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Tal Schwartz: Good morning,
everyone, and welcome to

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Canadian lenders Association
events on how to build a

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resilience collection strategy.
Before we get started, we want

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to thank our sponsor LEC stop
for supporting events and

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supporting FinTech lenders in
Canada, and fintech lending

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innovation in Canada. A few
quick notes before we get

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started, if you don't already
know, the Canadian lenders

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association is the largest trade
group for commercial and

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consumer lending in the country,
we have almost 100 members from

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coast to coast. We run events
like this fairly often about

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once a month. So if you're
interested in joining us for

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another webinar, or sponsoring
or participating, please go to

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lenders events.com. And at the
end of the session, we'll be

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sending out a recording. So if
you missed parts, don't worry.

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And with that, I'm going to hand
things over to your moderator,

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James. To get you started.

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James Rose: Very good, thanks
Tal. And thanks also to the

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Canadian Lenders Association for
every challenge and opportunity

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to moderate them. Looking
forward to today's discussion.

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We have a excellent panel of
everybody from Montreal,

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Toronto, Mississauga out to
Vancouver, and here in gloomy

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Saskatchewan right now. So
welcome. I just want to first

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take a few moments, just
introduce our panelists, and

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we'll get right into it. There
is an opportunity for feedback

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ready. Everybody can just put
their goggles with the speakers

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to just on mute, and then we'll
that way we don't get the

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feedback and our ears will all
be fine. So yeah, I just wanted

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to introduce some of our
panelists, and just wanted to

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give them thanks. And we'll
start with a mirror test Karimi

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from Lexol responses for today.
Amir is the CEO and co founder

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of Lexol, which is a fast
growing fintech startup that's

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leading a change within
collections industry and

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impacting 1000s daily. Prior to
that Emir practice banking and

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IT law for many firms such as
IMK, BCF, and hidden Blakely,

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and then with the National Bank
of Canada. And he's published

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author and has contributed to
the doing business report

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presented by the World Bank
Group, and Amir joins us, I

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assume from Montreal. Then next
we'll next panelist we have

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Brian Simone, I think I got that
right, just in terms of

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translation. And Brian is the
President candidacy Financial

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Group, which is a leading full
service partner and provider of

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purchasing and serving solutions
for institutions. Managing

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receivables in Canada, Canada
seed works directly with

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institutions to provide
efficient access to capital and

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proving operational expense
structure and utilizing

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technology enabled operations,
providing businesses with

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flexibility across the credit
spectrum to acquire all segments

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in the consumer receivables
market. And then, next, bright

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and early out in Vancouver is
Nathan Slee, and he is the CEO

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of progressive which is one of
Canada's fastest growing

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financial technology lenders
focus on changing the way

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paycheck to paycheck, Canadians
access and build credit.

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Progressive prides itself in
being a socially responsible

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consumer finance company, whilst
empowering collection agencies

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and enterprises to offer
proactive solutions and drive

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healthy recoveries while
protecting brand reputation with

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industry leading, and SPS and
servicing. And progressive was

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also one of the sponsors of 2019
Canadian lenders Summit. And

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then last but not least, we have
Clint no Santa, and we want to

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give a big shout out to Clinton.
Just actually found out this

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morning. One of our other
panelists, unfortunately,

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couldn't make it. Robert and
Zini and I did have a write up

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for him, so won't have as much
to say. But I do want to thank

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you for joining us. He is VP
operations over at LM credit,

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which is the sister company of
LM financial and it's a loan

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company specializing in that
elevating credit and he's

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joining us from Mississauga. So
just prior to the introductions,

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I did want to mention, we are
encouraging and open dialogue

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and questions. Um, you'll see
just in the bottom of your

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screen, there's two little
bubbles just q&a, we were going

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to offer an opportunity for
questions at the end. But just

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in terms of the format, I think
could actually be a lot better

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if there's any particular item
that some of our panelists are

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talking to, or any burning
questions, we'll just answer

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them live, enter them in, I'll
read them out, and then just

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leave it to the panel to
discuss. So, yeah, the topic of

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today's conversation is how to
build a resilient collection

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strategy. And that's in the
backdrop of COVID, the winner of

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the deepest recessions since the
1920s. And so many fintechs have

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raised massive amounts of
capital, within that last

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quarter to potentially fill this
need, there's been obviously a

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lot of nervousness, there's been
a lot of surprises, and I just

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wrote this, you know, we want to
talk about just some of the

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experiences that we've had,
learning by doing, and learning

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in the current environment and,
you know, crops up predictions

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off, you know, for the future in
order to ensure that we can

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actually have, you know, a
resilient collection strategy.

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So just kind of want to then
open up to the panel, just

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talking about some preps,
insights, and how we can

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actually see that you know, what
we need to do to send the

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current environment, and how to,
well just build a resilient

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collection strategy.

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For example, just dealing with
multi channel that capability,

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you know, what is sort of
changed in the current

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environment, or that we need to
kind of focus in, you know, just

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in terms of building and
maintaining an efficient

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collectors collection strategy
on that front. And maybe I'll

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just open up to Brian, maybe to
start off with that.

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Bryan Szemenyei: Thanks, James,
first of all, thank you for

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moderating. And thanks for
everybody for for joining today,

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I'll start with a little bit of
level setting, which is, you

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know, emphasizing something that
everybody already knows. But it

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which is that we're sort of in
an environment that is

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completely unprecedented, not
just in Canada, but sort of

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around the globe as far as what
the economic conditions are. And

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if you took us back to the
middle of March, you know, in a

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time period, where it just
looked like the world was, was

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on fire, sort of and getting
worse during that period, there

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was a lot of fear that was going
on as to what it was the the

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coming year was going to look
like and I'm sure everybody went

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through their own heart
palpitations at that point in

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time. But within our business,
we were kind of looking into the

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future and saying, We had to
completely throw at the book as

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to what it was that we think we
thought we could forecast at

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that stage. We just didn't know
what was gonna happen. And as a

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result, we were taking some
pretty, pretty draconian views

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as to what the recovery
landscape was going to look like

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in Canada were everything, as
far as you know, runs on the

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bank were being contemplated at
that point in time. So, you

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know, fast forward over the next
six months, and it represented

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sort of a sort of completely
counterintuitive result from

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what you would have expected,
you know, you have massive

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unemployment spikes you have,
you know, GDP drops like crazy,

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but at the same time delinquency
rates have been down loss rates

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have been down, I'm sure
everybody's seeing it in their

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own portfolios. And in the
recovery, world, recovery rates

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have been up dramatically. So it
turns out that injecting in, you

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know, a third of a trillion
dollars into the economy does

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something and it did, you know,
quite a bit during that period

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of time. So it's been a lot of
sort of learning as you're doing

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even within that recovery space.
But if I was to sort of step

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back and say, Well, what where
do we stand today, the general

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consensus is that there is a
coming wave that everybody's

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gonna experience be it losses,
delinquencies, but also impacts

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on recovery rates within the the
Receivables Management space.

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And when that comes is a little
bit speculative. I mean, there's

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different different views. I
think other members of panel I

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interest be interested in their
thoughts as well. But the

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general view is that at the end
of this year, kind of beginning

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of next year, there will be that
wave of of delinquencies and

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defaults that are sort of coming
into the space. So I would sort

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of say to your question, James,
what do you need to do to try

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and prepare for that? Well,
there's a kind of a set of

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things that I think all lenders
whether they're small or large,

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or specialty, or monoline
lenders or sort of multiproduct

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lenders should be doing in order
to try and prepare for that wave

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of activities. And we'll try and
touch on some of those today.

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The first one is you kind of
mentioned there's just on his

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channel management. I think Amir
can probably talk about this one

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pretty expertly as well and that
you need to kind of evaluate

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what it is how you're
relationship with your customer

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has changed and what's changed
in their life because for the

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longest time, you've been
dealing with people and very low

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touch, low friction. Somewhat
passive means you don't want to

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be constantly speaking with
somebody every day or every week

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or every, every month even, you
just want to make sure that

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you've got, you know, a
frictionless payment structure

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in place, that relationship is
different. Now, this person is

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no longer somebody who you are
trying to build a relationship

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with that will, you know, that
you will be able to extend

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additional credit for, you're
now trying to build a

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relationship with this person
where you get top of pile as far

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as new payments are concerned.
So as they've got sort of a

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fixed amount of cash capital
that they can utilize to satisfy

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their obligations, your goal
should be to be the first person

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on the list. And that means
having kind of multiple

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strategies and multiple channels
that you can deal with that

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person on in order to try and
communicate what it is that that

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their options are for for
repayment. And it's a it's a

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firm message, but it is
definitely a fair message as

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well. So I'd be interested in
some other it's sort of a long

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winded answer, but interested in
some other perspectives as well.

