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Johny Fernandez: Johny
Fernandez, Sean, it's good to

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see you.

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Sean Murray: Good to see you,
too.

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Johny Fernandez: Sean, it's an
exciting day, because we have

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another round of the lightning
round.

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Sean Murray: Excellent.

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Johny Fernandez: It's been a
hit. But we have a couple of

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questions we want to chat with
you about, I want to chat with

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you about and I know the viewers
also want to chat with you about

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this. So if you're ready, do you
accept the challenge?

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Sean Murray: I accept the
challenge.

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Johny Fernandez: Okay.

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Sean Murray: It has been an
interesting exercise.

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Johny Fernandez: Why is that?

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Sean Murray: Just doing these. I
think because I've worked in it

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for so long, you know,
alternative finance, non bank

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finance, small business lending,
MCA, all that other stuff. And I

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think it's been a little bit of
just kind of like a wake up call

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for me to acknowledge how many
new entrants have joined the

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industry, and kind of where the
education level is at and what

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we can do to try to help them
out. So I feel like, even though

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this has been a strange and
different format, you just you

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asking me questions or whatever.
We have found that people have

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really enjoyed it and found it
to be beneficial.

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Johny Fernandez: Yeah. So you
said this a couple months ago,

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that you saw an increase of
businesses signing up for the

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DailyFunder, like they're
emailed, walk me through the

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difference between, you know,
what you saw now versus last

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year, two years ago, just the
numbers like before COVID, or

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after COVID, what was the
percentage or the number that

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you saw of people signing up to
be part of deBanked? Versus

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businesses that went out, etc?

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Sean Murray: Yeah, well, you
know, I didn't, I didn't dig up

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any numbers before we went on.
But.

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Johny Fernandez: Rough estimate.

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Sean Murray: Rough estimate. You
know, I actually forget, we

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talked about this before, but I
can I can give you something.

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Yeah. to your to your question
is that we saw a, a significant

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amount of registered users on
DailyFunder whose email

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addresses no longer existed
after COVID. It's one thing to

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try to measure who's still in
business and who's not right and

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not be 100% sure, but if your
email address no longer exists,

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you certainly don't work there
anymore. That's a very good

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indication, we saw a lot of
people drop off drop off of

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DailyFunder. But at the same
time, we added more new people

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than we lost. That was, that was
the craziest thing to me, right,

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that we added more new people
than we lost. And my first

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thought on that was that it was
folks who left one company, and

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then went to another one, right.
And so you have you have people

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who have been in it for a while,
they're not using their old

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email anymore, it's inactive,
it's disabled, deleted, and now

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they've come back, but under a
different company, maybe they

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started their own. But I think I
found that that's not actually

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entirely the case, there wasn't
a lot of people going from one

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company to another during COVID.
Not a lot of hiring was was

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going on. And I think what we've
learned since then, is that it's

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a lot of brand new people who
have never been in the business

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before getting into it. And part
of that it has been driven by

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the work from home crowd, who
has been training, they've been

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training brokers, online, in
Facebook, to private groups, and

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so on. And then we have brand
new people who've taken that

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training, a lot of them working
from home and individually. And

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then they've signed up for
DailyFunder, and they've signed

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up for deBanked. And so we have
this whole new generation of

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people who literally, you know,
are just learning it for the

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first time that you know, so I
don't have a statistic for you.

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But that's a major trend we've
seen. And I think that's why

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this has, you know, this type of
format we've been doing. Yeah.

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Has proven to be so valuable.

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Johny Fernandez: Yeah. Because
it's pretty much the basic 101

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of the business. And I think
it's really interesting that,

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you know, being in something for
so long, you think everyone

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knows, you know, what an ISO is,
or, you know, what, just a

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simple definitions of certain
things. But I think, you know,

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there are people out there that
don't know, and like we've said

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in the past that they're scared
to ask, you know, simple

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questions like, what's the
point? Like, what's an ISO?

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What's a broker? What's a
lender? Like, these things that

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you think is universal, but may
not know the answer, and that's

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okay.

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Sean Murray: Yeah, I mean, it's
okay in the very beginning, when

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you're.

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Johny Fernandez: In the very
beginning, yes.

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Sean Murray: When you're first
starting out, it's not okay. If

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you've been working on it for
years, and you still don't know.

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Yeah. So if you're one of those
people, and you've been working

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Johny Fernandez: Yeah. So
without further ado, let's get

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it for years, and this is helped
you learn what you didn't know,

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I'm happy, right. I'm happy.
It's helpful. Yeah. But at the

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same time, I'm hoping you don't
operate in this business not

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knowing a lot of what a lot of
what you've been asking. Some of

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it has been complex. You know,
you say it's like basic, some of

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it has been a little bit
complex, and I understand that

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but you know, you don't want to
operate in the commercial

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finance space and not know
certain terms and lingo and

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stuff because it's very
important when you're

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communicating products to a
customer and also from a legal

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perspective to make sure you're
doing everything properly. You

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yourself are protected when
you're putting these deals

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together. And so, you know, I
say we'll do as many of these as

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people desire not not everyone,
is it not everyone is, is

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emailing us, some, some of you
are, but we can see it in the

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statistics and all that stuff.
And in all the traffic charts,

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this is the type of content that
people are actually quite

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interested

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started.

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Sean Murray: The new lightning
round.

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Johny Fernandez: Alright, so
Sean, first question. What is a

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high risk lender?

