00:25.590 --> 00:33.060 I'm Johny Fernandez, and welcome to deBankNews Live. So we're gonna just go ahead and walk straight into it. Sean, let's go ahead and start talking 00:33.060 --> 00:43.500 about the big headline today. Specifically today Tesla announced that it actually bought $1.5 billion in Bitcoin, it plans to take it as payment. So 00:43.620 --> 00:51.300 obviously Bitcoin has been the big story for the last couple of months, actually. So when you heard this, let's walk me through what went through 00:51.300 --> 00:59.880 your mind. I mean, this is a big company taking this Bitcoin and cryptocurrency into like a whole new level. And it's taking it as payment. 00:59.880 --> 01:01.770 So what goes through your mind? 01:02.170 --> 01:10.270 Sean Murray: Okay, well, you know, it's interesting, we talked probably over the last few months about Bitcoin. And I had, I think I even told you 01:10.270 --> 01:14.170 that we were at at like, a market top. At like, 20,000, right?! 01:14.170 --> 01:21.470 Johny Fernandez: And I asked you if, what is the right time to pull out? Or also, when is the right time to go out and start investing in Bitcoin. 01:21.470 --> 01:30.270 Sean Murray: Right. And, you know, and I also mentioned that I don't look at Bitcoin as an investment. Right. And some of the warning signs and 01:30.270 --> 01:37.770 things to be cautious of that existed a few months ago, back when Bitcoin was only 20,000. They still exist in the market. So that hasn't changed. 01:37.770 --> 01:46.920 The risk actually hasn't changed, even though it's now up to 43, some odd 1000 as of this morning. And so the the news came out, you just mentioned 01:46.920 --> 01:56.130 about Elon Musk, it was it was Tesla, that actually bought it back in January. So they're not buying it today. There the market is reacting to 01:56.130 --> 02:05.520 what Tesla did back in January. So the increase in price is not due to the purchase of Bitcoin happening right now. Because right, if you do a huge 02:05.520 --> 02:16.530 purchase, it sends the price up, right? It's the market reacting to Tesla's confidence, and Elon Musk has confidence in Bitcoin. And it's interesting 02:16.530 --> 02:25.950 that he is so confident, and he's not alone. You also have Jack Dorsey from Square, who is also very confidence and invested heavily in Bitcoin. And 02:26.340 --> 02:34.590 they have to be aware of what the risks are and the risk is that the primary liquidity in the crypto market, and I won't name exactly what it 02:34.590 --> 02:45.810 is. But there's allegations that the whole thing is basically some kind of scheme, right? That it's not really backed by real dollars. And it's so 02:45.840 --> 02:55.620 heavily used on all the cryptocurrency exchanges that it's really it's kind of the glue that holds the crypto market together. And so that's like one 02:55.620 --> 03:04.290 of the things that people have to think about when they see Bitcoin going up is like whatever happened if at some point, the liquidity the underlying 03:04.740 --> 03:13.020 glue of the market falls apart, then is the price of crypto going to remain where it is. And if the popularity is going to remain where it is, you 03:13.020 --> 03:21.120 know, my thought on it is that it's not that the popularity and the price is going to probably plummet. And again, I'm not looking at it from an 03:21.120 --> 03:31.170 investment standpoint, but I can't see how the thing that holds it together if that collapses, that everything else just remains the same. But that 03:31.170 --> 03:39.570 brings me to the whole point of well, Elon Musk, Jack Dorsey, they've invested heavily right. What do they know that? I don't know. I don't think 03:39.570 --> 03:48.510 they know, more than I don't know, I think everyone kind of knows the same thing. And I think the reason that Bitcoin can still go up, despite knowing 03:48.510 --> 03:56.640 the risk is that one of the funny things about life is that you can be right about something, but other people can just decide that you're wrong. 