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Amir Tajkariml: Yeah, well, is
that okay with making James,

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I'll go add a few points there.
I agree. I mean, federal aid was

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great collection went higher.
But one thing is for sure,

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there's going to be a massive
backlog of receivables that are

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going to be out there very soon,
post towards by the end of

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winter, and to be able to
collect on those traditional

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channels won't work anymore. I
mean, we recently conducted a

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survey right at the beginning of
COVID, Alexa work with over 3000

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Canadians just to understand
what they're expecting, what

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they're getting, what they want,
what they want, versus what

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they're getting. And the results
were fascinating because people

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don't like to answer phone calls
anymore. We don't answer phone

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calls anymore. We don't pay
attention to letter mail that

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sent that home, we just keep it
and forget it. So now it's just

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one of the most important
factors of collection is getting

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the person's attention, right?
It's the rule number one, get

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the person's attention. If that
doesn't work, you'll never

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collect. And that's going
through digital channels,

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whether it's email, whether it's
SMS, the channel that converts

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the better. And then the second
thing about channel is it's

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about templating, what's the
message you're sending, if

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you're sending the same message
to everyone from 30 days to 90

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days, we have a huge problem
there. Because they don't engage

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with that template with that
wording, as well as other

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people. So these are in terms of
channels, digital contact

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methods is absolutely important.
It's number one factor that came

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out. And then the second one is
once you've caught their

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attention, what's next you have
to convert them right. And

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especially during a season
period, wherever it's going to

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be have a lot of past due
accounts past the receivables

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out there, you want to be able
to offer them a flexible payment

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options. That's the number one
number two reason they came out.

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And it's extremely important in
weather. So rule number one, you

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put in some digital channels.
And then number two, you convert

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them with flexibility. That is
what we are focused on it with

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Alexa is to offer technology
that can automate that because

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at the end of the day, one other
important thing is that you may

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have enough manpower to handle
your current collection, the

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early delinquencies or, or or a
portion of those recipients do

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receivables. But you won't be
able to do the to handle all the

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backlog. So automation will be
key to helping or establishing a

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resilient collection strategy.
I'll stop there no looking get

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back to other. Yeah.

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Nathan Slee: Great and great
comments, guys. And I'll kind of

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echo you know, I'll echo a lot
of that. I mean, certainly

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echoing Brian's sentiment, I
think everyone felt this with

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bigger description, Brian of
COVID, kind of, you know, start

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to now is, you know, I think a
lot of boardrooms, were having a

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lot of the similar conversations
that sounds like you guys were

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having. And I think a lot of us
have been at least pleasantly

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surprised in the short term that
the results are a lot different

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than expected. Also, I agree
with both you guys that, you

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know, the wave is coming. I
think we're all preparing for

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it. And, yeah, we're no
different for sure. You know, my

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kind of high level comments, I
think the way that I look at you

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know, how to build this
resilient collection strategy is

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the things I'll mention are
things that that anyone should

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probably be doing anyway. But I
think because there's a massive

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wave, it's going to force us
right, like I can, I can

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prescribe a bunch of stuff. And
I think the things I'm going to

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mention probably apply to most
businesses, right? It's more for

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me, the strategy is more about,
you know, broader trends in a

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lot of different product lines.
And then, you know, an event

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like COVID It forces us to
sharpen our pencils and get to

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work on it. So the things that I
see in the marketplace and we'll

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see every We're so you know,
hyper personalization, right? A

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little bit to the, to the point
of channel management. But it's

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deeper than that. Right? It's,
you know, again, similar to what

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Amir was saying, get customers
in the right channels with the

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right message that's hyper
personalized to them. Right?

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We're all used to it. Now every
ad we see on the internet is

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hyper personalized to us, you
know, everything that marketers

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are sending our way is hyper
personalized. Right. And so a

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lot of that is it's about, I
think, historically, the

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collection agency or the
collections world has been a

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little bit like, you owe us
money. So we're in the driver's

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seat. Right. And I think
consumers, millennials, the

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younger generation, you know,
they expect a different

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interaction, they expect
everything hyper personalized.

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And again, I can say that any
business, not just collections.

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Amir Tajkariml: I think the
thing is the reason I'm sorry,

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this this collection, this
collection has never done it.

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Right. A lot of other segments
that have done it collection has

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never done it.

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Nathan Slee: Right. So it's a
great, it's a great opportunity,

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right? There's, there's low
hanging fruit there. I think the

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other thing that I see is, is,
you know, it's, we're in an

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instant gratification world,
right? You know, I think about

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payment experience, like when I
first got a Visa card, you know,

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I'd have to if I went to a
merchant, they'd print out a

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little slip, and I'd have to
sign it. Right. Now I get

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annoyed if they don't have tap.
Right. So again, it's similar in

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the collection space, right? If
you're trying to collect money

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from someone, you want to make
it as easy as possible, you

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know, hit them play in this
space, where they they play if

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they're used to making a payment
online with PayPal with, you

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know, the credit card with Apple
Pay, whatever it is, right?

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We're getting so impatient as
consumers. And I think if if,

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if, with our collection
strategies, we can adapt to that

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same philosophy, reduce
friction, reduce friction, I

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think the expectations are
really high. And, you know, as

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Brian says, We want to be at the
top of mind at the top of their

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kind of payment stack. Well, if
I've got three emails sitting

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there, and one is a PDF form,
that I've got to print out sign

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and fill in my credit card
number by hand, or if I've got

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one, that's Apple Pay, you know
which one I'm gonna pay first,

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right? And obviously, you know,
maybe I'm speaking to a more

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tech comfortable generation, but
there's more and more in our

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pools. I think Brian was, we
were planning to get into this

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as well, I think that the other
thing is, is trying to build a

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data driven strategy, right,
we're all sitting on hordes and

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hordes of data. And, you know,
you hear a lot of AI and machine

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learning, and all these kinds of
buzzwords. Some of it sounds

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really scary, but to be quite
honest, you know, anytime I've

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looked under the hood of someone
who's talking about an AI

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solution, it's really not
actually as complicated and make

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00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,090
it sound, you know, they want to
make it sound really sexy to

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attract investors and attention.
But really, it's actually so it

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gets my point on that is, don't
be intimidated. Right, by don't

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be intimidated by trying to dive
into your data. It's not as

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scary as it sounds. And there's
lots of people that, you know,

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that can help. But we're all
sitting on a lot of data that

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can help us kind of get back to
that hyper personalization or

296
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segmentation, right? Find ways
if you don't have internal

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00:18:03,300 --> 00:18:06,180
expertise, find some third
parties, find some outside

298
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resources, and really dive into
your data and understand how you

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can, you know, segment
personalize, you know, hit hit

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people where they are, I guess,
I think, I think all of this is

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these, you know, sort of
tidbits, I think are stuff that

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like I said, we should be
applying anyway, in any

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business. But, you know,
collections is kind of ripe for

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it. Right for for disruption,
right for kind of innovation.

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And I think I think the coming
wave is gonna force people to

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kind of innovate or fall behind.

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Bryan Szemenyei: And I'd
emphasize as well, just to kind

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00:18:37,630 --> 00:18:40,390
of echo what you're saying,
Nathan, is that this group, I

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mean, the CLA members, you know,
should be a group in our group

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that are more comfortable with
data and know more about the

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customers. And I think a big
bank or sort of a big lender or

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sort of a legacy lender would.
And although the big banks have

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a lot of information available
to them, it's they surprisingly,

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don't do a really effective job
of deploying and utilizing that

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00:19:03,910 --> 00:19:07,360
information within a recovery
strategy. They do a really good

316
00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:09,670
job of using that information
and customer acquisition

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00:19:09,670 --> 00:19:12,940
strategy and for fraud
prevention, but they don't do as

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00:19:12,940 --> 00:19:15,550
good of a job on the back end
when something is sort of rolled

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into a non customer category. So
I would say that it's not only

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as the sort of the market ripe,
but I think this group should

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00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,580
should have the tools and the
expertise to be able to sort of

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capture that it takes a little
bit of elbow grease, and it does

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require a focused effort. But it
is it should be something that

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that we're able to obtain.

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00:19:41,590 --> 00:19:44,800
James Rose: Something I think
you kind of touched on sort of

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00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,680
mirrors, specifically backdrop,
you know, when we're talking

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00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:54,010
about flexible payment options
are hyper personalization. But,

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00:19:54,310 --> 00:19:56,860
you know, just in terms of the
changing environment and talking

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00:19:56,860 --> 00:20:01,150
about automation, what kind of
strategy Jeez, what can be done

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00:20:01,150 --> 00:20:03,760
at anything when, you know, sort
of you're dealing with, you

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know, a bulk amount of, you
know, possible, you know,

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collections. And you're talking
about hyper personalization.

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But, you know, when things are
consistently changing, how can

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you consistently, you know, try
to personalize, when people's

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00:20:17,530 --> 00:20:21,010
circumstances are so precarious,
and, you know, one day they

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might be able to pay, but then
you know, that it's next month,

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00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,950
a month, things are continuously
changing for them is a way to

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00:20:29,950 --> 00:20:32,650
personalize that as their
options in order to deal with

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00:20:32,650 --> 00:20:35,380
those types of situations. You
know, presumably, it's

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00:20:35,380 --> 00:20:38,710
technology, but perhaps we can
sort of talk about that, given

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that, you know, certainly one
of, you know, provide

342
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,830
flexibility and personalization.
But on the other hand, you can't

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be so granular that you're
dealing with just one customer

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all the time. And, you know,
their particular situations.