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Sean Murray: Okay, what is a
high risk lender? A high risk

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lender is a lender that
underwrites and focuses on high

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risk applicants. But maybe that
doesn't answer your question,

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right? It really should be I
think, at the end of the day,

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what is high risk. And if we're
talking about non bank, finance,

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non bank, lenders, non bank
funders, they can help

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businesses all across the
spectrum, they can help ones

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with very good credit, very weak
credit, high revenue, low

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revenue, a long time in
business, low time in business.

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But there is, you know, there is
a category for those for

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businesses that are essentially
impaired in some way, you know,

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they have unsteady cash flow,
history of NSS, the owners have

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poor credit, maybe they have a
past or recent bankruptcy, maybe

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they're having issues with their
rent, maybe their sales are

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going down. And that enters the
the realm of high risk. But when

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I think people say, what is a
high risk lender? I think

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they're often asking about the
highest risk possible,

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basically, like everything is
going wrong type type of thing.

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That's just been my experience
when people say, you know, Sean,

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what do you know, a high risk
lender, I have this deal,

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they're typically talking about,
you know, the, the most

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difficult of difficult
situations. And so a high risk

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lender in that context is
someone who can offer capital or

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financing or funding to
businesses or applicants in that

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type of circumstance. And, you
know, the one thing that could

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be universally true is that the
cost is probably going to be

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quite high versus say, a low
risk lender.

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Johny Fernandez: So let's to
back up. So high risk, like if

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you're a high risk client, or
individual, and you're trying to

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work with a company, what would
what would make you fall into

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that category of being a high
risk person, company, etc?

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Sean Murray: Yeah. So you know,
it's, it depends on the lender

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or their funder who is
underwriting the deal. They have

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their own risk categories. So
you know, the answer is it

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depends, right. But there are
certain factors that kind of

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play a role throughout and
across the industry. The credit

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score of the owners is usually a
factor. Yeah. It's going to be

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things like whether or not
there's like liens and judgments

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that could play a factor time in
business is a factor. If you are

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a, if you are a brand new
business, you've been open

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three, you know, three to six
months, and you're applying for

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capital, you may have all these
other great attributes about you

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that make you look so good. But
at the same time, three to six

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months, it's hard to gauge what
the future success of your

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business is going to be, even if
you started off pretty well. So

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that can be considered high
risk. So it's really not just

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about it's really not just about
credit, it could just it could

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be about a business. That's
seasonal, that only does you

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know very well in say three or
four months of the year. And you

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now have to worry about whether
or not the seasons are going to

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going to remain consistent. Is
there going to be snow at the

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ski resort? You know what I
mean? Yeah. Or or is there going

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to be a hurricane at the beach
resort? Right? Yeah. That type

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of business could be high risk.
It's all going to depend on upon

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the appetite the lender or the
funder has for the deal that

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determines what risk category it
falls in. But those are the

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those are the general the
general things that they'll be

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looking at.

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Johny Fernandez: Okay. Great.
Thank you.

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Sean Murray: You're welcome.

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Johny Fernandez: So the next
question is, what is a

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consolidation?

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Sean Murray: What is the
consolidation? So I think we're

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talking about what is what is
essentially what is debt

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consolidation. And debt
consolidation is when you get a

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loan, to pay off multiple other
loans, and then you pay off the

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one lender instead. So it can be
quite challenging to juggle 3,

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4, 5, 6, or even more loans at
once, or, you know, maybe it's

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advances and you have a daily
debit coming out, you know, 3,

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4, 5, 6 of them at a time, every
single day. And you'd rather

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just manage the relationship
with one rather than logging

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into five or six different
portals to see you know what

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your performance history is. So,
a consolidation is the is a

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financial company that will
essentially satisfy the

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obligations of all the other
outstanding balances you have.

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And then you will only pay the
one that remains. That's the

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consolidation.

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Johny Fernandez: So the other
question is what is a reverse

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consolidation?

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Sean Murray: What is a reverse
consolidation? So, you know, I

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don't know where this term came
from, but it's gotten quite

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popular in the last few years in
the in the non bank finance

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industry. What is a reverse
consolidation? So what's

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different is that instead of the
the consolidator paying off all

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of your outstanding loans or
obligations at once, what they

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will do instead is that they
will make the payments towards

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all your loans and obligations
as they're supposed to be paid.

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Right? And not actually pay them
off at once. They'll pay them

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off over over time. Yeah. So if
you have five lenders who are

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debiting, your account every day
or every week, the reverse

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consolidator will give you the
money, each time those debits

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are going to come out to cover
all of those payments. And at

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the end, once everyone has paid
off, or you're going to be

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paying the reverse consolidator
for a long time, because they've

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been paying all your bills, you
know, they've been paying all

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your loans off for a long time.
And so then you only have one at

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the end of it. But in the
meantime, they're gonna cover

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all of your payments, that's a
reverse consolidation.

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Johny Fernandez: The next
question is, what is debt

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settlement?

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Sean Murray: What is debt
settlement? Okay, so debt

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settlement, it's its own
industry, really, but I think if

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we're talking about in the in
the Small Business Finance

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world, debt settlement is
typically a product offered by a

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third party, debt negotiation
company, debt settlement

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company, something to that
effect, where they will try to

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come in and negotiate on behalf
of a, a borrower or or merchant,

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and then go to the the lender or
the funder and say this, this

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merchant is only going to pay
you this amount of money,

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they're in some type of they're
experiencing some type of

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financial difficulty, they were
too scared to, to tell you on

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their own, we're here to tell
you that ourselves, they're

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willing to give you X amount of
money relevant or related to

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what they owe, and essentially
settle, settle the debt for a

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lower amount, and then the the
incentive for the debt

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settlement company that they get
some type of fee for having done

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this, now, they can't charge a
fee, if they don't, if they

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don't perform a service, they
can't just charge charge you for

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the hope that they can make this
happen. The industry is actually

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quite regulated. But you know,
that's that's the nuts and bolts

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of what is debt settlement, it's
typically a third party that

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will come in and try to
negotiate with the lender on

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your behalf to try to lower the
outstanding balance and pay off

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the one shot that's less than
what the outstanding balance is.

