00:00.930 --> 00:03.420 Sean Murray: Hello, I'm Sean Murray at deBanked TV. 00:03.480 --> 00:05.490 Johny Fernandez: And I'm Johny Fernandez. And thank you guys so 00:05.490 --> 00:08.970 much for joining us today, Sean. Happy Monday. How's your day 00:08.970 --> 00:09.720 been so far? 00:10.830 --> 00:11.610 Sean Murray: Can't complain. 00:11.790 --> 00:13.320 Johny Fernandez: Nice. Me neither. 00:13.440 --> 00:14.490 Sean Murray: All right, good. 00:14.520 --> 00:16.650 Johny Fernandez: Let's get straight straight to it. So 00:16.800 --> 00:19.350 we're going to talk about three different topics. And they're 00:19.350 --> 00:22.890 very interesting topics that I think could be used for, you 00:22.890 --> 00:26.280 know, people in the industry, and it could be very helpful for 00:26.280 --> 00:30.390 them. So the first one we're gonna talk about is phone 00:30.390 --> 00:32.370 etiquette. So this is. 00:32.370 --> 00:33.749 Sean Murray: Phone etiquette. Okay, that's a good one. 00:33.749 --> 00:36.600 Johny Fernandez: That's a good one. This is something that I 00:36.600 --> 00:41.490 learned when I had a job as a telecom communicator. And I was 00:41.490 --> 00:45.330 picking up phones. And it really taught me the importance of 00:45.330 --> 00:49.470 number one, how to answer a phone, how to leave a voicemail 00:49.470 --> 00:53.550 and what to do to prepare for a phone call, which we think is 00:53.550 --> 00:57.180 very simple, but it's actually not. And it's I realize that 00:57.180 --> 01:00.720 people in the industry, you know, whether it's, you know, 01:00.750 --> 01:04.410 merchant cash advance real estate, for some reason, phone 01:04.410 --> 01:08.370 calls, you know, that is a key indicator of why some people 01:08.370 --> 01:13.140 don't do well with clients or don't get like certain accounts, 01:13.320 --> 01:15.930 you know, don't get in certain leads is because of their phone 01:15.930 --> 01:20.250 call ability. And it's a very interesting thing, because a lot 01:20.250 --> 01:23.220 of people I realized get nervous when they have to make phone 01:23.220 --> 01:27.240 calls, or they don't know what to say. And I think that needs 01:27.240 --> 01:29.640 to be addressed with people in the industry. 01:30.180 --> 01:32.070 Sean Murray: Yeah, no, you're definitely right about people 01:32.070 --> 01:35.460 getting nervous. I've encountered many people where 01:35.610 --> 01:38.430 they were eager for the phone call to end or they would hope 01:38.430 --> 01:42.000 that people didn't pick up. Yeah. So let me ask you, Johny, 01:42.060 --> 01:45.360 cause you said you worked in at some sort of telecommunications 01:45.360 --> 01:48.870 before. What kind of tips on etiquette could you give us? 01:48.870 --> 01:52.350 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, so I think the first thing to realize 01:52.350 --> 01:55.620 is when you're making a phone call, especially to leads, you 01:55.620 --> 01:59.190 know, in my jobs, we were trying to get people from an alumni 01:59.190 --> 02:04.560 base to donate and to convince them pretty much to get our 02:04.560 --> 02:09.300 product, the first thing to do is have a script. And sometimes, 02:09.330 --> 02:12.630 you know, you can say verbatim, but I always like to personalize 02:12.630 --> 02:15.990 my scripts. Because you know, whether it's making a real 02:15.990 --> 02:18.660 estate call, or whether it was for this job that I had, or 02:18.660 --> 02:21.450 whether it's for leads with MCAs, it's really important to 02:21.450 --> 02:23.130 customize your script, because number one, you don't want to 02:23.130 --> 02:25.320 sound like a robot. And the second thing you want to sound 02:25.320 --> 02:28.500 like yourself when you're talking on the phone. So it's 02:28.500 --> 02:30.390 really important to have a script, and even if it's just 02:30.390 --> 02:32.820 bullet points, but know that these are the points we're gonna 02:32.820 --> 02:36.840 get through, when it comes to making this phone call. That's 02:36.840 --> 02:40.320 really important. And then it kind of gives you a game plan. I 02:40.320 --> 02:43.080 like to have game plans, and it gives you a game plan of what 02:43.080 --> 02:47.130 we're going to talk about. Okay. That's one of the first things I 02:47.130 --> 02:49.440 would definitely advise others to do. 02:49.750 --> 02:54.970 Sean Murray: Okay. And, you know, what happens if people are 02:55.030 --> 02:58.360 angry on the call? Are there any ways to kind of just defuse the 02:58.360 --> 02:59.140 situation? 02:59.140 --> 03:01.460 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, so I think when people are angry, and 03:02.240 --> 03:05.780 you know, they want to hang up, or they say, all types of 03:05.780 --> 03:09.680 different words to you, you have to remember that that's expected 03:09.680 --> 03:12.230 and it's not personal, they don't know you, they don't know 03:12.350 --> 03:15.200 your life, they don't know what you look like, this is just 03:15.200 --> 03:19.460 based off of a phone call. And these people don't, you don't 03:19.460 --> 03:22.310 know how their days gone, or you don't know, you know, you might 03:22.310 --> 03:25.580 have caught them at a bad time. So prepare for that. But don't 03:25.580 --> 03:27.980 take it personal, that's one thing you have to remember is to 03:27.980 --> 03:31.730 not take it personal, because I feel like a lot of people hang 03:31.730 --> 03:34.370 up the phone. And