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00:20:51,670 --> 00:20:53,320
Bryan Szemenyei: Yeah that sort
of emphasizes the

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00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:57,340
personalization is kind of a an
Nathan could probably speak more

347
00:20:57,340 --> 00:20:59,440
accurately than I but it's sort
of a form of really

348
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sophisticated segmentation,
where you try and understand

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what a customer, what kind of
general box a customer might fit

350
00:21:06,190 --> 00:21:10,000
into, and what type of person
that that customer is, what what

351
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point in their life cycle they
are, what point in their credit

352
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,250
cycle they are, what their
propensities are, to repay what

353
00:21:15,250 --> 00:21:18,880
their capabilities are to repay.
And trying to define that

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00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,850
personalization, you can
generally group people into

355
00:21:21,850 --> 00:21:25,150
certain areas to indicate to say
that this type of customer, this

356
00:21:25,150 --> 00:21:29,170
customer block fits within a
category within my overall

357
00:21:29,290 --> 00:21:32,740
portfolio, that they're just not
capable right now they don't

358
00:21:32,740 --> 00:21:35,800
have the capacity in order to
repay me at this time they're

359
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,830
unemployed, they have no assets,
you know, they're living at

360
00:21:38,830 --> 00:21:40,900
home, they have nobody they can
rely on, there's just there's

361
00:21:40,900 --> 00:21:43,390
nothing within that
personalization, that this

362
00:21:43,390 --> 00:21:47,620
person is going to be time well
spent on your side to put

363
00:21:47,620 --> 00:21:51,670
resources behind trying to
collect on that individual. But

364
00:21:51,670 --> 00:21:54,670
what that doesn't mean is that
that person or that group of

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00:21:54,670 --> 00:21:57,760
people are not somebody that you
want to try and maintain a

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00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,090
relationship with, because that
situation will change, these

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00:22:01,090 --> 00:22:04,600
boxes are not static, and people
are dynamically moving around

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00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,870
from them and their capacities
over time. So if there is a

369
00:22:07,870 --> 00:22:11,890
group of people that you kind of
deemed to be low capacity, low

370
00:22:11,890 --> 00:22:16,600
propensity, in your overall
group of accounts, you don't

371
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,700
want to actually spend time on
those guys, you might not even

372
00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:21,280
try and collect on those
accounts at all, because you'll

373
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,860
just be throwing good money
after bad. But you do want to

374
00:22:23,860 --> 00:22:26,830
maintain a relationship with
those people and try and make

375
00:22:26,830 --> 00:22:31,210
sure it may maintain some sort
of degree of sort of ongoing

376
00:22:31,210 --> 00:22:34,780
thread into them. So that way,
when their situation changes,

377
00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:38,080
you can reach back into them or
they can reach back into you. So

378
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,310
don't look at these hyper
personalisations as being fixed.

379
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They change constantly.

380
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:46,360
Amir Tajkariml: Yeah,
absolutely. And I love that

381
00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:49,810
Brian said, keep the
relationship absolute, it's It's

382
00:22:50,050 --> 00:22:53,320
spot on communication, and
segmentation is only the first

383
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:58,780
part. That's really, that's step
one. Once you've done that, even

384
00:22:58,780 --> 00:23:00,700
through technology, whether
you're communicating via digital

385
00:23:00,700 --> 00:23:04,180
channels, there are certain KPIs
that you can put in place. So

386
00:23:04,180 --> 00:23:09,220
you can detect if oh, this
person is not engaging as they

387
00:23:09,220 --> 00:23:12,730
used to, or this person is not
paying as they used to. So it's

388
00:23:12,730 --> 00:23:15,910
super easy to put in place
doesn't take AI, I mean, you can

389
00:23:15,910 --> 00:23:20,560
just I don't know, this person
is not opening the emails or

390
00:23:20,590 --> 00:23:23,860
clicking on the pay button as
fast as it used to be or they go

391
00:23:23,860 --> 00:23:27,220
on the pay button six times
before actually paying. So

392
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,880
there's certain trends that you
can, you can detect to see if

393
00:23:31,210 --> 00:23:34,690
beyond the hyper personalization
or beyond the segmentation,

394
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,590
something is not going as
planned. And these KPIs within

395
00:23:38,590 --> 00:23:41,980
your collection strategy will
indicate that they will divulge

396
00:23:41,980 --> 00:23:45,640
some information for you to act
accordingly. So maintain that

397
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,430
relationship, whether it's in
person, ideally not and you want

398
00:23:48,430 --> 00:23:50,770
to make it as automated as
possible. I'm talking because

399
00:23:50,770 --> 00:23:55,960
I'm a tech guy. But, ideally,
yeah, you can put some KPIs in

400
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,870
place so that you can there's
some information that pops out

401
00:23:58,870 --> 00:24:03,820
when something is going wrong or
something is not being as as, as

402
00:24:03,820 --> 00:24:06,490
regular as it used to be. It
used to be there was in my

403
00:24:06,490 --> 00:24:06,850
opinion.

404
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:13,780
Nathan Slee: I'll touch on. I'll
touch on that question. Maybe

405
00:24:13,810 --> 00:24:17,620
James, I think because, you
know, I sort of started this

406
00:24:17,620 --> 00:24:21,490
hyper personalization comment.
I'm just trying to now I gotta

407
00:24:21,490 --> 00:24:24,220
navigate zoom to. James, you
have that question in front of

408
00:24:24,220 --> 00:24:25,930
you. So I had it up in this. No,
there it is.

409
00:24:26,250 --> 00:24:29,760
James Rose: Yeah, it was a
question just about hyper

410
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,580
personalization versus privacy.
Is there a line drawn in the

411
00:24:32,580 --> 00:24:33,750
context of collections?

412
00:24:34,290 --> 00:24:36,060
Nathan Slee: And I think the way
I think of it was probably more

413
00:24:36,060 --> 00:24:38,760
the way Brian and Amir were
talking about it, where it's

414
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:43,650
more about using the data you
have to understand and respond

415
00:24:43,650 --> 00:24:47,520
to the behaviors that you're
seeing. Right. So understand

416
00:24:47,550 --> 00:24:50,610
your own like segment your own
portfolio and understand which

417
00:24:50,610 --> 00:24:54,240
segments want to be want to hear
from you at what time of day how

418
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:59,250
frequently you want to use what
payment methods right I don't

419
00:24:59,250 --> 00:25:01,860
think you're good dig into any
privacy concerns or using your

420
00:25:01,860 --> 00:25:06,660
own data to understand your your
portfolio's and their behavior.

421
00:25:06,660 --> 00:25:09,030
And then I think Brian's right
is probably more accurate to

422
00:25:09,030 --> 00:25:12,840
call it hyper segmentation, and
understanding each segments

423
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,300
behavior and each segments
preferences. And again, you can

424
00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:18,150
do that all with your own, with
your own data, where it's not

425
00:25:18,150 --> 00:25:20,460
about digging deeper into the
customer's kind of personal

426
00:25:20,460 --> 00:25:20,880
data.

427
00:25:21,990 --> 00:25:24,330
Amir Tajkariml: And I guess I'm
putting my previous previous

428
00:25:24,330 --> 00:25:28,800
life as a banking lawyer hat,
you use, you know, privacy, you

429
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,190
use the data that you need, in
order to offer the service that

430
00:25:32,220 --> 00:25:35,820
the customer needs, beyond any
other data, that's where you go

431
00:25:35,820 --> 00:25:37,890
into the gray zone. And you
don't want to do that, you

432
00:25:37,890 --> 00:25:40,620
always need to use the data just
to offer the purpose, the

433
00:25:40,620 --> 00:25:43,560
service that the customer needs.
And at the end of the day,

434
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,650
within collections, segmentation
is a service that the customer

435
00:25:46,650 --> 00:25:49,890
needs. So you see, I mean, if
you don't need to know their

436
00:25:49,890 --> 00:25:54,120
their sex or their or their,
their age, in order to offer

437
00:25:54,180 --> 00:25:57,270
good collection strategy, you
might want to avoid that rule of

438
00:25:57,270 --> 00:26:01,080
thumb, but there are some great
sales. But in terms of data, you

439
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:05,370
always want to use the strict
minimum, let's say in a good

440
00:26:05,370 --> 00:26:08,100
rule of thumb in order to offer
the best services possible. And

441
00:26:08,100 --> 00:26:12,300
that best service and that
minimum, are often like zones

442
00:26:12,300 --> 00:26:14,430
that you have to be very
delicate with.

443
00:26:15,300 --> 00:26:17,310
Bryan Szemenyei: I think that's
a good point here. I mean, and

444
00:26:17,310 --> 00:26:21,120
generally, there are certain
aspects, I mean, of of your data

445
00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:23,670
that you want to make sure you,
you understand are more

446
00:26:23,670 --> 00:26:26,460
sensitive than others, even if
you are segmenting people down.

