1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,990 Johny Fernandez: Hi, everyone, welcome to deBanked. I'm Johny Fernandez. 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:08,040 Sean Murray: And I'm Sean Murray. 3 00:00:08,100 --> 00:00:13,320 Johny Fernandez: And it is a pleasure to have you guys with us. Monday, fresh starts the week, Sean, how's your weekend? 4 00:00:13,770 --> 00:00:17,760 Sean Murray: Pretty good. Well, it rained a little yesterday, but Saturday. Pretty good. 5 00:00:17,790 --> 00:00:20,490 Johny Fernandez: Great weather. Spring is here. Somewhat. 6 00:00:20,550 --> 00:00:21,150 Sean Murray: Feels like it. 7 00:00:21,180 --> 00:00:23,910 Johny Fernandez: I know. It's kind of windy outside today. But other than that, 8 00:00:23,940 --> 00:00:24,630 Sean Murray: I'll take it though. 9 00:00:24,660 --> 00:00:26,370 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, you know, better than snow. 10 00:00:26,430 --> 00:00:27,060 Sean Murray: That's true. 11 00:00:27,150 --> 00:00:27,540 Johny Fernandez: All right. 12 00:00:28,260 --> 00:00:34,260 All right, let's get straight to it. So Sean, let's discuss Funding Circle. So let's talk a little bit about what's going on with them. 13 00:00:34,450 --> 00:00:42,100 Sean Murray: Okay, so Funding Circle, we put out a story on our website, late last week. So if you're out there in the business finance 14 00:00:42,100 --> 00:00:49,150 community, you're probably familiar with who they are. They are based in the UK, but they also do a significant amount of lending in the US. And 15 00:00:49,150 --> 00:00:56,590 I think everyone was curious as to how much they were doing in the US during the period of COVID. And because they are publicly traded, you 16 00:00:56,590 --> 00:01:05,440 can actually go and find out so they put out their data or their financials, late last week, and we got to see and they reported that 17 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:14,560 they did about $800 million in originations in 2020, just to the US, just to the US side of their business, that does include what they did 18 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:24,100 in the UK. So that's pretty significant. And that actually keeps them pretty high up on the list of top US business funders, which we have a 19 00:01:24,100 --> 00:01:31,540 whole list on our site, in case you're not familiar, you can actually go to deBanked.com, we have a resources tab, you can hover over that go to 20 00:01:31,540 --> 00:01:39,370 the drop down. And there's actually a small business finance, like rankings button, click that, and you should see a list. It's not every 21 00:01:39,370 --> 00:01:48,850 single cell is filled in, we report the data that we have, whether it's from publicly filed documents, or it's self reported, or we have a 22 00:01:48,850 --> 00:01:56,500 pretty good estimate as to what it is. Funding Circle's pretty high on that list. And they revealed a few other interesting tidbits. One was 23 00:01:56,500 --> 00:02:02,200 that more than 90% of their borrowers repaying at the end of 2020. 24 00:02:03,790 --> 00:02:10,510 Johny Fernandez: It's interesting, because we've heard other businesses kind of the opposite, like people were not paying these guys, clearly, 25 00:02:10,540 --> 00:02:15,610 you know, these, you know, they've had a successful year. Despite everything going on. 26 00:02:15,640 --> 00:02:23,050 Sean Murray: Exactly. Yeah. So with consumer lenders, consumer lenders have been reporting like the best year ever. It seemed like and then we 27 00:02:23,050 --> 00:02:32,620 know that early in 2020, that a lot of the business, finance companies, whether it be lending, MCA, whatever, they suffered, pretty greatly 28 00:02:32,620 --> 00:02:42,250 pretty dramatically. And Funding Circle, at least by year end was reporting that more than 90% of the other borrowers were paying. And 29 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:49,540 that might be because, you know, I want to like why, right? You know, like, What was [cross-talk] 30 00:02:49,540 --> 00:02:52,930 Johny Fernandez: Especially 2020. That was like, such a dramatic year for everyone. 31 00:02:52,930 --> 00:02:59,110 Sean Murray: Yeah, it's such a dramatic year. And there are a couple of things. I'm just purely speculating now. But their terms tend to be a 32 00:02:59,110 --> 00:03:06,580 little bit longer than some of your competitors. They'll go out a few years, on a loan. So these are not typically, you know, short term, like 33 00:03:06,580 --> 00:03:15,400 some of their some of the competing products out there in the market who do it for 6 to 12 months. And so that that could definitely play a role. 34 00:03:15,610 --> 00:03:26,080 They also are relatively inexpensive, compared to a lot the other products, and so inexpensive, I would say that they also disclose what 35 00:03:26,140 --> 00:03:35,260 return on investment their investors get. And they are still technically a peer to peer business. 