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Johny Fernandez: So why should
one be wary of debt settlement?

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Sean Murray: Why should one be
wary of debt settlement? So

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that's a good question. If
you're the if you're the

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merchant, if you're the
borrower, you should be wary of

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debt settlement, because you
can't be 100% positive that a

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debt settlement company is going
to be able to perform exactly

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what it is that you want. If
you're if you're hopeful that

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the debt settlement company is
going to you know, settle your

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debts for 10 cents on the dollar
or whatever, there's a good

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chance that they're not going to
be able to, right, they're

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typically not not lawyers, so
they're just an independent

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negotiator. Lenders hate them,
lenders hate them. So if you're,

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if you're if you hire a debt
settlement counselor, or advisor

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or something, and they're
telling you, hey, you're gonna

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go save all this money, I'm
gonna go and negotiate on your

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behalf. Guess what the lender
hates that person, the lender

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doesn't need to talk to that
person, they can just ignore

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that person, that person is not
a party to the contract, that

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relationship on your loan, or
whatever type of product it is,

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it's between the customer and
the funding company. So the debt

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settlement company tries to come
in and say make, you know, say

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all these things, they can just
be ignored. Forget the debt

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settlement guy, right. So that's
why a borrower or a merchant

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should be wary of debt
settlement. If you're a, if

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you're a broker, you should be
wary of debt settlement because

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you might be thinking to
yourself, hey, I have a customer

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who I was trying to broker a
loan to. They don't qualify for

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one, they're in a bad situation,
but I still want to make money

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off them. So here's what I'm
gonna do. I'm going to take them

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and bring them to a debt
settlement company and try to

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get their debt settled for less,
and I'm going to make a

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commission on that referral. And
then if they settle their debts,

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I'm gonna go and bring it to a
lender and then get them a loan,

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right. All sorts of bad things
can happen there. One, you could

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be helping that merchant, that
borrower breach their loan

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contract, you could be
participating in some type of

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thing that's adversarial to the
lender. The lender is not going

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to like you as the broker if you
participated in that debt being

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settled for less or attempted to
be settled for less. And if you

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as the broker want to work with
a lender or any lender, and

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you're also at the same time
going out there and hurting

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lenders, by referring clients to
debt settlement companies to pay

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the lenders less, well, those
lenders aren't gonna want to

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work with you anymore. So if you
are a broker, you typically

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can't be bold, you can be a
broker of loans, but to also be

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a broker of debt settlement is a
real slippery slope that I mean,

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I don't think anyone should
really try it.

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Johny Fernandez: It sounds like
it can get very messy.

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Sean Murray: Very, very messy.
Yeah. And it's happened there

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have been there have been
lawsuits and things that have

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gone down. It's just it's a,
it's a, it's a dangerous game,

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anyone out there thinking, I can
make a couple extra bucks and

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debt settlement as a broker. You
know helping someone out all

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00:15:47,490 --> 00:15:48,990
you're doing is shooting
yourself in the foot.

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Johny Fernandez: Yeah, it's good
to know. So where can you learn

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more about merchant cash
advances?

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Sean Murray: Well, where can you
learn more about merchant cash

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advances, you can learn more
about merchant cash advances on

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deBanked.com, DailyFunder.com.
Seriously, though, these are

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probably the two main places
that you can learn about

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merchant cash advance. There are
other sources of information

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online, but I don't know how
authoritative they are. And I

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don't know if they have any type
of bias to them. The one good

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thing about us, at least in my
opinion, is that we are not a

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lender, we are not a broker, we
are not an investor in any of

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these companies, we don't
necessarily have a reason to,

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you know, sway your your
thoughts and ideas in one

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direction or the other other
than to make you a good citizen

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of the industry itself. And just
like let you know what's going

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on. So if you're interested in
merchant cash advances,

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deBanked.com. is great for news.
DailyFunder.com is great to kind

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of get that daily nitty gritty
of what's going on. If you liked

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Facebook, and you want to do it
all on Facebook, guess what? We

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have a Facebook group too. It's
called merchant cash advance,

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it's operated by deBanked, you
can go there and learn more

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about merchant cash advance. And
those are honestly the main

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three places that I would
personally recommend to learn

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more about merchant cash advance.

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Johny Fernandez: So where can
you learn more about the small

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business lending industry? That
is the next question.

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Sean Murray: I like how you
think, Johny, I like these

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00:17:15,300 --> 00:17:18,270
questions. Where can you learn
more about small business

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lending or the small business
lending industry? It's the same.

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You can learn more about small
business lending and the

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industry at deBanked.com,
DailyFunder.com. And it's not

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exactly lending. But there's
overlap in terms of the crowd,

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you can also go to the merchant
cash advance Facebook group that

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we operate and learn more about
business lending there. The two

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industries tend to work very
closely together, which is why I

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tend to call it the small
business finance industry. But

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if you're like, hey, I just want
to learn about small business

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lending. We report plenty about
it on deBanked. And people talk

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plenty about small business
lending on DailyFunder.

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Johny Fernandez: That's there's
a lot of that on the daily

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funder every day.

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Sean Murray: A lot of it, a lot.

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Johny Fernandez: So good to
know, that kind of ties goes

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hand in hand with the next
question is, where can brokers

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meet other brokers?

