130 --> 00:18:41.460
book.

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Johny Fernandez: Yeah. Well, and
I just think for me, personally,

358
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I do not invest in crypto,
because it's still fairly in its

359
00:18:48.320 --> 00:18:51.500
infancy stages. Because for
stocks, for example, for real

360
00:18:51.500 --> 00:18:56.900
estate, there's proof that like
it can surpass, you know, real

361
00:18:56.900 --> 00:18:58.940
estate is a real thing. Yeah.
Well, and that's the other

362
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thing, like you can you can
touch it, you can feel it, you

363
00:19:00.830 --> 00:19:04.790
can see it grow, you can grow
stuff on it. Yeah. And that's,

364
00:19:04.820 --> 00:19:08.060
that's, I've always been like,
kind of just like, wait and see,

365
00:19:08.120 --> 00:19:11.090
because crypto still
technically, in its infancy

366
00:19:11.090 --> 00:19:14.150
stages, it's not something
that's been able to surpass like

367
00:19:14.210 --> 00:19:18.590
fifty a hundred years of, you
know, stuff that has gone on in

368
00:19:18.590 --> 00:19:22.820
the world. You know, it's still
theres, I still want to see more

369
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proof of what will happen, you
know, after this cycle, like

370
00:19:26.870 --> 00:19:29.330
what like what's going to happen
what's, what's the pattern of

371
00:19:29.330 --> 00:19:33.110
events that like how it
functions. So that's what I want

372
00:19:33.110 --> 00:19:35.690
to see. That's why I've always
kind of been very, I like to

373
00:19:35.930 --> 00:19:39.170
observe from afar first before
jumping in. Yeah, that's, that's

374
00:19:39.170 --> 00:19:40.280
always been my mindset on it.

375
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Sean Murray: That makes sense.
And if you're someone out there

376
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who who believes they would
benefit from the value of being

377
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able to move money outside of
banking, then itcoin is

378
00:19:49.330 --> 00:19:51.550
certainly for you. Maybe not as
an investment but it's something

379
00:19:51.550 --> 00:19:55.450
that you would want to use.
Yeah. But if you're just piling

380
00:19:55.450 --> 00:19:57.370
in it because other people are
piling in it,

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Johny Fernandez: and that that
was a lot that was a big trend.

382
00:20:00.220 --> 00:20:03.190
That was a huge like, I say it
because I've had a lot of people

383
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approach me like, hey, gotta get
into Bitcoin and they approached

384
00:20:06.280 --> 00:20:09.550
me and they're like, sold on it
100% and the

385
00:20:09.550 --> 00:20:12.100
Sean Murray: individual out
there in that type of in that

386
00:20:12.100 --> 00:20:15.760
type of investment. They're
designed to be the ones that get

387
00:20:15.760 --> 00:20:18.700
screwed. Yeah. By Design.

388
00:20:18.760 --> 00:20:19.570
Johny Fernandez: Yeah, right.

389
00:20:20.560 --> 00:20:24.040
Sean Murray: That's how that's
how it works. So, I would say,

390
00:20:24.610 --> 00:20:27.940
you know, you know, what should
people do? I don't know. I don't

391
00:20:27.940 --> 00:20:30.250
know. Be smarter about your
investments next time.

392
00:20:30.490 --> 00:20:31.510
Johny Fernandez: Yeah, that's
good advice.

393
00:20:32.620 --> 00:20:34.810
Sean Murray: It's mean, but
yeah, no, but I've been saying,

394
00:20:34.810 --> 00:20:38.290
you know, watch this whole bull
run. Bitcoin happened and the

395
00:20:38.290 --> 00:20:40.570
entire time I've been saying
Bitcoin is not an investment.

396
00:20:42.340 --> 00:20:44.590
Johny Fernandez: You said from
the beginning too I mean, we've

397
00:20:44.590 --> 00:20:44.980
talked about.