36 00:03:35,340 --> 00:03:42,750 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, like they do they still stay to the core of that versus I know, well, we've seen other companies go from peer to peer to 37 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,420 just becoming a regular institution. 38 00:03:45,450 --> 00:03:51,570 Sean Murray: Yeah. And exactly. And so they've actually stuck with it. And I think it has a lot to do with the fact that peer to peer lending 39 00:03:51,570 --> 00:03:59,880 was pretty successful over in the UK had, you know, government support and backing. And so they kept that model over here. But they disclosed 40 00:04:00,060 --> 00:04:10,590 what the return on investment was for peer to peer investors was in their financials, and it's kind of feeds into what I was saying. In the 41 00:04:10,590 --> 00:04:17,970 last video did what I was just my what I was just myself that there seems to be a belief that a lot of these online lenders are quote 42 00:04:17,970 --> 00:04:28,860 unquote, getting rich. And Funding Circle they broke it out by cohort, cohort saying meaning, like if you found it alone in 2016, here's how 43 00:04:28,860 --> 00:04:39,330 much you would make from loans funded in 2016 over each of the years thereafter, right, if you fund the loan last month, and you if someone 44 00:04:39,330 --> 00:04:44,610 asked you what your loan performance and you just based off loans, you just funding, it's going to be perfect loan performance, because they 45 00:04:44,610 --> 00:04:55,620 haven't had any maturity yet. Right? So Funding Circle, they broke down the cohorts, how loans are performing, and it's from 2016 and on and I 46 00:04:55,620 --> 00:05:04,350 think their best year was under five percent, meaning if you were an investor investing in these business loans, that your return on 47 00:05:04,350 --> 00:05:14,130 investment was essentially 5% was your best that you could have earned. Which I thought was extremely low. For the risk that I know small 48 00:05:14,130 --> 00:05:24,210 businesses pose. And for loans they funded last year, they were projecting a return on investment of 1 to 3%. This is annualized. So 1 49 00:05:24,210 --> 00:05:35,910 to 3% rate of return on investment on the 2021, 2020 cohort. An I was like, Wow, so that's low. And I think that these probably played a 50 00:05:35,910 --> 00:05:47,700 factor the length of the term, the cost, probably played a factor in the performance of their book. And there was, there's another kind of 51 00:05:47,700 --> 00:05:57,090 interesting twist in all that too. And that is that because they're based in the UK, they report all these numbers in pounds, not in 52 00:05:57,090 --> 00:06:09,390 dollars. Yeah. And so when I said they did $800 million a year, in 2020, I had to do that by I had to convert from pounds. And I had to find out 53 00:06:09,390 --> 00:06:15,360 what's the current exchange rate? Now the exchange rate fluctuates over the course of the year that I'm not going to go back and try to time it 54 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:21,030 out what it was each quarter or whatever. So I did. So what's the current exchange rate for the amount of pounds they said, they found in 55 00:06:21,030 --> 00:06:31,530 the US, and the exchange rate, the exchange rate was 1.38. So for every British pound, that's $1.38. And I just thought that number was funny. 56 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:36,690 If you're out there, and you work in the business finance industry, 1.38 probably means a lot to you. Because that's, that's the typical fact 57 00:06:36,690 --> 00:06:45,120 rate that we see out there in the wild. And here's Funding Circle, they have to deal with the 1.38 just on the exchange. And so when people say 58 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:51,570 that 1.38, oh my goodness, that's so expensive. That's just the exchange rate from pounds to dollars. So if you want to go if you want to go to 59 00:06:51,570 --> 00:06:59,340 the UK, with your with your money, you're paying 1.38 just for the privilege of going over there. So it can't be that much to borrow 60 00:06:59,670 --> 00:07:05,190 because that's just the exchange rate, you know, for some for some currencies. So that's what, that's what we learned about Funding Circle 61 00:07:05,220 --> 00:07:05,820 last week. 62 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:11,970 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. So it's