if it went bad, they take it very personal, 03:34.370 --> 03:37.220 and they bring it with them, you know, to their house and 03:37.220 --> 03:39.410 emotionally, they're just drained. And they really just 03:39.560 --> 03:43.460 focus on this one thing that happened that this phone call is 03:43.460 --> 03:47.990 probably anywhere from a minute to five minutes, you know, and 03:48.020 --> 03:50.660 at the end of the day, it's just a phone call. So you cannot take 03:50.660 --> 03:53.660 it personal and it also you know, your demeanor, how you 03:53.660 --> 03:58.580 speak, you know, that will also kind of sway and guide this 03:58.580 --> 04:01.490 conversation. So you have to also take into consideration if 04:01.490 --> 04:04.910 you are getting cursed at if you are, you know getting screamed 04:04.910 --> 04:08.750 at you have to take a deep breath and either meet them 04:08.750 --> 04:12.800 halfway and try to simply be very empathetic with them. But 04:12.800 --> 04:16.100 also realize that sometimes a phone calls just not gonna go 04:16.100 --> 04:17.690 well and just end it. 04:18.170 --> 04:21.230 Sean Murray: Okay, now what happens? What happens if they 04:21.230 --> 04:24.260 really get under your skin? Is it best to kind of take a step 04:24.260 --> 04:27.680 back? Or is it ever appropriate to kind of, you know, kind of 04:28.310 --> 04:29.900 hit them back with with some? 04:30.140 --> 04:32.630 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, great question. So something you have 04:32.630 --> 04:37.040 to remember is that you have to realize that sometimes taking a 04:37.040 --> 04:39.890 step back because you don't know what this person has gone 04:39.890 --> 04:44.660 through, you know, is always my preferred method because you can 04:44.660 --> 04:51.440 call them another day and their tone attitude can be completely 04:51.440 --> 04:56.810 different because they had a bad day, and you may win them over 04:56.810 --> 05:00.140 that second phone call. And if you curse them out, and are 05:00.140 --> 05:02.390 nasty with them, they will always remember that they will 05:02.390 --> 05:07.100 always say and pretty much memorize that number. That guy 05:07.100 --> 05:11.240 cursed me out from XY and Z company. 05:11.330 --> 05:14.030 Sean Murray: So you're, you're sabotaging yourself in a way 05:14.030 --> 05:16.160 because they're just they could just be having a bad day. 05:16.190 --> 05:16.460 Johny Fernandez: Correct. 05:16.460 --> 05:18.350 Sean Murray: And now you've responded in kind, but now 05:18.350 --> 05:20.900 you've ruined any possibility of salvaging it later. 05:20.930 --> 05:21.500 Johny Fernandez: Correct. 05:21.680 --> 05:23.570 Sean Murray: So let me ask you, cause we were talking about this 05:23.570 --> 05:27.290 a little earlier, there's a lot of different generational 05:27.530 --> 05:31.010 approaches to phone calls. For sure, some people don't even 05:31.010 --> 05:33.920 like to call it all they want to text and stuff. But we were 05:33.920 --> 05:35.330 talking about voicemails. 05:35.360 --> 05:35.690 Johny Fernandez: Correct. 05:35.690 --> 05:37.520 Sean Murray: How important is it to leave a voicemail? And are 05:37.520 --> 05:39.500 there any tips for an effective voicemail? 05:39.540 --> 05:41.340 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, so that's a really good question. I know a 05:41.340 --> 05:44.220 lot of people, you know, millennials, specifically, a lot 05:44.220 --> 05:48.000 of them don't like to do just a cold call, or just pick up the 05:48.000 --> 05:51.270 phone, for some reason, you know, millennials, and the next 05:51.270 --> 05:54.390 generation after that they're very into the phone, into 05:54.390 --> 05:57.990 texting and hiding behind the keyboard. But I think and I'm a 05:57.990 --> 06:01.470 firm believer that when you leave a voicemail, when you make 06:01.470 --> 06:04.620 a phone call, it's gonna be different, because we're also we 06:04.620 --> 06:07.410 are also dealing with another generation of people that don't 06:07.410 --> 06:10.500 know how to text, don't hide behind keyboards. And there's 06:10.500 --> 06:13.170 something about leaving a good voicemail that makes all the 06:13.170 --> 06:15.630 difference in the world. I'm a firm believer, when you're 06:15.630 --> 06:18.900 leaving a voicemail, keep it short. And be very clear, say 06:18.900 --> 06:22.020 your name, your purpose of the phone call, and then say the 06:22.020 --> 06:25.230 number for them to reach you at and say that number twice, 06:25.290 --> 06:28.140 because sometimes people don't really hear or they're not 06:28.140 --> 06:30.990 paying attention to the first time you give that number to 06:30.990 --> 06:34.200 that first number. So say it twice, repeat it. And it's okay. 06:34.200 --> 06:37.830 You don't look like an idiot. I do this all the time. My example 06:37.830 --> 06:41.250 is, hey, this, this is kind of how it would go when I leave a 06:41.250 --> 06:44.220 voicemail. My name is Johny Fernandez, I'm giving you a call 06:44.220 --> 06:48.120 for X, Y and Z purpose. If you can give me a call back at and I 06:48.120 --> 06:53.040 say the phone number 212-222-3333. That number again, 06:53.190 --> 06:58.170 212-222-33333. I hope to hear from you soon. And make sure you 06:58.170 --> 07:01.080 hang up properly. That's something that I realized at his 07:01.080 --> 07:04.890 job. When I had years ago when I was making phone calls. 