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Sean Murray: Where can brokers
meet other brokers? Okay,

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interesting question. So, you
know, networking is very

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important. If you're a broker,
it's one thing to try to meet

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lenders, but I think there is
value in a broker. Having a

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dialogue and knowing other
brokers, they can kind of

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compare their notes on on the
industry, learn, learn from each

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other, you know, build a
camaraderie, camaraderie with

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each other, so where can brokers
meet other brokers. So if we're

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talking about online first, I
would say DailyFunder,

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DailyFunder.com has a lot of
actual real life brokers from

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the industry talking with each
other every single day. Yeah. So

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if you want to meet other
brokers, and you're a broker,

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going on DailyFunder is an
essential. You don't have to

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post on there plenty of people
use the dms, right and talk to

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each other that way. There's a
lot more people who view the

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site and then even post. Yeah.
There's literally 1000s of

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brokers on on daily funder. So
whether or not you agree with,

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you know, the kind of the
atmosphere of how to

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communicate, it is invaluable
and getting to know how your

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00:19:20,570 --> 00:19:24,110
competitors think. Right? You
can learn from them for sure.

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You can also as as mentioned
before, go to the merchant cash

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events Facebook group online,
that group is mostly brokers too

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00:19:32,660 --> 00:19:35,930
I would say it's mostly brokers
asking basic questions like

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these, I imagine some of them
are probably coming from from

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Facebook, right? A lot of people
go to Facebook to ask basic

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questions because they might be
too afraid, you know,  daily. Or

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00:19:45,410 --> 00:19:47,780
the real world or on DailyFunder
where they're afraid they know

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that the pack will attack right
so we do find that people will

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ask basic questions like these
on Facebook and even in their

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00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,550
Merchant Cash events Facebook
group, but if we're talking

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about offline where it can you
meet brokers, officially, you

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00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,300
don't have to plug our
conference Broker Fair, the

365
00:20:05,300 --> 00:20:08,870
annual show we do every year is
probably the best place for a

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00:20:08,870 --> 00:20:12,860
broker to mingle with another
broker. We do more than one

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00:20:12,860 --> 00:20:16,670
conference per year in the non
non COVID, you know non COVID

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00:20:16,670 --> 00:20:21,920
environment. But we do one show
one show that's specifically

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00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,610
aimed at brokers. Yeah. Hundreds
and hundreds of brokers all in

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00:20:25,610 --> 00:20:28,010
one place, you can take the
relationship that you made

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online, and you can meet these
people in person. The next

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00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:35,060
Broker Fair we're doing is on
December 6, in New York City,

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the home where all the brokers
are.

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Johny Fernandez: Yeah, Broker
Fair.

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00:20:39,020 --> 00:20:41,150
Sean Murray: Look, I am wearing
a Broker Fair shirt. Okay, yeah,

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00:20:41,630 --> 00:20:44,600
you can just go to
BrokerFair.org. The next one

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00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,690
will be Broker Fair 2021. And
you will be able to meet plenty

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00:20:47,690 --> 00:20:50,360
of brokers there. And it can
help your career whatever it is

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00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:52,700
you're trying to do. If you just
want to learn from your peers,

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00:20:52,730 --> 00:20:55,010
or even see what your
competitors are up to, I highly

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00:20:55,220 --> 00:20:56,270
recommend Broker Fair.

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00:20:56,570 --> 00:20:58,430
Johny Fernandez: The next
question is, how can lenders

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00:20:58,430 --> 00:20:59,540
meet brokers?

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00:21:00,230 --> 00:21:03,440
Sean Murray: How can lenders
meet brokers? Well, if we're

385
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:09,080
talking about offline, Broker
Fair, obviously, right? If

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00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,030
you're if you're a lender, and
you want to meet brokers, I'm

387
00:21:11,030 --> 00:21:13,220
assuming you're talking about in
person, you have to come to

388
00:21:13,220 --> 00:21:15,830
Broker Fair, you can probably
come to our other shows, too. We

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00:21:15,830 --> 00:21:18,980
call the other shows deBanked
Connect. They're not as broker

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00:21:18,980 --> 00:21:22,520
centric, but we do get a lot of
brokers at them by virtue of

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00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,420
where we hold the shows. We hold
them in broker heavy communities

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00:21:26,510 --> 00:21:30,020
in the country. And we do have a
pretty large following from

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00:21:30,020 --> 00:21:33,860
brokers. So if you're a lender
who wants to meet brokers, I

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00:21:33,860 --> 00:21:37,130
highly recommend a deBanked
conference and specifically

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00:21:37,130 --> 00:21:37,850
Broker Fair.

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Johny Fernandez: So the next
question is, how can I market my

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00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:42,200
business to brokers?

398
00:21:42,530 --> 00:21:43,730
Sean Murray: Johny I'm loving
these questions.

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00:21:46,580 --> 00:21:47,900
Johny Fernandez: You're a
legend, you know these things.

400
00:21:49,580 --> 00:21:53,210
Sean Murray: Okay, so how can I
market my business to brokers?