interesting. And we'll see, obviously, what kind of turns out this upcoming year and the next year and kind of 63 00:07:11,970 --> 00:07:15,690 start comparing and seeing, you know, how they do this upcoming year? 64 00:07:15,750 --> 00:07:24,120 Sean Murray: Yeah. Oh, I wanted to add one other thing about Funding Circle that. I've often said that the UK market is just as developed as 65 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:34,590 the US. Well, that was my American, kind of, you know, way of thinking about things that we were automatically like the standard and that they 66 00:07:34,590 --> 00:07:44,730 were just our equal, right. Well, in their financial report, they actually said that the UK, is it that this level of maturity, and at the 67 00:07:44,730 --> 00:07:54,840 US market is underdeveloped, that we lag behind their level. And that's a good thing. Because they said it presents a lot of 68 00:07:54,840 --> 00:08:02,310 opportunities. So they look at the US as sort of a rugged, not completely rugged, but a more rugged, untapped market. That not it's not 69 00:08:02,310 --> 00:08:11,400 only five times the size of the UK, but has a lot more growth on that buybacks. So if you're out there in the industry being like a, you know, 70 00:08:11,700 --> 00:08:18,090 have a good times over? Funding Circle is reporting that the good times are just starting. [cross-talk] 71 00:08:19,110 --> 00:08:27,990 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, it's, it's coming. Yeah, exactly. And it'll be interesting to see what happens here, as this as Coronavirus, kind of 72 00:08:27,990 --> 00:08:35,760 starts, hopefully coming to an end, you know, and kind of see the changes that happens within the industry, and then also the market in 73 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:44,250 the UK. So, yeah. So it'll be it'll be interesting to see. So next topic was talk about usury. So let's go ahead and dive into that topic. It's 74 00:08:44,250 --> 00:08:50,130 definitely something that, you know, it's been a common theme in the last couple of days. Let's dive in, Sean. 75 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:58,580 Sean Murray: Sure. Yeah. So usury, it's not usually what people want to talk about when they work in lending, because usury kind of has like a 76 00:08:58,580 --> 00:09:06,440 stigma just attached to the label. But it's something that's very important to talk about, because there was a significant ruling that 77 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:13,250 just came out of New York State. And that is, if this came from the appellate court, the second department of the appellate court in New 78 00:09:13,250 --> 00:09:20,660 York State, this does not apply. federally, this is a New York State ruling that if you are a corporation, and that corporation is the term 79 00:09:20,660 --> 00:09:28,040 Corporation, as defined under the general business law, you can look that up yourself. If you are a corporation, you cannot sue somebody for 80 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:38,180 usury. And usury is basically an interest rate cap, right? If you've gone above above the interest rate cap, you've committed usury. And in 81 00:09:38,180 --> 00:09:47,840 New York State, if you charge more than 25% interest, I think its annualized interest. That is the criminal rate of usury. And this is 82 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:54,710 important to know because if you're if you're newer to the business, right, yeah, why do we have all these definitions and things you can or 83 00:09:54,740 --> 00:10:02,840 cannot say? Well, it's because certain states say you can only charge certain rates of interest. And if you violate some of these rules, you 84 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:09,800 could be committing a criminal act in New York State, and I'm not a lawyer, they can read it yourself and get legal advice. But you know, 85 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:16,760 the point, you know, sort of the the general broad understanding of that, if you charge more than 25% interest in a year, you have committed 86 00:10:16,790 --> 00:10:17,420 a crime. 