447
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,980
You don't want to be breaking,
you don't want to let the

448
00:26:28,980 --> 00:26:32,880
machine just sort of determine
your behavior. Because if you

449
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,850
are breaking people down in a
way that is based on their age,

450
00:26:35,850 --> 00:26:39,540
or is based on a socio economic
status that ends up meaning you

451
00:26:39,540 --> 00:26:42,210
treat different groups
differently and offer maybe a

452
00:26:42,210 --> 00:26:46,980
different settlement option or a
different resolution option to

453
00:26:46,980 --> 00:26:51,570
one group than another, then you
can run into issues. But that's

454
00:26:51,570 --> 00:26:53,700
where it's that's some of the
art and making sure that your

455
00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:56,700
data is being and your your
models are being effectively

456
00:26:56,700 --> 00:26:59,790
moderated so that you don't just
sort of let the machine run

457
00:26:59,790 --> 00:27:01,680
wild. But it's an it's a good
point.

458
00:27:07,980 --> 00:27:11,040
James Rose: So couldn't they go
right? LM? Do you guys do sort

459
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,920
of segmentation as well? Or do
you guys have maybe a little bit

460
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:18,030
of a different strategy, just in
terms of, you know, just in

461
00:27:18,030 --> 00:27:20,130
terms of channels and what have
you?

462
00:27:22,050 --> 00:27:23,910
Clinton Hosannah: Yeah,
definitely, I want to first

463
00:27:23,910 --> 00:27:28,290
thank the CLA for including us
here in this in this panel is

464
00:27:28,290 --> 00:27:31,350
very interesting hearing what
everyone else is saying. And

465
00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:35,910
I'll echo a lot of what they've
said, I would only add that, you

466
00:27:35,910 --> 00:27:41,640
know, for us a good collection
strategy, while using data and

467
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,120
data mining to make sure that we
stay on top of things, also

468
00:27:45,780 --> 00:27:50,490
includes responsible lending,
and especially in with a

469
00:27:50,730 --> 00:27:55,050
possible looming second wave of
COVID. And obviously, the

470
00:27:55,590 --> 00:28:00,630
impending end of government help
to the people that that need,

471
00:28:00,630 --> 00:28:03,510
and even the companies that
needed therefore employing

472
00:28:03,510 --> 00:28:10,110
people. We also wanted to add
not just to the to the data

473
00:28:10,110 --> 00:28:14,220
mining and the tech aspect to it
to a more empathetic look at our

474
00:28:14,220 --> 00:28:19,320
book, and segment it in where we
take certain demographics. And

475
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,190
then from that, do a focus
group, if you will, and talk to

476
00:28:23,190 --> 00:28:26,580
people preemptively. You know,
maybe when we gave them the

477
00:28:26,580 --> 00:28:28,980
loan, in the beginning, there
were indicators that they were

478
00:28:28,980 --> 00:28:32,040
probably in a higher risk
category, and talk to them about

479
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,440
what they're going through what
they're seeing happening in your

480
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:39,390
own life. And then from that be
able to glean from it which we

481
00:28:39,390 --> 00:28:44,670
have strategies that are kind of
pro proactive. In the event,

482
00:28:44,670 --> 00:28:50,340
there's a second wave. And for
the obvious in eventful

483
00:28:51,030 --> 00:28:54,570
situation where when a funding
stops, that there'll be a lot of

484
00:28:54,570 --> 00:29:00,420
people dealing with what they've
done in terms of deferrals and

485
00:29:00,420 --> 00:29:03,420
whatnot and having to kind of
reconcile that in their own in

486
00:29:03,420 --> 00:29:07,560
their own homes. That being
said, some of the data that

487
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:12,510
we've received not just from the
actual what we have on file for

488
00:29:12,510 --> 00:29:16,710
them, but to compensation to a
segment of the population. We've

489
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:23,040
been able to establish programs
that someone can opt into and I

490
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,300
know when you're dealing with
with massive quantity, it can be

491
00:29:27,300 --> 00:29:32,520
labor risk, but where that labor
is concerned will help us get

492
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,000
more market share in the long
run especially through word of

493
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:36,300
mouth.

494
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,090
James Rose: So what are the
questions that kind of did have

495
00:29:48,090 --> 00:29:53,100
as well kind of went around just
feeling and understanding

496
00:29:53,130 --> 00:29:55,320
particularly with its within
this time just just trying to

497
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,260
understand your economics
clearly. Because right now, you

498
00:29:58,260 --> 00:30:01,890
know, we mentioned there's been
In a huge influx of government

499
00:30:01,890 --> 00:30:04,890
cash, we assume that there's
going to be, you know, a wave

500
00:30:04,890 --> 00:30:07,860
that eventually there's going to
be withdrawal of, you know, some

501
00:30:07,890 --> 00:30:12,780
some of that cash. So how do we
kind of avoid throwing good

502
00:30:12,780 --> 00:30:16,290
money after bad? And what are
some of the strategies that we

503
00:30:16,290 --> 00:30:18,600
can, you know, employ? What are
some of the things that we

504
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:23,100
should actually you don't focus
on? Is it? Or do we just go for,

505
00:30:23,310 --> 00:30:26,850
you know, the large, potentially
large receivables? Or, you know,

506
00:30:26,850 --> 00:30:31,260
do we sort of focus again, with
those segmentations certain

507
00:30:31,260 --> 00:30:34,380
segments where we think we can
get more receivables initially,

508
00:30:34,380 --> 00:30:39,120
and then perhaps, once things
taper off and get a little bit

509
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,690
better, we can, you know, go
against other receivables. So,

510
00:30:42,690 --> 00:30:44,880
sort of what are some of the
strategies to ensure that, you

511
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,850
know, just isn't certainly in
the medium term anyway, short

512
00:30:47,850 --> 00:30:52,230
medium term that we're using
resources and our economics

513
00:30:52,380 --> 00:30:53,760
appropriately and efficiently.

514
00:30:55,190 --> 00:30:58,400
Bryan Szemenyei: Yeah, this is,
sorry, no, please go on.

515
00:30:59,250 --> 00:31:01,860
Clinton Hosannah: I think that
because these are uncertain

516
00:31:01,860 --> 00:31:08,040
times, that there has to be a
certain amount of expenditure

517
00:31:08,250 --> 00:31:13,350
that's allocated, to just kind
of dealing with that exact type

518
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:15,990
of thing. And it's something
that we have to eat knowing that

519
00:31:16,740 --> 00:31:20,250
within the next 12 to 18 months,
that'll come back, obviously,

520
00:31:20,250 --> 00:31:24,000
the businesses out there to be
had, and, you know, kind of like

521
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,930
the canary in the minefield
right now, will be the way

522
00:31:27,930 --> 00:31:33,690
receivables are, are going to be
affected? Should there be a

523
00:31:33,690 --> 00:31:38,910
second wave and if there isn't,
with, with the ending of, of the

524
00:31:38,910 --> 00:31:44,820
government stimulus, seeing how
many people and a lot of studies

525
00:31:44,820 --> 00:31:48,660
out there that are staying on
top of that hardcore, of how

526
00:31:48,660 --> 00:31:52,410
people will actually be impacted
by that, and then we'll be able

527
00:31:52,410 --> 00:31:54,870
to scale up going going for it,
but there has to be some

528
00:31:54,870 --> 00:31:57,330
understanding that there's going
to be some money spent, and will

529
00:31:57,330 --> 00:32:01,830
be more than the not in terms of
keeping your some of your

530
00:32:01,830 --> 00:32:05,340
receivables anyways, and the
more customer service based type

531
00:32:05,340 --> 00:32:07,200
of scenario, instead of going
third party.

532
00:32:09,930 --> 00:32:12,180
Bryan Szemenyei: Yeah, I mean,
it is a challenging time to

533
00:32:12,180 --> 00:32:15,300
understand what it you know,
what segments are going to

534
00:32:15,300 --> 00:32:17,550
behave in what way because as
Clinton says, the government

535
00:32:17,550 --> 00:32:21,390
stimulus programs have just sort
of, you know, poked the machine

536
00:32:21,390 --> 00:32:23,910
and now the machine is acting in
ways that it never has before.

537
00:32:23,910 --> 00:32:26,310
But there's, there's sort of two
elements that I would sort of

538
00:32:26,310 --> 00:32:28,950
highlight as far as
understanding your economics.

539
00:32:29,220 --> 00:32:32,490
And that's really just getting
really clear down to what your

540
00:32:32,490 --> 00:32:35,670
unit costs are on a lot of these
fronts. And there's, there's two

541
00:32:35,670 --> 00:32:39,480
pieces that make that tricky one
is, you get sort of emotionally

542
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,700
attached to the loan that you've
given out. And if you've given

543
00:32:41,700 --> 00:32:44,940
out a $10,000 loan, you then go
to that person and try and

544
00:32:44,940 --> 00:32:50,520
collect a $10,000 loan, that
number is gone, that person has

545
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,100
an a different situation than
when the loan was originated,

546
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,410
could have been a health
incident could have been a job

547
00:32:55,410 --> 00:32:58,410
loss could have been macro
economic factors, but that all

548
00:32:58,410 --> 00:33:01,830
that number represents is the
ceiling of the number that you

549
00:33:01,830 --> 00:33:05,850
are possibly able to recover
from that person, it does not

550
00:33:05,850 --> 00:33:08,310
represent that is the number
that you have to be going after

551
00:33:08,310 --> 00:33:13,110
that individual for because that
person's capacity and propensity

552
00:33:13,110 --> 00:33:15,330
to be able to repay you has
changed dramatically over that

553
00:33:15,330 --> 00:33:18,150
period of time. So you almost
have to re adjudicate that

554
00:33:18,150 --> 00:33:22,110
individual to say how much
credit is this person worth

555
00:33:22,110 --> 00:33:25,950
given their current situation?
And would I take this amount of

556
00:33:25,950 --> 00:33:30,480
credit in replacement for the
$10,000 account or the $20,000

557
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,420
account that I previously had.
And that can be a difficult

558
00:33:33,420 --> 00:33:37,410
emotional point to make, and
that you still get attached to

559
00:33:37,410 --> 00:33:40,590
the $10,000 account. And you may
want to hang around the hoop and

560
00:33:40,590 --> 00:33:43,020
say, You know what, I'm not
going to take a lower amount.

