00:00.000 --> 00:02.220 Johny Fernandez: So welcome to deBanked News Live. I'm Johny 00:02.220 --> 00:06.180 Fernandez here with Sean Murray. Sean. Let's do this. Welcome 00:06.180 --> 00:06.600 back. 00:06.810 --> 00:07.620 Sean Murray: Thank you. Thank you. 00:07.890 --> 00:10.770 Johny Fernandez: So let's get straight to it. So big news on 00:10.770 --> 00:14.970 Bitcoin. It's up to $18,000. Let's let's talk about it I 00:14.970 --> 00:17.520 mean, what exactly happened and what's going on now? 00:17.520 --> 00:20.570 Sean Murray: Yeah it's like the big story that nobody's talking 00:20.570 --> 00:26.360 about, right? No, no, like, individual person seems to be 00:26.360 --> 00:30.290 buying Bitcoin. It seems to be like faceless corporations 00:30.590 --> 00:33.860 buying up the price. That's what it looks like. Right? Yeah. 00:33.890 --> 00:36.620 Because in 2017, when we had the big bull run the big bull 00:36.620 --> 00:40.580 market, everyone was talking about it. Your cab driver was 00:40.580 --> 00:43.160 talking about it. My friends are talking about it. You know, 00:43.160 --> 00:44.840 people's parents and grandparents were asking. 00:44.840 --> 00:48.650 Everyone had it. Everyone had it. Yeah. CNBC was talking about 00:48.650 --> 00:52.070 it constantly. Right now nobody's talking about it, cause 00:52.070 --> 00:55.160 the price is right back up to where it was back at the peak of 00:55.160 --> 00:59.000 the bull run. So something is wrong. Why is the price going 00:59.000 --> 01:02.540 up? But nobody's talking about it? So I think what's happening 01:02.540 --> 01:06.890 right now is we're probably have some sort of artificial market. 01:07.340 --> 01:10.010 And I think that even though we're talking about it, and it's 01:10.010 --> 01:12.110 really exciting. Bitcoins going up and you're like, oh, man, 01:12.110 --> 01:15.230 should I buy anything? This is not like financial advice. 01:15.590 --> 01:17.270 Probably hold off. 01:17.660 --> 01:20.780 Johny Fernandez: So for someone that may think like that, that, 01:20.810 --> 01:22.850 they're looking at it. They're like, oh, man, like this may be 01:22.850 --> 01:26.300 the time to do it. What would be your advice? Obviously, you just 01:26.300 --> 01:29.900 said, don't do it now. But when should they jump in? If they if 01:29.900 --> 01:30.560 they want to? 01:30.630 --> 01:34.500 Sean Murray: Yeah, you know, I don't like to time markets. And 01:34.530 --> 01:38.370 I hate investing on like a speculation standpoint. But 01:38.370 --> 01:42.150 right now, it'd be the worst time ever, to buy bitcoin? I 01:42.150 --> 01:45.210 think the price is going to go down. I think the price is being 01:45.210 --> 01:49.950 artificially inflated right now through from a, from various 01:50.100 --> 01:55.590 sources that I won't get into. But I think it's an artificial 01:55.590 --> 01:59.340 market. And so in terms of when should you buy into Bitcoin? 01:59.370 --> 02:03.420 I've never really been a fan of Bitcoin, as far as buy it, for 02:03.420 --> 02:06.480 it to go up in value and make money. I've always looked at it 02:06.480 --> 02:10.890 from a utility standpoint. And so if you're looking at it from 02:10.890 --> 02:13.230 an investment standpoint, you probably want to wait until it's 02:13.230 --> 02:18.840 like $5,000 again, to think about it. I think Bitcoin has a 02:18.840 --> 02:22.710 place in the world. But if you're gonna buy it, right, when 02:22.710 --> 02:25.950 it's going up, like really quickly, that's the worst time 02:25.950 --> 02:30.600 to buy, buy at buy after that, buy in the crash period, not 02:30.600 --> 02:31.800 during the Bull Run period. 02:31.800 --> 02:31.930 Johny Fernandez: So let me ask you this. I know like last time 02:31.930 --> 02:33.010 that we talked about it, previous segment, we talked 02:33.010 --> 02:34.120 about, like these big conventions and people gathering 02:34.120 --> 02:35.740 and just like this obsession with it. Now obviously 02:36.820 --> 02:39.490 Coronavirus is in the middle of everything. Are people gathering 02:39.580 --> 02:48.790 like via have you heard of people like these gatherings via 02:48.790 --> 02:53.140 zoom? Or I guess, is there this pandemonium with it? Or is it 02:53.140 --> 02:56.230 simply just going up and people are kind of just observing it 02:56.230 --> 02:56.950 from afar? 02:58.430 --> 03:02.300 Sean Murray: I can tell you that during the 2017 like bull 03:02.300 --> 03:05.750 market, not only were people meeting up in person and talking 03:05.750 --> 03:08.930 about it, but they were doing it in groups online. Those groups 03:08.930 --> 03:13.460 online are still pretty much dormant. So even the online 03:13.460 --> 03:16.460 groups haven't really come back. You have a lot of people talking 03:16.460 --> 03:19.400 about crypto on Twitter, that seems to be like the number one 03:19.400 --> 03:25.490 place for crypto fans. Perhaps they're in like telegram. But 03:25.520 --> 03:29.210 you're not really seeing zoom calls about Bitcoin. I haven't 03:29.210 --> 03:32.090 been invited to any. I haven't heard of any. Maybe there's some 03:32.090 --> 03:37.280 happening out there. But in terms of has the in person 03:37.280 --> 03:40.550 experience of the crypto community gone digital? I don't 03:40.550 --> 03:43.010 think any more so than three years ago. 03:44.300 --> 03:47.060 Johny Fernandez: So in other Bitcoin news, let's talk about 03:47.090 --> 03:50.540 the news between PayPal and Square kind of walk us through 03:50.660 --> 03:51.770 what's going on with that. 03:52.680 --> 03:54.720 Sean Murray: Yeah, so there are good things happening in the 03:54.720 --> 03:55.860 Bitcoin world right now. It's not just this artificially 03:55.860 --> 03:56.850 inflated market caused by nothing, there are things 03:56.850 --> 04:00.000 happening that could warrant an increase in the price of 04:00.000 --> 04:08.310 Bitcoin. One is that PayPal recently activated the ability 04:08.310 --> 04:13.530 to hold crypto, hold Bitcoin. So before if you wanted to use 04:14.190 --> 04:17.160 Bitcoin, you had to use like the Cash App, you had to go into 04:17.160 --> 04:20.250 Coinbase you had to go into some shady exchange, you needed your 04:20.250 --> 04:23.340 own personal wallet app, and you don't know if you're gonna get 04:23.340 --> 04:25.650 hacked, right? You don't know if that if the wallet has like a 04:25.650 --> 04:29.790 backdoor built into it. But now you can actually hold Bitcoin in 04:29.790 --> 04:33.420 your regular paypal account. And I think that's a reason that 04:34.620 --> 04:37.500 Bitcoin could be going up in value. I don't think as much as 04:37.500 --> 04:39.210 it's gone up in value, I don't think it's all caused by that. 04:39.210 --> 04:41.700 But in terms of like, is there any excitement around Bitcoin? 04:41.940 --> 04:46.740 Could be could be that and then you have Square, which they own 04:46.740 --> 04:48.300 Cash App. Do you have Cash App? 04:48.330 --> 04:49.680 Johny Fernandez: I have Cash App, I do. Yeah. 04:49.950 --> 04:52.020 Sean Murray: Do you see a Bitcoin, like option, in there 04:52.020 --> 04:52.380 at all? 04:52.440 --> 04:53.850 Johny Fernandez: I haven't used it in a couple of weeks. 04:53.880 --> 04:55.680 Sean Murray: Okay, I've never I've never used it. 04:55.680 --> 04:57.850 Johny Fernandez: Okay, I have Cash App, I have PayPal then I 04:57.850 --> 05:01.870 have Venmo so I have all three, but I do know that for Bitcoin 05:01.870 --> 05:04.480 that the it came up for for PayPal. 