07:05.070 --> 07:08.370 Sometimes you don't hang up the phone and you think you do. And 07:08.370 --> 07:11.670 that voicemail will pick up everything afterwards. So if 07:11.670 --> 07:14.280 you're tired, and you say something, like you hang up the 07:14.280 --> 07:16.920 phone, and it's still recording and you say something, man, I'm 07:16.920 --> 07:20.550 so tired, they're gonna hear that. So imagine like, I'm not 07:20.550 --> 07:23.550 gonna call that guy back. Yeah. Heck, no, I'm not gonna call him 07:23.550 --> 07:26.310 back. So make sure you hang up properly. And then take a deep 07:26.310 --> 07:28.320 breath and move on. Go on to the next one. 07:29.250 --> 07:30.690 Sean Murray: Those are great tips. Appreciate that. 07:30.690 --> 07:32.820 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, no problem. It's, it's something 07:32.820 --> 07:36.930 I'm really passionate about. Because I realize not everyone 07:36.930 --> 07:39.300 knows how to make phone calls. And it's something that I 07:39.300 --> 07:41.790 really, it really caught my attention the last two years, 07:42.180 --> 07:46.710 that these simple tips will help other people. And they're very 07:46.710 --> 07:50.430 simple. But for many people, it's hard. And they don't have 07:50.430 --> 07:55.080 that confidence and the comfort to make a phone call. Yeah. And 07:55.080 --> 07:57.870 something I will also say is people pick up on your tone of 07:57.870 --> 08:01.080 voice. So make sure when you're making a phone call, make sure 08:01.080 --> 08:03.480 you know why you're making that phone call. And make sure you're 08:03.480 --> 08:06.630 confident about it. Make sure you know you pick up and you 08:06.630 --> 08:08.820 know you speak with confidence because people are gonna pick up 08:09.090 --> 08:11.670 when you're not confident or when you're having a bad day or 08:11.670 --> 08:15.780 your tone of voice. And that's gonna make the whole a massive 08:15.780 --> 08:18.090 difference in whether they want to do business with you or not. 08:19.020 --> 08:20.730 Sean Murray: That's a really good advice. Yeah, that could 08:20.730 --> 08:23.400 definitely be used across any any industry, I imagine. 08:23.400 --> 08:25.790 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. And I think this is I used to do this. 08:26.210 --> 08:29.540 When I was first just for interviews in general, whether 08:29.540 --> 08:33.200 it was in my reporting career in my real estate career. When I 08:33.200 --> 08:36.350 made phone calls, sometimes I would dress the part cause when 08:36.350 --> 08:39.140 you dress a certain way, it gives you confidence. So when 08:39.140 --> 08:42.860 you put on a tie, a nice suit, even if it's just for like a job 08:42.860 --> 08:46.220 interview, if it's a big account, you have you feel good, 08:46.280 --> 08:49.460 you're gonna sound good. That's I give that advice all the time. 08:49.460 --> 08:52.580 Like dress the part, don't make phone calls with the t shirt and 08:52.580 --> 08:55.130 some basketball shorts. Dress the part. Feel good about 08:55.130 --> 08:55.580 yourself. 08:55.580 --> 08:58.360 Sean Murray: Yeah. So especially, you know, that would 08:58.360 --> 09:01.300 have been good advice to have heated during COVID When 09:01.300 --> 09:02.350 Johny Fernandez: And I think one thing and this is very, very 09:02.350 --> 09:04.300 everyone was working from home. Yeah, I know. I personally do do 09:04.300 --> 09:08.110 worse when I am essentially sitting in my pajamas trying to 09:08.110 --> 09:08.140 weird but I'm just gonna share this with everyone that taking 09:08.140 --> 09:10.990 take an important business call. You know what I mean, I was one 09:10.990 --> 09:13.960 of those people. And I didn't know it was really a thing. But 09:14.080 --> 09:16.960 you know, I took a shower and got dressed for work. Like I was 09:16.960 --> 09:19.360 going to work every single day of the pandemic. Yeah, same. I 09:19.360 --> 09:19.440 off your shoes is a massive game changer when you get home. And 09:19.440 --> 09:22.810 didn't like apparently a lot of people just wore their pajamas. 09:22.840 --> 09:25.330 Yeah. You know, the whole time sweatpants for like over a year 09:25.420 --> 09:27.850 I never even thought of doing that. Because for me, it would 09:27.850 --> 09:30.430 have been like everyday would have felt like a Sunday, if I 09:30.430 --> 09:32.860 was just kind of wearing sweatpants and a T shirt. So 09:33.160 --> 09:35.110 every morning I would wake up I would just go through my normal 09:35.110 --> 09:38.020 routine of. Same. get dressed for work. And then then my phone 09:38.020 --> 09:42.100 calls and everything else feels so normal. Yeah, because I even 09:42.100 --> 09:45.130 if I wasn't, I wasn't always wearing a suit or anything. But 09:45.160 --> 09:47.230 you know, I was just how I would how I would come to you know, I 09:47.230 --> 09:50.530 wear a collared shirt. I would like I'm coming here. And it 09:50.530 --> 09:53.020 definitely gave me a lot more confidence. Yeah. As if you 09:53.020 --> 09:55.120 know, businesses carrying out like normal. I'm just not I'm 09:55.120 --> 09:56.770 just not in the office right now. You know. 10:07.240 --> 10:09.730 when you're making phone calls, I read something and it's 10:09.730 --> 10:12.400 scientifically proven that when you take off your shoes that you 10:12.400 --> 10:16.060 work with, for some reason your body registers that it's time to 10:16.060 --> 10:19.600 relax, it's time to, to like not do anything, it's time to just 10:19.600 --> 10:23.830 chill, by taking off your shoes. And I realized that when I take 10:23.830 --> 10:27.610 off my shoes after a day after a day at the office, for some 10:27.610 --> 10:32.080 reason, once the shoes are off, mentally I'm checked out. 10:33.250 --> 10:34.960 Sean Murray: All right, so yeah, you gotta you gotta be out, you 10:34.960 --> 10:35.920 got to keep the shoes on. 10:35.920 --> 10:37.960 Johny Fernandez: Keep your shoes, like if you're doing 10:37.960 --> 10:40.720 business stay in the game. Yeah. Cause you don't want to slack 10:40.720 --> 10:40.900 off. 10:40.900 --> 10:42.940 Sean Murray: Because once the shoes come, comes off, it's 10:42.970 --> 10:43.330 over. 10:43.330 --> 10:45.010 Johny Fernandez: It's over. And I haven't share this with you. 10:45.010 --> 10:47.680 But I'm sharing this with you now it's something that it's 10:47.680 --> 10:50.740 scientifically proven when you take off your shoes after a long 10:50.890 --> 10:53.260 of work for some reason you just check off mentally. 10:54.010 --> 10:55.510 Sean Murray: Okay, that's great information. 10:55.510 --> 10:58.989 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. So that's my phone etiquette. Keep your 10:59.067 --> 11:03.719 shoes on and make good phone calls. But I think I think this 11:03.797 --> 11:08.605 is an interesting segue for our next topic. You know, being in 11:08.682 --> 11:12.870 the MCA business and the alternative finance business, 11:12.947 --> 11:17.445 there's a lot of terms. But something I've seen a lot come 11:17.522 --> 11:22.485 up pop up, you know whether it's on the DailyFunder, DailyFunder 11:22.563 --> 11:27.448 or on deBanked is, ISO I S O, so Sean, walk me through and walk 11:27.525 --> 11:30.240 us through what is an I S O or ISO? 11:30.240 --> 11:34.740 Sean Murray: Yeah, so that's a great question. An I S O, or ISO 11:34.770 --> 11:38.670 stands for independent sales organization, it's the term that 11:38.670 --> 11:42.390 comes from the payments industry. And that's because the 11:42.420 --> 11:44.850 the payments industry is very decentralized. And that if you 11:44.850 --> 11:48.300 sign up to accept credit cards, you are typically not working 11:48.300 --> 11:51.630 with the actual bank that's gonna process it, you're working 11:51.630 --> 11:55.170 with a middleman, who's going to set you up and then kind of be 11:55.170 --> 11:57.540 your customer service in some way shape, or form and is gonna 11:57.540 --> 12:00.090 sell you the equipment that you need to use. And that's where 12:00.090 --> 12:03.240 the term independent sales organization came from. Because 12:03.240 --> 12:06.090 they were an independent office, they weren't, they weren't 12:06.090 --> 12:09.960 actually the processor at the end. And that could be good 12:09.960 --> 12:12.900 because they could, they could set you up with a processor that 12:12.900 --> 12:15.450 would give you the best rates and terms for the type of 12:15.450 --> 12:19.050 business that you had, like if you were selling like tickets on 12:19.050 --> 12:23.940 the internet, versus if you were selling food at a cafe, you're 12:23.940 --> 12:26.790 gonna need to use the right credit card processor for the 12:26.790 --> 12:29.820 risk that you do. So that's where the that's where the term 12:29.820 --> 12:33.480 comes from. Oka. It got carried over into this small business 12:33.480 --> 12:38.010 finance world. So now you hear I S O and ISO all the time in 12:38.010 --> 12:40.860 small business finance, and you probably also hear the word 12:40.890 --> 12:46.830 broker. They're the exact same I S O, ISO, broker, all the exact 12:46.830 --> 12:50.880 same thing. There's no difference. The reason we hear I 12:50.880 --> 12:53.880 S O and ISO a lot is because those folks came from the 12:53.880 --> 12:57.570 payments era of small business finance, they came from the old 12:57.570 --> 13:01.650 fashion MCA world, and they just carried that term for it, the 13:01.650 --> 13:04.200 new generation when they got into the business, and they're 13:04.200 --> 13:07.680 like, well, if I'm gonna work with independent people and 13:07.680 --> 13:11.940 companies that are going to refer these customers to me, 13:12.240 --> 13:15.090 well, I'm just going to call them a broker, right? Cause we 13:15.090 --> 13:20.100 have brokers in real estate and, and mortgages and, and stocks, 13:20.100 --> 13:24.180 right? So it's a pretty natural term to use, broker. And so the 13:24.180 --> 13:27.720 term broker kind of became part of the common lexicon or 13:27.720 --> 13:30.000 whatever. And so if you're out there wondering, what's the 13:30.000 --> 13:33.660 difference between I S O, ISO broker, there's no difference at 13:33.660 --> 13:34.530 all and. 13:34.590 --> 13:38.130 Johny Fernandez: So to clarify, if you see the word I S O, if 13:38.130 --> 13:40.110 you see the word broker, they mean the same. 13:40.140 --> 13:40.830 Sean Murray: They mean the same. 13:40.830 --> 13:43.050 Johny Fernandez: And they're used in sentences but it pretty 13:43.050 --> 13:44.520 much, it's the same thing. 13:44.520 --> 13:48.530 Sean Murray: It's the exact same thing and I have long changed 13:48.530 --> 13:52.610 over I started under the ISO ISO I called ISO I'm gonna call ISO 13:52.610 --> 13:56.510 ISO terminology. That was the terminology I, you know, I grew 13:56.510 --> 13:59.570 up with in the industry, and then, you know, broker just 13:59.570 --> 14:03.830 makes a lot more sense. Yeah. You know, what is a broker? 