00:01.590 --> 00:03.660 Sean Murray: Okay, hello. Welcome back, everybody. My name 00:03.660 --> 00:05.670 is Sean Murray here on deBanked TV. 00:05.670 --> 00:07.910 Johny Fernandez: And I'm Johny Fernandez. Sean it's good to see 00:07.910 --> 00:10.550 you again. Like the old days. Midway through the week, 00:10.550 --> 00:14.720 everyone. So the question that, you know, we've been asking is 00:14.750 --> 00:18.710 how to make money in a COVID era. And a conversation that 00:18.710 --> 00:21.320 I've been hearing a lot from brokers in the industry and 00:21.320 --> 00:24.560 brokers out of the industry, like real estate is, is cold 00:24.560 --> 00:28.040 calling dead? Something we've talked about before. And I know 00:28.070 --> 00:32.840 when it comes to brokers in real estate, for example, the newer 00:32.840 --> 00:35.600 generation, there's something hard for them to grasp is cold 00:35.600 --> 00:39.110 calling and picking up the phone and calling random strangers. 00:39.440 --> 00:42.710 The big conversation that I've had with other brokers is that 00:42.830 --> 00:47.570 especially Gen Z millennial brokers, is that they don't like 00:47.600 --> 00:50.480 the rejection aspect of it. And a lot of people are also saying 00:50.480 --> 00:54.050 that cold calling is dead. So Sean, in your your view, you've 00:54.050 --> 00:56.840 been in the business for quite some time. What are your 00:56.840 --> 00:58.580 thoughts? Do you think cold calling is dead? 00:59.650 --> 01:04.450 Sean Murray: Well, I don't think it's dead. I just think that 01:04.450 --> 01:10.960 there are challenges with its scalability. Because you can't 01:10.990 --> 01:14.110 essentially automate it. Yeah. You know what I mean, it's not 01:14.110 --> 01:17.440 like a tech thing. And you have to be calling the right people. 01:18.340 --> 01:20.530 Otherwise, you're going to spend a lot of time reaching people 01:20.530 --> 01:24.820 that aren't interested, don't qualify. And more importantly, 01:25.420 --> 01:28.450 are perhaps on some sort of list in which you're not supposed to 01:28.450 --> 01:32.680 be calling them. Because this is a topic that's come up a bunch 01:33.040 --> 01:37.030 is somebody being on like the do not call list, right. Or if 01:37.030 --> 01:39.940 you're using robo dialing technology, and you dial a cell 01:39.940 --> 01:45.010 phone, you can be on the hook to pay a fine or a fee, if you 01:45.010 --> 01:50.140 violate what's known as TCPA. And there are people who make a 01:50.140 --> 01:54.880 cottage business out of suing people who robo dial their cell 01:54.880 --> 01:58.360 phone. And so you have to be extremely, extremely careful, 01:58.390 --> 02:03.940 perhaps now, more you had to be 10, 15 years ago. And there's 02:03.940 --> 02:07.060 actually there's some companies out there that will sell you a 02:07.060 --> 02:11.560 list of people not to call. Okay. Yeah, like, you know, like 02:11.560 --> 02:13.240 people are trying to get the data of who to call. Who to 02:13.240 --> 02:15.970 call. And who to cold call. You can buy a list of data who not 02:15.970 --> 02:19.990 to cold call, and try to scrub that against, against your list. 02:20.500 --> 02:23.830 So that you don't end up robo dialing, or calling someone on 02:23.830 --> 02:26.770 the do not call list and ending up in a situation where these 02:26.770 --> 02:32.410 people are very experienced in trying to either sue you for 02:32.410 --> 02:37.240 money or pressure you into giving, giving them money. And I 02:37.240 --> 02:39.640 think that's like one of the biggest barriers to cold calling 02:39.640 --> 02:42.700 now is that you're going to run you're going to run into that I 02:42.700 --> 02:46.090 hear it's almost like the cost of doing business. Not that you 02:46.090 --> 02:48.550 intentionally do it, and you have to accept it as a loss, but 02:48.550 --> 02:51.160 that you're going to run into people who try to bait you into 02:51.160 --> 02:54.220 calling them and then you're going to have to you're going to 02:54.220 --> 02:56.020 end up in a situation where someone's going to challenge 02:56.020 --> 03:02.290 you. And I'm violating like T, TCCA and it's a lot easier if 03:02.290 --> 03:06.490 you're, you know, manually doing it versus robo dialing, I can 03:06.490 --> 03:09.220 just tell you from firsthand, you've done cold calling, right? 03:09.250 --> 03:09.520 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. 03:09.520 --> 03:10.390 Sean Murray: Can you do cold calling? 03:10.390 --> 03:14.740 Johny Fernandez: I do I do do cold calling, I think what's 03:14.740 --> 03:18.490 been my downfall in the past is that, because there's all this 03:18.490 --> 03:21.040 new technology where you can do everything by the computer, now 03:21.070 --> 03:27.250 you don't even have to call I am guilty of just emailing and you 03:27.250 --> 03:29.920 know, getting the list and to sending like the same email, put 03:29.920 --> 03:33.610 the template, change the name and send it but I think what 03:33.610 --> 03:35.530 I've noticed is there's something about cold calling 03:35.530 --> 03:38.710 that you can actually, you know, once you get on the phone with 03:38.710 --> 03:41.470 the individual, you have to, you start building a relationship, 03:41.950 --> 03:44.230 you know, you can eventually get into the meeting, which is what 03:44.230 --> 03:46.480 everyone wants. And then after the meeting, you know, the deal 03:46.480 --> 