398
00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:47.800
Sean Murray: I don't. Yeah, here
I am. I've been talking about

399
00:20:47.800 --> 00:20:49.840
Bitcoin for eight years. I don't
invest in Bitcoin. Why? You have

400
00:20:49.840 --> 00:20:52.240
to ask yourself, why? How can
that be Sean Murray? How can

401
00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:55.390
that be? Yeah, some people tell
me I screwed I don't get it. No,

402
00:20:55.390 --> 00:20:57.940
I get it. I know exactly what
Bitcoin is for. I love it for

403
00:20:57.940 --> 00:20:58.960
what it's used for.

404
00:20:59.010 --> 00:21:01.950
Johny Fernandez: Yeah. Although
people doubt, like,

405
00:21:03.250 --> 00:21:04.750
Sean Murray: hey, you know, who
knows, maybe I'll be proven

406
00:21:04.750 --> 00:21:06.640
wrong. Bitcoin will go to a
million everyone will laugh at

407
00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:09.880
me. That could happen too that's
all. It's also a possibility. I

408
00:21:09.880 --> 00:21:10.630
have to admit that.

409
00:21:11.080 --> 00:21:12.190
Johny Fernandez: And it goes to
a million.

410
00:21:12.850 --> 00:21:16.630
Sean Murray: I won't even care.
Yeah. Because I was never

411
00:21:16.630 --> 00:21:19.240
investing in it. Yeah. I can't
be mad about something I never

412
00:21:19.240 --> 00:21:20.200
considered in investing in

413
00:21:20.230 --> 00:21:23.290
Johny Fernandez: Yeah, that's
true. You can so Amen. Good,

414
00:21:23.320 --> 00:21:24.220
good conversation,

415
00:21:24.220 --> 00:21:27.450
Sean Murray: In regards interest
rates. Interest rate interest.

416
00:21:28.020 --> 00:21:30.780
Yeah, I did see one last point
about interest rates. I know,

417
00:21:30.780 --> 00:21:32.670
we've been talking for, like
forever long about this whole

418
00:21:32.670 --> 00:21:36.960
thing that I saw on Bloomberg,
that economists predict that

419
00:21:36.990 --> 00:21:39.990
interest rates, I guess that the
Fed funds rate will could creep

420
00:21:39.990 --> 00:21:43.950
up to as high as like 2%, they
enter 2024. And so interest

421
00:21:43.950 --> 00:21:46.530
rates for everyone else up the
chain, you know, we could be

422
00:21:46.530 --> 00:21:50.370
seeing interest rates higher
higher than, you know, six seven

423
00:21:50.370 --> 00:21:53.670
eight. He was saying more
percent by the end of the year,

424
00:21:53.670 --> 00:21:56.370
maybe in a few years, you know,
maybe eight 9% interest rates.

425
00:21:56.370 --> 00:21:58.100
Johny Fernandez: I mean, and
like I said, I mean, they said,

426
00:21:58.100 --> 00:22:02.030
4%, I've had other, you know,
lenders from banks, told me that

427
00:22:02.060 --> 00:22:05.840
their predictions were you know,
up to like, triple like, you

428
00:22:05.840 --> 00:22:09.530
know, 2%, so meaning it'll be up
to six. So, you know, obviously,

429
00:22:10.310 --> 00:22:12.230
no one knows what's going to
happen, no one has a crystal

430
00:22:12.230 --> 00:22:15.410
ball, but we do know that things
are increasing a lot higher,

431
00:22:15.410 --> 00:22:20.660
and, you know, take advantage of
that 2% or 2.1%, you know, 2.5%

432
00:22:21.110 --> 00:22:24.590
on the average, then, you know,
just take advantage now before

433
00:22:24.590 --> 00:22:27.890
it goes up. So, and then also
for the people that are doing

434
00:22:27.890 --> 00:22:30.530
the lending, they should also
kind of keep up to date

435
00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:34.280
regarding our last video,
because I think that was

436
00:22:34.280 --> 00:22:39.350
important too lenders that just
don't move and they stay like

437
00:22:39.350 --> 00:22:41.450
within that area of like low
interest rates.