14:03.830 --> 14:06.680 Maybe it's good to just point out what a broker is, a broker 14:06.680 --> 14:12.230 is essentially a middleman. Yeah. The broker is independent, 14:12.290 --> 14:15.320 like the independent sales organization, terminology still 14:15.320 --> 14:18.350 applies, because a broker is independent. And I think it's 14:18.350 --> 14:22.160 important to know that because the broker, although they may 14:22.190 --> 14:25.130 seem like they are representing the funding source of a lending 14:25.130 --> 14:27.950 source, they're actually representing themselves, and 14:27.950 --> 14:31.610 they're just referring the customer to the lender or the 14:31.610 --> 14:35.480 funder. They're an actual independent entity. And this 14:35.480 --> 14:38.420 kind of distinction can get lost with the customer because they 14:38.420 --> 14:42.170 might think it's all one in the same because a broker may or may 14:42.170 --> 14:47.420 not charge their own fee to the end user to the to the to the 14:47.450 --> 14:50.900 merchant, that's borrowing money or you know, engaging in a in an 14:50.900 --> 14:54.590 MCA transaction. So, it's a good question to ask for the customer 14:54.590 --> 14:58.370 is, are you a broker? You know, are you the the actual funding 14:58.370 --> 15:01.970 source? It makes a difference. And part of that is because 15:01.970 --> 15:05.630 brokers typically work on commission. Yeah. Like any other 15:05.630 --> 15:10.670 industry. And so that can add to the cost of the product. Okay. 15:10.790 --> 15:14.240 And so that's, that's like one that's one thing to like, really 15:14.240 --> 15:18.140 keep in mind, although working direct doesn't always mean that 15:18.140 --> 15:20.870 it's cheaper than working with a broker. Because if you're 15:20.870 --> 15:23.570 working directly with a lender or a funder, that lender or 15:23.570 --> 15:26.930 funder is only gonna have their terms and products to offer. 15:26.960 --> 15:29.090 Yeah. Right. Or as the broker could say, that's great. But I 15:29.090 --> 15:30.440 That's good to know, thanks for sharing. Awesome. And speaking 15:30.440 --> 15:33.290 know another lender of funder who can do it cheaper. And even 15:33.290 --> 15:35.660 when you add my commission on, it's still a better deal for the 15:35.660 --> 15:40.040 customer, right? So there are pros and cons to all that. Also, 15:40.220 --> 15:43.550 lenders and funders typically need their own salespeople. 15:43.790 --> 15:46.610 Okay. You can't just call up an underwriter and say, give me a 15:46.610 --> 15:49.430 loan, right? You need to actually talk to one of your 15:49.430 --> 15:52.190 sales representatives, typically, if you're gonna get 15:52.220 --> 15:55.910 funded by that company, sales agents who represent lenders and 15:55.910 --> 16:00.350 funders often typically get paid a commission. So even if you're 16:00.380 --> 16:03.680 working direct with the funder or the lender, it doesn't mean 16:03.770 --> 16:05.900 that it's going to be cheaper than working with the broker, 16:05.960 --> 16:08.210 because you got to assume the salesperson working for the 16:08.210 --> 16:12.920 lender or the funder also needs to get paid. So sometimes, 16:12.950 --> 16:15.230 sometimes they'll get paid a commission that's equal to what 16:15.230 --> 16:18.320 the broker would get. And so the cost difference between the two, 16:18.410 --> 16:20.600 and I'm just talking about broadly, this isn't always the 16:20.600 --> 16:24.170 case. But the cost difference between going to the broker and 16:24.170 --> 16:26.180 working with directly the funder, they could actually be 16:26.180 --> 16:29.300 exactly the same. Yeah. Because some salesperson needs to get 16:29.300 --> 16:32.480 paid at the end of the day for bringing the deal to them. But 16:32.930 --> 16:35.060 if you're out there wondering if you're always wondering, what is 16:35.060 --> 16:38.630 a what is an ISO? What is an ISO? And how does that compare 16:38.630 --> 16:40.490 to a broker? It's all the same. 16:44.900 --> 16:49.250 of ISOs, and brokers, this will get us into our next topic, is 16:49.820 --> 16:53.210 being a business owner being in the business, any business, 16:53.420 --> 16:56.990 there's always a risk for a lawsuit. So let's talk a little 16:57.050 --> 17:00.890 a little bit about that when you know, you are a broker, you you 17:00.890 --> 17:05.330 have your own business here in the industry, the risk of being 17:05.330 --> 17:11.720 sued. What does that look like and what exactly is the risk 17:11.870 --> 17:13.760 when you jump into the business? 17:13.760 --> 17:17.170 Yeah, that's a really good question. So this kind of feeds 17:17.170 --> 17:20.110 into being an independent, you know, sales office independent 17:20.110 --> 17:23.110 operator, is that you may operate under the impression 17:23.110 --> 17:25.690 that you're now removed from the liability if something goes 17:25.690 --> 17:31.120 wrong. Yeah. If the merchant has some sort of problem with the 17:31.120 --> 17:33.850 funder, or the lender, you're like, well, that's between you. 17:33.940 --> 17:36.580 I was just the broker. I'm independent. You know what I 17:36.580 --> 17:40.810 mean, my hands are clean in this deal. Don't blame me. But that's 17:40.810 --> 17:44.410 not always how it works out. Yeah. Sometimes when disputes 17:44.410 --> 17:50.500 arise between the merchant and the funding source, the broker 17:51.010 --> 17:56.830 unwittingly could be could be viewed as liable. And that might 17:56.830 --> 17:59.620 be because the merchant doesn't know that they're not the same. 17:59.740 --> 18:01.990 Yeah. You know what I mean they think it's all one in the same. 18:02.020 --> 18:04.330 Yeah. You know, I talked to this person, they referred me to 18:04.330 --> 18:08.830 here. And it didn't go the way I thought and so I'm mad at all of 18:08.830 --> 18:12.790 you. Yeah. And so if it results in some type of legal dispute, 18:12.790 --> 18:15.880 maybe maybe there is a lawsuit. Yeah. They just name everybody. 