05:04.930 --> 05:07.540 Sean Murray: It came up with PayPal. Yeah. So. So oh you've 05:07.540 --> 05:09.760 seen it on there? Yeah. You know, I actually haven't logged 05:09.760 --> 05:14.350 into my PayPal account since the news. But Square in particular, 05:14.500 --> 05:17.590 they actually reported that you know, Square. Yeah. Right owned 05:17.590 --> 05:21.910 by Jack Dorsey, owns Twitter. And they're a gigantic payment 05:21.910 --> 05:26.980 processor 50% of Square's profit comes from Bitcoin transactions 05:26.980 --> 05:27.340 now. 05:28.360 --> 05:30.160 Johny Fernandez: So people are pretty much using the Bitcoin, 05:30.190 --> 05:32.890 what they have for Bitcoin, and paying out. 05:32.890 --> 05:33.740 Sean Murray: its transaction fee is I think they're like charging 05:33.740 --> 05:40.400 you to buy it charging you to use it. And that's 50% of their 05:40.400 --> 05:43.400 profit now. They're not they're not making money off of it going 05:43.400 --> 05:47.270 up. Yeah. Well, in a way they are because they bought $50 05:47.270 --> 05:49.520 million worth of bitcoin recently. Did you hear about 05:49.520 --> 05:52.520 that? I did not hear about that. Square the company bought $50 05:52.520 --> 05:55.580 million worth of Bitcoin to put on their balance sheet. And from 05:55.580 --> 05:58.430 what I understand the value of those Bitcoin have recently got 05:58.430 --> 06:02.870 up to about $84 million. So they are making money on Bitcoin, the 06:02.870 --> 06:06.710 price or value of Bitcoin going up. But that's not a business. 06:06.740 --> 06:09.590 Yeah. Right. I think they were doing that to draw attention to 06:09.590 --> 06:13.010 Cash App. It's a publicity stunt. Why buy $50 million worth 06:13.010 --> 06:15.530 of Bitcoin? Because everyone talks about it. And it's like, 06:15.560 --> 06:16.910 oh, what does you know, what does Square have to do with 06:16.910 --> 06:19.610 Bitcoin? Or you can use it on the Cash App. And then it just. 06:19.850 --> 06:22.190 And then they did that 50% of their money is coming from 06:22.190 --> 06:24.440 Bitcoin transactions. So obviously, it's in their 06:24.440 --> 06:26.090 interest to do it from a marketing standpoint. 06:26.300 --> 06:29.570 Johny Fernandez: So obviously, Bitcoin, it's a hot topic. Let's 06:29.570 --> 06:32.690 talk about if have you used it in the past, personally, like, 06:32.690 --> 06:35.960 do you have it? And what's been your experience with it? I mean, 06:35.960 --> 06:39.500 it's something that is popular. So I know, I've had friends very 06:39.500 --> 06:42.560 close friends that they were going crazy in 2017, during the 06:42.560 --> 06:45.440 high of it, and they were just like, on their phone like 24/7 06:45.440 --> 06:49.340 just constantly checking to see and it was it's like the stock 06:49.340 --> 06:51.650 market, like they treated like it was like the stock market, 06:51.650 --> 06:55.160 like making sure everything was going up, and they got too 06:55.160 --> 06:56.690 excited. They're like we're gonna be rich. We're gonna be 06:56.690 --> 07:00.920 millionaires and like, you know, by the world. And then it 07:00.920 --> 07:02.420 crashed, and then it's like. 07:03.410 --> 07:04.370 Sean Murray: We're you one of those people? 07:04.370 --> 07:08.540 Johny Fernandez: I was not, I looked into, oh, maybe I was 07:08.570 --> 07:11.990 because I was like, you know, I didn't really understand it 07:12.020 --> 07:15.020 completely back then. Like what it meant, and I was like, you 07:15.020 --> 07:18.020 know what, like, this seems kind of sketchy. But a lot of my 07:18.020 --> 07:20.600 buddies swore by it. They were like, dead set on it. 07:20.750 --> 07:23.570 Sean Murray: Yeah. So. You know, the fundamentals of Bitcoin 07:23.570 --> 07:27.350 haven't changed. So if you're down, if you were really bullish 07:27.350 --> 07:30.860 about Bitcoin before, and you're down on it now, it's probably 07:30.860 --> 07:34.280 because you only cared about the price going up. And you probably 07:34.280 --> 07:36.800 didn't really truly appreciate the underlying utility of 07:36.800 --> 07:40.070 Bitcoin, which is the ability to move money without government 07:40.070 --> 07:43.370 interference. For me, that's the whole point of Bitcoin, you can 07:43.370 --> 07:45.740 send your money to anywhere in the world, and nobody can stop 07:45.740 --> 07:49.190 you. Right? You can take possession of your money, and no 07:49.190 --> 07:51.470 government can seize it, depending on how you store it, 07:51.500 --> 07:54.110 right? If you store it on like Coinbase, or you store it on 07:54.110 --> 07:58.070 PayPal, and the FBI wants that Bitcoin, they can probably get 07:58.070 --> 08:01.400 it. But if you store like on a USB, and no one knows what that 08:01.400 --> 08:05.870 USB is, or even better, you you actually turn the you take your 08:05.870 --> 08:07.820 private key and don't even have it digital, you just have an 08:07.820 --> 08:09.800 actual written out private key and no one knows where that 08:09.800 --> 08:12.770 piece of paper is. Then no one's going to take your Bitcoin from 08:12.770 --> 08:17.060 you. And so as far as whether or not I had Bitcoin, I have a 08:17.060 --> 08:22.460 little bit of Bitcoin. I have half of one Bitcoin. And this is 08:22.460 --> 08:25.040 a holdover from like, a long time ago, like you were 08:25.040 --> 08:27.680 mentioning, like the whole 2017 and checking the price every 08:27.680 --> 08:28.160 day. 08:28.400 --> 08:30.890 Johny Fernandez: It was serious. It was literally, like they were 08:30.890 --> 08:34.220 like, they would stop their car. Yeah. If something was to go 08:34.220 --> 08:35.210 down like it would. 08:35.960 --> 08:38.810 Sean Murray: Yeah, you know, if you're investing in something 08:38.810 --> 08:40.970 where you have to check it every five minutes. Yeah. It's 08:40.970 --> 08:44.480 destined to fail, it's gonna it's gonna blow up, you're gonna 08:44.480 --> 08:47.510 lose money on it eventually, right? If you don't sell, it's 08:47.510 --> 08:51.920 not gonna go up forever. I started getting bitcoins way 08:51.920 --> 08:55.430 before that, like 2014. That's not like the very, very, very 08:55.430 --> 08:58.130 beginning of Bitcoin. But that's way before most people had heard 08:58.130 --> 08:58.430 of it. 08:58.460 --> 08:59.480 Johny Fernandez: How'd you hear about it? 08:59.480 --> 09:01.595 Sean Murray: Probably because, you know, we publish things 09:01.652 --> 09:05.343 about alternative finance. And I think the concept came up a few 09:05.401 --> 09:08.861 times. And at first, I just wrote it off as a possible scam, 09:08.919 --> 09:12.264 to be honest with you, right? And then someone's like, no, 09:12.321 --> 09:15.781 check it out. Look how it works. And I was like, wow, that's 09:15.781 --> 09:15.839 So looking at that now, and looking at it, you know, from 09:15.839 --> 09:18.896 really, really, really interesting. Not because like, 09:18.953 --> 09:22.586 well, this could be worth a lot of money someday, but because I 09:22.644 --> 09:26.047 could actually have money and send it somewhere or bring it 09:26.104 --> 09:29.680 with me and that nobody could take it from it. Right, and that 09:29.738 --> 09:32.679 there was no centralized control. It was completely 09:32.736 --> 09:36.139 decentralized and was governed by map. It's a whole, it's a 09:36.197 --> 09:39.714 whole big thing. Yeah. But once I learned about it, I said oh 09:39.772 --> 09:43.232 this is pretty cool. And