561
00:33:43,020 --> 00:33:45,780
But as we sort of said earlier,
just maintain a relationship,

562
00:33:45,780 --> 00:33:48,630
because we think in the future,
the person will have capacity,

563
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,580
or will have the desire to repay
me. So that's sort of item one.

564
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,150
The second item is about
understanding your cost

565
00:33:57,150 --> 00:34:00,540
structure much more clearly than
you previously have. So you

566
00:34:00,540 --> 00:34:05,010
don't want to spend $3,000
chasing an account that is only

567
00:34:05,010 --> 00:34:07,710
$2,500 in balance, right? I
mean, that's just kind of

568
00:34:07,710 --> 00:34:11,250
obvious. But, you know, you've
got to really understand how

569
00:34:11,250 --> 00:34:15,810
these costs that you incur,
compare against the benefits

570
00:34:15,810 --> 00:34:18,720
that you're that you're getting
on them. And if you're spending

571
00:34:18,720 --> 00:34:22,230
an inordinate amount of money to
try and track down low balance

572
00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:25,530
accounts, or even mid balance
accounts, then you probably

573
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,140
could be taking those dollars
and redeploying them into

574
00:34:28,140 --> 00:34:31,920
originations and making a better
return on equity in that side of

575
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,430
your business. So it is a it is
something you really understand

576
00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:38,130
need to understand your your
unit economics and and your

577
00:34:38,130 --> 00:34:40,350
opportunity costs much more
clearly.

578
00:34:42,539 --> 00:34:45,749
Amir Tajkariml: I again, I
agree. We're aligned on a lot of

579
00:34:45,749 --> 00:34:51,869
things that Clinton and Brian
said in my opinion in terms of

580
00:34:51,869 --> 00:34:54,989
treating where how you attack
your receivables i I personally

581
00:34:54,989 --> 00:34:57,749
believe that not you know, not
everybody is an absolute

582
00:34:57,749 --> 00:34:59,969
delinquent as soon as they are
laden on an on a on an

583
00:34:59,999 --> 00:35:04,589
receivable. I think one strategy
can be to focus on the low

584
00:35:04,589 --> 00:35:09,149
hanging fruit. Early delinquency
can be salvaged through

585
00:35:09,149 --> 00:35:13,019
automation. Again, to come back
to that. I think automation can

586
00:35:13,019 --> 00:35:17,339
help attack a lot of those
receivables that can be self

587
00:35:17,339 --> 00:35:21,089
cured. And you can allow your
team, your collection agents to

588
00:35:21,089 --> 00:35:23,579
actually focus on the more
complex accounts, the ones that

589
00:35:23,579 --> 00:35:26,729
actually need human
intervention, those can have

590
00:35:26,729 --> 00:35:29,789
their own treatment cycle, those
can have their own strategy. But

591
00:35:29,789 --> 00:35:33,749
there's a lot of a portion of
it, where you can, you can

592
00:35:33,749 --> 00:35:37,199
automate and collect from using
using automation using using

593
00:35:37,409 --> 00:35:42,509
software. And that will allow
you to basically kind of fucking

594
00:35:42,509 --> 00:35:45,329
hone down on what are we
actually focusing on? Because a

595
00:35:45,329 --> 00:35:49,739
lot of it is being handled in
the background? That's one thing

596
00:35:49,739 --> 00:35:51,749
and I noticed that very
interesting question. I think

597
00:35:51,749 --> 00:35:55,739
Kevin is put there, James, that
okay, if I answer it, or well,

598
00:35:55,739 --> 00:35:58,469
we'll give her opinion on it. Is
that okay? I can't hear you.

599
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:05,310
Clinton Hosannah: Yeah, go
ahead. Please, go ahead.

600
00:36:06,750 --> 00:36:10,530
Amir Tajkariml: Yeah. And it's,
we noticed is, how effective is

601
00:36:10,530 --> 00:36:14,670
having multiple payment methods?
Do you see there's a substantial

602
00:36:14,670 --> 00:36:17,760
decrease for defaults, we
noticed that adding credit card,

603
00:36:17,820 --> 00:36:22,680
bank transfer and PayPal, it
just it absolutely increases

604
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,430
payment methods. Because don't
forget, quite often, maybe one

605
00:36:26,430 --> 00:36:29,760
account doesn't have money, but
your payroll is now deposited

606
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,490
into another account, you didn't
have time to transfer that

607
00:36:32,490 --> 00:36:36,030
account, or that payment method,
just being able to do it and

608
00:36:36,030 --> 00:36:39,090
select different accounts on
your own on your mobile is

609
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:44,040
absolutely tremendous. And it
really increases your collection

610
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,920
rates. And the other one, how
effective is communication via

611
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,220
social media? Again, I'm putting
my my previous lawyer hat,

612
00:36:50,670 --> 00:36:54,720
usually, when a loan is given to
a consumer, you have a clause in

613
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:57,000
there that says you allow us to
communicate with you via the

614
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,450
method that you have provided,
if one of those method is social

615
00:37:00,450 --> 00:37:03,690
media, I guess it's okay. But
it's very, very rare that you

616
00:37:03,690 --> 00:37:07,980
give your Twitter handle or your
Facebook handle to it. And in

617
00:37:07,980 --> 00:37:12,300
terms of commercial loans, you
always have section 13 is always

618
00:37:12,300 --> 00:37:15,780
there right before miscellaneous
that says notices can be sent to

619
00:37:15,780 --> 00:37:19,800
this email address or this email
address for the borrower or

620
00:37:19,860 --> 00:37:24,960
creditor. So I mean, unless it's
actually allowed, I don't think

621
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,270
you can, you can send
communication via social media,

622
00:37:27,270 --> 00:37:29,670
that's an opens Pandora's box,

623
00:37:30,150 --> 00:37:32,820
Bryan Szemenyei: I would echo
that point is that, you know,

624
00:37:32,820 --> 00:37:36,000
going on, there are some
precedents not in Canada, but

625
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:40,020
in, in Europe, and some in the
US of companies trying to use

626
00:37:40,020 --> 00:37:44,190
social media as a as a means in
order to collect. And it's sort

627
00:37:44,190 --> 00:37:46,770
of the equivalent to sort of
driving up to somebody's house

628
00:37:46,770 --> 00:37:50,010
and then putting a stake in
their lawn as this person owes

629
00:37:50,010 --> 00:37:53,250
money. And it really is not
received well by government

630
00:37:53,250 --> 00:37:58,980
regulators, by rightfully so. So
I would highly caution against

631
00:37:59,250 --> 00:38:03,540
against using social media as a
as a channel, but the having

632
00:38:03,540 --> 00:38:07,170
multiple payment channels is
certainly useful. Again, a point

633
00:38:07,170 --> 00:38:10,740
of caution is anytime you add
multiple payment channels, you

634
00:38:10,740 --> 00:38:13,290
will cannibalize some of your
previous payment channels, which

635
00:38:13,290 --> 00:38:15,660
might be fine. I mean,
ultimately, the objective is to

636
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,630
remove friction from the
customer's payment process

637
00:38:18,630 --> 00:38:22,260
cycle. But if you're sort of
input, bringing in a payment

638
00:38:22,260 --> 00:38:25,200
processing system, for example,
like I'll use square as an

639
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,420
example, though, it's not one
that you need to be you need to

640
00:38:27,420 --> 00:38:31,740
be physically there. But it has
a very high transaction cost. If

641
00:38:31,740 --> 00:38:35,130
you're if you're cannibalizing
some people from another payment

642
00:38:35,130 --> 00:38:39,780
cycle, which is a lower, lower
cost transaction over to a

643
00:38:39,780 --> 00:38:42,840
higher cost transaction channel,
you're just dropping your costs,

644
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,300
you're not really increasing
your recoveries, there might be

645
00:38:45,300 --> 00:38:47,640
some offsetting effect there,
but just make sure you

646
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,850
understand that it's not about
having 1000 different payment

647
00:38:50,850 --> 00:38:54,390
cycles, it's about having five
really good payment channels.