87 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:19,010 Johny Fernandez: [cross-talk] 88 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:25,090 Sean Murray: I don't know how much jail, I've never invest, like, oh, how much jail time is someone going to get, but you could face jail 89 00:10:25,090 --> 00:10:32,290 time, right. And I, you know, this is this is important for people to know. And so when, when we draw distinctions as to whether or not 90 00:10:32,290 --> 00:10:39,820 something is a loan, or it's a purchase, or a, you know, it's an investment or some of the other thing, it matters, because if you 91 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:46,360 explain things wrong and say things wrong, your contract is wrong, and something is wrong. You don't just, it's not just confusing to the 92 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:54,220 customer, you could actually go into territory where you've committed a crime, you don't want to be in a position, and it's not gonna be good 93 00:10:54,220 --> 00:10:59,380 enough to just blame someone else instead. And now, so if you're, if you're a broker out there, you're new and new to the business. These are 94 00:10:59,380 --> 00:11:07,360 things you need to know you need to know what the rules are in every state, New York State has rules on usury. And if you if you work in MCA, 95 00:11:07,690 --> 00:11:17,350 well, you know, you need to stay on the side of the line that says what you what your product does, is okay. And so what's interesting about 96 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:28,210 this particular topic is that we there was an MCA company that funding a merchant, the name of the company was Global Merchant Cash, and the 97 00:11:28,210 --> 00:11:35,050 merchant breached the contract. I didn't get into the fine particulars, but this is me reading the in of the history of the case, that merchant 98 00:11:35,050 --> 00:11:42,100 breached the contract thing, Global Merchant Cash, filed a confession of judgment. Now, I don't know if this business was in New York, I don't 99 00:11:42,100 --> 00:11:53,740 remember. But the merchant then sued to vacate the judgment. They said, You can't put a judgment on me. It's void automatically, because 100 00:11:53,740 --> 00:12:03,910 the underlying agreement that MCA agreement was criminally usurious. And so therefore, the judgment itself is void. And so they said, Hey, Judge, 101 00:12:03,910 --> 00:12:14,110 you need to void this because the underlying agreement is criminally usurious. And the MCA company filed a motion to dismiss saying, you 102 00:12:14,110 --> 00:12:21,910 know, it's a bunch of a bunch of nonsense. Well, the original trial court with the New York Supreme Court we think, Supreme Court, we think 103 00:12:21,910 --> 00:12:30,100 the US Supreme Court but in New York, [cross-talk] yeah, in New York, the lowest court is the supreme court. And the Supreme Court agreed with 104 00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:37,210 the merchant, that maybe there was some merit to the case didn't say that the merchant won, but maybe there was some merit and the case 105 00:12:37,210 --> 00:12:41,140 cannot could not be dismissed. Sorry. I'm going into all these particulars. But, 106 00:12:41,590 --> 00:12:46,030 Johny Fernandez: but it's interesting, because you can also like see how the example lays out in real life. 107 00:12:46,030 --> 00:12:52,150 Sean Murray: Yeah. And by the way, you might, you know, notice in all of this is that it sounds expensive, because there's a lot of lawyers going 108 00:12:52,150 --> 00:12:58,780 back. And if you're a small finance company, right, and you're in this now you're in this complex litigation over usury, and you're like, wait, 109 00:12:58,780 --> 00:13:06,430 I didn't even know there was a, you know, some type of law. But anyway, the MCA company, Global Merchant Cash appealed, and there was a there's 110 00:13:06,430 --> 00:13:16,810 a whole lot of issues in the case itself. But they appealed on the issue that they couldn't claim usury as a reason for why the judgment should 111 00:13:16,810 --> 00:13:25,480 be vacated. That's the one they're like, that claim itself should be dismissed. Because you can't sue for usury if you're a corporation. And 112 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:32,560 this wasn't a theory that they had. That's what the plain text of New York State law says if you're a corporation, you can't sue is that after 113 00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:41,320 the fact? Hey, you know, this was this was usury. Right? The statute says you can't do that. But guess what hundreds of businesses have 114 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:50,140 tried. They've actually done that. After the transaction has taken place, one side not happy. And he gets situations where the merchant is 115 00:13:50,140 --> 00:13:58,750 suing and saying this was usurious the whole time. It's like, Well, did you get what you wanted? Yes. So they did what you asked. Yes. And you 116 00:13:58,750 --> 00:14:08,560 signed it? Yes. But now, but now, you know, like, it's like one of those weird situations? Well, the appellate court in New York, ruled in favor 117 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:14,830 of Global Merchant Cash, the MCA company. And all they did was read the plain text of New York State law that says if you're a corporation, you 118 00:14:14,830 --> 00:14:23,560 can't sue for usury, even if it was criminal, even if it was alleged to be criminal, right. Now, you can defend you can use that as a defense, 119 00:14:24,220 --> 00:14:33,790 if there's, the MCA company or their funding company or finance company is suing you. Right? And you believe as someone who's been defending 120 00:14:33,790 --> 00:14:41,770 themselves, that was criminally usurious, you could assert that it was, you know, that was usury as a defense. But you can't go on the attack. 