we actually had on our site, we had 09:43.290 --> 09:46.693 an advertiser paying us in Bitcoin. And we still I actually 09:46.750 --> 09:49.922 have on our invoices to this day, we have a credit card 09:49.980 --> 09:53.498 option, an ACH payment option. We have a Bitcoin option. It's 09:53.555 --> 09:57.073 been there honestly, since 2014, and only one person has ever 09:57.131 --> 10:00.706 done it, and they haven't done it since, like 2015. But we had 10:00.706 --> 10:00.764 back then, and knowing what you know, now knowing everything 10:00.764 --> 10:04.109 somebody paying us in Bitcoin. And the thing was, who paid 10:04.109 --> 10:04.820 that it went through, and then seeing this go up, do you think 10:04.820 --> 10:07.800 Bitcoin and I would immediately convert it into cash. Okay. And 10:07.857 --> 10:11.029 people would say, well that means you didn't believe in 10:11.087 --> 10:14.432 Bitcoin. No, I did believe in Bitcoin. I didn't believe in 10:14.489 --> 10:18.065 holding it just so it would go up, I believe in the utility of 10:18.123 --> 10:21.467 Bitcoin. But Bitcoin is not useful if no one else is using 10:21.525 --> 10:25.043 Bitcoin. So if I hold a lot of Bitcoin, I can't use it to pay 10:25.101 --> 10:28.676 my vendors, then it doesn't do me any good. Yeah. So you know, 10:28.734 --> 10:31.848 the company obviously had expenses, they couldn't just 10:31.906 --> 10:35.481 mass Bitcoin. Yeah. Especially when I'm not holding it for the 10:35.539 --> 10:39.172 purpose of it going up. Yeah. So I would take the Bitcoin and I 10:39.230 --> 10:42.575 would immediately sell it. And it wasn't until 2017 that I 10:42.575 --> 10:42.632 that would ever be a possibility, again, to have that 10:42.632 --> 10:46.323 started to think about how many bitcoins I had. Yeah. Back then. 10:46.381 --> 10:49.553 And end of 2017, the price of Bitcoin went up to almost 10:49.610 --> 10:52.609 $20,000 per Bitcoin. And I started looking at my old 10:52.667 --> 10:56.358 transactions from back in 2015, how much was a Bitcoin back then 10:56.415 --> 10:59.876 it was like 300 bucks. For one for one, right? I was selling 10:59.933 --> 11:03.451 Bitcoins for 300 hours. And so I started counting up how many 11:03.509 --> 11:07.084 Bitcoins that I have total. Now, I didn't sell them all off at 11:07.142 --> 11:10.372 once. So selling them all piecemeal, as they were coming 11:10.429 --> 11:14.120 in. Yeah. Well, let's say never saw them, I just hold on to them 11:14.178 --> 11:17.696 thats only $300 in Bitcoin, you know, I didn't really need to 11:17.753 --> 11:21.329 sell it. Yeah. I could have just held on to them. And if I had 11:21.386 --> 11:24.962 held on to all those bitcoins and never sold them, at the peak 11:25.020 --> 11:27.500 of 2017, I would have had $1 million worth. 11:45.620 --> 11:49.880 type of money in Bitcoin? So I mean. But it's tricky, because 11:49.880 --> 11:51.890 it's everything's going up and down, and, and. 11:51.890 --> 11:55.110 Is it possible for me to have a million dollars worth of Bitcoin 11:55.140 --> 11:58.920 again? Or just. Just in general? So I mean, the price is back up 11:58.920 --> 12:03.570 to $18,000. So we're close to the all time high, right? But 12:03.570 --> 12:05.820 the problem is, it's in the market that nobody's talking 12:05.820 --> 12:10.980 about it. So who's making them price go up? It's not everyone 12:10.980 --> 12:14.010 we know. Yeah. It seemed like it was last time because everyone 12:14.010 --> 12:17.490 we knew was getting into it. Yeah. I look at it like this, 12:17.490 --> 12:22.980 right? There's only 21 million Bitcoin ever, there's a cap on 12:22.980 --> 12:26.940 the amount of Bitcoin that there are. And there's actually less 12:26.940 --> 12:29.820 than that. Because if you lost your private key that Bitcoin 12:29.820 --> 12:33.450 can never be used ever again. Okay. So think about it, there 12:33.450 --> 12:37.620 were only $21 million in the entire world. And you had one of 12:37.620 --> 12:42.210 them. You'd be worth way more than a millionaire. Yeah. Right. 12:42.750 --> 12:47.610 So in terms of, could it get up? Could you become a millionaire 12:47.640 --> 12:53.280 by holding Bitcoin? I think, very possible. I think that's a 12:53.280 --> 12:56.580 terrible way to look at Bitcoin. Yeah. But I think you could I 12:56.580 --> 13:01.770 think if, and this is why some people hold on to Bitcoin that 13:01.770 --> 13:06.060 think about what happens if the US dollar collapses? What are 13:06.060 --> 13:09.030 you gonna do? It's the reserve currency of the world. It could 13:09.030 --> 13:11.820 be a period of time, could be a freak event, could be a 13:11.820 --> 13:14.580 pandemic, twice as twice, three times as deadly as the one we 13:14.580 --> 13:17.190 have now. And all of a sudden, people are like, they can't get 13:17.190 --> 13:20.370 into Euros easily. And then people are like wait, the Euro 13:20.370 --> 13:22.950 is also tied to the dollar. So all the all the currencies are 13:22.950 --> 13:26.610 kind of collapsing at once, right? All of a sudden, you have 13:26.640 --> 13:29.370 Bitcoin, which has a fixed supply, nobody can inflate, 13:29.370 --> 13:32.340 nobody can print more of it. Yeah. And temporarily becomes a 13:32.340 --> 13:35.160 currency that people use until everything gets under control. 13:35.520 --> 13:37.950 And there's only 21 million in the world one bitcoin could be 13:37.950 --> 13:42.150 worth the equivalent of like $50 million or something. You could 13:42.150 --> 13:45.870 be all of a sudden extremely, extremely wealthy, just if you 13:45.870 --> 13:50.400 have one. Just one. So if you're going to invest in Bitcoin, look 13:50.400 --> 13:53.550 at it from like a moonshot perspective, take money you 13:53.550 --> 13:57.570 don't care about, hold on to it, put it on the side. And one day 13:57.570 --> 13:59.850 the whole world collapses you can be one of the richest people 13:59.850 --> 14:00.240 on earth. 14:00.990 --> 14:04.170 Johny Fernandez: That's wild. So speaking about that, let's let's 14:04.170 --> 14:07.710 jump into the Bitcoin Center. I know we we did a couple pieces 14:07.710 --> 14:10.560 with them. So walk me through. I mean, that experience and just 14:10.560 --> 14:11.640 like the center itself. 14:11.660 --> 14:15.200 Sean Murray: Yeah. So um, I first went to the Bitcoin 14:15.200 --> 14:21.740 Center, the original one on Broad Street back in 2014. And 14:22.160 --> 14:27.590 it was kind of like, a dark, mysterious place with a lot of 14:27.590 --> 14:30.320 strange people. Okay. Into Bitcoin for a lot of different 14:30.320 --> 14:34.370 reasons. Now you have to remember this is 2014. Early 14:34.370 --> 14:37.220 days. Okay. So the only people who are like super passionate 14:37.220 --> 14:39.740 about it are probably weird people consider myself weird. 