648
00:38:55,620 --> 00:38:58,710
Nathan Slee: Just to pick up on
that a little bit to go a little

649
00:38:58,710 --> 00:39:01,860
deeper on that. I mean, I think
as we're all trying to roll out

650
00:39:01,860 --> 00:39:07,320
new strategies and come up with
ways to be more resilient. You

651
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,930
know, don't don't be shy to
start slow, right? Like, like,

652
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,420
if you're rolling out a new
payment tool, you know, roll it

653
00:39:12,420 --> 00:39:15,060
out to a very small segment,
write test everything first be

654
00:39:15,060 --> 00:39:18,270
scientific about it, understand
if it is having the desired

655
00:39:18,270 --> 00:39:20,790
impact or not having the desired
impact, right, like don't get

656
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,990
don't panic and roll something
out new to your entire portfolio

657
00:39:24,990 --> 00:39:27,690
without seeing if it's worked or
not, right, give give everything

658
00:39:27,690 --> 00:39:30,990
a chance in a small test
environment and measure those

659
00:39:30,990 --> 00:39:33,360
results to make sure that you're
actually getting what you want.

660
00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:39,690
James Rose: Absolutely. I guess
sort of to that point. So

661
00:39:39,690 --> 00:39:45,570
starting slow, is there any
reimagining different types of

662
00:39:45,570 --> 00:39:48,900
partnerships for example, that,
you know, we can exploit just in

663
00:39:48,900 --> 00:39:52,170
terms of more efficient
strategies going forward just to

664
00:39:52,170 --> 00:39:56,100
ensure that you know, the old
adage together we're stronger

665
00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,720
type thing is, is that any of
your guys's mindsets are, you

666
00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:01,380
know, at this time?

667
00:40:02,399 --> 00:40:04,229
Clinton Hosannah: I'm planning
to partner with everyone in this

668
00:40:04,229 --> 00:40:04,589
channel.

669
00:40:07,930 --> 00:40:10,090
Bryan Szemenyei: Well, and I
think I think the point that I

670
00:40:10,090 --> 00:40:12,040
was trying to make and this is
obviously sort of, you know,

671
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,310
self serving is I think all of
our businesses are built on the

672
00:40:15,310 --> 00:40:20,200
idea of partnering with each
other. Because in in sort of an

673
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,530
individual basis, no company,
you know, within the CLI makes

674
00:40:23,530 --> 00:40:27,220
up a significant conglomerate to
an absolute behemoth

675
00:40:27,220 --> 00:40:30,550
organization, like a bank that
has all of these verticals, and

676
00:40:30,550 --> 00:40:33,520
can build out all the components
and build out their product

677
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,190
teams and their tech teams, and
they have 20 people on a single

678
00:40:36,190 --> 00:40:40,840
channel and all those pieces,
that will never be the path for

679
00:40:40,870 --> 00:40:43,990
small business. And it shouldn't
be, it's not the most effective

680
00:40:43,990 --> 00:40:48,850
way to to grow our businesses as
a whole, because the opportunity

681
00:40:48,850 --> 00:40:51,730
costs and the resources and the
time to deployment are just way

682
00:40:51,730 --> 00:40:55,930
too high. So I encourage all
companies within the CLA to look

683
00:40:55,930 --> 00:41:01,030
into the network that this is
because individually, we

684
00:41:01,030 --> 00:41:05,830
represent a vast array of very
deep experts. And frankly, I

685
00:41:05,830 --> 00:41:09,130
think better experts than exist
in a lot of more larger

686
00:41:09,130 --> 00:41:13,540
conglomerates. So collectively,
you do have quite a expansive

687
00:41:13,690 --> 00:41:15,880
suite of capabilities, there's
some things that you want to

688
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:17,950
internalize. And there's some
things that you want to

689
00:41:17,950 --> 00:41:21,550
externalize. But I think
partnerships are the much more

690
00:41:21,550 --> 00:41:26,620
effective way to deploy and test
and decrease the risks that

691
00:41:26,620 --> 00:41:30,370
something will not, will not
sort of be effectively launched.

692
00:41:30,370 --> 00:41:36,130
So yes, is this is the quicker
answer to utilize partnerships

693
00:41:36,130 --> 00:41:36,970
wherever you can and.

694
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,410
Clinton Hosannah: You know, in
this, in this age of

695
00:41:41,770 --> 00:41:46,990
uncertainty, especially as it
relates to what may happen in in

696
00:41:46,990 --> 00:41:52,960
the fall, in regards to stimulus
as well as possible second wave,

697
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:58,930
Echo Brian's sentiments were I'm
looking forward to being able to

698
00:42:00,250 --> 00:42:04,930
lobby government, federal and
provincial for leverage that

699
00:42:04,930 --> 00:42:09,970
will allow for less red tape.
And in certain instances when it

700
00:42:09,970 --> 00:42:13,690
comes to lending and for sure,
in terms of collections, while

701
00:42:13,690 --> 00:42:18,400
being responsible, and having,
you know, a kind of pulse on

702
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,960
what's happening with the the
Canadian public still be able to

703
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:27,670
be effective at it, you know,
because I will say that some of

704
00:42:27,670 --> 00:42:31,960
the people that we've heard from
when it comes to collections,

705
00:42:32,140 --> 00:42:34,570
from what they hear in the
media, what they have a clear

706
00:42:34,570 --> 00:42:37,120
understanding or not, it's kind
of like, I don't have to pay in

707
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,240
on their smug about it in the
sense that, hey, you know, what,

708
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:42,580
you know, it's COVID, you know,
what I mean? And I'm thinking to

709
00:42:42,580 --> 00:42:46,510
myself, you know, you have to be
wise, I don't want to say

710
00:42:46,510 --> 00:42:49,750
something to them that's going
to, you know, make them feel

711
00:42:49,750 --> 00:42:51,910
like, they have no
understanding, but the truth of

712
00:42:51,910 --> 00:42:54,430
the matter is that, you know,
with deferrals and taken

713
00:42:54,430 --> 00:42:56,500
advantage of these types of
things, whether it's with us or

714
00:42:56,500 --> 00:42:59,890
with a big bank, the chickens
will, at one time, come home to

715
00:42:59,890 --> 00:43:05,110
roost, you know, and we'll be
there still. So I think the CLA

716
00:43:05,110 --> 00:43:09,460
being this conduit to be able to
lobby government and kind of

717
00:43:09,670 --> 00:43:14,830
help shepherd some of the people
that are going to be hurt with

718
00:43:15,370 --> 00:43:19,870
with these pain points is why so
a lot of the projecting that we

719
00:43:19,870 --> 00:43:23,950
can do a lot of the planning
that we can do squarely lens in

720
00:43:23,950 --> 00:43:31,900
the the understanding that our
relationship all converge with

721
00:43:31,900 --> 00:43:35,740
this CLA type of middle ground.

722
00:43:41,789 --> 00:43:42,989
Amir Tajkariml: Yeah, what
Clinton said.

723
00:43:47,219 --> 00:43:53,399
James R: Keep muting myself
there. So we're at 10. Well, we

724
00:43:53,399 --> 00:43:55,589
got about 14 more minutes left.
So I just want to encourage

725
00:43:55,589 --> 00:43:58,469
anybody if they've had
questions, we were like I said,

726
00:43:58,469 --> 00:44:01,589
we're going to leave the last 15
minutes for questions to the

727
00:44:01,589 --> 00:44:05,579
end. But again, we're all
obviously wanting to encourage

728
00:44:05,579 --> 00:44:09,059
people to ask questions
throughout. But just given that

729
00:44:09,089 --> 00:44:11,759
we're sort of nearing the end,
if you do have any questions, do

730
00:44:11,759 --> 00:44:15,479
encourage you just to go in the
q&a box or type them in, and our

731
00:44:15,479 --> 00:44:20,549
panelists will certainly be
happy to inter entertain those.

732
00:44:25,499 --> 00:44:35,819
So I guess maybe just moving on
to the next topic. Is just in

733
00:44:35,849 --> 00:44:38,759
regards to the Yeah, the
government us, you know,

734
00:44:38,759 --> 00:44:46,139
stimulus programs and the, you
know, withdrawal of that. And

735
00:44:46,169 --> 00:44:48,749
how do you think what do you
think is going to be the biggest

736
00:44:48,749 --> 00:44:52,979
factor and biggest risk to our
respective firms or firms or

737
00:44:52,979 --> 00:44:57,299
businesses as those you know,
government payments, you know,

738
00:44:57,299 --> 00:45:00,989
sort of do come to a halt.
Obvious See, when we're dealing

739
00:45:00,989 --> 00:45:03,269
with bankruptcies, you know,
there's a process there that's

740
00:45:03,269 --> 00:45:07,649
sort of out of our hands. But
how is it that we can best sort

741
00:45:07,649 --> 00:45:14,729
of manage that as the inevitable
government funding does come to

742
00:45:14,759 --> 00:45:15,329
a halt?