121 00:14:41,890 --> 00:14:47,710 Like if someone gave you exactly what you want it, you want to be in your business. And you're like, Ah, I'm coming after you now for you 122 00:14:47,710 --> 00:14:57,280 gave me exactly what I said. New York State's law says you can't do that. So in terms of usury, it was now double confirmed between the 123 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:04,690 plain text of the law and the appellate court in new state said if you're a corporation you cannot sue someone for usury so if you're on 124 00:15:04,690 --> 00:15:08,470 the MCA your business lending world this is this is an important ruling. 125 00:15:09,500 --> 00:15:15,830 Johny Fernandez: Interesting stuff. It's interesting because there's like I think as I continue to work with you guys I think other people 126 00:15:15,830 --> 00:15:21,830 that watch this that are new to the business, it's interesting to learn these things because this isn't something that you just find out you 127 00:15:21,830 --> 00:15:28,520 know automatically as especially if you're new to to like though MCA world you know, alternative finance and it's interesting because i think 128 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:36,140 the main thing people want to know now is number one how to make money and how to make money quick and this will if you learn about this you 129 00:15:36,140 --> 00:15:41,030 know you will avoid spending a lot of money on things that are unnecessary. 130 00:15:41,090 --> 00:15:50,270 Sean Murray: Yeah, I've seen too many situations in where someone was running a relatively small business and got caught up in a complex 131 00:15:50,300 --> 00:15:58,160 litigation over issues they didn't they weren't aware were issues and everything that I just told you by the way I am not a lawyer, I'm not an 132 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:08,480 attorney that was not legal advice that was me telling you to go out and seek legal advice this is the broad strokes of what was said you should 133 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:13,250 have an attorney if you're in this business that can guide you through all these things and hopefully hopefully you're already aware of them 134 00:16:13,250 --> 00:16:18,770 but if you weren't, you know, this is this is me informing you now to go and do an informative session. 135 00:16:19,970 --> 00:16:20,090 Unknown: [cross-talk] 136 00:16:22,790 --> 00:16:31,040 Johny Fernandez: Alright Sean, and also big news for a specific facebook group we know that MCA facebook group reached a certain number that's a 137 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:31,760 milestone. 138 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:41,100 Sean Murray: that's right it did so we here at deBanked we have a facebook group and we've actually had it for a while. I think we've had 139 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:52,410 to be honest with you for about 10 years, and but we just reached a milestone we hit 1000 members in the facebook group and you know what's 140 00:16:52,410 --> 00:17:01,590 interesting about it is we weren't putting a whole lot of attention on the facebook group itself but a trend emerged in 2020 and that is that 141 00:17:01,830 --> 00:17:12,360 people could not meet in person and you had a lot of people looking for a way to make an income from home, right? Whether as a side hustle or as 142 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:22,080 a full time thing because they lost their jobs and I've noticed that a lot of people are going in there they're joining collaborative groups where 143 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:30,000 they're working with other people in the business and learning ways to make money getting tips and help and and all that stuff and some 144 00:17:30,030 --> 00:17:38,100 of these groups cost money and I think that's all fine and good but some of them exist on facebook I've noticed and these facebook groups have done 145 