14:39.740 --> 14:47.030 That's why I was into it. And it had its own character and you 14:47.030 --> 14:50.360 could go there, they usually had open bars, and you had to. At 14:50.360 --> 14:52.490 the center? At the center and you didn't pay anything to get 14:52.490 --> 14:57.410 in. Okay. You just went in, it was basically like, very, like a 14:57.440 --> 15:00.110 weird anonymous type setting. Okay. Like you had to fill got 15:00.110 --> 15:02.180 your name on a sheet of paper, but a lot of people would put a 15:02.180 --> 15:05.300 fake name, open bar. And then you'd have to sit through a 15:05.300 --> 15:07.790 presentation. And then they would actually do trading, 15:07.820 --> 15:10.550 bitcoin trading. And so you take people who had Bitcoin, and you 15:10.550 --> 15:13.850 take people who have cash, for whatever reason, I'm not going 15:13.850 --> 15:16.760 to go into why they wanted to do the deal. And they didn't want 15:16.760 --> 15:20.180 to do it online. But some people wanted Bitcoin transferred to 15:20.180 --> 15:23.390 them directly, where there was no trail of it through like an 15:23.390 --> 15:25.910 exchange. And so you had people that it was selling Bitcoin to 15:25.910 --> 15:28.430 other people in person, all happening in this room, there 15:28.430 --> 15:30.800 was like a trading bell. You had all these people like 15:30.800 --> 15:35.270 negotiating prices, it was crazy. That's wild. So that was 15:35.270 --> 15:38.480 the Bitcoin Center back. Now, it's called the Blockchain 15:38.510 --> 15:42.560 Center. And it's actually on the Upper West Side. And we just had 15:42.590 --> 15:46.010 a another reporter, Kevin Travers go up there. And he 15:46.010 --> 15:47.840 interviewed a few people, we actually interviewed the 15:47.840 --> 15:54.200 director, Adam Gensberg, and it's not what it was, you know, 15:54.200 --> 15:56.810 from back in the day, you know, Bitcoin is a lot more 15:56.810 --> 16:01.130 mainstream. But there still is a Bitcoin Center or a blockchain 16:01.130 --> 16:01.450 Johny Fernandez: That's interesting. It sounds like it 16:01.450 --> 16:01.880 center now. 16:05.770 --> 16:09.790 was an experience back then, for sure. But it's like you said, 16:09.790 --> 16:13.240 its own world at that point, like at this point, like, you 16:13.240 --> 16:18.700 know, it's tough to see that. So I know we talked about it acorn 16:18.700 --> 16:23.650 Robinhood. Let's talk a little bit about like, those that way 16:23.650 --> 16:28.420 of investing and making money versus Bitcoin itself? Because I 16:28.420 --> 16:30.670 know that's something that people are always asking like, 16:30.700 --> 16:32.440 oh, like, what do you think about like, their opinions on 16:32.440 --> 16:35.560 like acorns versus Robin Hood versus Bitcoin, then there's so 16:35.560 --> 16:38.980 many alternative ways to kind of invest now. So. 16:39.070 --> 16:40.660 Sean Murray: Yeah, well, you know, what's interesting about 16:40.690 --> 16:45.880 Robin Hood is that it's just, it's really just front facing 16:45.880 --> 16:51.850 software for traditional securities trading. Right? Yeah. 16:51.850 --> 16:56.110 Just buy stocks. Yeah. Options. So it's not like a new way to 16:56.110 --> 17:01.900 invest. It's more of a more Gen Z, slash younger, millennial 17:01.960 --> 17:09.310 friendly way of investing. It's an app on your phone. Honestly, 17:09.310 --> 17:13.810 it feels a little bit like the Bitcoin crowd. Who were really 17:13.810 --> 17:14.320 into it. 17:14.350 --> 17:15.370 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, I could see that. 17:15.400 --> 17:20.230 Sean Murray: So there was like a, there was always a thing. 17:20.500 --> 17:22.540 Yeah. A certain point in time, but everyone kind of rallies 17:22.540 --> 17:26.890 around. And before it was Bitcoin. There was a time when 17:26.890 --> 17:30.370 it was like online poker. Okay. Everyone was obsessed with 17:30.370 --> 17:35.320 online poker. Right? And online gambling was the future. And 17:36.790 --> 17:37.270 seriously. 17:37.270 --> 17:39.910 Johny Fernandez: It's funny cause you say you hear you hear 17:39.910 --> 17:41.920 that? Every 10 years, like this is the future. 17:41.920 --> 17:44.740 Sean Murray: And ou have of these young 20 Somethings and 17:44.740 --> 17:46.570 like this, is that yeah. And they're like, Oh, this is 17:46.570 --> 17:48.070 totally you know, this is where you're gonna make all your 17:48.070 --> 17:50.170 money. This is the future. And it was I was honestly with 17:50.200 --> 17:53.620 online poker for a while. And then there was something in 17:53.620 --> 17:55.780 between, but I wasn't paying attention. And then also it was 17:55.810 --> 17:59.170 it was crypto. Yeah. Right. That yeah. And everyone's into 17:59.170 --> 18:02.290 crypto. Yeah. And all the different coins and it's the 18:02.290 --> 18:05.410 future. And that's how you get rich. And then all of a sudden, 18:05.410 --> 18:09.460 people got people got burned on crypto, prices went down, the 18:09.460 --> 18:15.190 rally ended. And I feel like this whole securities trading 18:15.670 --> 18:20.650 very old fashioned thing, but made fresh through apps. Yeah. 18:20.680 --> 18:24.280 Is kind of the new glue. Yeah. I feel like the same type of 18:24.280 --> 18:28.150 crypto enthusiasm is kind of being adopted by like the Robin 18:28.150 --> 18:32.080 Hood crowd. I could see that. I personally have never used Robin 18:32.080 --> 18:34.810 Hood. I don't I don't trade in any individual stocks of 18:34.810 --> 18:39.070 securities. Except for, you know, mutual funds. Yeah. But 18:39.880 --> 18:43.270 you know, a lot of people are using it, for sure. You were 18:43.270 --> 18:46.000 mentioning something about acorn early. Yeah, I use acorn. How 18:46.000 --> 18:46.780 does that even work? 18:47.440 --> 18:49.390 Johny Fernandez: So I mean, pretty much they hold on to 18:49.390 --> 18:52.060 money, they let you link it to your debit card, or they'll take 18:52.060 --> 18:54.130 out money from your bank account. And then from there, 18:54.490 --> 18:57.850 you have money saved to grow your acorn grow your tree, 18:58.300 --> 19:02.290 because you start with like $1, $2, $5. And now you know, you 19:02.290 --> 19:04.930 get into like the hundreds and then the 1000s. And pretty much 19:04.930 --> 19:09.100 use that money and invest from within what the acorn had like 19:09.100 --> 19:12.010 the options and it's pretty safe. I mean, for the most part, 19:12.040 --> 19:16.990 and you're right, it is more like a Gen Z millennial thing, 19:16.990 --> 19:19.570 because I know a lot of my friends, they use it. And they 19:19.570 --> 19:21.820 were the ones that told me about it. I was like, oh, like that's, 19:21.970 --> 19:23.740 that's interesting. And it's easy. Because everything's on 19:23.740 --> 19:26.170 your phone at this point, like you do everything on your phone, 19:26.320 --> 19:29.920 you log in, you log on, and you can do everything and they help 19:29.920 --> 19:33.490 you take care of most the, all the hard things like looking for 19:33.490 --> 19:37.000 like, you know what companies to invest in, and then like making 19:37.000 --> 19:38.740 sure they give you your money and things like that. 19:38.740 --> 19:41.320 Sean Murray: So is it more of a saving, from your perspective, a 19:41.320 --> 19:43.540 savings app or an investing app? 19:43.840 --> 19:45.640 Johny Fernandez: It's both because you can save money like 19:45.640 --> 19:48.730 I haven't really done much investing, because I'm like, 19:48.730 --> 19:51.040 alright, like I still want to see how much money I can 19:51.040 --> 19:54.100 actually get on there. But then they also give you the options 19:54.100 --> 19:57.280 to invest from within, you know, the acorns app. 19:57.790 --> 19:59.890 Sean Murray: Okay. Are you investing into like individuals 19:59.890 --> 20:00.700 stocks on there? 