743
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,640
Bryan Szemenyei: Yeah, is so I
think as that government program

744
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:22,260
is going to come to a halt,
there's going to be sort of some

745
00:45:22,260 --> 00:45:27,150
specific consumer effects.
Naturally, for those people who

746
00:45:27,150 --> 00:45:30,330
are on certain programs who are
not able to transition to EI,

747
00:45:30,330 --> 00:45:34,110
they'll find a pretty material
drop in their, in their top line

748
00:45:34,110 --> 00:45:37,560
income, that they've got
available to them. And sort of

749
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,630
concurrently that a little not a
lot of people are sort of

750
00:45:39,630 --> 00:45:42,990
noticing as well. OSFI right now
is changing the regulations

751
00:45:42,990 --> 00:45:45,720
around how it recognizes
mortgage deferrals, which is

752
00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:49,590
going to make it much more
difficult for for the banks in

753
00:45:49,590 --> 00:45:52,590
order to continue their their
mortgage deferral programs, and

754
00:45:52,590 --> 00:45:55,980
they're going to start pushing
to get those those payments back

755
00:45:55,980 --> 00:45:58,980
up to good standing. So as a
result of that, you're going to

756
00:45:58,980 --> 00:46:02,400
see a very material top line
drop in people's income and a

757
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:06,210
pretty material increase in
people's non discretionary

758
00:46:06,210 --> 00:46:10,410
spending. So those items are
going to create quite a bit of

759
00:46:10,410 --> 00:46:15,930
squeeze and a crunch on free
cash flow available for for debt

760
00:46:15,930 --> 00:46:19,050
retirement or savings. And as
much as people have been

761
00:46:19,050 --> 00:46:22,230
satisfying their debts during
this period of time, that will

762
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,640
affect recovery rates, and it
will affect delinquency rates as

763
00:46:26,670 --> 00:46:29,580
people can't satisfy minimum
payments on their debt. So that

764
00:46:29,580 --> 00:46:33,150
is what will happen in the fall.
Right. The question then is how

765
00:46:33,150 --> 00:46:35,970
do you sort of prepare, you
know, for that exercise, and and

766
00:46:35,970 --> 00:46:38,580
what can you do in order to try
and to try and satisfy it? I

767
00:46:38,580 --> 00:46:41,040
think that's kind of what we've
been trying to talk about today.

768
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,440
And but establishing those
relationships early and get

769
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:48,630
those those sorts of pieces in
place. You know, ultimately, for

770
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:51,360
those consumers, though, they're
going to, they're going to stop

771
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,540
paying. And I think people need
to establish a, you know, as

772
00:46:54,540 --> 00:46:57,540
we've started from the beginning
of relationship now, in order to

773
00:46:57,570 --> 00:47:02,040
maintain some degree of
consistency on a post on a sort

774
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:06,720
of a post stimulus basis. Now,
the other open question here is

775
00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:08,820
whether or not there will be a
second round of stimulus

776
00:47:08,820 --> 00:47:11,400
programs that are being put in
place. I think one thing I've

777
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,610
learned through this exercise is
don't fight the Fed in Canadian

778
00:47:14,610 --> 00:47:17,640
version of it. So don't fight
the BOC, if you want to call it

779
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:21,720
that. So wait and see whether or
not there is a another program

780
00:47:21,720 --> 00:47:24,510
that is run out. But if that
does happen, then we'll find

781
00:47:24,510 --> 00:47:26,940
this will just keep pushing, you
know these items out farther and

782
00:47:26,940 --> 00:47:30,870
farther. Specific as it relates
to insolvencies. insolvencies,

783
00:47:30,870 --> 00:47:33,840
as you mentioned, James, those
are a difficult one in order to

784
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:37,470
prevent the actual event from
occurring. Because by the time

785
00:47:37,470 --> 00:47:39,630
you receive an insolvency,
notice the consumer has already

786
00:47:39,630 --> 00:47:42,420
walked into a trustees office,
they filled out an insolvency

787
00:47:42,420 --> 00:47:46,080
form, they've gone through the
financial disclosures, and

788
00:47:46,110 --> 00:47:49,380
they've submitted the file,
they've already jumped the sort

789
00:47:49,380 --> 00:47:52,320
of emotional shark if you will,
and they're filing that process.

790
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,170
So there's very little
mitigation you can do to the

791
00:47:55,170 --> 00:47:58,980
event itself. What you can do is
evaluate the insolvencies that

792
00:47:58,980 --> 00:48:01,800
are coming through, they're not
written in stone that the

793
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,980
information that is presented is
the information that you must

794
00:48:04,980 --> 00:48:08,520
accept. There are excuse me,
challenge options, there are

795
00:48:09,090 --> 00:48:11,880
sort of different tactics you
can take with the trustees in

796
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,970
order to try and increase the
quality of the insolvency that

797
00:48:14,970 --> 00:48:19,050
is coming. Those have very
strict guidelines around them.

798
00:48:19,050 --> 00:48:21,750
And you know, we could spend a
whole session on that as well.

799
00:48:21,750 --> 00:48:24,690
But don't ignore that part of
your book, because it does

800
00:48:24,690 --> 00:48:26,250
require some attention as well.

801
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:32,220
Clinton Hosannah: I think that
part of this, too, is keeping an

802
00:48:32,220 --> 00:48:37,110
eye on what's going to happening
politically. I mean, if Erin

803
00:48:37,110 --> 00:48:42,870
O'Toole triggers a an election
after Troodos throne speech, and

804
00:48:43,590 --> 00:48:46,890
depending on what happens after
that, if we're in a situation

805
00:48:46,890 --> 00:48:49,350
with majority Liberal
government, federal Liberal

806
00:48:49,350 --> 00:48:54,660
government or a majority or
minority, new, more right

807
00:48:54,660 --> 00:49:01,230
leaning federal government, and
we can rest assured that how the

808
00:49:01,230 --> 00:49:03,990
stimulus potential stimulus
package if there is a second

809
00:49:03,990 --> 00:49:10,950
wave is rolled out, definitely
affect what we can do. But

810
00:49:10,980 --> 00:49:15,600
paying attention to it on on
that level also gives us an

811
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:19,080
opportunity to be ready again,
in the event that there isn't, I

812
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:22,200
mean, you know, Canada's doing
very well, we obviously should

813
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:25,830
be doing better, like lower
numbers in terms of cases of

814
00:49:25,830 --> 00:49:28,860
people getting COVID, but it's
still pretty low. And I think

815
00:49:28,860 --> 00:49:33,300
that if there isn't a second
wave, we know for a fact that

816
00:49:33,300 --> 00:49:35,430
they're not going to want to
pull out money instead, it'd be

817
00:49:35,430 --> 00:49:40,320
more of an aggressive way to
lower deficit. And with that

818
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,360
being the case fiscal
responsibility would be the

819
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:48,360
message. And as long as that
message is being communicated,

820
00:49:48,390 --> 00:49:54,180
whether it's through tech, in
in, in what we do, AI or

821
00:49:54,180 --> 00:49:59,580
otherwise, that's how we can
make sure to, to mitigate what

822
00:49:59,580 --> 00:50:01,890
can become Other hand
collections, but at the end of

823
00:50:01,890 --> 00:50:05,160
the day, there should be a lot
more business coming in and

824
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,920
hopefully that it helps on that
end to in terms of acquisition.

825
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:17,310
James Rose: Or question here,
from Eric, options, benefits

826
00:50:17,310 --> 00:50:21,420
last drawbacks of third party
slaps external collections or

827
00:50:21,420 --> 00:50:24,900
credit counseling for first
notice and or unresponsive

828
00:50:24,900 --> 00:50:28,260
clients, good extending an offer
for assistance be more

829
00:50:28,260 --> 00:50:28,770
effective.

830
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:36,810
Bryan Szemenyei: I'm not going
to begin, but I'll turn it over

831
00:50:36,810 --> 00:50:42,540
to others who always have an
opinion. You know, if somebody

832
00:50:42,540 --> 00:50:45,240
else feel free to jump in, I
think there's different kinds of

833
00:50:45,240 --> 00:50:46,830
categories that you've kind of
broken out there. If I

834
00:50:46,830 --> 00:50:50,430
understand the question, it's
what for very early stage

835
00:50:50,430 --> 00:50:52,980
delinquency, should I be
internalizing that that

836
00:50:52,980 --> 00:50:55,800
activity? Or should I be
partnering with a third party

837
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,950
collection agency, or a credit
counselor in order to send a

838
00:50:58,950 --> 00:51:02,550
notice from a third party, will
that generate a better response

839
00:51:02,580 --> 00:51:06,000
than it would if I just send
another notice from the company

840
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,510
that I already have? I think to
some degree, that depends on the

841
00:51:09,510 --> 00:51:11,760
hyper personalization that we
kind of talked to at the

842
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,250
beginning, it depends on the
customer. And that if you

843
00:51:14,250 --> 00:51:17,550
already have a positive
relationship with that customer,

844
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,510
then you should be able to
generate a better response than

845
00:51:21,690 --> 00:51:25,440
a third party agency being kind
of dropped in front of them. I'd

846
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:29,400
also caution that a third party
agency can sometimes create a

847
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,100
little bit of a defensive
posture from a consumers

848
00:51:32,100 --> 00:51:35,970
perspective, and that they, they
suddenly feel like they can't

849
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:39,240
call out and reach out to you
because they're, they're being

850
00:51:39,270 --> 00:51:41,700
reached out by a collection
agency, it's not always the

851
00:51:41,700 --> 00:51:45,030
case. But sometimes it can have
that sort of effect with people.