03:48.970 can come through, and then you make the money and you get to 03:48.970 --> 03:53.350 started with a phone call. But I have I'm very much guilty of 03:53.560 --> 03:56.980 using, you know, lead generated sites and that they give you the 03:56.980 --> 03:59.890 email than I just sent emails because it's easier and you 03:59.890 --> 04:03.370 don't get hurt when they say no, and they hang up for you know, 04:03.520 --> 04:06.850 rejections, like 90% of cold calling to begin with. And 04:06.850 --> 04:08.530 everyone has been saying, you know, cold calling is dead, 04:08.530 --> 04:11.920 because technology took over. But I still believe that cold 04:11.920 --> 04:15.520 calling is one of those things that, you know, is useful if you 04:15.520 --> 04:19.060 do it right. And the end goal is to get the meeting, right to 04:19.060 --> 04:22.210 lock a deal in whether it's you know, real estate, whether it's 04:22.210 --> 04:26.830 the industry, I think, you know, it's still a core concept of 04:26.830 --> 04:27.940 just doing business. 04:27.940 --> 04:29.670 Johny Fernandez: Really you? 04:29.670 --> 04:30.720 Sean Murray: Yeah. And I'll just tell you in terms of, you're 04:30.779 --> 04:34.093 like the third person this morning to bring up the whole, 04:34.151 --> 04:37.291 you know, fear of rejection, rejection aspect, in cold 04:37.349 --> 04:41.012 calling. And it seems to be for the younger generations who are 04:41.070 --> 04:44.210 so used to having digital interactions where it's, you 04:44.268 --> 04:47.873 know, like a text message or an email or whatever, and may not 04:47.931 --> 04:50.897 be used to that. That verbal rejection or in person 04:50.955 --> 04:54.502 rejection. You know, I had when I used to do sales, I did two 04:54.560 --> 04:58.223 types of cold calling. I guess you could say I was on the I was 04:58.281 --> 05:01.886 one of the people that if you pressed one, you know press one, 05:01.944 --> 05:05.549 if you're interested in getting funding, you would get me, you 05:05.607 --> 05:09.212 would get me. I wasn't the one running the campaign, but I was 05:09.212 --> 05:09.270 Sean Murray: Yeah, me. Well, I started, very hard for me in the 05:09.270 --> 05:12.817 a sales agent you would get if you pressed one. And those did 05:12.875 --> 05:16.422 really poorly. I got a lot of people really, really mad, like 05:16.480 --> 05:19.736 the the robo dialed press one for whatever, and it was a 05:19.794 --> 05:23.109 computerized voice. And then you would get me people were 05:23.167 --> 05:26.772 pressing one just to, you know, say all types of things. Yeah. 05:26.830 --> 05:30.319 You know, that was that was pretty brutal. But the area that 05:30.377 --> 05:33.458 I did have success in was manually cold calling where 05:33.517 --> 05:37.238 there was no computer, there was no press one. It was like, hey, 05:37.296 --> 05:40.494 it's me. You know what I mean, this is what I do. I was 05:40.552 --> 05:43.750 terrible at the script. Yeah. You know what I mean. I'm 05:43.808 --> 05:47.355 terrible at the scripts too. People know, when you're reading 05:47.413 --> 05:51.018 a script. Yeah. After a while after like two days. I'm like, I 05:51.076 --> 05:54.623 can't do this. You know what I mean, like, I just throw it in 05:54.681 --> 05:58.344 the garbage. I know what it is I'm selling, I would just try to 05:58.402 --> 06:02.007 adapt to the situation, you know what I mean, and get to who I 06:02.066 --> 06:05.787 wanted to speak to you. And you know, that seemed that seemed to 06:05.845 --> 06:09.566 work. And I think that in terms of rejection, that rejection can 06:09.624 --> 06:13.171 be harder, because you kind of initiated the conversation you 06:13.229 --> 06:16.892 know what I mean. Yeah. And the secret out there, if anyone out 06:16.951 --> 06:20.149 there is cold calling we're talking about if it's dead. 06:20.207 --> 06:23.870 Yeah. And it's not dead. If the dead part of it is on you. Like 06:23.928 --> 06:27.533 if you're just scared of being rejected. That doesn't mean the 06:27.591 --> 06:31.080 industry and cold calling is dead. That just means you can't 06:31.138 --> 06:34.801 do it. You know what I mean, and you have to be adequately able 06:34.859 --> 06:38.522 to deal with that rejection. And for me, the way I got over it, 06:38.580 --> 06:40.850 because it was very hard for me in the beginning. 06:40.850 --> 06:51.080 beginning, because I came from the underwriting side. And I 06:51.080 --> 06:54.470 went into sales after, and I was very used to being in a 06:54.470 --> 07:00.050 conversation in which there was like a presumption of, you know, 07:00.050 --> 07:03.830 this interaction, whereas all of a sudden, I was going to an 07:03.830 --> 07:07.700 interaction, whereas somebody was busy. You know, there will 07:07.700 --> 07:10.460 be times I call a restaurant during the lunch hour asking to 07:10.460 --> 07:13.190 speak to the owner. A lot of times, you know, it didn't go 07:13.190 --> 07:19.610 very well. But, yeah, exactly, if that. And the way to get over 07:19.610 --> 07:25.250 that, by the way, is just to do it so much, that you become numb 07:25.910 --> 07:28.730 to it. I don't mean in a negative way. But you've become 07:28.730 --> 07:32.450 numb to those, right? Yeah. In that first hour or two. It was 07:32.450 --> 07:35.570 like every, like, and people will say things to you that. 07:35.930 --> 07:38.870 They're hurtful. They're very hurtful. They're very hurtful. 