20:01.210 --> 20:03.340 Johny Fernandez: Not like individual stocks or like just 20:03.340 --> 20:06.280 like new like let's say like Nike comes out with like a new 20:06.700 --> 20:09.010 product or whatever like they'll kind of give you a heads up and 20:09.010 --> 20:12.040 then like they'll. They give you a heads up? Yeah, well. Inside 20:12.040 --> 20:20.470 your trading app? I gotta get into this. For $5 I mean, you 20:20.500 --> 20:23.230 can have your little bank account and they'll give you a 20:23.230 --> 20:25.390 heads up on stuff so it's. 20:25.420 --> 20:28.060 Sean Murray: I'm gonna get acorn now. Yeah. I'm sold, they even 20:28.120 --> 20:32.140 tell you the news before comes out. And you can trade on the 20:32.140 --> 20:32.920 insider info. 20:33.670 --> 20:35.680 Johny Fernandez: And then you become a millionaire that way. 20:36.400 --> 20:44.260 Forget big forget Bitcoin cryptocurrency. So let's talk 20:44.260 --> 20:46.900 about the new administration. I mean, that's big news last year, 20:46.930 --> 20:50.890 have been hectic. And obviously for the industry, for Bitcoin 20:50.890 --> 20:53.440 for everything like the administration President like 20:53.440 --> 20:57.040 Biden and Kamala Harris. So what exactly do you think it means 20:57.040 --> 21:01.300 for the industry in general? And, you know, for just our 21:01.300 --> 21:03.880 industry, the news, what's going on within our industry? 21:04.020 --> 21:07.410 Sean Murray: Yeah. It's funny that you mentioned Harris, when 21:07.410 --> 21:10.590 you mentioned Biden. Yeah. Because they feel when a new 21:10.590 --> 21:14.790 president is coming in. People forget about the VP. But it 21:14.790 --> 21:18.990 seems to be this kind of like subconscious understanding. 21:19.080 --> 21:24.240 Yeah. That she may need to step in. Yeah. This is truly a Biden. 21:24.240 --> 21:27.960 Harris. Yeah. Administration, whereas pence to Trump, Pence 21:27.960 --> 21:32.190 was a guy who would come out and give a speech. Every now and 21:32.190 --> 21:35.430 than, we didn't look at it as a Trump Pence, administration. 21:35.430 --> 21:38.520 Atleast i didn't I. Yeah. It was it was the Trump administration. 21:38.760 --> 21:41.340 Johny Fernandez: And even if we look back during like Obama, and 21:41.790 --> 21:46.500 during Biden, like it was an Obama Biden, it was Obama cause. 21:46.500 --> 21:49.390 Yeah. Did you yeah was it, or you know what Biden play a huge 21:49.390 --> 21:51.970 role in that administration? No. No, I don't think so. 21:53.170 --> 21:55.270 He was a guy that came out gave his speech, did his part of the 21:55.270 --> 21:57.400 job. And then he'd go home but. 21:57.640 --> 22:00.820 Sean Murray: Yeah, so you know, you kind of you kind of said it 22:01.000 --> 22:03.160 in a way that everyone is talking about not to minimize 22:03.160 --> 22:08.620 the position of VP. People are kind of operating under the 22:08.620 --> 22:13.150 assumption that she could play an increased role, you know, 22:13.750 --> 22:17.440 maybe even a majority role at some point. But as far as what 22:17.440 --> 22:24.430 does it mean, policy wise? People say, well, it's too early 22:24.430 --> 22:27.910 to call because the Georgia Senate race hasn't been decided. 22:27.940 --> 22:32.920 And I think that matters from a legislative standpoint, because 22:32.920 --> 22:35.680 if the Republicans continue to control the Senate, then you run 22:35.680 --> 22:39.280 into a situation where they can't pass legislation. 22:39.400 --> 22:42.760 Democrats can't pass legislation that they really really want. 22:42.790 --> 22:45.520 Yeah. Republicans really, really don't want right. Yeah. Well, 22:45.520 --> 22:51.730 there's more to it than than just legislation. There's also 22:51.730 --> 22:55.780 regulation, right, you don't need to pass a new a new law to 22:55.780 --> 22:59.800 enforce existing laws. And so that's the that's the real thing 22:59.800 --> 23:05.620 to look at here is what did the new administration mean, from a 23:05.620 --> 23:10.540 regulatory standpoint? And you say, well, Biden, you know, he's 23:10.570 --> 23:13.720 maybe like, a, he's more of a moderate or something. Right? 23:13.720 --> 23:17.680 Yeah. It really doesn't matter what Biden the person stands 23:17.710 --> 23:21.910 for. Right. It's the people around him. Right. It's 23:21.930 --> 23:22.620 Johny Fernandez: His team. 23:22.620 --> 23:25.374 Sean Murray: His whole team and it reaches nationwide. Yeah. 23:25.446 --> 23:29.538 It's who he appoints. And, you know, sometimes the to his 23:29.610 --> 23:33.631 advisors suggest he appoint he doesn't know every single 23:33.703 --> 23:38.082 person, right. And so you kind of get kind of just get a tone 23:38.154 --> 23:42.319 set at the top. That's usually how it works, atleast in my 23:42.390 --> 23:46.770 opinion. I'm not a, you know, political commentator, but what 23:46.842 --> 23:50.863 I think it means I think we'll see increased enforcement 23:50.934 --> 23:55.314 activity from agencies like the CFPB, the FTC, things of that 23:55.386 --> 23:59.478 nature. Yeah. I think they'll be more active in enforcing 23:59.550 --> 24:03.068 existing laws, or even be more proactive in their 24:03.140 --> 24:07.735 interpretation of what they can do. Yeah. So that's, that's what 24:07.807 --> 24:12.043 I think it means I think that we will need to be looking at 24:12.115 --> 24:15.490 increased enforcement activity on existing law. 24:16.380 --> 24:19.380 Johny Fernandez: So obviously, another thing that is also 24:19.380 --> 24:25.050 changing is how we've all done life with Coronavirus. So I know 24:25.050 --> 24:27.180 there's been talks and I've had people tell me like, oh, my 24:27.180 --> 24:29.670 gosh, you know, the shutdown is coming down and another shutdown 24:29.670 --> 24:32.850 and obviously, even walking around New York City, there's 24:32.850 --> 24:35.880 this vibe that reminds people of like early March, where it's 24:35.880 --> 24:38.610 just kind of like things are starting to feel different 24:38.610 --> 24:42.090 versus the summer. So let's talk about another shutdown with if 24:42.120 --> 24:45.420 that happens, like how it will impact the industry. 24:45.480 --> 24:49.110 Sean Murray: Yeah, so my initial impression was that it was going 24:49.110 --> 24:53.520 to be very, very, very bad economically to have shutdowns 24:53.850 --> 24:57.450 on the scale that we did last time, because we didn't really 24:58.170 --> 25:03.390 recover from that. Yeah. The stock market is up. Yeah. 25:03.600 --> 25:08.070 Unemployment has gone down. But I don't think that a lot of the 25:08.070 --> 25:11.340 rent payments and the mortgage payments have really been caught 25:11.340 --> 25:14.130 up. Yeah. I think people were still behind. Yeah, absolutely. 