852
00:51:45,570 --> 00:51:47,700
So you've got to be a little bit
cautious, it can be a little bit

853
00:51:47,700 --> 00:51:53,850
expensive, but it is a effective
means in order to induce an

854
00:51:53,850 --> 00:51:57,240
activity from a consumer who you
haven't been able to develop an

855
00:51:57,240 --> 00:52:00,540
effective relationship with or
who was already in a defensive

856
00:52:00,540 --> 00:52:04,290
posture, you know, you're better
to kind of push that

857
00:52:04,290 --> 00:52:07,620
relationship and let them be the
bad guy than it is to let you be

858
00:52:07,620 --> 00:52:10,830
the bad guy. So it kind of
depends on that. As it relates

859
00:52:10,830 --> 00:52:13,080
to the credit counseling
industry, it is important to

860
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:14,970
break the credit counseling
industry into its kind of

861
00:52:14,970 --> 00:52:18,600
constituent pieces. There are
for profit credit counselors and

862
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,690
their non for profit credit
credit counselors, the non for

863
00:52:21,690 --> 00:52:26,070
profit credit counselors are a
softer approach to the consumer.

864
00:52:26,070 --> 00:52:29,070
And they don't cost the consumer
as much money, they cost the

865
00:52:29,070 --> 00:52:33,540
creditor money. But it is a more
sort of accepted version, I

866
00:52:33,540 --> 00:52:38,490
would say of credit counseling
for the consumer space, the for

867
00:52:38,490 --> 00:52:41,610
profit credit counselors will
actually charge the consumer

868
00:52:41,610 --> 00:52:44,820
money. And I don't want to sort
of paint them all with a single

869
00:52:44,820 --> 00:52:48,330
brush, but they sort of to help
the consumer dodge their debts.

870
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:51,690
So it's a different type of
process than it is somebody

871
00:52:51,690 --> 00:52:54,540
who's actually helping them
resolve their debts. And I would

872
00:52:54,540 --> 00:52:57,810
say make sure that if you're if
you're going down that path,

873
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,120
even if it is a for profit, make
sure it's the right type of for

874
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,660
profit. And it's not just
kicking off a relationship to

875
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,780
another party whose primary job
is going to be to wrestle that

876
00:53:06,780 --> 00:53:07,770
relationship from you.

877
00:53:07,770 --> 00:53:13,720
Amir Tajkariml: Yeah I knew
that, it might be what we see

878
00:53:13,720 --> 00:53:18,010
with our clients is that if in
early delinquency, you want to

879
00:53:18,010 --> 00:53:20,980
go to third party what that does
is one yes, absolutely. Like

880
00:53:20,980 --> 00:53:24,490
Brian said, it's expensive. But
we also noticed that it kind of

881
00:53:25,060 --> 00:53:27,730
this we work with telcos, we
work with utilities, we work

882
00:53:27,730 --> 00:53:30,130
with banks, and they told us
listen, we want to avoid going

883
00:53:30,130 --> 00:53:33,310
to collection is third party is
good. I'm not I'm not bashing

884
00:53:33,310 --> 00:53:36,040
anyone. But I'm just saying, we
want to avoid getting going to

885
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:38,290
collections at the beginning,
because we noticed as soon as

886
00:53:38,290 --> 00:53:41,080
you go to collections, it kind
of breaks that relationship

887
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:45,610
between us and the customer. And
what it also does is that that

888
00:53:45,610 --> 00:53:50,470
collect third party doesn't
necessarily have your brand, as

889
00:53:50,500 --> 00:53:53,890
a at heart in terms of that,
that's our value proposition.

890
00:53:53,890 --> 00:53:57,130
They're working with multiple
brands. So it may have an effect

891
00:53:57,130 --> 00:53:59,530
on your brand, because the
strategies may be a little bit,

892
00:53:59,860 --> 00:54:03,790
a little bit more tough and
right, rightfully so. But just

893
00:54:03,790 --> 00:54:06,700
in terms of early collection.
That's why one of the we've

894
00:54:06,700 --> 00:54:09,730
noticed these days. And now
especially with all the social

895
00:54:09,730 --> 00:54:13,000
media out there, as soon as you
see a bad review, it can affect

896
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:17,290
the whole, the whole the whole
pie. So you want to be as

897
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:23,500
flexible and as keep as internal
as possible. Because it can, it

898
00:54:23,500 --> 00:54:26,260
can break the relationship if
you go to third party a bit too

899
00:54:26,260 --> 00:54:31,510
soon. What we've noticed the
past 50 years, six to seven

900
00:54:31,510 --> 00:54:36,040
years collection has always been
a little bit on the on the rigid

901
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:41,230
side. And nowadays flexibility
is key. You need to keep that as

902
00:54:41,230 --> 00:54:44,410
internal as possible. And we've
seen the results are better when

903
00:54:44,410 --> 00:54:47,470
you try internally to handle
that situation with the

904
00:54:47,470 --> 00:54:50,200
customer. And then ultimately if
it doesn't work, we're like you

905
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:53,770
know, you've tried your your
different scenarios, and then

906
00:54:53,770 --> 00:54:56,020
you can give it up to a third
party anyways, in our

907
00:54:56,020 --> 00:54:58,840
experience, we've noticed that
internalizing it as much as

908
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:02,470
possible at the earliest at
early stage makes a difference.

909
00:55:04,150 --> 00:55:06,550
Because brands right now like
big brands, Rogers, these,

910
00:55:07,030 --> 00:55:11,410
they're very, they're very
worried that their brand may may

911
00:55:11,410 --> 00:55:15,340
be affected, right, it's very
important to keep that perfect

912
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:19,660
reputation. And off very often
has happened. And we have data

913
00:55:19,660 --> 00:55:21,760
to show it. I mean, we're not
going to hide themselves. It's

914
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:24,280
that when it goes very often,
when it good went to collection

915
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:28,030
agency, it became a little bit
rough. So that's that's the

916
00:55:28,030 --> 00:55:32,050
thing, but it's all changing.
It's all improving. And with

917
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:35,440
those my comments regarding
early collections, or lead

918
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:35,950
delinquency.

919
00:55:39,300 --> 00:55:42,204
James Rose: Right,1 we have,
maybe time for one more

920
00:55:42,277 --> 00:55:46,416
question. So just play if
anybody has one. But I guess in

921
00:55:46,489 --> 00:55:51,064
the meantime, I'm going to hand
it back to Tom here. But I just

922
00:55:51,136 --> 00:55:55,639
saw just want to thank the panel
for sharing your insights and

923
00:55:55,711 --> 00:55:59,560
with us and your, your, your
tips, and how to build a

924
00:55:59,633 --> 00:56:02,755
maintaining resilient
collections practice,

925
00:56:02,828 --> 00:56:07,258
particularly within these times
of uncertainty. But you know,

926
00:56:07,330 --> 00:56:11,397
one of the things that I got out
of it, though, as well,

927
00:56:11,470 --> 00:56:16,045
especially we're talking about
the beginning, you know, certain

928
00:56:16,117 --> 00:56:20,765
strategies that can be employed,
or I guess, kind of things that

929
00:56:20,838 --> 00:56:25,413
we should be doing anyway. And
if we're constantly doing those,

930
00:56:25,485 --> 00:56:28,971
looking back at what's
effective, and what's not

931
00:56:29,044 --> 00:56:33,183
effective, that'll certainly
help by us, you know, in the

932
00:56:33,255 --> 00:56:37,395
future, because things are
always dynamic and changing. I

933
00:56:37,467 --> 00:56:42,042
guess this is just more of one
of a degree. So yes, I just want

934
00:56:42,115 --> 00:56:46,617
to thank Amir and Nathan, Brian,
and Ben, for joining us today

935
00:56:46,690 --> 00:56:50,757
and having this opportunity,
also to moderate and it was

936
00:56:50,829 --> 00:56:55,114
great meeting you virtually as
well. And yeah, thank you to

937
00:56:55,186 --> 00:56:59,761
everybody who participated and
throughout the country, and I'll

938
00:56:59,834 --> 00:57:01,650
just hand it back to Tal.

939
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:06,030
Tal Schwartz: Thanks so much,
James. And thank you, everyone,

940
00:57:06,030 --> 00:57:11,400
for a really interesting
discussion. We, like I mentioned

941
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:14,310
at the beginning, we're going to
be circulating the recording to

942
00:57:14,310 --> 00:57:16,650
everyone that registered, so
don't worry if you miss a little

943
00:57:16,650 --> 00:57:20,430
bit of it. And, you know, we'd
love to have you back. We're

944
00:57:20,430 --> 00:57:23,760
running these webinars on
different topics and lending and

945
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:28,290
fintech almost every month. So
if you want to participate, if

946
00:57:28,290 --> 00:57:31,950
you have a topic that you'd
really like us to cover, or if

947
00:57:31,950 --> 00:57:35,460
you just want to be more
involved in the Kenyan lenders

948
00:57:35,460 --> 00:57:40,350
Association, please reach out at
myself or, or follow us on

949
00:57:40,350 --> 00:57:46,290
LinkedIn. Again, thank you so
much to Lexa up for sponsoring

950
00:57:46,290 --> 00:57:51,630
this, this webinar. And we'll be
sharing laptops contact

951
00:57:51,630 --> 00:57:56,400
information as well in when we
share the recording. So if I Oh,

952
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:00,420
thank you, everyone so much for
joining us across the country.

953
00:58:00,690 --> 00:58:02,580
And I will see you all very,
very soon.

954
00:58:03,420 --> 00:58:05,370
Unknown: Thank you. Appreciate
you guys.