03:57.200 --> 04:04.430 Johny Fernandez: So let me ask you this because they've credited Elan Musk for rising the price of cryptocurrencies, including Bitcoin through his 04:04.430 --> 04:11.600 messages on something as simple as Twitter, like he, you know, he's really been pushing on it. So it goes back to what you were saying that, you know, 04:11.600 --> 04:19.880 he, at the end of the day, I mean, even though, you know, there's the tethering situation, there's allegations of that, but, you know, he's still 04:19.940 --> 04:27.230 putting his value into it. And pretty much he's saying that, despite, you know, what people were saying, through his messages, and through his 04:27.230 --> 04:30.530 actions with Tesla, that he believed in it. 04:30.870 --> 04:36.120 Sean Murray: yeah. And, I mean, he believes in it, but you know, people believe in the housing market, even when they shouldn't have believed in 04:36.120 --> 04:44.220 it, right? If you watch the movie, The Big Short, you have this small hedge fund that decided that housing was way overvalued. People weren't paying 04:44.610 --> 04:52.710 the underlying mortgages that were being packaged up into the bonds, and they took a big short position on housing. They were right. But the market 04:52.710 --> 05:01.590 just decided they were wrong, even though they were technically right. And this has happened several times in the history Wall Street you have a good 05:01.590 --> 05:10.680 example is Herbalife we have Bill Ackman, a billionaire who thought that Herbalife was essentially a giant Ponzi scheme fraud and he took a short 05:10.680 --> 05:18.390 position on Herbalife and he thought it was gonna go down to zero the feds gonna shut it down and what happened what the other people just took a 05:18.390 --> 05:28.680 different opinion and decided that Herbalife might have some problems but that ultimately it was going to be successful company and Bill Ackman was 05:28.680 --> 05:35.400 right to an extent Herbalife did have to get I think they got to fine, they had to make some changes, but they didn't go to zero and they didn't go out 05:35.400 --> 05:44.160 of business right, they survived. And Bill Ackman ended up taking a little one on the chin a little bit from that whole experience. So it could be 05:44.160 --> 05:56.460 similar right to what you're what we're talking about Bitcoin is that Musk, Dorsey, they I think they know what the risk is. And I think they probably 05:56.460 --> 06:07.800 view whatever ensuing damage is going to be limited. And that ultimately long term that Bitcoin provides value. I mean, I've always thought Bitcoin 06:07.800 --> 06:14.250 provided value to not from a not from an investment standpoint, but just from a utility standpoint. And perhaps that ultimately, that's the way 06:14.250 --> 06:16.230 they're looking at it as well, that's what I would have to say. 06:16.300 --> 06:21.760 Johny Fernandez: So and the big thing is that they're accepting it as payment. So obviously, they're not only putting money into it, they're 06:21.790 --> 06:29.110 allowing other people to use the money to, you know, pretty much buy their inventory. So what would you say regarding that? Like, is that a move we 06:29.110 --> 06:37.000 can see other companies also kind of going towards that that believe in Bitcoin? Or is that something that would typically just stay within the 06:37.000 --> 06:42.610 people? Like we were talking about, like Elon Musk is that you know, believe in it, and they want to use it? 06:42.760 --> 06:49.270 Sean Murray: I think it's a gimmick, to be honest with you. Okay. I think the Bitcoin community is not about using it. The Bitcoin community 06:49.270 --> 06:58.000 currently is not about using the money to spend it. They're about holding it to become rich, the whole in a huddle, you know, forever. 06:58.920 --> 07:07.080 Johny Fernandez: So, so when would one I guess what advice do you have for people that are kind of in the holding pattern that they want? Like, when 07:07.080 --> 07:12.600 is it time to pull out? When is it time to, you know, figure out like, what to do with it? 07:12.960 --> 07:19.530 Sean Murray: Yeah, well, I mean, I, and I don't want to speculate on that, because I don't look at it from an investment standpoint. But in terms of 07:19.620 --> 07:27.330 Tesla accepting Bitcoin as payment, I think it's a gimmick, I don't think I don't wanna say nobody. But I think that the Bitcoin mindset at current is 07:27.330 --> 07:36.240 to hold and to think that they're going to use that money to buy Tesla's I don't think is going to happen. At least not in the short term. I think that 07:36.270 --> 07:45.840 Tesla needs to accept it, or say they accept it to be consistent with why they're making an investment in Bitcoin itself, right? I think if you're 07:45.840 --> 07:53.550 gonna make a $1.5 billion investment in Bitcoin, but you don't accept it as payment, that would be pretty hypocritical. So I think it's something they 07:53.550 --> 08:00.630 had to do for PR reasons, but I don't really think it's that revolutionary that they would accept it as payment. other vendors around the world. 08:01.380 --> 08:07.860 Overstock, for example, has accepted a lot they still accept it, but they did accept Bitcoin. You know, as long as 5, 6, 7 years ago, they were 08:07.860 --> 08:17.250 accepting Bitcoin for computer technology. I even bought a monitor here in the office in this, you know, right outside the studio, in Bitcoin on 08:17.250 --> 08:22.560 overstock years ago. So I don't think it's revolutionary that they would accept Bitcoin. I think that part is pretty normal. I just think that 08:22.560 --> 08:24.570 people's behavior is not totally spend Bitcoin. 