25:14.190 --> 25:16.620 I think people were still in that that situation of how do we 25:16.620 --> 25:20.190 work out what happened in the past? Right? Do we go on a 25:20.190 --> 25:25.740 payment plan? If they're going to be forgiven? And then to go 25:25.740 --> 25:28.350 into another shutdown, we're just gonna pile on on top of the 25:28.350 --> 25:32.820 previous problem. I think that's a real big issue. So I was 25:32.850 --> 25:35.700 talking to some people within the alternative finance 25:35.700 --> 25:38.610 industry, like, hey, are you worried about shutdowns? Again, 25:38.670 --> 25:42.900 because it devastated the industry before. Yeah. And the 25:42.900 --> 25:48.030 feedback I got was not only are they more prepared to deal with 25:48.030 --> 25:53.010 that, if that happens, what they feel from the handful handful 25:53.010 --> 25:56.640 people I've spoken to, that the business owners are more 25:56.640 --> 26:00.930 prepared, right? Before you had businesses that had no takeout 26:01.290 --> 26:05.130 at all. Till the takeout route. Yeah. Right. But it took a while 26:05.130 --> 26:07.080 to get there. Yep. And and at first, they were like, no, we'll 26:07.080 --> 26:09.630 just wait the two weeks, right. And then two weeks became 26:09.630 --> 26:12.240 months, and they're like we got to do takeout. But they're not 26:12.270 --> 26:14.610 they don't even have a website. Yeah. Or they don't have one 26:14.610 --> 26:18.510 that you can use to order yet, right. And everyone's kind of 26:18.510 --> 26:22.020 gotten that part figured out. And doesn't mean that businesses 26:22.020 --> 26:26.010 won't fail. But the company that finance them feel a little bit 26:26.010 --> 26:29.730 more confident in how business owners will be able to react, if 26:29.730 --> 26:33.090 there is another shutdown, they're kind of hoping that it 26:33.090 --> 26:36.960 won't happen at the scale that it did before. But they're 26:36.960 --> 26:41.490 confident that business owners are more adequately prepared to 26:41.490 --> 26:44.100 do what they have to do this time around. Last time around, 26:44.580 --> 26:46.080 just nobody knew what was happening. 26:46.080 --> 26:48.700 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. No. Well, let me ask you this. Do you 26:48.700 --> 26:51.670 think that obviously, what happened last time, I mean, 26:51.700 --> 26:54.460 we're still going through parts of it, because it's still not 26:54.460 --> 26:58.420 fully over. But like, if there's certain restrictions that come 26:58.540 --> 27:02.530 along, and that it's not a total shutdown. But, you know, it kind 27:02.530 --> 27:06.220 of feels like one. Do you think that you said business owners 27:06.220 --> 27:09.220 are prepared, but do you think that they prepared to live and 27:09.220 --> 27:12.850 run business like this for like, another year or another two 27:12.850 --> 27:15.400 years? Like, because at this point, there's no end date. 27:15.420 --> 27:17.820 Sean Murray: Yeah, I don't know. I don't, no. So I don't think 27:17.820 --> 27:21.780 that long, I think, no way, right? Yeah. I think I was 27:21.780 --> 27:24.210 really talking about a month or two. Yeah. To be honest with 27:24.210 --> 27:28.050 you. If you're an E commerce business. Yeah. Yeah, sure. 27:28.080 --> 27:29.820 Yeah. You can go a year or two. 27:30.000 --> 27:31.440 Johny Fernandez: Well, let's talk about that. Like, 27:31.440 --> 27:36.630 obviously, with the E commerce and the threat that's going on 27:36.630 --> 27:40.440 between, in the Merchant Cash Advance and the business lending 27:40.440 --> 27:43.080 industry. So let's like kind of segue into that. 27:43.080 --> 27:47.470 Sean Murray: Yeah. Yeah. So if you're in E commerce, or you 27:47.470 --> 27:51.160 were in E commerce, man, you're in a good spot, right? Because 27:51.160 --> 27:55.690 the whole world went digital. My ninety year old grandma was 27:55.690 --> 27:59.590 talking about ordering her groceries online. Right. These 27:59.590 --> 28:05.170 are things that would never happened. Yeah. And so if you 28:05.170 --> 28:08.290 weren't digital, and you're not digital now, from an E commerce 28:08.290 --> 28:12.310 standpoint, it's very dangerous. Because even though I think 28:12.310 --> 28:15.220 there's some conventional wisdom that people are going to want to 28:15.220 --> 28:20.530 go back to doing everything in person again. Yeah, right. Some 28:20.530 --> 28:25.120 people will continue to use the digital technique, the digital 28:25.120 --> 28:28.390 experience in their everyday life. Yeah. Someone who never 28:28.390 --> 28:32.140 did online grocery shopping, is going to start is going to 28:32.140 --> 28:35.740 continue to use it. Yeah. Then they, then they, if they didn't 28:35.740 --> 28:42.610 before, right? And how that's translated into success for 28:42.610 --> 28:47.800 alternative finance, if your company that's financed 28:47.830 --> 28:51.130 ecommerce businesses, that's been really good for you. Yeah. 28:51.190 --> 28:55.750 Right. The stock market is up. And people are like, why 28:55.750 --> 28:59.320 everything's terrible, right. But some of these really big 28:59.320 --> 29:02.170 companies are doing excellent right now, like Amazon's doing 29:02.170 --> 29:05.950 great. You have Shopify, it's doing really, really good. And 29:05.950 --> 29:10.030 guess what, Shopify also makes loans, to the businesses that 29:10.030 --> 29:13.570 are on their platform. And they are quickly shifting up the 29:13.570 --> 29:17.290 ranks to be to being one of the largest business lenders in the 29:17.290 --> 29:21.460 country. In fact, the largest non bank business lender right 29:21.460 --> 29:23.740 now is PayPal. Yeah. 29:25.420 --> 29:28.510 Johny Fernandez: Which is wild, because you don't you wouldn't 29:28.510 --> 29:31.630 think necessarily that they would have those resources 29:31.630 --> 29:34.480 because I think when people think PayPal, or just like think 29:34.480 --> 29:37.600 any of those, it's just like, oh, like a transactional? 29:38.170 --> 29:40.990 Sean Murray: I looked at a list from like, 10 years ago, who the 29:40.990 --> 29:46.330 top non bank, alternative funders were right. And people 29:46.330 --> 29:48.130 were like, well, one day these companies are gonna be bigger 29:48.130 --> 29:56.830 than Chase, in lending volume. Instead, they got usurped by a 29:56.830 --> 30:01.240 new breed of alternative finance company. And in some cases, 30:02.500 --> 30:05.050 companies that have been around for a long time that were able 30:05.050 --> 30:09.010 to add another product to their, to their business like PayPal 30:09.010 --> 30:11.950 was a payments company, PayPal's old now PayPal is more than 20 30:11.950 --> 30:14.740 years old, right? But they could just be like, hey, we're gonna 30:14.740 --> 30:18.370 do loans now. Yeah. Everyone's got PayPal. Yeah. All of sudden 30:18.370 --> 30:20.020 everyone can get a loan from PayPal. Well, you have to be 30:20.020 --> 30:20.590 eligible. 30:20.620 --> 30:23.710 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. But you can still, isn't it easier to go 30:23.710 --> 30:26.140 through them than going through a bank? For the most part? 30:26.170 --> 30:27.670 Sean Murray: Yeah, it's definitely easier. I don't know 30:27.670 --> 30:30.550 if it'll be less expensive. It'll be, it's definitely 30:30.550 --> 30:33.580 easier. And same with like, you know, companies like Shopify 30:33.580 --> 30:36.310 too, if you're already using Shopify, and you just had to 30:36.310 --> 30:41.260 click the Shopify capital button to get money. Yeah. It's a huge 30:41.260 --> 30:44.710 advantage. Yeah. Why are they going to call a broker who's 30:44.710 --> 30:46.600 going to connect them with a funder who's going to ask for 30:46.600 --> 30:49.450 paperwork, because they don't know anything about you. The E 30:49.450 --> 30:51.940 commerce company knows your entire business, you are their 30:51.940 --> 30:55.600 business, right? All you have to do is hit hit the button, 30:55.630 --> 30:57.130 they'll know right away if you're good or not. 30:58.330 --> 31:00.070 Johny Fernandez: So who's the biggest funder right now? 31:00.630 --> 31:04.230 Sean Murray: So it's PayPal, right? And Square, though, is 31:04.230 --> 31:09.270 coming up there too. And so it's interesting. I was trying to 31:09.270 --> 31:12.510 think I was trying to find like an analogy with. I don't know if 31:12.510 --> 31:16.830 I came up with a perfect one. But Square