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Sean Murray: Welcome back to
deBanked TV. I'm here today with

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another special guest. I have
Chris Dryden, who is the

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managing partner of Global Legal
Law Firm. Thank you for being

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here, Chris.

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Chris Dryden: Thanks a lot,
Sean. Thanks for having me.

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Sean Murray: No problem. So
what's it like being back at a

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show in person?

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Chris Dryden: I have to say
being here, is you know,

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normally, it's a labor of love
trying to mix work with coming

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to a show staying focused with
what you're doing, and then

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manage all the marketing aspect
of things. But then, you know,

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being off for a year, it's been
really nice to come and

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reconnect, see what's going on
in the industry, especially

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after the pandemic and. Yeah.
See if things have changed, or

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if they, you know, kind of the
same, but it's been, it's been

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enjoyable just to see face to
face with some of these folks.

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Sean Murray: Now, it's my
understanding that you came here

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from California.

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Chris Dryden: I did.

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Sean Murray: Okay. And you're a
San Diego native. Is that right?

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Okay.

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Chris Dryden: Yeah, I moved
there when I was one, but I've

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been there ever since.

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Sean Murray: Okay.

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Chris Dryden: Pretty nice place
except for school, but get to

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enjoy some sunshine and I live
close to the ocean. But, you

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know, coming to Florida is not
half bad either.

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Sean Murray: Yeah. Well, yeah.
No, and not for me either, you

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know, coming from New Jersey and
New York area.

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Chris Dryden: Yeah.

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Sean Murray: So tell me a little
bit about Global Legal Law Firm.

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What type of law do you do?

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Chris Dryden: So primarily,
we're in the payment space.

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We've been in the industry kind
of backed into it about 2008, I

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had an ISO client approach me to
do some work for him, I ended up

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able to start the firm from it.
And as I learned the industry,

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we we're able to kind of branch
out, find more areas where we

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could service, you know, whether
it's ISOs, agents, third party

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processors, wholesale ISOs. And
eventually all the way through

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this last year, a lot of
merchant work.

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Sean Murray: Sure, when you say
service them, what kind of

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service are you providing?

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Chris Dryden: So that's a good
question. I initially, you know,

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did a lot of contract work,
we're kind of like an outside

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general counsel for just regular
things that a business would

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experience, but then got very
much more payments specific. So

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we do contract review, contract
drafting, negotiations with your

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processor, either upstream, or
agent downstream, do a lot of

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M&A work. So that type of
transaction, and then we're one

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of the few firms that really
specialize in litigation. So if

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litigation arises somewhere,
we're fully equipped to handle

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it. So my partner and I, James
Huber, we're really

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knowledgeable on payments. And
then we have four other

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litigators in our office that
work on litigation related

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items, whether it be something
very simple to a breach of

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contract dispute to regulatory
enforcement defense it really

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is, you know, whatever kind of
comes through, but anything that

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touches the payment processing
world and the merchant world.

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Sean Murray: Did you see more of
any of that type of work during

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the pandemic? Did any any one
area of work increase or any

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area of work kind of decrease?

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Chris Dryden: Yeah, so it was
interesting. Like, initially,

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everybody went into like, just
stress mode, right? I mean,

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there were a lot of people not
knowing what was going to

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happen, because we were on a
lockdown for so long, brick and

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mortar dried up, even with more
money coming through from the

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government, it didn't
necessarily mean that things

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were going to be okay, going
forward. But what we really saw

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was that as things started to
just kind of gradually ramp back

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up, what happened more than
anything else was the shift of

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the merchants having to go
online to maintain their

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existing business. And so now
you have people that never had

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really a e-commerce presence or
an online presence, where that

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became a large portion of their
business. And in doing that, the

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processors weren't necessarily
ready to underwrite that type of

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business. And so when you have
merchants that are unfamiliar

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with how to actually process or
accept payment, at a remote, you

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know, distance, it caused some
problems, you know, so we've

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done a lot of merchant work
where you've had match

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placement, or just termination
of agreements. And then

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residuals being held, but not
really good reasons for these

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things happening. And so we've
been representing a lot more

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merchants over the last six to
12 months just to remedy issues

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that have come from having to go
online to actually run their

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business.

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Sean Murray: Yeah, that's
interesting. You know, I've

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talked about some risk earlier
on the street here. And I was

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talking about how processors
have to underwrite risk, just

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like a lender would have to
underwrite a loan. But I, you

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know, I hadn't thought of how
that might affect a merchant

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during the pandemic, because the
processor is shifting the type

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of, you know, transactions that
they originally underwrote that

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merchant for.