07:39.740 --> 07:42.530 Two hours, you're like, oh, my heart, you know what I mean, my 07:42.530 --> 07:45.710 brain and my soul, everything, everything hurts. And then by 07:45.710 --> 07:47.630 the third hour, you're just like, you're all of a sudden, 07:47.630 --> 07:48.500 just like in the zone. 07:48.500 --> 07:51.090 Johny Fernandez: Well, and I think a great piece of advice is 07:51.090 --> 07:55.050 if you are cold calling, to not stop after two calls, it's like 07:55.080 --> 07:58.470 atleast the first call, you know, it's gonna be horrible. 07:58.470 --> 08:00.570 The second one's not gonna be bad, but the time time you reach 08:00.570 --> 08:03.930 your 40th call. It's like, I used to do used to be a 08:03.930 --> 08:07.110 telecommunicator. Okay. For college. I had a whole script 08:07.110 --> 08:10.140 and it's like, you know, like, for and I use that those same 08:10.140 --> 08:12.720 skills. Now, when I do cold calling, when no one picks up 08:12.720 --> 08:15.150 the phone. I'm like, hey, this is a, this is Sean Murray. This 08:15.150 --> 08:18.420 is Johny Fernandez. Yeah. With you know, so and so. And I just 08:18.420 --> 08:20.910 want to speak with you about X Y and Z, if you can give me a call 08:20.910 --> 08:26.070 back phone number is 917 bla bla bla bla that number again? 917. 08:26.100 --> 08:31.380 Yeah. And that was it. And it worked out. But it took hours of 08:32.160 --> 08:35.130 you know, getting rejected on the phone. Yeah. To be good at 08:35.130 --> 08:36.330 like leaving a voicemail. 08:36.390 --> 08:38.280 Sean Murray: Yeah, no, you just gotta. You just gotta power 08:38.280 --> 08:41.250 through it by that third hour you'll be totally good. Yeah. 08:42.210 --> 08:45.780 You would, you're talking about like making that 40th call. You 08:45.780 --> 08:49.920 definitely can't stop after two calls. I have seen people make a 08:49.920 --> 08:53.070 call get rejected and then say, okay, it's time for a cigarette. 08:53.100 --> 08:55.740 You know what I mean. Like, alright, you know that call, it 08:55.740 --> 08:57.630 was really bad. Now I need you know, now I need to step 08:57.630 --> 09:00.150 outside, take a break. And then like they're trying to get to 09:00.210 --> 09:02.790 the end of the day. Yeah. You know what I mean, you just gotta 09:02.790 --> 09:05.310 be like, alright, I'm gonna make 40 or 50 calls in a row. Yeah. 09:05.340 --> 09:08.490 Right. And once I get to, you know, to number 50, then I'll go 09:08.490 --> 09:10.830 outside, and I'll take my break. But if you don't get to that 09:10.860 --> 09:14.160 number, don't go there's no, there's no break. And if you I'm 09:14.160 --> 09:16.170 telling you if you suffer through all the bad calls, 09:16.350 --> 09:18.420 you're gonna get to the point where you don't you don't care 09:18.420 --> 09:21.870 about the people telling you no, or the nasty comments that you 09:21.930 --> 09:24.000 that you're gonna get occasionally, and you're just 09:24.000 --> 09:26.520 going to be doing your job, you know what I mean, and then by 09:26.520 --> 09:28.620 the end of the day, you're just, you're just going to be tired. 09:28.710 --> 09:31.230 Yeah. And then by the second day, you won't even be thinking 09:31.230 --> 09:33.780 about it anymore. Just be like, this is what you do. And it's 09:33.780 --> 09:37.230 just try to find try to find the prospect that's interested. And 09:37.230 --> 09:40.560 that's all it is. And so, cold calling can't be if you think 09:40.560 --> 09:44.160 cold calling is dead, because you're scared. You know what I 09:44.160 --> 09:46.920 mean, it's dead for you, doesn't mean it's dead for other people 09:46.920 --> 09:49.890 who are who are able to manage. That's my personal opinion. 09:49.890 --> 09:51.880 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, no, I agree with that. I think 09:51.910 --> 09:54.070 especially for the younger generation. It's one of those 09:54.070 --> 09:57.160 things where you they have to get over the rejection factor. I 09:57.160 --> 10:00.190 think that's huge. I think a lot of millennials and Gen Z ers 10:00.880 --> 10:03.310 they have this concept where they want to hide behind a 10:03.310 --> 10:06.700 keyboard or a phone and try to do business like that, but the 10:06.700 --> 10:11.200 reality is it's in the industry, you know, whether it's like 10:11.230 --> 10:14.530 brokering, real estate, you know, MCA, like it's a 10:14.530 --> 10:17.260 relationship. Yeah. At the end of the day, you know, you need 10:17.260 --> 10:19.630 to have relationships and relationships, relationships are 10:19.630 --> 10:23.500 built. You know, when you when you see that person, you talk to 10:23.500 --> 10:27.010 that person, that person, you know, you you guys earn each 10:27.010 --> 10:29.380 other's trust. Yeah. And you can't really do that on the 10:29.380 --> 10:32.290 phone too much. Yeah. And it's all referral at the end of the 10:32.290 --> 10:35.320 day. And you get referrals through building relationships 10:35.320 --> 10:36.910 with people. So. 10:37.000 --> 10:39.010 Sean Murray: Yeah, you know, sometimes I had the best luck 10:39.010 --> 10:43.030 with the coldest of leads. You know what I mean. Well, yeah. 10:43.270 --> 10:46.240 Because there was no almost no pressure. Yeah. Like if you if 10:46.240 --> 10:49.750 you buy an expensive lead, and you don't get what you want, 10:50.380 --> 10:52.570 it's like you're deflated, cause you spent all this money on the 10:52.570 --> 10:55.180 lead, right? Or the company you worked for did and then they're 10:55.180 --> 10:58.240 like, you know how'd it go and you're like. Yeah. Right. And so 10:58.240 --> 11:01.570 there's all this pressure going into the call to do it. At least 11:01.780 --> 11:03.640 you're laughing. It seems like you know what I'm talking about. 