401
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,460
That is that what it was? Yeah.
Okay, how can I market my

402
00:21:55,460 --> 00:21:58,970
business to brokers? Okay, so
that's an that's an excellent

403
00:21:58,970 --> 00:22:01,280
question. Because it's the
question that every single

404
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:06,110
lender or funder has, who works
with brokers. It's great that

405
00:22:06,140 --> 00:22:09,890
you have capital. It's great
that you know how to underwrite

406
00:22:10,190 --> 00:22:13,490
but you can't do it without
brokers. And so even if you're

407
00:22:13,490 --> 00:22:16,940
not a sales oriented, and that's
why you're on the funding side,

408
00:22:17,150 --> 00:22:20,270
unfortunately, you still have to
know how to market yourself, you

409
00:22:20,270 --> 00:22:23,870
still have to know how to do
sales, you can't avoid that, by

410
00:22:23,870 --> 00:22:27,110
not being by not being a broker,
even if you're a funder or

411
00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:29,780
lender, you gotta you gotta know
what to do. So where can you,

412
00:22:29,810 --> 00:22:32,510
where can you market your
business? I mean, I would have

413
00:22:32,510 --> 00:22:35,090
to say, honestly, you gotta go
where the brokers are. Yeah.

414
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:40,400
Like hands down, to plug
ourselves is, you know, I have

415
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,490
to because we are probably the
number one sources for where

416
00:22:43,490 --> 00:22:46,430
brokers go for information, or
and to talk with other people.

417
00:22:46,430 --> 00:22:49,790
So if you want to market your
business to brokers, I highly

418
00:22:49,790 --> 00:22:52,520
recommend deBanked.com. That's
where they go for their news,

419
00:22:52,940 --> 00:22:55,490
DailyFunder.com, that's where
they go to talk to each other.

420
00:22:57,710 --> 00:23:00,050
And we could you could do our
newsletters, you can do email

421
00:23:00,050 --> 00:23:02,780
blasts, you can be a sponsor of
our events. You gotta go where

422
00:23:02,780 --> 00:23:05,120
the brokers are. So some people,
you know, they get in their

423
00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:08,690
mind, I'm going to advertise on
Google. And I'm going to do I'm

424
00:23:08,690 --> 00:23:10,910
going to do this and it's going
to be so smart. And I think they

425
00:23:10,910 --> 00:23:13,940
kind of outsmart themselves
because they might be they're

426
00:23:13,970 --> 00:23:17,270
spending money to target an
audience is so broad, that very,

427
00:23:17,330 --> 00:23:19,250
a very small percentage of them
is actually going to be a

428
00:23:19,250 --> 00:23:22,460
broker. Yeah. Right. So if you
want to target just the brokers,

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00:23:23,210 --> 00:23:24,590
we're really the place to do it.

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00:23:26,660 --> 00:23:29,690
Johny Fernandez: The next
question is, what do points on a

431
00:23:29,690 --> 00:23:30,980
deal mean?

432
00:23:30,980 --> 00:23:32,910
Sean Murray: What do points on a
deal mean? Okay. So points on a

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00:23:32,910 --> 00:23:40,140
deal. They're just percentage.
It's percentage points, right?

434
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,770
So if the commission on a deal,
let's say, let's say it's a

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00:23:44,130 --> 00:23:48,870
$100,000 deal that you brokered,
the merchant is getting 100

436
00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:54,390
grand, the commission is 10%.
Hypothetically. Right. So that's

437
00:23:54,480 --> 00:24:01,890
10% of 100,000. Is 10,000. That
10% In this world would be 10

438
00:24:01,890 --> 00:24:07,770
points. Every percentage is a
point. So if you made 5000 on

439
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:12,930
$100,000, deal, you made five
points, you made $10,000 on

440
00:24:12,930 --> 00:24:17,580
$100,000 deal, you made 10
points. And so it's really just

441
00:24:17,580 --> 00:24:20,820
percentage points, and people
like to use the term points.

442
00:24:21,780 --> 00:24:23,130
Johny Fernandez: So percentage.

443
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,070
Sean Murray: It's really just a
percentage. Yeah. Is it the same

444
00:24:26,070 --> 00:24:27,270
in real estate or is it
different?

445
00:24:27,300 --> 00:24:30,390
Johny Fernandez: So it's
percentage, that's like what it

446
00:24:30,390 --> 00:24:36,420
is in real estate. So like to
2.5% of this closing deal is,

447
00:24:36,990 --> 00:24:38,160
you know, what you end up
getting.

448
00:24:39,210 --> 00:24:40,200
Sean Murray: I like points
better.

449
00:24:40,530 --> 00:24:42,450
Johny Fernandez: Sounds, it
sounds a little bit easier.

450
00:24:42,450 --> 00:24:46,290
sounds. It sounds like a like a
gaming system. Like you get five

451
00:24:46,290 --> 00:24:47,910
points, two points. Three
points.

452
00:24:47,970 --> 00:24:49,890
Sean Murray: It does. Yeah, it
does. It does kind of sound that

453
00:24:49,890 --> 00:24:50,220
way.

454
00:24:51,330 --> 00:24:54,090
Johny Fernandez: So the next
question is what is a bankruptcy

455
00:24:54,090 --> 00:24:57,180
dismissal versus a bankruptcy
discharge?

456
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,120
Sean Murray: Okay, getting
technical here.

457
00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:01,260
Johny Fernandez: Yeah, a little
technical.