18:15.940 --> 18:19.420 Yeah. As like co defendants, right. And here, you were this 18:19.420 --> 18:22.060 independent broker, minding your own business, you know, you 18:22.060 --> 18:24.310 weren't the lender, you weren't the funder, all of a sudden, 18:24.310 --> 18:28.630 you're a co defendant in a lawsuit. This is not actually 18:28.630 --> 18:32.320 not that uncommon. Yeah. It's a real risk that people need to be 18:32.320 --> 18:34.750 mindful of, if they get into this industry. 18:34.780 --> 18:38.500 Johny Fernandez: So let me ask you this financially, if you 18:38.500 --> 18:41.320 have to go through something like this, and let's say, you 18:41.320 --> 18:44.650 know, you don't have the money to pay for this. What have you 18:44.650 --> 18:48.700 seen other people do to kind of figure out and go about a 18:48.700 --> 18:52.000 lawsuit? Like what have you seen personally, you know, working 18:52.000 --> 18:55.090 with all these different guys, like, how do you handle this? 18:56.320 --> 19:00.400 Sean Murray: So, you know, I've said this before, and I don't 19:00.400 --> 19:06.130 think it's hard to take it seriously, until it happens. 19:07.300 --> 19:10.630 Because you know, what, what do you do if you're being sued, and 19:10.630 --> 19:13.120 you're a broker, and you don't have the resources to defend 19:13.120 --> 19:16.870 yourself? I don't really know what you do. You really need to 19:16.870 --> 19:20.140 go into the industry itself. This is commercial finance, I 19:20.140 --> 19:22.630 don't care what anyone told you about. This is a work from home 19:22.630 --> 19:26.170 job or it's easy. You know you can make a million dollars, it's 19:26.170 --> 19:29.350 just sales, just phone sales or whatever. This is the world of 19:29.350 --> 19:34.300 commercial finance, like period, and it's a complicated and 19:34.360 --> 19:38.590 somewhat institutionalized world. And when things go wrong, 19:38.650 --> 19:42.160 well, it's you're gonna be playing with the big boys and 19:42.160 --> 19:45.160 how that that dispute gets resolved. Yeah. A lot of times 19:45.160 --> 19:47.320 it's going to be through the court system. You're going to be 19:47.320 --> 19:50.050 named as a co defendant, and you're gonna be expected to 19:50.050 --> 19:53.470 defend yourself. Do not expect the funder or the lender to pay 19:53.470 --> 19:56.230 your legal bills. And guess what, you can't just ignore 19:56.230 --> 19:59.080 these things and be like, I'm just not gonna respond and hope 19:59.110 --> 20:02.050 hope it goes away. It really doesn't work like that, you're 20:02.050 --> 20:06.070 gonna have to pay for a lawyer to defend you. Even if you did 20:06.070 --> 20:10.660 nothing. Anyone can file a lawsuit against you. Even even 20:10.660 --> 20:13.840 if it's not true, they just have to believe that it is true. And 20:13.870 --> 20:17.260 how and accurately state their their claim against you. And you 20:17.260 --> 20:20.260 can be like it's total. It's total nonsense. It's false. 20:20.260 --> 20:24.430 That's not what happened. Well, that's for your own lawyer to 20:24.730 --> 20:28.780 handle for you, right. And this is something that's going to 20:28.780 --> 20:32.530 come up, whether you're a very small operator, it could be a 20:32.530 --> 20:35.770 one man show working from home, and all of a sudden you get 20:35.770 --> 20:38.860 sued, this was a real risk that you need to consider. It could 20:38.860 --> 20:42.250 happen. Yeah. And I think when you're a really good 20:42.250 --> 20:45.070 salesperson, you like to think that everything is within your 20:45.070 --> 20:48.370 control, that if I just call them. Yeah. You know, they won't 20:48.370 --> 20:51.430 do this, right? Or let me just give them a call. This can all 20:51.430 --> 20:55.210 be fixed, right? And I think that even if you're super 20:55.210 --> 20:58.120 confident in your abilities. Yeah. You may be somewhat 20:58.120 --> 21:01.510 helpless to actually resolve their dispute. If the underlying 21:01.510 --> 21:04.120 dispute is with the lender or the funder, and only they can 21:04.180 --> 21:07.690 only they can truly fix it, all you can do is talk to them, 21:07.720 --> 21:11.410 right? And you could just get lumped into it. And this is the 21:11.410 --> 21:16.570 real risk to consider. And I've seen it happen. A lot of times, 21:16.810 --> 21:19.960 I've seen it happen to big shops, medium sized shops. And 21:19.960 --> 21:22.870 I've seen it happen to way too many small company, one man 21:22.870 --> 21:27.460 shows. Yeah. Who end up getting sued, for one reason or another, 21:27.730 --> 21:31.090 because they didn't realize the stakes that this is the 21:31.090 --> 21:33.700 commercial finance industry. And even though it may seem like you 21:33.700 --> 21:36.640 just need a phone and an email to get started, and you know, 21:36.640 --> 21:39.220 the funders and the lenders are ones with all the liability. No, 21:39.220 --> 21:42.940 you're like, you're presumed to be a sophisticated party too. 21:42.970 --> 21:45.070 Yeah. And so this is something you really need to be thinking 21:45.070 --> 21:45.460 about. 