is kind of what every 31:17.610 --> 31:23.760 sort of like Merchant Cash Advance Sales Rep wanted to be 31:23.820 --> 31:28.110 10 years ago. Okay. Square came in, they dominated the payments, 31:28.230 --> 31:30.870 business, right. And merchant cash advances used to be tied 31:30.870 --> 31:33.810 into payments. And so if you wanted to have a big MCA 31:33.810 --> 31:37.770 portfolio, you had to have a lot of merchant service accounts 31:37.770 --> 31:42.750 too, so Square comes in, they dominate that. And they dominate 31:42.750 --> 31:47.280 the financing industry too. And then what do they do they buy 31:47.310 --> 31:51.330 $50 million worth of Bitcoin on top of it, right? That's, that 31:51.330 --> 31:54.030 was kind of the dream. Yeah. You come in, you dominate payments, 31:54.030 --> 31:56.700 you dominate financing, and then you throw away $50 million into 31:56.700 --> 31:59.730 Bitcoin and sit back and watch the stock go up. And you know, 31:59.730 --> 32:01.260 that's, that's, that's life. 32:01.300 --> 32:04.780 Johny Fernandez: That's the end of it. Which is wild, I mean, 32:05.260 --> 32:07.360 but yeah, I mean, they definitely dominated and now 32:07.360 --> 32:11.110 that I feel like they're always someone to like, keep your eye 32:11.110 --> 32:13.990 on because they'll pull out something completely new out of 32:13.990 --> 32:16.960 the blue. And you're like, oh, wow, like, these guys are on it. 32:16.990 --> 32:21.910 For sure. Yeah. And it's always I mean, at this point, the world 32:21.910 --> 32:26.470 has changed after Coronavirus. And then they're not going 32:26.470 --> 32:28.450 anywhere. Like everything's done online. Everything's done 32:28.450 --> 32:31.900 through your phone. While I think human interaction, 32:32.050 --> 32:35.470 everyone desires it now more than you know, before, but like 32:35.470 --> 32:37.750 you said, I definitely do agree with the fact that like, people 32:37.750 --> 32:40.210 are going to incorporate like, when we go back to like, normal 32:40.210 --> 32:43.540 life, whatever that looks like, people will incorporate these 32:43.540 --> 32:47.980 things, these technological advances in our life, and it's 32:47.980 --> 32:51.610 just part of life now, like. Yeah. Ordering groceries and not 32:51.610 --> 32:52.450 going to the store. 32:52.480 --> 32:54.820 Sean Murray: Yeah. You know, one thing I don't think will 32:54.820 --> 32:58.360 continue to be a really big part of our lives is Zoom. 32:58.450 --> 33:00.190 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, absolutely. People are zoomed 33:00.190 --> 33:01.120 out. We've talked about it. 33:01.120 --> 33:03.640 Sean Murray: Yeah. I mean, but now now, compared to what when 33:03.640 --> 33:06.700 we were talking about it a few months ago. Yeah. People are 33:06.700 --> 33:08.350 like, repulsed. 33:08.350 --> 33:10.690 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. Well, I think it'd be interesting to 33:10.690 --> 33:14.800 talk about this now. Like, obviously, we've had, we always 33:14.800 --> 33:20.230 do events here at deBanked. But I guess, what have you seen in 33:20.230 --> 33:23.890 regards to the desire that people want to go back to in 33:23.890 --> 33:26.530 person events versus doing something like a Zoom event, 33:26.530 --> 33:28.810 which a lot of people, a lot of companies and organizations and 33:28.810 --> 33:32.110 organizations had to do, because there was no other option, and 33:32.110 --> 33:34.240 they had an event, you know, planned out. 33:35.050 --> 33:36.970 Sean Murray: My personal opinion is that the virtual event 33:36.970 --> 33:45.100 concept is done. People want to do things in person. And I have 33:45.100 --> 33:47.650 constant conversations with people all over the country. 33:47.650 --> 33:51.730 Right? We live in New York. Yeah. So we live in like, you 33:51.730 --> 33:55.060 could call it the ground zero of of a pandemic. Yeah. Because 33:55.060 --> 33:57.910 we're close together with everybody. But in other states, 33:57.940 --> 34:00.430 they don't they're not operating like we are. Yeah. There are 34:00.430 --> 34:02.980 states where you don't have to wear a mask, and nobody does. 34:03.250 --> 34:06.880 And nobody thinks about it. Yeah. Right. And these are 34:06.910 --> 34:10.630 potential people who might want to come to our events. And so 34:10.930 --> 34:13.960 when I tell them, you know, it's not a good time to have one 34:13.960 --> 34:18.550 right now. It's hard for them to just understand. Yeah. But at 34:18.550 --> 34:25.360 the same time, I noticed that there are those who express that 34:25.360 --> 34:32.230 they are not afraid of the virus, who actually are. They 34:32.740 --> 34:36.340 talk a big game about freedom. This is a whole other topic, 34:36.340 --> 34:39.400 right? Yeah. And I totally believe in the whole freedom, I 34:39.400 --> 34:43.180 believe in all the freedom aspect of it, right. But when it 34:43.180 --> 34:46.900 comes to okay, so will you come to a mass gathering right now? 34:48.010 --> 34:52.390 They're like, well, not me. Maybe someone else. Yeah. I'll 34:52.390 --> 34:56.830 watch it remotely. Yeah. You know, so they they act as if 34:56.830 --> 35:00.520 they want to go to one this very second. Yeah. But they're like, 35:00.520 --> 35:07.360 well, not actually. Yeah. And so it's confusing. Yeah. In terms 35:07.360 --> 35:10.870 of when you want to put events together, that's all. That's all 35:10.870 --> 35:12.640 I was really trying to get at. I wasn't trying to get to any 35:12.640 --> 35:15.460 politics or anything like that. But we tried to figure out, 35:15.610 --> 35:18.040 when's the best time to have an event. And so if everyone's 35:18.040 --> 35:20.050 demanding, we have one and we want to meet in person, right? 35:20.050 --> 35:22.870 Now we start to think about it very seriously. Should we have 35:22.870 --> 35:25.330 one? Where can we have one? What are the laws about having one, 35:26.440 --> 35:29.110 who would come who would feel comfortable, and we've just 35:29.110 --> 35:31.750 found that those who expressed that they would feel comfortable 35:32.260 --> 35:36.700 when given the prospect of actually coming to one, are 35:36.700 --> 35:38.800 actually have a lot more reservations than they 35:38.860 --> 35:43.660 originally led on to. So I think we're really going to need to 35:43.660 --> 35:49.690 have the vaccine available for people to have to comfort you 35:49.690 --> 35:56.440 and for people to do what they want to do. That's my thought on 35:56.440 --> 35:56.590 it. 35:57.130 --> 36:00.250 Johny Fernandez: So let's talk about this the new magazine. 36:00.460 --> 36:05.530 Okay. So let's I mean, obviously, it's funny, because I 36:05.530 --> 36:08.560 think the title itself is great. It's like when the music stops 36:08.560 --> 36:12.100 how the pandemic threatened the history and culture of Austin, 36:12.100 --> 36:18.130 Texas. But I think what's interesting is how it affected 36:18.130 --> 36:21.460 all of us like, no, but specifically this, but I think. 36:21.490 --> 36:25.300 Yeah. This can be taken, put anywhere. And yeah, but yeah, 36:25.300 --> 36:27.370 let's talk about the magazine. I mean, the new article. 