438
00:22:41.660 --> 00:22:44.120
Sean Murray: Yeah, you gotta
gotta land above inflation, even

439
00:22:44.120 --> 00:22:46.550
the government's trying to wake
up to that, hey, we got to raise

440
00:22:46.550 --> 00:22:47.330
interest rates.

441
00:22:47.450 --> 00:22:50.240
Johny Fernandez: Yeah. So the
next type of conversation we're

442
00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:55.760
gonna discuss is regarding IT
Media Solutions, or Media

443
00:22:55.760 --> 00:22:59.570
Solutions, LLC. IT Media
Solutions, I don't know. Yeah.

444
00:22:59.840 --> 00:23:04.400
So this was a new. This was
something that came out

445
00:23:04.820 --> 00:23:08.990
regarding the FTC and them that
they essentially collected very

446
00:23:08.990 --> 00:23:12.770
sensitive information for for
millions of consumers. And

447
00:23:12.770 --> 00:23:16.700
essentially, they connected them
with lenders and pretty much

448
00:23:16.700 --> 00:23:20.090
gave their information out to
other companies without their

449
00:23:20.090 --> 00:23:23.120
permission, very sensitive
information, things like their

450
00:23:23.120 --> 00:23:26.930
social bank information, all
that stuff. And it pretty much

451
00:23:26.930 --> 00:23:33.080
resulted in a FTC lawsuit. So
the allegations go that since

452
00:23:33.080 --> 00:23:37.730
2012, a number of the IT media's
affiliate companies and their

453
00:23:37.730 --> 00:23:40.880
owners have operated hundreds of
websites that were designed to

454
00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:45.170
entice consumers and sharing
sensitive financial information.

455
00:23:46.610 --> 00:23:52.610
So it's from what we had, I had
read from the article, they

456
00:23:52.610 --> 00:23:55.010
trade millions of people into
giving their information and

457
00:23:55.010 --> 00:23:58.070
selling it to companies that
were not making loans. So

458
00:23:58.070 --> 00:24:00.800
obviously, you know, these guys
thought that they were kind of

459
00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:06.440
dive in and go into getting
loans and whatnot. And they did

460
00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:10.460
that. So they can get their
information to the right people.

461
00:24:11.800 --> 00:24:15.880
Sean Murray: Okay, so here's the
takeaway from all that. If you

462
00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:19.180
are someone who participates in
lead generation, and you own a

463
00:24:19.180 --> 00:24:21.850
bunch of different websites, and
you say, hey, we're going to

464
00:24:21.850 --> 00:24:25.330
connect, connect you with a
lender, based upon the

465
00:24:25.330 --> 00:24:29.410
information you put in, and
something else happens along the

466
00:24:29.410 --> 00:24:34.120
way, you could potentially be
violating federal law. So this

467
00:24:34.120 --> 00:24:37.150
particular company that Johnny
mentioned, they owned a bunch of

468
00:24:37.150 --> 00:24:39.880
different websites. They were
lead generation sites, you might

469
00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:43.150
even think, oh, that sounds like
somebody that I might even know

470
00:24:43.180 --> 00:24:46.720
they owned cashadvance.com They
owned, I think it was

471
00:24:48.130 --> 00:24:53.590
badcreditloans.com. Right. They
own generic sites, that a

472
00:24:53.590 --> 00:24:58.420
consumer or potential borrower
would find online, and they

473
00:24:58.420 --> 00:25:01.540
would apply for a loan on with
the understanding that these

474
00:25:01.540 --> 00:25:05.320
particular sites, were going to
connect them with a lender, that

475
00:25:05.320 --> 00:25:08.170
it was a loan marketplace, I
bring this up, because this is a

476
00:25:08.170 --> 00:25:11.920
very common business model J,
you go up, you go on a website,