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Chris Dryden: Yeah, well, it's
not even necessarily that the

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transactions are shifting, but
it's the fact that the way that

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they're doing things is
shifting, for instance, you

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know, a lot, a lot of home
improvement happened during the

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pandemic, people started putting
a lot more money into their

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house. We had a guy that came to
us, he's a pool supplies guy,

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but all of his business where he
had a storefront before had gone

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to remote. And so he was doing
this here, I'm ordering from my

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distributor, I'm getting things
in I'm, I'm having him go out

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and invoicing. He was having to
adjust to how he was doing

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things. But all of a sudden, his
online card not present volume

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went from 10% of his business to
90%. And then you have a

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processor. It's not necessarily
looking at oh okay, well, what

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is really going on? And so in
that regard, you know, you have

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that aspect of, well, now we
have to re underwrite this guy

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for a different type of
business.

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Sean Murray: Sure. Yeah, I can,
I can only, you know, I had not

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even thought of that, that
aspect of it of the processor

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having underwritten the merchant
for one way, and then they go

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from like, you know, 10% key
entered to like, you know, 90%

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90% Yeah. 100% Yeah. Right, I
guess, especially in the case of

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the pandemic, where they they
couldn't do any sales in person,

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that's certainly a big part of
it. Earlier today, you were on a

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panel. And there there was a lot
of different topics of

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discussion and one of them was
like, CB, CB. CBD? Yeah, like

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what's happening in like that
area of the world?

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Chris Dryden: That's a tough,
that's a tough answer. Yeah. So

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you got a lot of agencies that
are looking at this space, you

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know, CBD is gonna happen, it's
gonna happen in some way, shape,

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or form. But, you know, there's
the aspect of, you know, is it a

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medicinal item. So you've got,
you know, it being proffered out

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as a medicinal thing. So now you
got the FDA looking at it, used

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to be, you know, marijuana is
illegal, you know, schedule one

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drugs, the DEA looks at it. Then
you have CBD, where they're the

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farm bill comes out from the
FDA, and it says, oh, well, you

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can extract certain things, you
know, so now you can have CBD

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products, but then that's being
treated differently from states

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from marijuana laws. And so in
commerce, it's gonna happen,

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there's no way to stop the force
of what's gonna take place. And

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so the fact that they're gonna
have to figure out how to

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standardize it. And until that
happens, you're gonna have all

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these competing factions,
whether it be the federal

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government versus the states, or
what's legal, what's not legal,

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you know, you know, people
trying to find a way into the

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marketplace by, you know,
extracting a different type of

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the marijuana plant or the
cannabis plant to be able to

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like actually sell that off as
whatever it's gonna be. So it's

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been very interesting to see how
there's this discord between

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these things. So until they find
some standardization. So for us,

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what we see is just a really
hard product to place. You know,

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you have people that are out
there, and then you have bad

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actors that are out there that
are, you know, potentially

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calling it magic or a miracle.
And so it's hard for the

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processors and the underwriters,
in addition to the regulatory

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work to look at it and go oh,
okay, is are they really selling

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something that they're supposed
to be selling? You know, things

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along that that line. So CBD is
just one of these things that

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has a really high margin because
it has a high risk aspect.

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Sean Murray: Yeah, you were
talking to me off camera about

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about, you know, high risk like,
like what's what's happening

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within like the high risk space
of payments, is there any any

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particular?

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Chris Dryden: It's it's so
there's hard to place.

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Traditionally, there has been
hard to place merchants, whether

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it's gaming, or it's adult, or
nutraceuticals, even anything,

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where there's a higher
possibility of a chargeback,

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just because it's at a distance,
you know, people are making, you

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know, certain claims or
representations about the

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efficacy of a product or this or
that. I think a lot of things

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that are happening in that space
is just because it's a high

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margin for high risk when you
have a hard to place product,

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like we were talking about
earlier, if you don't have

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processing, you really don't
have business. Right. So if you

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don't have processing, then, you
know, essentially, do you even

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have property or an opportunity
to succeed under the American

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dream, as we so call it. And so
when people are looking for

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processing, they're looking to
pay more, which means that the

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processors can charge more,
they're gonna be more of a

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markup for the agents. So
anything that's in high risk,

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where people are having an
issue, trying to find a home for

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it, you're just automatically
gonna see more interest in it.

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Sean Murray: Okay, I can
understand that. I think you

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mentioned that you also do some
collections work in the working

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capital space, as well.

