Johny Fernandez: Hey I'm Johny Fernandez
Sean Murray: I'm Sean Murray, Sean Murray with deBanked Live.
Johny Fernandez: This is live as it gets
Sean Murray: Literally watch me run into the studio and get
mic'd up
Johny Fernandez: and then get mic'd up, that's, that's
authenticity.
Sean Murray: Yeah. So today we're the correspondents. And
we're also the tech team is if there's any, you know, technical
difficulties
Johny Fernandez: Any glitches,
Sean Murray: You can blame the tech team, which is us
Johny Fernandez: We're sorry. We're sorry. We're, we apologize
in advance. So Sean?
Sean Murray: Yeah.
Johny Fernandez: Have you been?
Sean Murray: I've been okay, how about you?
Johny Fernandez: I've been Alright. We're back. We're back.
Took a couple couple weeks off, but we're back. So I'm back. You
Sean Murray: We'll I'm happy to have you back.
Johny Fernandez: Thank you can't complain. So Sean, you want to
start, start kind of recapping everything. So first topic is
going to be COJs? Let's talk a little bit about that.
Sean Murray: Yeah. So we just put out a story. On our website.
It's about putting a proposal to ban COJs nationwide, you out
there might be thinking like, wait a minute, this is an old
story COJs have already been banned. And I think what has
gotten lost in some of the translation is that the law that
came out a few years ago in in New York, it wasn't a federal
law. Yeah. It was totally addressing COJs in New York
State. It didn't actually apply to any other state. Yeah. And
what what that law said that you can't file a COJ in the New York
State courts against non New York State businesses, and
residents. Yeah. And so that was kind of a landmark decision,
because New York happened to be the primary venue for people to
file the COJs in. And that's because the court system there
was so friendly, and efficient at filing them and giving you
judgment. Yeah, because you can have confessions of judgment in
other states. But New York has happened to be able to get it
done quicker. Like some states, they require like a special
notice, you have to tell someone, you're gonna file the
COJ, you have to wait 30 days, if you don't check the boxes
off, and you don't you're not going to get your judgment. New
York would just like, you know, file it, bam, judgment go, you
know what I mean? So, when we talked about the end of the COJ
era, a couple years ago, we were specifically talking about New
York, and that did kind of end the you know, the the widespread
use of COJs, at least that pertain to the to the small
business financing industry. And so now, when we re-introduced
the topic of a COJ, COJ ban, this is at the federal level.
And they're already banned on consumer loans. Yeah. So what
they want to do now is band COJs is at the business and
commercial level for every single state, because
technically right now you can go and file a COJ in another state.
But it requires you to have the merchant sign a non New York
State COJ, right. So you can't just use the old COJ from like
five years ago, you'd have to go and use the one properly
formatted to the state that you did the transaction in, and then
you have to comply with all the local rules. They're, they're
trying to just eliminate it across the board. And they're
citing the Bloomberg story. Yeah, from a long time ago that
came out. So it seems like they're, you know, they're still
hot on? Yes. So I guess solving, you know, this, this what they
perceive as an issue. And it's actually it's got some
bipartisan support too this guy, Marco Rubio and Sherrod Brown,
are the two co-sponsors of the bill. You know, you have a
Republican and Democrat. But what's interesting is that, even
though it's bipartisan, they've been proponents of the bill
before this bill has come out before. It came out 2018, came
out in 2019. Last year, they skipped it probably because of
it, it was a presidential election year. And it's now just
come back. So if you're out there wondering, well, what's
the big deal about a COJ ban? They're they're talking about
now banning them entirely nationwide
Johny Fernandez: Versus just a state like the state of New
York.
Sean Murray: Yeah, just versus versus New York, and what might
be different this time versus the last two times it's been
attempted? Is that before there were they a party? They know
there was a firm republican control of the Senate. So even
though somebody like Marco Rubio, who was a Republican
Senator, I don't think the bill had that type of support in the
Senate at large. It might now you're supposed to be Marco
Rubio, if you have some Republicans who are willing to
sign on to it. Yeah, this bill could go through. You also have
a democratic president before we had a republican president,
Republican controlled Senate. And I think that might be
partially why the bill died. So if you still use COJs, or you
competed against them, this whole, you know, era of COJs
might be coming to an end totally. But obviously, we'll
just keep everyone updated on like, What's going
Johny Fernandez: Yeah, as it continues to develop and what
happens to it. So keep keep your eye out on debanked.com. Yeah.