00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:44,340 have done pretty well I've been looking at some of the membership numbers and the numbers have gone up and it looks like there's a lot 146 00:17:44,340 --> 00:17:52,680 of collaboration on there and we have also been the beneficiary of people joining the merchant cash advance facebook group which we've run 147 00:17:52,680 --> 00:18:00,870 I just said for more than 10 years and so yeah that's a milestone and you're like wait what, you know, what merchant cash advance facebook 148 00:18:00,990 --> 00:18:09,900 group if you type in merchant cash advance into facebook and it should come up under groups that's our group is not called the deBanked group 149 00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:18,540 but it is a deBanked community. We do post in there occasionally you can reach us through there we do have a deBanked facebook page too. 150 00:18:18,540 --> 00:18:28,210 We also have other social media platforms. If you want to follow us you can go and follow us on instagram, facebook, twitter, and linkedin. 151 00:18:28,210 --> 00:18:36,850 Different ways to reach us different avenues to reach us and if not the most simple way to reach us you can go to deBanked.com and his contact 152 00:18:36,850 --> 00:18:37,720 us through there. 153 00:18:38,140 --> 00:18:47,680 That's true yeah so and you know one thing about facebook and we talked about this before we are going to continue to kind of monitor that group 154 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:55,510 and grow that group but the risk with facebook and any any social media platform you and I have talked about yeah that facebook ultimately 155 00:18:55,510 --> 00:19:05,710 retains the control. They are the masters of that domain and we're not putting all of our effort into building that community because we 156 00:19:05,710 --> 00:19:13,150 already have a community that that we run on our own servers and all that stuff right where we don't have to worry about what some third 157 00:19:13,150 --> 00:19:22,420 party is going to do or think and so we do have our own platform for brokers and people in the business finance to communicate and that's 158 00:19:22,750 --> 00:19:31,300 dailyfunder.com there's a ton of people on dailyfunder.com. Every day, every day. People are on dailyfunder.com every day it is actually it's 159 00:19:31,300 --> 00:19:36,670 bigger than any of the facebook groups out there. It's bigger than our facebook group it's bigger than all the all these other facebook groups 160 00:19:36,670 --> 00:19:44,800 that i've seen online and it is completely free. You don't need to pay a fee you know there's no like you know leader of the pack who's going to 161 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:52,660 wake up every day wake up every day and motivate you on there but it is pretty collaborative yeah and we do get 1000s of people visiting that 162 00:19:52,660 --> 00:20:02,080 site every single day like I mean this is a pretty this is an active community, right? It takes it takes up a team A lot of my time, you 163 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:10,480 know, moderating and keeping an eye on it. I do answer questions. Now, I haven't myself posted that much on there. I used to post all the time. 164 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:17,830 But I spent more of my time on the site. You know, as I've told you kind of like managing some of the back end, 165 00:20:18,610 --> 00:20:27,310 Johny Fernandez: And the topics range from anything, anything, anything, and they're from everywhere. I think it's also interesting, because, you 166 00:20:27,310 --> 00:20:36,640 know, you have, depending on the day, different tips of like, you know, what makes a good broker to the latest gossip of the industry, or, you 167 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:43,960 know, people need a loan, or people need help, like, it's all there. So it's such a great resource and platform, because it's free. You don't. 168 00:20:44,020 --> 00:20:52,090 And nowadays, everything costs money. And when people are trying to save money. So I think it's definitely a great resource to have for sure. 169 00:20:52,090 --> 00:20:59,920 Sean Murray: Yeah. And we don't intend to close off the community anytime soon. Some people wonder how we make money off of it. We sell 170 00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:09,310 ads, you don't I mean, Senator, we sell ads, right? You know, Zuckerberg whole thing. But but that's, that's the business model, if anyone is 171 00:21:09,310 --> 00:21:15,910 wondering, and nobody gets any special treatment on the site, I know, that comes up, there's era, you know, there's always theories about 