477
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:13.990
it says something about, we're
going to connect you with a

478
00:25:13.990 --> 00:25:17.020
lender were a loan marketplace,
you put in your information,

479
00:25:17.020 --> 00:25:20.440
they try to connect you. And
everything sounds very normal up

480
00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:24.220
until this point, yeah, except
the FTC says, what happens next

481
00:25:24.250 --> 00:25:28.000
is where you break the law, that
if you then sell that

482
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:32.710
information, to let's say, like
a credit repair company, or a

483
00:25:32.710 --> 00:25:37.210
debt relief company, or you sell
the credit score of that

484
00:25:37.210 --> 00:25:40.300
applicant to somebody, hey, you
done things you weren't supposed

485
00:25:40.300 --> 00:25:41.980
to, you said you were gonna
connect them with the lender.

486
00:25:42.310 --> 00:25:44.890
Instead, you took their data,
and you sold it, debt relief

487
00:25:44.890 --> 00:25:47.740
company, credit repair company,
you know, all these other data

488
00:25:47.740 --> 00:25:50.140
companies. And if you're the
person who owned the website,

489
00:25:50.140 --> 00:25:52.600
you might be, you might be
thinking, Well, hey, I'm just

490
00:25:52.600 --> 00:25:56.380
monetizing this lead as much as
I can, right? Yeah, they, they

491
00:25:56.380 --> 00:26:00.010
qualify or don't qualify for a
loan. But hey, they probably

492
00:26:00.010 --> 00:26:03.700
would benefit from all of these
other products. FTC says you

493
00:26:03.700 --> 00:26:06.250
can't do that. He said, You're
going to offer them a loan,

494
00:26:06.250 --> 00:26:08.260
you're gonna connect them with a
lender, and you and you did

495
00:26:08.260 --> 00:26:11.290
things that were outside of that
scope, you broke the law, this

496
00:26:11.290 --> 00:26:16.900
company got fined $1.5 million
for taking leads, people were

497
00:26:16.900 --> 00:26:20.770
applying for loans. And with the
belief that it was gonna be they

498
00:26:20.770 --> 00:26:23.290
were going to be connected with
a lender in a marketplace. And

499
00:26:23.290 --> 00:26:26.590
because other things happened,
the company running the the

500
00:26:26.590 --> 00:26:29.710
websites they got in trouble.
Yeah, this should be this should

501
00:26:29.710 --> 00:26:33.040
be a wake up call for anyone who
relies on websites, very, you

502
00:26:33.040 --> 00:26:35.770
know, multiple websites, or even
just one website, where you say,

503
00:26:35.770 --> 00:26:38.530
you're gonna connect a potential
borrower, with a network of

504
00:26:38.530 --> 00:26:38.980
lenders.

505
00:26:39.050 --> 00:26:41.570
Johny Fernandez: So and
according to like, the the the

506
00:26:41.570 --> 00:26:45.230
report that was online, they
said that 84% of the loan

507
00:26:45.230 --> 00:26:49.400
applications, never made it to
the lender, their information is

508
00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:54.020
given to, you know, all these
companies 84% that's

509
00:26:54.020 --> 00:26:56.397
Sean Murray: Well, so here's the
thing, right? So I'm looking at

510
00:26:56.455 --> 00:26:59.508
it from the, from the
perspective of the company that

511
00:26:59.566 --> 00:27:03.080
may be operated the site, they
have lead generation sites for

512
00:27:03.137 --> 00:27:06.709
loans. People throw out their
information, yep, it becomes 80,

513
00:27:06.766 --> 00:27:10.223
let's say 84% of them qualify
for nothing. Right? So what do

514
00:27:10.280 --> 00:27:13.564
you do? Throw them in the
garbage? Well, like, they don't

515
00:27:13.621 --> 00:27:17.250
qualify for loans. So I'm going
to sell it to this person could

516
00:27:17.308 --> 00:27:20.822
really benefit from debt relief,
the real problem is not that