11:05.260 --> 11:08.200 Johny Fernandez: I think the important factor is like when 11:08.200 --> 11:11.320 you spend money, you want to make sure you get your ROI. 11:11.350 --> 11:14.740 Yeah. And sometimes it doesn't work out that way. Then you're 11:14.740 --> 11:18.400 like, well, what did I just do? Yeah. And you're hitting 11:18.400 --> 11:21.640 yourself, because you're like, man, like, that did not go as 11:21.640 --> 11:24.850 planned. But yeah, but sometimes it does go as planned. 11:24.850 --> 11:25.170 Give me all the cold leads. Yeah. In the office, I'm taking 11:25.170 --> 11:26.855 Sean Murray: That's true. Yeah. Well, if you're paying for 11:26.911 --> 11:30.221 leads, and it never goes as planned, it could be the leads, 11:30.278 --> 11:33.644 but it could also be you. Yeah. And it is actually it's good 11:33.701 --> 11:37.180 practice to do completely cold leads. Like in the beginning, I 11:37.236 --> 11:37.440 wasn't even, well, I was kind of given the impression that these 11:37.440 --> 11:37.680 over. 11:40.883 --> 11:44.194 were leads. And so I went in with like, I better turn these 11:44.250 --> 11:47.673 into deals. Yeah. Or else I'm fired, right. And then I closed 11:47.729 --> 11:51.264 a couple of them. And I didn't know if it was enough. And I was 11:51.264 --> 11:51.320 There's a scene and I don't know if you've ever seen a Glen 11:51.320 --> 11:54.912 asked, like, you know where did these deals come from? I'm like, 11:54.968 --> 11:58.110 you know, from the leads you gave me, and they're, like, 11:58.166 --> 12:01.196 those weren't leads, we just gave you a random list of 12:01.253 --> 12:04.676 people. I'm like, are you for real? You know what I mean? And 12:04.732 --> 12:07.874 so that just kind of goes to show that part of it is the 12:07.930 --> 12:11.297 sales sales person. You know what I mean, it wasn't just the 12:11.353 --> 12:14.832 lead itself. And then it gave me some confidence too, to know, 12:14.888 --> 12:18.199 I'm like, I thought they were leads, right. And I felt this 12:18.255 --> 12:21.734 pressure. And I turned them into deals. And now then I started 12:21.790 --> 12:24.821 thinking, well, I guess I could just work with regular 12:24.877 --> 12:26.280 completely cold. Give me. 12:32.590 --> 12:36.490 Garry, Glen Ross. Yeah. Where the guy has done this one, the 12:36.490 --> 12:38.860 old guy in the office is on this one sales call. And it goes 12:38.860 --> 12:41.500 really well. And he's like, you know, give me every lead. And 12:41.500 --> 12:44.590 I'll close them all, right. You kind of get that feeling. You're 12:44.590 --> 12:48.370 on top of the world. Yeah. And in sales and in cold calling. It 12:48.370 --> 12:51.400 only takes a few wins. Yeah. To bring you back up. Because 12:51.400 --> 12:53.350 you're going to even if you're out there being like, I'm a 12:53.350 --> 12:55.960 machine, I can make 100 calls a day. You know, rejection never 12:55.960 --> 12:59.170 hurts me. It will wear you down over time. It absolutely will. 12:59.170 --> 13:02.980 If you have no wins. You need to have some wins. Yeah. 13:03.190 --> 13:04.660 Johny Fernandez: I've been there, man. I've been there. 13:05.080 --> 13:08.770 Where it's just dry and there's nothing and. Yeah. Everything 13:08.770 --> 13:11.350 falls apart. Yeah. Then when you get that one win you're like, 13:11.350 --> 13:11.950 I'm on top of the world. 13:12.310 --> 13:15.970 Sean Murray: Backup to like 100%, the next thousand leads, 13:16.000 --> 13:20.740 I'll close them all, right. Give me the phonebook. I'll close 13:20.740 --> 13:21.340 everybody. 13:22.870 --> 13:26.020 Johny Fernandez: But yeah, so overall cold calling for the 13:26.020 --> 13:28.990 younger generation. My advice as someone that is part of that 13:28.990 --> 13:32.530 generation is to learn to learn to be rejected. 13:32.590 --> 13:34.000 Sean Murray: Yeah. And you're doing it. You're doing it in 13:34.000 --> 13:34.660 real estate, right? 13:34.660 --> 13:36.785 Johny Fernandez: I'm doing in real estate. Yeah. Yeah. It's 13:36.837 --> 13:40.026 hard. Some people, I think the most painful thing is when you 13:40.078 --> 13:43.372 are working with someone and you know, something happens where, 13:43.424 --> 13:46.299 for example, in rentals, specifically when you're doing 13:46.351 --> 13:49.697 rentals, no one's loyal. So the thing is, they just want to find 13:49.749 --> 13:52.938 a house and whether it's with you or with another broker, you 13:52.990 --> 13:55.917 know, you get that lead and you work with them. And then 13:55.970 --> 13:59.367 sometimes they can just drop you and then you're calling back and 13:59.420 --> 14:02.556 I have no problem calling people like I am a great person to 14:02.608 --> 14:05.693 follow. Like, I love following up with people. So I have no 14:05.745 --> 14:08.934 problem calling people like more than once a day. But I think 14:08.986 --> 14:12.122 that's that's the most hurtful part for me is like when they 14:12.175 --> 14:15.468 just kind of move on with their life and they found a place and 14:15.520 --> 14:18.761 they kind of leave you hanging you're like. Yeah. I spent like 14:18.813 --> 14:21.950 three days with you for days with you. And then you mentally 14:22.002 --> 14:24.930 calculate like, oh, my paycheck could have been X Y & Z. 14:24.930 --> 14:27.330 Sean Murray: Don't do that. Don't. Yeah don't do that. Don't 14:27.330 --> 14:32.280 start counting what your dollars can be. Or could have been. I I 14:32.280 --> 14:34.080 am very guilty. Don't do that. 14:34.110 --> 14:35.850 Johny Fernandez: There is one month I was like 20 grand. 