08:25.530 --> 08:32.460 Johny Fernandez: Cool. Awesome. So let's move on to the next topic. We did find out that Enova is pleased with the OnDeck acquisition, that's 08:32.460 --> 08:41.880 something that we have been talking about. And now it's looking to divest ODX, OnDeck Canada, and OnDeck Australia. So these are big moves, obviously 08:41.910 --> 08:50.460 with Enova making. So making this move. So go ahead and walk us through like, number one, like the why it's doing this, why it's doing something, 08:50.460 --> 08:55.530 you know, obviously, it looks like they're going to go ahead and kind of split things. 08:56.440 --> 09:04.450 Sean Murray: Sure, yeah. And I haven't talked to Enova or OnDeck about this. I learned the way that many other people learn, I learned through 09:04.450 --> 09:15.430 their earnings call, which was last week. And they kind of just mentioned it, they probably said two sentences about each. They said they wanted to 09:15.430 --> 09:25.180 divest ODX that that OnDeck had some pretty important bank clients that they signed up. But that ultimately it wasn't really a moneymaker, it 09:25.180 --> 09:34.630 seemed more like a vanity play and a PR stunt than it was a real business. And then they also mentioned that they wanted to, quote unquote, monetize 09:34.960 --> 09:43.630 OnDeck Canada and onDeck, Australia. And they did it in the same breath as talking about divesting ODX. So I took that to mean that they also want to 09:43.630 --> 09:55.240 sell OnDeck Canada and Australia. And but what they explained, it's not that those branches didn't make money or weren't viable. I think they 09:55.240 --> 10:04.240 actually said that they were viable in their respective markets, but that they were too small. And Enova, such a big company that I think that it 10:04.240 --> 10:13.120 would be a distraction to manage a market that is too small for them. I was kind of surprised to hear that Canada would be considered a distraction or 10:13.120 --> 10:22.000 too small for them. Australia, I totally understood. And that's because Australia is so far away. It's a very small market, Australia. Tiny. And 10:22.330 --> 10:33.190 it's so far away. And it takes a lot of time and effort to really manage that market. But if you're going to manage it remotely from the US, or at 10:33.190 --> 10:42.670 least oversee it, you're going to have to spend time in Australia, it's like a whole day flight, you lose a day just by going two days, it costs a 10:42.670 --> 10:50.170 whole lot of money to go there. I'm sure Enova could afford it. But the market is so small to spend all this time and all this energy and resources 10:50.170 --> 10:58.660 on that market, I can understand why they would want to split that off. Canada was I was kind of surprised about but this is all part of the the 10:58.660 --> 11:08.890 post acquisition kind of phase of a deal. And so it really doesn't really send any signal about you know, what they think about OnDeck, I think 11:08.920 --> 11:15.820 ultimately this was going to be their plan anyway, they acquired OnDeck, they're looking to shed the parts that don't really fit into their model. 11:16.570 --> 11:26.620 I've seen numerous former employees of OnDeck announced their their departures from OnDeck on on LinkedIn. And, you know, the fact that they're 11:26.620 --> 11:30.880 going to divest what doesn't make sense, is just, you know, a normal part of the business. 11:31.630 --> 11:38.740 Johny Fernandez: Awesome. So like in for futures, you know, when do you think this kind of will fully take place? Like how long do you think the 11:38.740 --> 11:42.490 process is gonna be for them to actually fulfill this? 11:43.360 --> 11:50.050 Sean Murray: Um, you know, that's a great question. If I was an investment banker, I'd probably have a better answer for you on that, you know, I'm 11:50.050 --> 11:59.110 not privy to any of the conversations. And then revealing that in their earnings call may suggest that they've been talking about it for quite a 11:59.110 --> 12:08.140 while. And you know, nobody had been pursuing it that it wasn't like they just started. These things could take a while to do. I think that there's 12:08.140 --> 12:16.630 going to be a lot of interested buyers, at least for OnDeck. Canada, I don't know about ODX and I don't really know about Australia, but I know 12:16.630 --> 12:27.670 that there was a pretty strong interest in acquiring OnDeck Canada's operations just from feedback I've gotten on our announcement of our story 12:27.670 --> 12:36.940 about OnDeck or that move. So possibly by the end of the year, but it's really hard to say. 12:38.140 --> 12:48.040 Johny Fernandez: Awesome, and the next thing Super Bowl, obviously, I know, you know, unfortunately, Tom took it home again. Something we talked about 12:48.310 --> 12:48.760 Friday. 