21:45.550 --> 21:47.050 Johny Fernandez: And I think I think what comes to mind, is 21:47.050 --> 21:49.930 like you want to play with the big boys, when the big boys come 21:49.930 --> 21:52.720 calling, you have to be prepared to defend yourself. 21:53.320 --> 21:55.540 Sean Murray: Yeah, that's exactly right. This is this is 21:55.540 --> 21:57.760 an industry where, you know, there's a lot of. 21:57.790 --> 22:00.880 Johny Fernandez: Great money, you can make great money. But 22:00.880 --> 22:01.480 also. 22:01.780 --> 22:02.500 Sean Murray: Yeah, exactly. 22:02.530 --> 22:03.280 Johny Fernandez: It's gonna cost you 22:03.280 --> 22:05.250 Sean Murray: You know, if you want to, if you want to make big 22:05.250 --> 22:07.350 money, then you're you're playing at a table where 22:07.350 --> 22:10.710 everyone has a lot of money. And one of the tools they have in 22:10.710 --> 22:15.390 their arsenal is lawyers. Yeah. Right. So if the potential to 22:15.390 --> 22:18.270 make a lot of money is there and it is you can, you can make a 22:18.270 --> 22:19.830 million dollars, you know, I don't know if you can make a 22:19.830 --> 22:21.780 million dollars per year, but you can certainly make a million 22:21.780 --> 22:24.780 dollars in small business finance world. And guess what, 22:25.740 --> 22:29.070 there's so much money flowing around that. So many people have 22:29.070 --> 22:31.620 lawyers, they don't think anything of it at all, it's just 22:31.620 --> 22:32.640 a normal part of business. 22:32.640 --> 22:33.090 Johny Fernandez: It is. 22:33.210 --> 22:36.180 Sean Murray: And then here you are, you know, essentially a one 22:36.180 --> 22:40.170 man show or a very small shop that can well, you know, that 22:40.200 --> 22:43.560 that hopefully I won't need that you will, you won't need that. 22:43.560 --> 22:45.750 Johny Fernandez: And I think it's what you just said right 22:45.750 --> 22:50.520 there. Having a lawyer and being ready to sue, it's a normal part 22:50.520 --> 22:54.540 of business, just any business, any business owner, you know, 22:54.540 --> 22:57.720 corporations, etc. They're ready legally, and they have a legal 22:57.720 --> 23:01.590 department ready to go guns blazing, if they need to. 23:01.650 --> 23:02.190 Sean Murray: Yeah. 23:02.250 --> 23:04.920 Johny Fernandez: And kind of like what you said, if you are a 23:04.920 --> 23:08.700 one man show, and you think you're on top of the world. And 23:08.700 --> 23:11.550 some and you do something wrong, or you encounter a situation 23:11.550 --> 23:14.070 where you are gonna get sued, and you're, you know, subpoenaed 23:14.070 --> 23:18.270 to show up to court, etc, etc. You have to prepare. 23:18.330 --> 23:21.240 Sean Murray: Yeah. And it's, it may be hard in the beginning to 23:21.240 --> 23:25.260 imagine having to set aside money for future legal expenses, 23:25.290 --> 23:28.950 because it's already hard enough to run a you know. Yeah. An ISO 23:28.950 --> 23:33.540 an ISO a broker company as it is. But you really do need to 23:33.540 --> 23:36.990 have it and too many people out there say, oh, I have a friend 23:36.990 --> 23:40.470 who's a lawyer. Everyone. Everyone has. Everyone has a 23:40.470 --> 23:42.720 friend who's a lawyer. So that's why I'm bringing it up. Because 23:42.720 --> 23:45.060 everyone's like, oh, and I got a friend who's a lawyer. Yeah. 23:45.120 --> 23:49.500 Unfortunately, that lawyer may not always be exactly what 23:49.500 --> 23:52.470 you're gonna need. Like there might be a lawyer who does real 23:52.470 --> 23:55.200 estate deals. They're not someone who goes and like 23:55.200 --> 23:58.050 defends people in court. There's all different types of lawyers. 23:58.050 --> 24:00.930 Yeah. So the lawyer you're friends with might not be the 24:00.930 --> 24:04.350 type of lawyer you would need, if someone is threatening to sue 24:04.350 --> 24:07.830 you, or actually suing you. And then when you go and you say, 24:07.860 --> 24:10.230 hey, can you help me out? You might find that that person 24:10.230 --> 24:15.090 tells you, no, I can't. I can help you with your contract. I 24:15.090 --> 24:17.790 can answer a couple questions for you, I can notarize 24:17.790 --> 24:20.760 something for you. But I can't defend you in a lawsuit. That's 24:20.760 --> 24:23.550 not the type of law that I do. Or I can't go up against this 24:23.550 --> 24:25.800 type of commercial litigator. It's not gonna work out for you. 24:25.800 --> 24:29.460 So you got to have more than just my friend is a lawyer type 24:29.460 --> 24:30.090 of little. 24:30.090 --> 24:32.220 Johny Fernandez: And I think it's like, what what you just 24:32.220 --> 24:37.260 said a lot of people they think that because their friend is a 24:37.260 --> 24:40.050 lawyer, they can back them up. But I think something people 24:40.050 --> 24:43.500 forget is that there's different types of law, you know, 24:43.530 --> 24:47.460 entertainment law, real estate law, family, marriage, and 24:47.460 --> 24:50.910 family law. You know, just regular criminal justice law, 24:51.450 --> 24:54.960 contracts, you know, you have entertainment law I think I said 24:54.960 --> 25:00.270 that already. Yeah. But there's these different areas that they 25:00.270 --> 25:02.910 just can't cross over. Yeah. It's like the medical field. 