14:35.850 --> 14:37.010 Sean Murray: And nothing good is gonna come. 14:37.850 --> 14:39.260 Johny Fernandez: Everything just fell. 14:39.260 --> 14:41.210 Sean Murray: Nothing good is gonna come from that. That's 14:41.210 --> 14:42.380 that's my personal belief. 14:42.560 --> 14:45.830 Johny Fernandez: I've learned I've learned that, calculated 14:45.830 --> 14:48.860 one of them was like 50. I was like yes. And then everything 14:48.860 --> 14:51.590 fell apart. Yeah. At the end of the month I had zero. 14:51.590 --> 14:55.410 Sean Murray: Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty brutal. Yeah, yeah. I 14:55.410 --> 14:58.830 know people who have gone out and spent what was going to be 14:58.830 --> 15:01.170 essentially their whole commission. I went to find out 15:01.170 --> 15:05.820 that some obscure random reason killed the deal, the closing of 15:05.820 --> 15:09.690 the deal, the next day. And I can't imagine the heartbreak of 15:09.690 --> 15:11.910 that. And first of all, there's the regret of spending the money 15:12.210 --> 15:14.460 already. You know what I mean, like and it was out on like the, 15:14.550 --> 15:17.490 you know, partying, and which probably wasn't a good use of 15:17.490 --> 15:21.510 it. And then to find out afterwards that that money 15:21.510 --> 15:24.270 wasn't even coming. And now, they got a huge credit card 15:24.270 --> 15:27.630 bill. But that's a different issue. Yeah. That's a different 15:27.630 --> 15:30.750 issue. Like if, if you a close the deal off of cold calling, 15:30.780 --> 15:33.630 and it's seems like it's our opinion, that it still works. 15:33.720 --> 15:36.360 And this isn't just our subject, you know, you're doing it. 15:36.390 --> 15:38.850 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. I'm doing it in real life like now. 15:38.910 --> 15:42.960 Sean Murray: Yeah, I am not cold calling anymore. I have. 15:42.960 --> 15:44.130 Johny Fernandez: Those days are over for you. 15:44.690 --> 15:46.190 Sean Murray: Yeah, well, I don't know if they're permanently 15:46.190 --> 15:50.840 over. Right. And I can't afford to ignore all types of marketing 15:51.110 --> 15:57.590 opportunities out there. You know, but what I was doing in 15:57.590 --> 16:01.760 the past could still work. You know, I don't I don't see that 16:01.760 --> 16:06.050 anything different has changed. In fact, I think it would 16:06.050 --> 16:10.820 probably be better to get a cold call than to get a random text 16:10.820 --> 16:13.970 from someone I don't know. Because I'm personally never 16:13.970 --> 16:16.160 going to answer a random text from someone. Absolutely. 16:16.670 --> 16:17.210 No matter what. 16:17.210 --> 16:19.520 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. Cause I'll think it's fraud. I'll 16:19.520 --> 16:22.190 think. Yeah. Just a bunch of things. And. 16:23.480 --> 16:25.460 Sean Murray: But just before, even before we got out, you 16:25.460 --> 16:28.190 know, we got here on the air, I got a call. And I thought it was 16:28.190 --> 16:31.160 from somebody else, cause it was from the area code of somebody I 16:31.160 --> 16:34.370 was expecting a call from, but if it had been a salesperson, 16:34.880 --> 16:38.840 and not a computer, who knows? Yeah. You know here I was on the 16:38.840 --> 16:44.600 phone. Right. And, you know, so that's an amazing opportunity to 16:44.600 --> 16:47.000 have that interactions better than just, you know, dropping me 16:47.000 --> 16:51.440 a text or sending me a random email. So it looks like we're 16:51.500 --> 16:53.120 we're still on board with cold calling. 16:53.300 --> 16:54.680 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, absolutely. 16:54.680 --> 16:55.010 Sean Murray: Yeah. 16:55.700 --> 16:57.800 Johny Fernandez: Alright Sean. So this next topic is something 16:57.800 --> 17:00.620 that we have been talking about for a couple of days. You and I 17:00.620 --> 17:08.120 personally. So walk us through the situation. And can we can 17:08.120 --> 17:11.000 kind of unfold. Okay. Everything else that's going on. 17:11.000 --> 17:14.150 Sean Murray: Sure. Yeah. And I think we have talked about it on 17:14.150 --> 17:21.770 the show a little bit in regards to the consequences of PPP, if 17:21.770 --> 17:24.740 people didn't use the money in the way that they were supposed 17:24.740 --> 17:28.850 to, like if you're an underwriter. And you've seen 17:28.850 --> 17:32.150 that a business got PPP you're like, okay, great. But what if 17:32.150 --> 17:35.210 that business got more than they were supposed to get is the 17:35.210 --> 17:38.210 government going to come back and try to get the rest of the 17:38.210 --> 17:40.430 money from them, right, and all of a sudden, like, now this 17:40.430 --> 17:43.160 business owes money to the government, for the for the 17:43.190 --> 17:46.160 overage amount of PPP that they weren't