So Sean, the next topic, we're going to talk about is when he
talks about COVID-19 vaccine cards. They'll transition us
into the topic after that. But something that was interesting
was obviously, we've talked a lot about, like, you know, how
to, like, how do you make money fast? And how do you know pretty
much we can inform our audience. We're not definitely not telling
our audience to do this. But the story that came out recently was
that there was someone, the there was an account on eBay
that was linked into with a pharmaceutical pharmacists
account. And it looks like he was selling fake COVID-19
vaccination cards. So he didn't make millions of dollars, you
know, he made a couple $1,000, he was selling these cards for
$10. And those cards specifically, were completely
false. And they were using these cards to sell to people and
people could pretty much show like they've been vaccinated,
but the card itself is completely invalid. And
apparently, they're paying up to like $10 for one and the guy
knows
Sean Murray: $10 for a fake back for fake vaccine card?
Johny Fernandez: It's interesting to say like, in the
article, what was interesting was that the actual card itself
was like the goal was to for people to use it so they can get
into different places and show their vaccine card. But
obviously, like the big, you know, problem with that is that
these people aren't vaccinated. Yes, using this card. Yeah. So
it's really interesting, because now it's like, this is
completely gone. You know, people are 2making money, again,
using faulty information. We both like faulty cards and their
information on it. And it's really interesting to see, you
know, this guy, obviously, he's in big trouble now. And he's ,
going through the court process. And I don't know what his
sentencing will be and all that. But
Sean Murray: It's interesting that he's in trouble, because as
soon maybe he was selling like a novelty vaccine card that seems
to be like house certain, like, counterfeiters will get away
with selling , it's like a big, big issue in the lending
industry is selling the sale of counterfeit bank statements
where you can. I don't know if it's eBay, but you could go onto
like Craigslist, or one of the listing sites, and you could buy
fake bank statements, or fake leases or fake checks are
whatever it is. And the way that the seller would try to
circumvent it being a scam and that they would sell it. It's
like, it's a novelty, the novelty novelty bank statement,
you know, so I don't know if this guy, you know, was trying
at least added the novelty where he didn't put all fake. Yeah,
you know, and in the thing, but I've seen that sellers who sell
fake stuff. They they put that in there. And it's interesting.
You say he got he already got in trouble.
Johny Fernandez: He got like two weeks
Sean Murray: Getting sued or something. Yeah. You know, that.
That seems like never happened to people selling like, novel,
novel novelty bank statements. Like, they seem to get away with
it for long periods of time. But I guess in this day and age, you
know, the whole idea of something about COVID being , is
taken to like a whole nother level.
Johny Fernandez: Yeah, it's, it's,it's interesting, because,
I mean, we've talked about it, like, he probably made about
like, maybe anywhere from 1000 to like, $3,000 off of this and
for like him to get in trouble to go to that extent for $15,000
I don't know if it's worth
Sean Murray: No sound like, like, now that doesn't sound too
good.
Johny Fernandez: No.
Sean Murray: But I think there's gonna be a lot of kind of like,
what's real, and like, what's not real debate, and like, the
next few months, because like, if you go into a sporting event,
you have to show your vaccine card, you know, the idea of
whether or not it's going to be, you know, whether or not it's
real or not, I think if you're, if you're out there and you're
in the lending or the funding industry, you're gonna have to
deal with some kind of the same stuff. Now, they're not gonna
have to ask you borrowers or business owners or whatever, are
vaccinated. I don't know that they can ask that. But I think
they're gonna have to determine probably what's real, you're
gonna have to determine out there what's real, what's not
real, because in the olden days, olden days being year and a half
ago, advantage went to the scale players. Yeah, if you could
automate everything, you were essentially winning the game,
because you could just approve things and fun things just
faster than everything else, everybody else. And now that I
don't know that advantage goes to the skill players, I think
advantage goes to the manual players, because there's going
to be all these legacy issues that a lot of businesses have
behind the scenes that aren't going to be right there evident
on the bank statement, because you might see that sales are
good, right? But you don't know that they owe 11 month's rent.
Yeah, right. Or that they haven't paid their tax, or the
bag just in general.