36:27.660 --> 36:29.550 Sean Murray: So that's the future story. It's about how 36:29.550 --> 36:32.550 the, how the pandemic threatened the history and culture of 36:32.550 --> 36:36.870 Austin, Texas, right. So I think too often we're thinking about 36:36.990 --> 36:43.410 how does it affect a restaurant? How does it affect a baseball 36:43.710 --> 36:48.690 team, right. But we don't really think about a culture being lost 36:48.720 --> 36:53.580 as a result of a pandemic. Austin is pretty much known for 36:53.580 --> 36:56.760 its music history. Now, I'm not the author of this particular 36:56.760 --> 37:00.060 story, right. But the music culture is very big in Austin. 37:00.630 --> 37:03.480 And a lot of people are involved in that industry, because they 37:03.480 --> 37:06.660 have a passion for music. So if you run a music hall in Austin, 37:06.990 --> 37:09.630 it doesn't mean that you make a ton of money doing it, you're 37:09.630 --> 37:12.270 doing it because you love music. And it's part of the culture, 37:12.420 --> 37:15.180 it;s part of your you know, it's your passion. And you have bands 37:15.180 --> 37:18.900 that share that same passion. And so when a pandemic comes, 37:19.350 --> 37:21.840 and you can't pay your rent, you can't pay a mortgage, and you 37:21.840 --> 37:25.620 can't host any events. It's devastating. Yeah. Because they 37:25.620 --> 37:29.070 probably did not have a ton of cash set aside for this type of 37:29.070 --> 37:33.780 event. And in terms of being able to recover, we were talking 37:33.780 --> 37:37.770 about earlier, like, a few months, goodbye, and you owe 37:37.770 --> 37:39.840 money to your landlord, and you're like trying to make a 37:39.840 --> 37:45.180 work out deal, right? In certain parts of the country, people 37:45.180 --> 37:50.700 might look at the business that you had, and think that place 37:50.730 --> 37:53.970 could be better used at something else. Now that you 37:53.970 --> 37:56.010 haven't paid me for a few months, now that you're 37:56.010 --> 37:59.310 struggling, you know, I'd rather turn this venue that you have 37:59.910 --> 38:04.230 into an apartment complex, or an office building. Yeah. And they 38:04.230 --> 38:08.520 don't really want to do any work outs, right, it's more 38:08.520 --> 38:12.030 profitable to actually let the business die. And so you have 38:12.030 --> 38:15.120 this whole situation in Austin, Texas, where you have all these 38:15.120 --> 38:18.420 music halls, essentially on the verge of going out of business, 38:18.420 --> 38:20.730 or in the case of one that we actually started off at the 38:20.730 --> 38:25.170 story starts off talking about a place called Thread Gills, the 38:25.170 --> 38:28.170 staple the Austin community. And it starts off talking about how 38:28.170 --> 38:32.310 the place is in dire, dire straits. Right. And it's 38:32.310 --> 38:35.370 heartbreaking to read about, and there's several others that we 38:35.400 --> 38:38.970 that we talked about in the story. But the writers name is 38:38.970 --> 38:42.120 Paul Sweeney. He told me like you got to publish the story 38:42.120 --> 38:44.790 online now. And I'm like, we really wanted to wait for it to 38:44.790 --> 38:47.460 go in print. Before we just share it out. Yeah. Out there on 38:47.460 --> 38:49.440 the internet. He's like, the problem is you'd like the 38:49.440 --> 38:51.750 circumstances of some of the businesses is going to change 38:51.750 --> 38:55.440 dramatically. By the time you put it out there in print. I'm 38:55.440 --> 38:59.160 like, in like, two weeks or a month, and he's like, yeah, very 38:59.160 --> 39:04.020 possibly. So when we put out this story online, that main 39:04.020 --> 39:07.050 venue, Thread Gills actually went out of business completely 39:07.110 --> 39:10.920 to the point where two weeks ago, they held their very last 39:11.190 --> 39:16.470 concert. And not only is their new ownership, but they're doing 39:16.470 --> 39:19.410 exactly what I said could happen before the new owners, this is 39:19.410 --> 39:26.520 what I read. So the new owners plan to bulldoze the building, 39:26.850 --> 39:32.820 and turn it into apartments. And so you have this historic place 39:32.850 --> 39:36.150 in Austin part of the music culture of the city. That's 39:36.210 --> 39:39.090 because of the pandemic is literally going to get not just 39:39.090 --> 39:41.370 new ownership. And you know, it's like, oh, it's different 39:41.370 --> 39:44.790 now. Right, literally gonna get bulldozed and turn into 39:44.790 --> 39:49.530 apartments, and that will never come back. And so that's one 39:49.560 --> 39:52.200 well, that's why we focus on what why Austin, Texas, you know 39:52.200 --> 39:54.720 what I mean, that's kind of the whole point is that we're not 39:54.720 --> 39:56.820 just losing a business here and they're like, oh, well, new 39:56.850 --> 39:59.850 capitalism is new business will come in and you know, everything 39:59.850 --> 40:02.190 will be fine. The problem is that we could lose entire parts 40:02.190 --> 40:06.060 of American culture too. So that's the main story that we 40:06.060 --> 40:08.550 lead with. Then we also talked about what's happened with 40:08.550 --> 40:11.130 OnDeck, OnDeck this year. Rollercoaster. OnDeck roller 40:11.130 --> 40:14.370 coaster. Yeah. People know a lot about what's happened there. 40:14.370 --> 40:17.910 They were, they were recently acquired by Enova. There's quite 40:17.910 --> 40:20.250 a bit of drama, you were actually reporting outside 40:20.250 --> 40:24.690 their. I do remember, we're outside their headquarters. 40:24.690 --> 40:28.470 Yeah. And then and then we did a story that actually you were 40:28.500 --> 40:31.890 this is based on your report. Yeah. So when you were at 40:31.920 --> 40:35.670 Horizon Financial Group, so we turned that into a story. We 40:35.670 --> 40:40.350 thought that was a really good snapshot of how small commercial 40:40.350 --> 40:43.950 finance brokerages were managing the pandemic. So we took that 40:44.010 --> 40:46.440 report that you did when you went out there and we, and we 40:46.440 --> 40:47.490 turned it into a little story. 40:47.640 --> 40:50.790 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. And it's, it's really interesting, just 40:50.790 --> 40:54.000 seeing, obviously, the changes going on between, you know, just 40:54.000 --> 40:57.060 different businesses. And, you know, either they're out or 40:57.060 --> 40:59.940 they've had to adjust and now they've branched off to like, 40:59.970 --> 41:04.440 even bigger things that they wasn't on the map for them. And 41:04.620 --> 41:09.510 they just had to, like, do it. And they're going and they're 41:09.510 --> 41:14.040 striving and it's a 2020 pandemic year. So 41:14.070 --> 41:16.997 Sean Murray: Yeah. What's crazy that we could have an entire 41:17.059 --> 41:18.990 another year of all this right? 41:18.990 --> 41:19.620 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. 41:19.620 --> 41:20.070 Sean Murray: So 41:20.070 --> 41:21.120 Johny Fernandez: So, we'll see what happens. 41:21.120 --> 41:23.160 Sean Murray: Yeah. Crazy. 41:23.160 --> 41:25.800 Johny Fernandez: Alright, Sean. Thanks for coming through. It's 41:25.857 --> 41:28.440 been great having you. And everyone watching. 41:28.470 --> 41:31.110 Sean Murray: Yeah, thanks for hosting me here at our office. 41:32.580 --> 41:35.443 Johny Fernandez: At our office. deBanked headquarters here in 41:35.508 --> 41:36.420 New York City. 41:36.420 --> 41:37.410 Sean Murray: Hopefully, I come back again soon. 41:37.410 --> 41:39.978 Johny Fernandez: Hopefully you come back soon here. Yeah, and 41:40.036 --> 41:43.247 thanks, you guys for watching. Appreciate it, and we'll 41:43.305 --> 41:44.940 definitely do it again soon.