172 00:21:15,910 --> 00:21:25,930 what's happening behind the scenes. It's, you know, matters by us. And we do the best that we can to kind of, you know, foster collaboration in 173 00:21:25,930 --> 00:21:34,840 that community. And this statistic came up during our live stream last week, and I'm just gonna reiterate it again. And that is, because I've 174 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:41,260 been monitoring what's been happening on these Facebook groups, and all that stuff, the growth of them, etc, is that on Daily Funder in 175 00:21:41,260 --> 00:21:52,990 particular, we run an email campaign on March of 2020. And we didn't send out any other emails to the Daily Funder, user list, again until 176 00:21:52,990 --> 00:22:04,330 March of 2021. So we actually we didn't add any of the users that are joined to the email list. So that the second email went to the same 177 00:22:04,330 --> 00:22:11,260 people that it went to March of 2020. And I was curious to find out how many of those people no longer exists that was trying to speculate, 178 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:20,680 Sean, deBanked, Daily Funder, you must have some data on how many people are gone. And we found that seven and a half percent, daily ponders, 179 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:28,540 users no longer existed to the point where I'm talking about their emails no longer existed yet. So these are people who either lost their 180 00:22:28,540 --> 00:22:36,970 jobs, or they went out of business, and their domains lapsed. And I'm sure there's more out there who are no longer in business or who have 181 00:22:36,970 --> 00:22:44,890 left their job, but their emails haven't been disabled. And that number was seven and a half percent? Well, that's a troubling figure, right. 182 00:22:45,790 --> 00:22:58,330 But on the flip side, we added more than we lost. So from that whole year, we lost seven and a half percent, we added more to our list is 183 00:22:58,330 --> 00:23:01,720 actually bigger now. Isn't that incredible? 184 00:23:01,990 --> 00:23:09,700 Johny Fernandez: It just shows it just shows how many people are trying to, number one be their own boss. And secondly, the people are logging 185 00:23:09,700 --> 00:23:15,790 into these websites, they want to know they want to know the latest, they want to know how to like, pretty much get rich, they want to know 186 00:23:15,790 --> 00:23:22,930 how to make money. They also want to know if they need help they have a group of people that they can go to, to help them. 187 00:23:22,990 --> 00:23:28,510 Sean Murray: Yeah. And so if you're, you know, one of the things about these type of groups is always wondering who who's behind them, right? 188 00:23:28,510 --> 00:23:37,750 And what they do they have any motive and all that stuff. And you know, hey, it's us, right? We know, we're, you know, we're behind the Daily 189 00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:45,040 Funder. And so, you know, we're an open book, we're real people, you can come and see us, we do know that business, we make money purely off of 190 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:52,390 advertising. We don't own funding companies. So we're not competing with anyone on there. We're all about fostering collaboration, if you prefer 191 00:23:52,390 --> 00:23:57,520 to use Facebook, and that's how you want to communicate with people. That's cool. You know, I mean, we have a Facebook group, too. There's 192 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:05,230 other Facebook groups, you know, it doesn't have to be ours. I think it's good if people are collaborating, but if you want to do it offline, 193 00:24:05,260 --> 00:24:12,550 Daily Funder has got to be the biggest B2B finance community in the whole in the whole industry and 1000s of people we see in our in our 194 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:18,700 analytics 1000s of people that visit it every single day. So if you're just looking at how many people post and thinking that's, that's the 195 00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:23,620 number. You are way off way, way, way more people lurk than most on there. 196 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:28,090 Johny Fernandez: It's so awesome to see. But that's it for today. 197 00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:33,910 Sean Murray: That is it for today. Thank you very much for joining and guess we'll see everyone again soon. 198 00:24:34,270 --> 00:24:43,360 Johny Fernandez: And really quick. If you want to contact us just log on to deBanked.com And you can click enter and then see you guys there. 199 00:24:45,970 --> 00:24:46,510 [cross-talk]