Johny Fernandez: They have because at the end of the day, I
mean It's been a year and some change of, you know, some people
not paying their bills and some people trying to get out of the
hole. Yeah, you know the COVID hole, of like, just trying to
like figure out like, you know, like, dig themselves out of the
problems that they had. And so yeah,
Sean Murray: And that's the whole thing, right? Like the
ones who if you're evaluating a small business right now you're
like, Oh, they survived to COVID. They're good, you know
that that type of strength is looked at as a good sign. But
you might not know why they a survived. Yeah, you don't I
mean, or you might think you do. But you but you don't know the
whole story. Yeah. And I know that it's pretty common to look
at whether or not someone is up to date on your on their rent,
but you're going to have a landlord probably, the landlord
may not be as candid as they once were, if they thought that
they were going to get a piece of whatever, whatever, whatever
you are going to fund them. And I think that that creates an
issue. Even if there's moratoriums on evictions and
stuff like. Well, there's a moratorium on evictions. I think
what it comes down to is that when you're dealing with small
business, is that's a lot of, you know, personal relationships
between the business owner and the landlord. You know, what I
mean, to work things out, that you're not exactly, you know,
that kind of falls outside the bounds of the law says; You
can't do this right. And so you, you fund someone thinking,
you're, you're under the impression that everything's
gonna be fine, or the moratorium on fiction, etc. And then that
personal relationship between the landlord and the business
just breaks down. Yeah, right. You can't really like catify,
that I can't really just like, create some sort of model to
understand what's happening in these conversations. . And so I
think that puts everybody at risk. And so if you're, if
you're a manual underwriting company, you probably have the
advantage, or at least the opportunity now to delve into
that, because that's probably what you're already really good
at. And it goes for tax too. I'm sure lots of business owners.
And I don't know if they were completely up to date on their
tax write. And also PPP. You might say, hey, they got PPP
money. Great. But we don't know what's going to happen if people
got more than they we're supposed to for PPP. And whether
or not the government is going to come calling back and say,
Hey, come pay me. I know that the amount beyond what you were
actually eligible for, like if somebody was only supposed to
get to 50k and they got 100k. And you're just looking at the
statements are like, hey, they got they got PPP. Good for them.
Yeah, you know, they survive. And then you fund them in the
government's like, hey, I want 50k. Back. We don't know what
the government's going to do in terms of forcement. Like, if
it's not outright fraud, we've seen all the headlines for
fraud. But when it comes down to people who just got, you know,
that wasn't fraud, do they mean it was like kind of like a
mistake or someone did the numbers wrong, or, you know, the
rules are changing so quickly, so they don't really know what
happened. But I think it will be important to find out how the
government starts trading, what I believe are probably a lot of
overpayments in PPP. And that could be a risk factor in the in
the, in the funding that you give to merchants, because what
if I just kind of send out notices all at once, you know, I
mean, like, hey, to pay us back this, whatever overage can also
be an opportunity, I suppose. If you're like a lender or broker
that you're gonna you could encounter a lot of businesses or
like, I need money, because I took too much PPP. Yeah. Now the
government wants it back. But I spent it because I was supposed
to. So and now they want it back quick. So that could be one of
those opportunities, like people got overpaid PPP. Now the money
from a lender online funding company to make good with the
government.
Johny Fernandez: It's what a year.
Sean Murray: Yeah.
Johny Fernandez: Well, Sean, that's all for today.
Sean Murray: No, no, there was one. There was one other thing.
That was one of the thing. Well, we haven't put the story up yet.
But I want to talk about it anyway.
Johny Fernandez: Alright.
Sean Murray: It's, um, the story is gonna come up. There's, the
story's gonna come out later, but I already want to talk about
it because I find it so fascinating. It has to do with
kind of innovation in this, in the funding world. I saw a
commercial last week, and it was called an inheritance, cash
advance. And normally you'd be like, Okay, so what, but all the
language they were using related to inheritance, inheritance,
cash advance, sounded very much like a merchant cash advance.
They were actually saying that they were that they will buy the
future receivables of an heir.
Johny Fernandez: And then they said, You're heir, I'm a heir.
Yeah. We're all heirs.
Sean Murray: Yeah, they're like you no heirs, no heirs, like,
yeah, it was like heirs, like, you know what I mean, if you're
an heir and you need access to your cash, no, we're here and I
just thought it was so interesting that first of all,
the word heir I always think that makes me think of like Game
of Thrones. Yeah, I mean, like, like, or like or like the royal
family.
Johny Fernandez: Yeah. Like you're an air. Here's the heir
like, yeah. To your money.