supposed to get, and 17:46.160 --> 17:48.890 it's becoming a new risk factor that perhaps underwriters are 17:48.890 --> 17:52.220 gonna have to work out for. Yep. And perhaps even sales guys have 17:52.220 --> 17:56.060 an opportunity. Because you could be literally, those 17:56.060 --> 17:59.570 businesses might need money. Like if they got $100,000 PPP 17:59.570 --> 18:01.520 loan, the government's like, hey, you were only supposed to 18:01.520 --> 18:05.660 get 50, you owe us the other 50 back. They're like I spent it on 18:05.660 --> 18:07.760 spent, I spent it on payroll and did all the things that I was 18:07.760 --> 18:10.700 supposed to do, I don't have the 50k, all of a sudden, they need 18:10.730 --> 18:13.760 they need the money, right. And so if you're a salesperson, and 18:13.760 --> 18:16.160 you were bummed by PPP, and it was interfering with your 18:16.160 --> 18:18.980 business all this time, because it was essentially free money, 18:19.610 --> 18:22.880 you can run into a new type of opportunity, or you can turn it 18:22.880 --> 18:25.970 into an opportunity in that. And we don't know how this is gonna 18:25.970 --> 18:29.120 unfold. We don't know how it's gonna unfold. But we're starting 18:29.120 --> 18:32.900 to get a clue. I'm building up to what you were saying. But we 18:32.900 --> 18:35.240 could run into a situation where the government is doing its own 18:35.240 --> 18:38.090 calculations and determining that a lot of people owe a 18:38.090 --> 18:40.580 percentage of the PPP money back, not because it wasn't 18:40.580 --> 18:44.690 forgivable, but because the amount they they said that they 18:44.690 --> 18:47.570 qualified for was just wrong, you know, they overstated what 18:47.570 --> 18:50.060 they were supposed to get, they got too much. And now that 18:50.090 --> 18:53.390 percentage, you know, or whatever amount is owed back, 18:53.390 --> 18:56.660 which brings us to what I think you were talking about, because 18:56.660 --> 19:00.680 what we've been what we've been talking about. Yeah. And that is 19:01.340 --> 19:04.850 what people are going to do if they're in these situations. And 19:05.270 --> 19:07.700 we have seen and I'm not going to name any names. Yeah. You 19:07.700 --> 19:12.230 know what I mean. We'll keep it nameless. But there is a a 19:12.230 --> 19:16.280 campaign on GoFundMe GoFundMe.com, the donation 19:16.280 --> 19:21.530 fundraising site, where someone essentially said that they are 19:21.530 --> 19:26.360 raising money to pay back their PPP loan, and you're like, well, 19:26.360 --> 19:31.610 why if it's forgivable, and they seem to suggest that perhaps 19:31.610 --> 19:37.250 they had, I don't know misled or defrauded the government, they 19:37.250 --> 19:40.010 weren't supposed to get this money. You know, something about 19:40.100 --> 19:45.380 the word jail was used in the in the in the campaign, and they 19:45.380 --> 19:48.770 were hoping that people would be able to essentially from what it 19:48.770 --> 19:49.280 looked like. 19:50.540 --> 19:51.740 Johny Fernandez: That personnel. 19:51.770 --> 19:52.790 Sean Murray: Tell you, help them out. 19:53.660 --> 19:56.300 Johny Fernandez: Pretty much bail them out before going to 19:56.300 --> 19:59.330 the actual jail. Yeah. But I think what was interesting what 19:59.330 --> 20:01.640 I found interesting was that people were going to that 20:01.640 --> 20:06.050 extremes, you know, to set up a GoFundMe page to pretty much 20:06.050 --> 20:08.930 help them, you know, and like I said, this is something we don't 20:08.930 --> 20:12.860 know if we'll see more of, but still seeing that, and using 20:12.860 --> 20:16.160 that platform to just get the money, and it's not like $100. 20:16.490 --> 20:19.850 Like. Yeah. It's like 1000s of dollars that you're like. Yeah. 20:21.320 --> 20:25.220 Yeah. I don't know if like that. Like, that's just a lot of 20:25.220 --> 20:25.490 money. 20:25.570 --> 20:28.000 Sean Murray: Yeah. And I was going on on GoFundMe and 20:28.000 --> 20:31.180 searching around to see what else was on there, in relation 20:31.180 --> 20:33.700 to what we're talking about. And there were a lot of people on 20:33.700 --> 20:36.670 there who said, businesses who are on there who said that they 20:36.670 --> 20:39.820 got PPP. And it wasn't enough, because they used it only for 20:39.820 --> 20:42.100 payroll, but it didn't actually help their business. And they 20:42.100 --> 20:45.430 were looking for donations to keep their business open. And 20:45.430 --> 20:47.830 then there were some who said they didn't get PPP. For 20:47.830 --> 20:49.810 whatever reason, I don't know if they weren't eligible, or they 20:49.810 --> 20:52.720 didn't have the time or your bank wouldn't help them out. 20:52.750 --> 20:55.210 Wouldn't help them out. I don't know. But there were those 20:55.210 --> 20:58.450 seeking donations for their business, because they weren't 20:58.450 --> 21:01.480 able to get PPP. And that brought us to this other one 21:01.480 --> 21:05.350 where someone apparently may not have had a business and got PPP, 21:05.620 --> 21:07.900 and needs the money not to keep the business open, but 21:07.900 --> 21:13.330 supposedly to not go to jail. Yeah. And it'd be weird. Who 21:13.330 --> 21:16.210 knows if that would be actually become a trend where people are 21:16.660 --> 21:24.700 seeking donations to kind of pay back whatever type of 21:24.820 --> 21:27.730 potentially illegal or fraudulent conduct they 21:27.730 --> 21:30.970 participated in? During 2020. I think we've said it We've said 21:30.970 --> 21:33.370 it on here that. Yeah. I think a lot of people did things they 21:33.370 --> 21:34.630 weren't supposed to in 2020. 