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Chris Dryden: We do. We have a
couple of partners in working

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capital, we're, whether it's an
MCA or a traditional commercial

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loan, sometimes a factoring
agreement, but they're a little

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bit more complex. You know, if
there's a default, and they

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can't do something pre
litigation, in certain states,

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they farm it out to us. And we
go ahead and do collections

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litigation, getting the
judgments, is the easy part,

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getting the money's the more
difficult part, but we have a

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very systematic process that we
follow with a really experienced

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staff. And so we're in
California, Oregon, Washington,

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traditionally, we do a couple of
other states. But, you know,

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we've been doing that for about
five, six years. And it's just

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part of what we do. It's just
got my own little unit or team

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within the law firm that handles
it. So you know, we just try to

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collect money for you guys.

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Sean Murray: Nice.

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Chris Dryden: Yeah.

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Sean Murray: I'm sure everyone's
happy about that.

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Chris Dryden: Most of the time,
most the time, you know, a lot

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of times it's something that
happens down the road, like I

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was discussing with you where we
we get a judgment lien and you

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know, we place it down, and then
somebody wants to actually

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refinance a property that
they're still holding on to and

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it's appreciated. But. Yeah.
Ultimately, you know, sometimes

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it takes a little while, but we
just try to remain consistent in

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our efforts. You know, try to
find any property that we can

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attach to and keep pushing the
paper as much as possible once

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we get it.

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Sean Murray: Yeah, I think that
gets lost on some companies that

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they want to collect on what's
outstanding immediately. Right.

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And they don't realize that it
could be a waiting game, but it

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will happen eventually.

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Chris Dryden: It's a long game.
Yeah, and there is a short term

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aspect to it, I think if you can
hit it while it's hot, you have

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a better chance at least in the
immediate. Yeah. But once it

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gets past like, what, 60, 90
days? Yeah. I'm just in it for

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the long haul. And maybe I got a
vacation later on because we hit

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something big.

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Sean Murray: Yeah. Where would
you go on vacation? You're from

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San Diego, what's vacation for
you?

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Chris Dryden: Next place I want
to go is Colombia.

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Sean Murray: Okay.

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Chris Dryden: I've been there
once before. And it's a

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beautiful country and it's 310
roundtrip right now from LAX.

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Sean Murray: Can't go wrong.

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Chris Dryden: I figure maybe
there, or always wanted to go to

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New Zealand and Australia. So
those are on my bucket list.

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Sean Murray: Okay. Well, I think
you know, they're gonna open

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back up soon, if they're not
open already.

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Chris Dryden: I hope so.

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Sean Murray: Yeah.

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Chris Dryden: I hope just like
us, I hope that we're open as

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soon as we can possibly can be.

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Sean Murray: My last question
for you is, how has the show

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been for you? It's the end of
the second day, it's almost it's

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almost over, you know, what's
been the takeaway for you here?

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Chris Dryden: I think the take
away, the biggest takeaways is

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that, even though we've gone
through quite a bit of an

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adjustment, it's still the same
thing. But I think if there's

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one thing that I would focus on,
and that I would talk to the

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people in payments about, is
just that when I first got into

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payments, it was sort of like,
here, it's one size fits all.

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And as things get more dynamic
in the payment space, what I've

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noticed more and more is that
you really have to look at your

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merchant and figure out, what's
their value add? How can I

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really help them like and it
might not be one solution, it

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might be two or three solutions
where you know, I have a client,

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I can't really say who they are,
but they do surcharging. And

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they've gotten a lot of
institutional players that are

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now doing surcharging for credit
cards where they have a program

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where they're able to service
them. And now we've gotten away

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from the traditional check, and
they're actually having no cost

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associated with it, because the
surcharge eats up the

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interchange fee. And then
there's still profit for our

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clients. And so they went out
and they developed a technology

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that really focused on a certain
industry or sector. And now

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they've, you know, the sky's the
limit if they can get all these

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institutions because it's super
high volume. And so I think if

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you can look at the merchant
base that you're, you know,

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trying to service or sign. I
think if you can see where their

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value ads are, there's so many
payment processing options out

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there. You can offer them a
segmented like solution that's

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not just you know, singular.

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Sean Murray: Okay. Well, I
appreciate your time. Thank you

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so much for being here.

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Chris Dryden: Appreciate your's.

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Sean Murray: That was that was
Chris Dryden from Global Legal

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Law Firm. Thank you very much.

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Chris Dryden: Have a good day.