517
00:27:20.879 --> 00:27:24.451
they need more money. Yeah, the
real problem is that they need

518
00:27:24.509 --> 00:27:27.850
to talk to some sort of debt
settlement company, where the

519
00:27:27.907 --> 00:27:31.248
real problem is that their
credit is too low. So I'm going

520
00:27:31.306 --> 00:27:34.877
to sell it to a credit repair
company. So let's say 84% of the

521
00:27:34.935 --> 00:27:38.564
people inquire, are eligible for
one of the loans that you have

522
00:27:38.622 --> 00:27:42.136
available at the lenders you
work with in your network? Yeah,

523
00:27:42.193 --> 00:27:45.650
so you sell it to other people.
Yeah, where this customer in

524
00:27:45.707 --> 00:27:48.991
your mind, you think would
benefit? FTC says you can't do

525
00:27:49.048 --> 00:27:52.447
that. That's illegal. That
violates the law. That should be

526
00:27:52.505 --> 00:27:55.961
a wake up call. For anyone who
has a lending website and you

527
00:27:56.019 --> 00:27:59.417
say, well, this person applied
for a loan. And because they

528
00:27:59.475 --> 00:28:02.816
right off the bat did not
qualify for one, I then sold her

529
00:28:02.874 --> 00:28:06.503
information to a credit repair
company, or debt relief company.

530
00:28:06.560 --> 00:28:10.074
If they weren't explicitly told
that that's what you would do

531
00:28:10.132 --> 00:28:13.761
with your information, you could
be violating the law. Now, I'm

532
00:28:13.818 --> 00:28:17.505
not a lawyer. Right? So I'm just
reading the press release. That

533
00:28:17.563 --> 00:28:21.192
was that was that came out from
the FTC. But if you are in this

534
00:28:21.250 --> 00:28:24.475
small business, finance
industry, or any type of lending

535
00:28:24.533 --> 00:28:28.220
industry doesn't matter what it
is, and you encounter people who

536
00:28:28.277 --> 00:28:31.791
do not qualify for financing and
you say, Well, I still gotta

537
00:28:31.849 --> 00:28:35.248
monetize it, I'm going to sell
it, this data to somebody be

538
00:28:35.248 --> 00:29:15.510
Johny Fernandez: Yeah. And it's,
I think it's interesting because

539
00:29:15.510 --> 00:28:38.704
very, very careful, because the
FTC is saying, you can't do

540
00:28:38.761 --> 00:28:42.218
that. So pay attention to that.
This literally came out. You

541
00:28:42.275 --> 00:28:45.789
know, Johnny said, we're not
sure if it's pronounced IT media

542
00:28:45.847 --> 00:28:49.534
or it media, we're not sure. But
this came out on January 7, and

543
00:28:49.591 --> 00:28:52.759
it said, they now face
restrictions on their operation.

544
00:28:52.817 --> 00:28:56.389
So not only they're a fine, but
now they're all they also have

545
00:28:56.446 --> 00:28:59.499
to make all these all these
changes. And this type of

546
00:28:59.557 --> 00:29:03.013
business model sounds just very,
very familiar. Yeah, make a

547
00:29:03.071 --> 00:29:06.412
bunch of websites, acquire
leads. And for people who don't

548
00:29:06.469 --> 00:29:09.811
qualify, perhaps you try to
monetize those leads some some

549
00:29:09.868 --> 00:29:12.000
other way. FTC says you can't do
that

550
00:29:15.510 --> 00:29:18.510
I, when you look at the people
that we work with directly here

551
00:29:18.510 --> 00:29:22.860
in this space, a lot of people
don't know the rules. They don't

552
00:29:22.860 --> 00:29:26.310
look at on a lot of them that
I've noticed they don't do their

553
00:29:26.310 --> 00:29:29.520
full due diligence, so do some
of it. And if they have a