12:48.760 --> 12:52.360 Sean Murray: Tom Brady, the robot. He has to be robot. 12:53.260 --> 12:59.260 Johny Fernandez: And he pretty much gave like a little announcement yesterday that he's not stopping like you know, he's I 13:00.940 --> 13:00.970 Speakers: [cross-talk] 13:02.140 --> 13:05.740 Johny Fernandez: Well, you know, probably next year take number 11 home or... 13:07.420 --> 13:08.230 Sean Murray: That's absurd. 13:09.620 --> 13:18.050 Johny Fernandez: He played well, though. He definitely played well. But it was also a big, big, big night for Rocket Mortgage. Rocket Mortgage was 13:18.080 --> 13:25.190 everywhere yesterday. I mean, you can literally like little like sponsorships. It was great. And it was also interesting to see that they 13:25.190 --> 13:35.630 actually won USA Today's ad meter. And they kind of made history for the first time in 10, almost a decade and the company won two 60 seconds 13:35.630 --> 13:43.670 Superbowl ad placement they placed first and second in the ad meter. And the big thing Tracy Morgan was pretty much in both commercials and the 13:43.670 --> 13:52.580 commercials pretty much the illustrated the distinction between pretty sure and certain. So pretty much a commercial one of the commercials, a couple 13:52.580 --> 13:58.610 they were trying to like, Look, they were looking through the Rocket Mortgage app. And then they're like oh, we're pretty sure about going with 13:58.610 --> 14:05.960 this. And then Tracy came out and said, All right, like here's what pretty sure it looks like. And he gave them different scenarios of what pretty 14:05.960 --> 14:13.250 sure would look like. And so pretty much walk them through like pretty ridiculous, like scenarios, and it was hilarious. And so yeah, they ended 14:13.250 --> 14:21.890 up winning. For the first time a company won first and second place in the ad meter in USA Today's ad meter commercial for the Super Bowl. So 14:21.890 --> 14:32.040 Sean Murray: So I guess that means that Rocket Mortgage, won the brokers are better than the competition. Competition they had. Yeah, it sounds like 14:32.040 --> 14:33.780 they, they kind of stole the show. 14:33.810 --> 14:40.680 Johny Fernandez: They did. He definitely did steal the show. And the last time something like this happened was actually in 2007. Budweiser did 14:40.680 --> 14:47.850 something similar, but I mean, it's been a while and yeah, they took it home. They definitely It was exciting to see kind of how they promoted 14:47.850 --> 14:51.510 everything. And they were just like, pretty much everywhere last night. 14:51.510 --> 15:02.520 Sean Murray: Yeah, it's, it's interesting to see that. FinTech is kind of front and center. Right? Yeah. Even in the Super Bowl. 15:02.600 --> 15:11.990 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. And like they were, and just the amount of like promotion and advertising that they did last night. It was everywhere, like 15:11.990 --> 15:19.250 every time, like a commercial pop up, you know, it remind you like, oh, like if I need like, you know to use Rocket Mortgage like Oh, let me 15:19.250 --> 15:26.900 download the app and they pretty much sneaked into it everywhere they could. It was funny cuz when the announcers and the commentaries and the 15:26.900 --> 15:33.350 correspondents were on the field, like, you can see like little icon like just reminding us like, hey, like we're here. Don't forget us, so... 15:34.320 --> 15:44.250 Sean Murray: It's incredible. Yeah. And one thing I don't think a lot of people know is that the parent company of Rocket Mortgage, Quicken. Yeah, 15:44.310 --> 15:54.540 they also own a Rapid Finance, a small business lender, based in Bethesda, Maryland. And it's all connected. Right? So it's not, you know, people 15:54.540 --> 16:03.300 might see Rocket Mortgage and use them for their mortgage. But that also brings them into the Quicken family, and it gives them exposure. I would 16:03.300 --> 16:10.470 think Yeah, to business lending options if you're a business owner. So that's kind of kind of a big, big news. 16:10.470 --> 16:12.240 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, it is. Exciting news. So. 16:12.240 --> 16:20.010 Sean Murray: All right, so. Okay, well, thank you everybody, for joining us today. I'm Sean Murray with dBanked 16:20.010 --> 16:22.860 Johny Fernandez: and Johnny Fernandez with deBanked and we'll see you next time.