458
00:25:01,260 --> 00:25:04,120
Sean Murray: Asking the tough
questions now, what is the

459
00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:08,650
bankruptcy dismissal versus a
bankruptcy discharge, I will say

460
00:25:08,650 --> 00:25:13,120
from my my non lawyer
perspective, the reason it's

461
00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:16,150
important to know these things,
whether you're a broker or an

462
00:25:16,150 --> 00:25:19,270
underwriter is because it could
have an impact on the financial

463
00:25:19,270 --> 00:25:23,290
standing of the applicant, or of
the borrower or the customer,

464
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,400
whatever they are at that point
in time. If the bank, all right,

465
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:32,320
so if you are broke, you file
for bankruptcy, right. And then

466
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,440
what essentially is happening
is, you're trying to negotiate

467
00:25:35,470 --> 00:25:39,010
with all of your creditors, for
them to take less than what

468
00:25:39,010 --> 00:25:41,350
they're owed, that's what's
happening in bankruptcy, you

469
00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:43,570
don't have enough to pay
everybody, right. And so you're

470
00:25:43,570 --> 00:25:47,470
going to a formal, organized
legal process for them to all

471
00:25:47,470 --> 00:25:50,530
get something or they're all
kind of, you know, they're all

472
00:25:50,530 --> 00:25:54,790
kind of accepting together, what
they're each going to get, and a

473
00:25:54,790 --> 00:25:58,150
lot of it is based upon what
type of credit they extended to

474
00:25:58,150 --> 00:26:01,870
you. So like the the people who
lent against collateral will be

475
00:26:01,870 --> 00:26:05,110
first and like the unsecured
lenders, like you know, would be

476
00:26:05,140 --> 00:26:11,080
would be last in line. But if
the bankruptcy goes as planned,

477
00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:15,760
and you are truly, you know,
truly so, you know, broke,

478
00:26:16,090 --> 00:26:19,960
right, and you follow all the
rules that are required of you

479
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,870
during the bankruptcy process,
you can get the bankruptcy

480
00:26:22,900 --> 00:26:26,740
discharged, essentially, that
would be a an agreement and

481
00:26:26,740 --> 00:26:30,970
actual agreement for those
lenders to take those creditors

482
00:26:31,150 --> 00:26:35,320
to take less money, right. And
so anything beyond that, you're

483
00:26:35,380 --> 00:26:38,470
you're free and clear, you don't
owe anything more to those

484
00:26:38,470 --> 00:26:41,680
creditors beyond what was
agreed, agreed upon, in that

485
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,850
bankruptcy process. If you are
the lender, that could be a good

486
00:26:45,850 --> 00:26:50,320
thing, because though that
applicant no longer owes any

487
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,590
money to those creditors. On the
flip side, it could indicate

488
00:26:53,590 --> 00:26:56,740
this is the type of person who
leveraged themselves too much,

489
00:26:56,890 --> 00:27:00,490
and is likely to get into
trouble and declare bankruptcy

490
00:27:00,490 --> 00:27:02,920
again, although you have to
wait. You have to wait a certain

491
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,900
period of time before you can
declare bankruptcy again, you

492
00:27:04,900 --> 00:27:07,330
can't just constantly, you can't
just declare bankruptcy every

493
00:27:07,330 --> 00:27:10,480
year. Yeah. But I think the
question was, you know, what's

494
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,580
the difference? So the other the
other side of it is a bankruptcy

495
00:27:12,580 --> 00:27:16,780
dismissal, a bankruptcy
dismissal if you're a broker, or

496
00:27:16,780 --> 00:27:20,860
an underwriter could actually be
worse than a discharge, because

497
00:27:20,860 --> 00:27:25,000
it means that the bankruptcy
process itself have failed.

498
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:30,430
Yeah. For whatever reason, maybe
maybe the the person in

499
00:27:30,430 --> 00:27:34,000
bankruptcy didn't follow the the
rules, right? Maybe they were

500
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,460
hiding money on the side, they
weren't being honest or being

501
00:27:36,460 --> 00:27:39,010
straightforward. Or maybe
they're not actually bankrupt.

502
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,790
Yeah. And they were just trying
to, you know, trying to cut cuts

503
00:27:42,790 --> 00:27:46,810
are creditors out of all the
money that they're making. So a

504
00:27:46,810 --> 00:27:50,380
bankruptcy can be dismissed, can
be dismissed. And the problem

505
00:27:50,380 --> 00:27:54,220
with that is, if you're a
underwriter, you now have to

506
00:27:54,220 --> 00:27:58,450
worry about this particular
applicant, still owing all that

507
00:27:58,450 --> 00:28:03,400
money to their creditors, well,
and not being able to, right,

508
00:28:03,430 --> 00:28:07,990
but not being able to get out of
it. So they are still high risk.

509
00:28:08,020 --> 00:28:10,660
You know, it goes back to what
we were talking about before. If

510
00:28:10,660 --> 00:28:14,080
your applicant had a recently
dismissed bankruptcy, that would

511
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,330
be probably a red flag and
something that would make them

512
00:28:16,330 --> 00:28:19,450
high risk, because they try to
get out of the debt. Yeah. They

513
00:28:19,450 --> 00:28:22,510
failed, they still owe it. Now
they're coming to you. Now you

514
00:28:22,510 --> 00:28:25,360
have to decide if this is the
risk, you know, you you'd want

515
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:25,810
to take.

516
00:28:26,430 --> 00:28:28,770
Johny Fernandez: That's really
good to know. The next question

517
00:28:28,770 --> 00:28:33,030
is in 2015, you wrote an article
that said, should you start an

518
00:28:33,030 --> 00:28:38,820
ISO or an ISO with only $2,000?
And you said, No. Do you still

519
00:28:38,820 --> 00:28:39,600
agree with that?