Sean Murray: Yeah. And it talks. So, frankly, about being an
heir, heir heirs like you eloquently do, but I actually
think it's an innovative kind of solution. Yeah. Because it, at
least according to the commercials that I watched, it
can take up to a year and a half, supposedly, through the
court system,
Johny Fernandez: The court systems what we'll end with
these guys, it can take up to three days.
Sean Murray: They can fund you your future inheritance in as
little as three days. Yeah. And it's not alone against your
future inheritance either very, they're very carefully
explained. They say that it was that there are buying your
future inheritance, receivables, you're buying your future
inheritance payments. It's not a loan. And you know, I wonder if
that's actually going to be a booming industry in the future?
Like, surely there are people who that would have benefited
before. But I think we're living in a in a day and age of there's
a need for capital, and money and funding and all that stuff.
And I think it's possible that, and I don't haven't read up that
much on the industry. But to think that they're especially,
you know, the whole boomers, and you know, Gen Z and all this
stuff, and you have you have all these boomers, right, yeah. That
the idea of get access to your inheritance faster, could
actually become an interesting area of opportunity.
Johny Fernandez: Because it's quick. It's not quick money, but
it's faster money than
Sean Murray: Well, it's quick. I mean, I suppose, I guess
compared to how long, I've never received any inheritance, I
don't have outbursts can take so whatever. But it's interesting
to think about how if you were to be in a position where you
stand to receive some inheritance, you could actually
be dealing with a company and very similar to what a merchant
cashprovider does.
Johny Fernandez: It'll be interesting to see. And, like we
talked about it, too. It's a fairly new concept, too. So it's
like, you know, it will be interesting to see how how it
works and how people respond to it. Because like we've said,
like, it's very similar, like, the language, everything is very
similar to MCA. That it's like, seems like a copy paste. Yeah. I
mean, we'll see what happens. We'll see how I mean, these guys
have been around for years.
Sean Murray: Yeah. They said something like 20 years.
Sean Murray: And I mean, I'm surprised I had not heard
Johny Fernandez: Yeah
encountered it or heard of it since then. I mean, we're in the
last 20 years. But I guess it's out there and the way that they
throw the throw around the word heir, it just kind of sounded,
like for me, being in the business side, the word merchant
is so commonly thrown around the merchant did this merchant did
that or whatever. And just to hear the lingo, like in the heir
,the heir, you know, all the heirs, heirs and get funded
quick. I don't know if you're out there wondering, you know,
what else, you know, what other innovations are occurring in the
funding industry? Heir financing? Seems to be it's a
hot thing. The hot things happening? Yeah. So if you're an
heir,
Johny Fernandez: Are you there?
Sean Murray: I'm not I am not an heir, at least not that I know
of.
Johny Fernandez: According to the commercial an heir
Sean Murray: According to okay, all right.
Johny Fernandez: According to the commercial, I can't be an
heir. Okay.
Sean Murray: Well, you can be the heir to, you know, a throne,
I guess.
Johny Fernandez: I guess. Yeah. I wish my family had cool heir
things,
Sean Murray: Cool heir, things?
Johny Fernandez: Like, you know, in the will. But
oh, now you know who to call?
Oh, actually, you know, my parents said they're gonna leave
me their house when they die.
Sean Murray: Well, if you can't wait,
Johny Fernandez: There's Heir Funding for me. I'm going to
call them about that. Okay, guys. Let's get this. I need the
money.
Sean Murray: All right. All right. So one person versus
person is already sold. Yeah. So yeah. If you're a broker out
there, this guy is looking for heir funding
Johny Fernandez: On the air.
Sean Murray: All right. Well, thank you for coming to our our
somewhat makeshift livestream today, given that we are lacking
a technical,
Johny Fernandez: Technical,
Sean Murray: Technical onsite technical team. And so
Johny Fernandez: We made it.
Sean Murray: Yea our sign off might be a little awkward as I
am going to have to proceed to run out of here. Run of the room
to turn it off, isn't it? Oh, yeah.
Johny Fernandez: Don't forget your mic.
Sean Murray: Yeah, that would be that would be really funny.
Right out of here and left the mic connected and then
everything justcrashed.
Johny Fernandez: Alright, so what's your name?
Sean Murray: My name is yeah, my name is Sean Murray with deBanke
TV Live. I'm about to sign off and then run out of the room.
Johny Fernandez: I'm Johnny Fernandez. I'm with deBanked TV
and we'll see you next time.