554
00:29:29.520 --> 00:29:31.200
situation like this, where
they're giving out the

555
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:34.200
information, you don't know
you're doing, you're doing it

556
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:36.570
and then you get hit with this.
And like you said, I think

557
00:29:36.570 --> 00:29:38.970
what's really sad is when you
end up, you know, not only

558
00:29:38.970 --> 00:29:41.730
getting fined, but then also you
can't work in the space or you

559
00:29:41.730 --> 00:29:45.060
can't do anything similar and
you kind of end up getting your

560
00:29:45.060 --> 00:29:48.690
hands tied and you're like
alright, well, I just I lost

561
00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:51.420
pretty much everything from not
knowing you're not doing the due

562
00:29:51.420 --> 00:29:54.180
diligence, of understanding what
I'm getting myself into.

563
00:29:54.510 --> 00:29:58.080
Sean Murray: Yeah, hey, I mean,
I think this type of situation

564
00:29:58.080 --> 00:30:01.680
is even surprising to me. That
if someone comes on your website

565
00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:03.060
and you say we're going to
connect you with a bunch of

566
00:30:03.060 --> 00:30:06.090
different lenders, and upon the
information they fill out, you

567
00:30:06.090 --> 00:30:08.730
find out that they don't qualify
for anything. And you say, well,

568
00:30:08.730 --> 00:30:11.370
I'll just sell their information
to, you know, credit credit

569
00:30:11.370 --> 00:30:15.480
repair. Yeah. That that's
potentially against the law. To

570
00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:19.890
do. Yeah, no, it's, it's, I'm
not lecturing. No, I'm just I'm

571
00:30:19.890 --> 00:30:22.620
just telling you, this is what
you should know about. Yeah,

572
00:30:22.650 --> 00:30:26.370
because this is almost even. So
you know, somewhat news to me.

573
00:30:26.940 --> 00:30:29.460
You know, a company did get in
trouble for doing it. And they

574
00:30:29.460 --> 00:30:32.460
own websites that sound like
ones we probably have visited

575
00:30:32.460 --> 00:30:36.330
before, like badcreditloans.com
cashadvance.com, this was all

576
00:30:36.330 --> 00:30:39.510
consumer loans. But I think it
still applies regardless.

577
00:30:39.540 --> 00:30:43.200
Johny Fernandez: Yeah, no, it
definitely does. So always good

578
00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:46.440
to keep everyone up to date
regarding situation, like things

579
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:49.350
like that, because it'll,
definitely help benefit them and

580
00:30:49.350 --> 00:30:55.170
understanding that you can get
in big trouble, essentially. So

581
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:58.920
for more stories, obviously, and
any other videos that we have

582
00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:03.360
online, you can check us out on
deBanked.com or check us out on

583
00:31:03.360 --> 00:31:05.880
our social media platforms on
Twitter, LinkedIn, and

584
00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:09.660
Instagram, obviously, those will
always lead you back into

585
00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:13.290
deBanked.com. Or you can also
check out Daily Funder. That's

586
00:31:13.290 --> 00:31:16.080
definitely a great website to
interact with different people

587
00:31:16.230 --> 00:31:20.190
and, and get, you know, kind of
get an idea of what's going on

588
00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:23.670
in the industry. And stories
like this would definitely also

589
00:31:23.670 --> 00:31:27.450
pop up on there too. So
definitely two good resources.

590
00:31:27.870 --> 00:31:30.570
If you're new, if you've been
doing it for a while, and also

591
00:31:30.570 --> 00:31:33.210
if you know you want to help
other people out and give

592
00:31:33.330 --> 00:31:36.270
information to other people,
definitely check those out. So

593
00:31:36.360 --> 00:31:39.930
yeah. So So that does it for us
today. Again, I'm Johnny

594
00:31:39.930 --> 00:31:40.560
Fernandez.

595
00:31:41.470 --> 00:31:43.450
Sean Murray: I'm Sean Murray.
And we'll see you guys next time