21:34.630 --> 21:35.080 Johny Fernandez: Because they, I do remember the specific 21:36.430 --> 21:37.630 conversation that we had was that people, you know, in 2020 21:37.630 --> 21:47.290 thought, I think it was very single mindedly thought out that 21:47.470 --> 21:51.550 we're in 2020. And nothing's going to happen, because we 21:51.580 --> 21:56.200 didn't really see the end of the light, end of the tunnel, for 21:56.230 --> 21:59.110 you know, 2020, because there was COVID. And like, no one knew 21:59.110 --> 22:02.470 what was going on. But now a year later that things are back 22:02.470 --> 22:06.280 to normal. Yeah. You know, and that end and I remember telling 22:06.280 --> 22:09.640 you this, that people are, like, you know, government officials, 22:09.760 --> 22:12.550 whoever, the government, local government, federal government, 22:12.550 --> 22:15.070 like they will get their money back regardless. Yeah. They will 22:15.070 --> 22:17.110 ask for it, and they will hunt you down, and they will get it. 22:17.350 --> 22:19.660 Yeah. And that's something we talked about, I remember here 22:20.080 --> 22:22.840 was that people sometimes just disregarded everything, and 22:22.840 --> 22:25.930 they're like, it's 2020, to free for all. It's COVID. It's COVID. 22:26.410 --> 22:29.230 But the reality is, is that it's not and that they're gonna, 22:29.260 --> 22:30.970 they're gonna get their money back, they're gonna want the 22:30.970 --> 22:33.610 money back, whether you use it for the right reasons or not. 22:34.360 --> 22:37.570 And whether it's PVP, whether we talked about, like unemployment, 22:37.570 --> 22:40.690 like, you know, that's a fairly common thing, too, that, you 22:40.690 --> 22:43.360 know, they they gave you a certain amount of money that, 22:43.390 --> 22:48.040 you know, technically wasn't your amount. That corresponded 22:48.040 --> 22:51.430 for you. And, you know, that's another thing that, you know, 22:51.430 --> 22:52.870 people they're gonna ask for their money back. 22:52.870 --> 22:55.510 Sean Murray: Yeah, we just shared a link to an article, it 22:55.540 --> 22:57.520 wasn't even an article, it was an announcement from the from 22:57.520 --> 23:02.980 the DOJ, talking about how it was a senior official at NASA, 23:03.730 --> 23:07.150 had fraudulently applied for a PPP loan, when I guess they 23:07.150 --> 23:11.590 didn't have a business and got a significant amount of money. 23:11.860 --> 23:14.170 And, you know, they were arrested. And so it's not just 23:14.170 --> 23:17.620 about paying it back. Right. You're gonna get you're gonna 23:17.620 --> 23:21.190 get in trouble. Some people are actually going to go to jail for 23:21.220 --> 23:23.590 you know, it's COVID. You know, everyone will understand it 23:23.590 --> 23:26.860 turns out, the government is not proving to be that 23:26.860 --> 23:31.480 understanding, so far. And I, it's kind of, it's not a full 23:31.480 --> 23:33.760 prediction, but it's one of those things where I think could 23:33.760 --> 23:37.960 happen, that we could see the government go and do their own 23:37.960 --> 23:40.360 calculations and determine that a lot of people got more than 23:40.360 --> 23:44.410 they were supposed to, and you create all this, essentially 23:44.440 --> 23:47.860 debt that is now owed back to the government for PPP money, 23:48.250 --> 23:50.620 the amount they weren't supposed to get, and that for if you're a 23:50.620 --> 23:54.400 salesperson, this could be your way to step in and say, hey, I 23:54.400 --> 23:58.090 hear you owe the government, you know, we can help fund you to 23:58.090 --> 24:01.510 get that squared away. I would probably rather owe a small 24:01.510 --> 24:06.130 business funding company than like, you know, the government 24:06.250 --> 24:08.500 especially if they're sitting there calculating you know how 24:08.500 --> 24:10.810 much I wasn't you know, how much I got I wasn't supposed to get 24:10.870 --> 24:13.420 that would probably make me feel a little uneasy. Just me 24:13.420 --> 24:13.720 You know what I was thinking this, I guess kind of related to 24:13.720 --> 24:13.800 personally. 24:13.800 --> 24:15.863 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. No, I agree. I think I think the 24:15.921 --> 24:19.533 reality is anytime you mess with the government, you're pretty 24:19.591 --> 24:23.203 much gonna be out of luck. Yeah. Like it's a very straight and 24:23.261 --> 24:26.873 black and white with them. It's. Yeah. There's no gray area at 24:26.931 --> 24:30.543 all. But I think it's something like I said, we said it before 24:30.601 --> 24:34.271 that, now that there's an end in sight. I believe forCOVID, you 24:34.329 --> 24:37.941 know, with the vaccine and all that it's, you know, same thing 24:37.999 --> 24:41.727 goes for moratoriums, especially in places like New York, people 24:41.785 --> 24:45.222 haven't paid rent in almost a year. Yeah. There people are, 24:45.280 --> 24:48.950 everyoene's going to get their money back in some way, shape or 24:49.008 --> 24:50.640 form, that's what I believe. 