520
00:28:40,950 --> 00:28:43,440
Sean Murray: So I did write that
article. Yes. Should you start

521
00:28:43,470 --> 00:28:49,440
an ISO with only $2,000? Man,
that was that was a long time

522
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:54,630
ago. So you know, the answer. I
don't think changes. I think, if

523
00:28:54,630 --> 00:29:01,140
anything, I would be more firm
in my no. Okay. Versus 2015. The

524
00:29:01,140 --> 00:29:07,500
reason being is that technology
has come so far, the industry

525
00:29:07,500 --> 00:29:13,530
has gotten so much more
competitive. And good leads more

526
00:29:13,530 --> 00:29:19,770
scarce, right? And $2,000
There's, there's so many things

527
00:29:19,770 --> 00:29:22,800
that go into starting an ISO,
some people think it's just

528
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,360
about I need a phone, I need an
email, and some paper and you

529
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,350
know, boom, I'm an ISO, boom,
you know, I'm a broker now,

530
00:29:31,380 --> 00:29:34,530
right? And that's, that's all
you need. Right? And so the rest

531
00:29:34,530 --> 00:29:38,820
is just relationships, etc. But
it's a lot more than that. Yeah.

532
00:29:39,750 --> 00:29:43,320
You should, you know, it should
be organizing yourself legally,

533
00:29:43,350 --> 00:29:45,960
you know, forming an LLC or
whatever, you know, going

534
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,590
through the practice of forming
an official business that can

535
00:29:49,590 --> 00:29:52,530
cost a couple 1000 bucks, just
just doing putting all the

536
00:29:52,710 --> 00:29:55,980
things in place that you would
need to do legally, you know,

537
00:29:56,070 --> 00:30:00,150
getting a registered agent,
these type of things. Getting a

538
00:30:00,180 --> 00:30:03,210
dedicated business phone number,
possibly getting an office

539
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,420
unless you plan to work from
home. But when it comes down to

540
00:30:06,420 --> 00:30:10,170
it, you're gonna need leads, you
could just cold call random

541
00:30:10,170 --> 00:30:14,460
people, I guess. But you know,
that can be quite tricky because

542
00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:17,700
you have to, you have to comply
with all the, you know, the

543
00:30:17,700 --> 00:30:22,560
telemarketing laws and so forth.
And so you're going to spend

544
00:30:22,590 --> 00:30:27,060
1000s of dollars just on leads
to get off the ground, like, if

545
00:30:27,060 --> 00:30:29,820
you're like, hey, I want to try
these leads, you can't just buy

546
00:30:29,850 --> 00:30:33,000
20 bucks worth, they're gonna
ask you to, they're gonna ask

547
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,050
you for like $500, $1,000,
$2,000 worth to try a batch and

548
00:30:37,050 --> 00:30:40,410
they don't work. Well guess what
if $2,000 was the whole starting

549
00:30:40,410 --> 00:30:43,860
budget for an ISO, you're done.
So you're gonna need a lot more

550
00:30:43,860 --> 00:30:46,680
than $2,000. So my answer is,
should you start an ISO with

551
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,520
$2,000 2021 answer is definitely
no. And I guess the answer in

552
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,290
2015 was also no.

553
00:30:52,650 --> 00:30:55,620
Johny Fernandez: And I think to
your point for nowadays, to

554
00:30:55,620 --> 00:31:00,870
start an ISO, know your stuff,
be ready to buy leads, and they

555
00:31:00,870 --> 00:31:05,070
may not work out. And just make
sure you're in the know when it

556
00:31:05,070 --> 00:31:08,040
comes to the legal stuff,
because I think that's something

557
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,340
we talked about, a lot of people
think that they're never gonna

558
00:31:11,340 --> 00:31:14,490
get sued. And like, all you need
is a pen and a paper and you're

559
00:31:14,490 --> 00:31:15,300
in business.

560
00:31:15,330 --> 00:31:18,300
Sean Murray: Yeah, and you know,
the other side of it is, okay,

561
00:31:18,300 --> 00:31:23,040
so you're an ISO you have no
money, and you're like, I can

562
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,160
still navigate this, Sean is
wrong, right? I'll tell you,

563
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,440
I'll tell you where they're
gonna get you, I'm going to tell

564
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,480
you where they're gonna get you,
you're gonna sign up with a

565
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,810
lender or a funding company, and
they don't know who you are.

566
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,230
You're Joe Schmo, you work by
yourself from your home, and

567
00:31:37,230 --> 00:31:40,260
they're gonna give you a
contract that's 100%, one sided,

568
00:31:40,650 --> 00:31:43,680
that's designed for all their
deals, all the deals you

569
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:48,270
generate, to eventually become
fully theirs. So that's what's

570
00:31:48,270 --> 00:31:50,880
gonna happen, no matter what,
you're gonna get a one sided

571
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,640
contract, and guess what you're
going to need, from the very

572
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,640
beginning, you're going to need
a lawyer to redline that

573
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,430
agreement to protect your
interests. Because here you are

574
00:31:59,460 --> 00:32:02,610
bootstrapping yourself up from
the very beginning, saying you

575
00:32:02,610 --> 00:32:06,030
can do it, and then you get
scammed, not scam, taken

576
00:32:06,030 --> 00:32:09,420
advantage of taking advantage
of, you know, by the lender or

577
00:32:09,420 --> 00:32:12,180
funder who knows they can do it,
and is also protecting

578
00:32:12,180 --> 00:32:13,830
themselves. You know, what I
mean, they want to put

579
00:32:13,830 --> 00:32:17,190
themselves in the best position,
it makes sense, I get it, but

580
00:32:17,220 --> 00:32:20,640
you're gonna have to spend some
money, possibly $2,000 on a

581
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,090
lawyer, just redlining the
agreement, just to get started,

582
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,910
right? And if there's any
disagreements, how much how much

583
00:32:26,910 --> 00:32:28,290
more is that going to cost,
right?

584
00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:29,760
Johny Fernandez: And lawyers are
expensive.