25:02.910 --> 25:05.940 Like, you're not gonna get a gastroenterologist to do a 25:05.940 --> 25:08.790 family practice visit, like, they just donate intertwine. 25:08.820 --> 25:12.840 Yeah. I feel like that's the perception when people say yeah 25:12.840 --> 25:16.620 I have a family friend, that's a lawyer, and they don't practice 25:17.070 --> 25:19.020 the law that we need, they can't do anything. 25:19.020 --> 25:22.150 Sean Murray: Yeah. You know, now that we're talking about it, 25:22.150 --> 25:24.880 this has come up before, this is the risk that should be 25:24.880 --> 25:28.720 disclosed to anybody. There are a lot of small companies out 25:28.720 --> 25:30.850 there that they go out, and they raise money from family and 25:30.850 --> 25:36.070 friends to start their companies up. And I think oftentimes, the 25:36.340 --> 25:40.180 the presentation that's given to them about, you know, the risks 25:40.210 --> 25:44.650 and the rewards, it's how much return can you make and what are 25:44.650 --> 25:47.950 the defaults like? Yeah. And they, they everything is based 25:47.950 --> 25:50.860 off that. Yeah. And the legal side just gets pushed back. 25:50.860 --> 25:51.490 Johny Fernandez: Pushed back, yeah. 25:51.520 --> 25:53.470 Sean Murray: They might say, well, like, hey, certain courts 25:53.470 --> 25:56.530 have deemed these products to be legal in these dates or 25:56.530 --> 26:00.130 whatever. But I don't think that they I don't think it's 26:00.130 --> 26:00.970 adequately 26:02.050 --> 26:02.620 Johny Fernandez: Presented. 26:02.620 --> 26:07.390 Sean Murray: Presented, that litigation tends to be a major 26:07.390 --> 26:10.570 part of the business and litigation is extremely 26:10.570 --> 26:11.290 expensive. 26:12.100 --> 26:13.480 Johny Fernandez: Well, litigation can literally close 26:13.480 --> 26:16.330 down your business. Because I feel like it's expensive. 26:16.360 --> 26:19.540 Yeah, these are things that can cause 10s of 1000s of dollars, 26:19.570 --> 26:23.050 right, depending on, you know, whatever the nature of it is. 26:23.080 --> 26:28.120 Yeah. And you need to decide from the onset with whoever 26:28.120 --> 26:30.820 you're raising money from, who's going to be paying for those 26:30.820 --> 26:35.260 costs? And did you tell them in advance that this is a true risk 26:35.350 --> 26:39.880 cause I did have someone ask me a few years ago, you know, you 26:39.880 --> 26:42.610 know, what, what am I missing? Here are the returns these are 26:42.610 --> 26:45.220 the costs. I'm raising a bunch of money, what am I missing? And 26:45.220 --> 26:48.070 I was looking at what they sent me just like a random email. 26:48.100 --> 26:51.370 Yeah. And I was I was like, well, what about all the the 26:51.370 --> 26:54.280 legal fees? You know what I mean? Like, what happens if 26:54.280 --> 26:58.780 someone what happens if these merchants sue? Who pays for 26:58.780 --> 27:00.640 that? They're like, well, how often did that happen? And I was 27:00.640 --> 27:04.150 like, happens all the time. Happens all the time. Yeah. And 27:04.150 --> 27:05.770 you really need to build that into your model. 27:05.920 --> 27:08.290 Yeah, I think that's great, great advice. And again, we're 27:08.290 --> 27:08.890 not lawyers. 27:08.890 --> 27:09.220 Sean Murray: Yeah. 27:09.250 --> 27:10.750 Johny Fernandez: We just want to clarify that we are not lawyers. 27:11.020 --> 27:13.960 So if you do need legal advice, speak with a lawyer, plain and 27:13.960 --> 27:14.200 simple. 27:14.230 --> 27:14.860 Sean Murray: Yes. 27:15.440 --> 27:18.080 Johny Fernandez: But that's all we have for today. If you want 27:18.080 --> 27:21.680 to check out more videos and information with deBanked, and 27:21.680 --> 27:24.470 just stories from the MCA world or the industry, you can log on 27:24.470 --> 27:27.410 to debanked.com. Or check us out on social media. We have 27:27.410 --> 27:31.880 Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. And then also 27:31.880 --> 27:36.140 don't forget Broker Fair is coming up on December 6. And if 27:36.140 --> 27:38.540 you have not bought your ticket, buy your tickets now because 27:38.540 --> 27:41.210 they will sell out. And we already sold out of 27:41.210 --> 27:44.450 sponsorships, so we're not we're no longer doing that. But you 27:44.450 --> 27:47.090 still have a chance to buy a ticket, book your hotel, come to 27:47.090 --> 27:50.660 New York, hang out with us. We'll be here providing you the 27:50.660 --> 27:53.210 best advice for pizza and bagels. Yeah, and restaurants. 27:53.240 --> 27:54.980 Sean Murray: And we're gonna have our shoes on so you know we 27:54.980 --> 27:55.730 mean business. 27:55.730 --> 27:58.810 Johny Fernandez: Gotta take care of the baby. 27:59.710 --> 28:00.790 Sean Murray: Take care of the baby. 28:01.360 --> 28:02.620 Johny Fernandez: Anyways, so. 28:02.890 --> 28:04.450 Sean Murray: If you missed last episode that would just. 28:06.670 --> 28:08.290 Johny Fernandez: So that's all we have for you guys. Thank you 28:08.290 --> 28:11.200 you guys so much for for tuning in. I'm Johny Fernandez. 28:11.230 --> 28:11.980 Sean Murray: And I'm Sean Murray. 28:12.010 --> 28:13.060 Johny Fernandez: We'll see you guys next time.