24:52.960 --> 24:56.800 cold calling, is that when I was going on GoFundMe, and looking 24:56.800 --> 25:00.700 up PPP, here's all these small businesses that are essentially 25:00.700 --> 25:04.870 seeking funds. Now I get that they're looking for donations. 25:05.350 --> 25:08.980 But these are businesses looking for money, and you can search 25:08.980 --> 25:14.560 them for free on the internet. And who knows, that might be a 25:14.560 --> 25:18.610 lead. You know what I mean, perhaps these are people who 25:18.610 --> 25:22.210 might be interested in whatever it is you have. Now I get that 25:22.210 --> 25:25.780 they're looking for donations. But if you just type in PPP 25:25.780 --> 25:28.120 GoFundMe.com, you didn't hear it from me, even though you're 25:28.120 --> 25:32.650 hearing it from me, type in PPP and GoFundMe.com. You're gonna 25:32.650 --> 25:35.260 see some businesses, a bunch of them on there who are looking 25:35.260 --> 25:42.160 for funding to, you know, to survive, or whatever. And so, I 25:42.160 --> 25:45.430 don't know, that's actually rare. It's rare nowadays, to 25:45.430 --> 25:48.460 find an online website in which people are looking for money in 25:48.460 --> 25:51.040 which you don't have to pay like a million dollars to, you know, 25:51.040 --> 25:53.410 to kind of like view and look through and all that stuff. 25:55.370 --> 25:59.600 Jeez. Yeah. You're saving yourself a ton of money. I'm all 25:59.600 --> 26:00.110 about that. 26:00.170 --> 26:02.210 Sean Murray: Yeah. So I think after this is over, I'm gonna 26:02.210 --> 26:03.890 probably start cold calling those people. 26:03.920 --> 26:09.320 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. I had to do it all the time. It's great 26:09.320 --> 26:09.710 practice. 26:09.710 --> 26:12.380 Sean Murray: Yeah. And maybe if you type in, who knows? Maybe 26:12.380 --> 26:14.510 people maybe there's some real estate leads in there. 26:15.710 --> 26:17.450 Johny Fernandez: We'll just have to check it out. 26:17.480 --> 26:17.930 Sean Murray: Yeah. 26:18.410 --> 26:20.210 Johny Fernandez: Cool. Well, that's it for today, Sean. 26:20.210 --> 26:23.210 That's all we got for today. You have any plans for the weekend? 26:23.750 --> 26:24.740 Sean Murray: Isn't it only Wednesday? 26:25.910 --> 26:26.870 Johny Fernandez: I'm looking towards Friday. 26:26.870 --> 26:28.560 Sean Murray: You're already down for the week already? 26:28.560 --> 26:29.000 Johny Fernandez: I'm sorry. 26:34.190 --> 26:35.990 Sean Murray: For me the week it feels like it's just starting. 26:36.320 --> 26:36.770 Yeah. 26:37.200 --> 26:38.220 Johny Fernandez: It's already over in my life. 26:38.250 --> 26:39.990 Sean Murray: It's already it's already over for you? Okay. 26:40.500 --> 26:43.200 Well, yeah I don't know what my weekend plans are just yet since 26:43.200 --> 26:45.390 the weeks you know, still pretty still pretty new. 26:47.640 --> 26:48.990 Johny Fernandez: What are my plans? I don't know yet. 26:49.020 --> 26:50.370 Sean Murray: Yeah. Yeah, okay. Well, it seems like yeah, it 26:50.370 --> 26:51.660 seems like yours are all lined up. 26:51.660 --> 26:54.120 Johny Fernandez: They kind of are, yeah. I like to plan my 26:54.120 --> 26:57.480 weeks in advance. Clearly. Yeah. Like I have everything set up 26:57.480 --> 27:00.390 for this week. Next week. Who I'm gonna, I do have a list of 27:00.390 --> 27:03.780 who I'm gonna cold call today too. You do? Yeah, I do. Heck 27:03.780 --> 27:07.080 yeah, I wake up at 5am go for you know, I'm very structured. 27:07.500 --> 27:09.150 Not really. no, it's a lot. 27:09.750 --> 27:11.430 Sean Murray: What are your Fourth of July plans? 27:12.300 --> 27:13.710 Johny Fernandez: I'm going to Florida actually. 27:14.250 --> 27:17.490 Sean Murray: You already. You already planned it. Okay. So 27:17.490 --> 27:19.860 yeah, well, some people plan well in advance. 27:20.340 --> 27:22.110 Johny Fernandez: You know, you know what I'm doing later on in 27:22.110 --> 27:22.590 the year? 27:23.430 --> 27:23.970 Sean Murray: What are you doing? 27:23.990 --> 27:26.750 Johny Fernandez: Attending Broker Fair. Oh, for that 27:26.750 --> 27:32.150 information, deBanked.com, December sixth. I'll be there. 27:32.180 --> 27:35.750 You'll be there. In New York. In New York. In New York. So you 27:35.750 --> 27:38.750 guys check it out. If you want more information on that. Yeah. 27:38.750 --> 27:40.370 Have that planned out, set. 27:40.420 --> 27:42.910 Sean Murray: Yeah. Oh, and I'm supposed to tell you all out 27:42.910 --> 27:47.140 there. You should subscribe to deBanked. We have subscribe 27:47.140 --> 27:51.220 buttons all over the site. Click it, put in your information. We 27:51.220 --> 27:54.340 send out only a handful of email newsletters per month. We also 27:54.340 --> 27:57.190 send out some promotions from people within the industry 27:57.190 --> 28:00.250 itself. We don't sell your information to anybody it stays 28:00.310 --> 28:03.040 completely in house. And so subscribe, you'll get all the 28:03.040 --> 28:08.230 news and info about deBanked events, headlines, what's going 28:08.230 --> 28:12.040 on, deBanked TV. So go ahead and do that. 28:13.480 --> 28:15.820 Johny Fernandez: So, again, I'm Johny Fernandez. 28:15.850 --> 28:17.020 Sean Murray: Closing out the weekend. 28:17.020 --> 28:20.910 Johny Fernandez: Closing out the weekend. And who are you? 28:20.970 --> 28:22.860 Sean Murray: I'm Sean Murray, and I'll see you next time. 28:22.860 --> 28:23.760 Johny Fernandez: See you guys next time.