585
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,360
Sean Murray: They're expensive.
We I see it on DailyFunder all

586
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,110
the time, someone says that the
lender or funder broker said,

587
00:32:36,110 --> 00:32:38,210
the lender of funder didn't live
up to what they said they were

588
00:32:38,210 --> 00:32:42,050
going to do. They did this, but
my contract says this, what

589
00:32:42,050 --> 00:32:45,800
should I do? And the answer is,
if you've already appealed to

590
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,520
them, and they haven't done what
you wanted to, your only

591
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,580
recourse at that point is going
to be to sue them. And if you

592
00:32:52,580 --> 00:32:55,250
don't have the resources, you
know what I mean, to do it or

593
00:32:55,250 --> 00:32:58,130
even make them feel like you can
well, you are going to be

594
00:32:58,340 --> 00:33:03,230
screwed. The ISO is $2,000. And
that's it is fresh meat for the

595
00:33:03,230 --> 00:33:04,640
kill for a lender.

596
00:33:05,330 --> 00:33:07,910
Johny Fernandez: But that's good
to know. Sean, thanks so much.

597
00:33:07,940 --> 00:33:12,560
You are so wealth of knowledge
in you in here.

598
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:13,370
Sean Murray: In there.

599
00:33:14,140 --> 00:33:17,590
Johny Fernandez: Not in here.
No, but yeah, no, I appreciate

600
00:33:17,590 --> 00:33:20,260
that. Because I feel and I
believe, you know, what we've

601
00:33:20,260 --> 00:33:22,690
been seeing is that people are
genuinely interested in these

602
00:33:22,690 --> 00:33:25,300
videos. And just getting to know
the nitty gritty of the

603
00:33:25,300 --> 00:33:27,880
business. You know, how to
start, how much do I need to

604
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,120
start? How am I going to get
screwed over? Or what am I going

605
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,040
to get screwed over? Because
it's going to happen, but it's

606
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:38,170
covering all your bases. So I
think, and he doesn't know what

607
00:33:38,170 --> 00:33:42,640
I'm about to do this, is if you
have any questions, let us know.

608
00:33:43,750 --> 00:33:45,430
Sean Murray: Yeah, I didn't know
where I don't know where you're

609
00:33:45,430 --> 00:33:47,950
good where you're going with
that one. I thought maybe you

610
00:33:47,950 --> 00:33:48,850
we're gonna propose to me.

611
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:53,680
Johny Fernandez: No. But if you
have any questions, let us know.

612
00:33:54,220 --> 00:33:56,350
Because we definitely want to
make sure we answer your

613
00:33:56,350 --> 00:33:59,740
questions that you know, people
have, and if you have it at

614
00:33:59,740 --> 00:34:03,340
home, then someone else has it.
And then other people have it.

615
00:34:03,370 --> 00:34:08,020
And then we just end up figuring
out a solution to bring people

616
00:34:08,020 --> 00:34:08,530
answers.

617
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,960
Sean Murray: Yeah, you can ask,
you can ask Johny and Johny,

618
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,450
will you know, will pass along
the question or maybe he'll

619
00:34:13,450 --> 00:34:16,120
answer himself, you know, it
depends. Or maybe it's both,

620
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,870
right. You can look Johny up on
on social media.

621
00:34:19,870 --> 00:34:22,000
Johny Fernandez: LinkedIn,
Twitter, Instagram email me,

622
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:22,480
etc.

623
00:34:22,510 --> 00:34:24,070
Sean Murray: If you don't want
to talk to me, I won't be

624
00:34:24,070 --> 00:34:26,410
offended. It's okay. You can
reach out to Johnny, I

625
00:34:26,410 --> 00:34:32,800
understand it better looking at
the two of us. This, is this

626
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,510
where the proposal comes now?
Okay.

627
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,888
Johny Fernandez: But yeah, but
also to learn about our, like

628
00:34:38,946 --> 00:34:41,768
the latest updates on our
website, you can go to

629
00:34:41,827 --> 00:34:45,414
DailyFunder.com. You can check
us out on Facebook, Instagram,

630
00:34:45,472 --> 00:34:48,882
Twitter, or LinkedIn, we're all
we are on all social media

631
00:34:48,941 --> 00:34:52,586
platforms. And something that
Sean stressed out is if you want

632
00:34:52,645 --> 00:34:56,173
to meet other brokers, Broker
Fair, that's the way to do it.

633
00:34:56,232 --> 00:34:59,935
We still have some spots left,
December 6. It's gonna be great.

634
00:34:59,994 --> 00:35:03,581
It's gonna be huge. It's gonna
be the place to be if you're a

635
00:35:03,639 --> 00:35:07,461
broker or a lender, and you want
to build those relationships and

636
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,106
network, this is the place to do
it because it's hard to like

637
00:35:11,165 --> 00:35:14,457
meet other people other than
online. And I think at this

638
00:35:14,516 --> 00:35:17,808
point, people want to meet
people in person and pass out

639
00:35:17,867 --> 00:35:21,512
the business card and, you know,
just network. Yeah. So that's

640
00:35:21,571 --> 00:35:25,216
definitely the place to do it.
And yeah, that's pretty much it

641
00:35:25,275 --> 00:35:26,040
for us today.

642
00:35:26,940 --> 00:35:28,605
Sean Murray: All right. Well,
thanks for tuning in and

643
00:35:28,646 --> 00:35:30,920
listening to the latest
lightning round. I'm Sean Murray

644
00:35:30,961 --> 00:35:31,530
from deBanked.

645
00:35:31,530 --> 00:35:33,540
And I'm Johnny Fernandez. And
we'll see you guys next time.