Sean Murray: Okay, we are ready to go. I'm here today with John Henry. John Henry is the Dominican American entrepreneur, investor and real estate developer. Henry
has been named to the Forbes 30 Under 30, Inc 30 Under 30, Adweek created 100, The Root 100, Ebony Power 100 lists and more. An entrepreneur by DNA. Henry started
his first business at 18. As a college dropout, he bootstrapped it and sold it by 21. Henry later co-founded the VC firm Harlem Capital, raising $40.3
million and making 17 investments and women and minority entrepreneurs before his departure. Henry is also passionate about media. Henry executive produced
and hosted the TV show Hustle on Viceland, Executive produced by Alicia Keys and Marcus Samuelsson, It's a great show, I'm actually a huge fan. And he produced
and hosted podcasts for brands like the Washington Post and Gimlet Media, WeWork, eBay, and Samsung. So without further ado, allow me to introduce to you, John Henry.
John Henry: Nice to be here. Thanks for having me. This is gonna be a fun session, a little bit different than, obviously, like we planned initially, but such is the
the nature of business and life, things change. And, yeah, the funny thing is being kind of an independent operator is so much about, is just as much about
responding and adapting than it is, you know, anything else. So I guess for those participants that are just joining us. Hello, my name is John. And as Sean
mentioned, I'm pretty much a lifelong entrepreneur. And I come from, you know, immigrant parents, and so forth. And, yeah, that's the formative part of my DNA. And,
you know, we were taught to make a lot with a little and taught to my man king of hustle. Yeah, and also, by the way, drop your comments, as you get them in the
chat, that will help me I mean, typically, I have the audience that I can survey and read, if they're bored, or they're engaged, or whatever. So you're going to
need some audience participation, just to know when things are resonating, and so forth. So let's all adapt together to this new situation. And then my hopes is to
just establish some context and kind of dig into some material that I think is pertinent and relevant to today. And then we will get into a little bit of a
facilitated dialogue with Sean. And then lastly, some some Q&A. So I mean, Sean touched on my background, you know, just lifelong into startups, and I started my
first business and which was an on demand dry cleaning business. Sounds real fancy, but one thing I've learned is everything sounds strategic, in hindsight, in
reality, it was an opportunity that I had presented to me. And I was working as a doorman, and one of the residents said, "Hey, you know, you seem like a sharp
kid, you want to get into this business?" And, and for me, at that time, I really was hungry to get into anything and everything that I felt like had the
ability to improve my circumstances, a little bit faster than my situation at that time. So I, you know, I took him up on it, and, you know, just to explain the
candidates just briefly, because I know you guys are into small businesses, he had a facility of dry cleaners. So he had a big dry cleaning plant where he
did the actual dry cleaning. And he said, hey, look, just create a little brand. And all I need you to do is go and you know, knock on doors and convince people to
give you their clothes, you bring them to me, I'll clean them, you bring them back to them, and you know, you can charge them the market rate. So, you know, for
a typical garment, there was seven bucks that I would charge a customer, my mentor would charge me two bucks, I would make five. So that's not a whole lot of money.
But that's all that's all I needed. Because I figured, okay, if I kind of get some volume going for me, this could potentially be interesting. And that was my
initial entry point. And that also taught me my first business lesson, which is there's riches in niches. There's riches in niches. A lot of you guys are
operating in your space. You know, servicing small businesses, and whomever else your clients might be and but small businesses a very, very broad category. So if
you ask me, anytime I've either operated a small business or a startup or anytime I've invested in one, from the sample set that I've seen, which is probably
over 3000 businesses, I've had the pleasure of underwriting and taking a look at the businesses that do the best, quickest, usually start with a very, very
specific and honed initial entry point. So rather than going for all small businesses everywhere, what's a little lane that you can carve for yourself, so you can
create smaller, easier to cover territory for yourself to operate in, and especially in the light of, you know, COVID-19? When resources are tight to come on,
your customers are probably spending less right now. And you probably have less to circulate and put into motion. If ask, me? If ask, me, I really think that
rather than you trying to boil the ocean, if you can find a niche, and we can, we can explore some examples of what a niche might be, you can create a niche for
yourself in a specific industry. So hey, look, I'm the king of you know, just to roll with the example. I'm the king of dry cleaning, I'm the king of beauty shops,
I'm the king of whatever or the queen. Similarly, it doesn't have to be industry focused, you can be you know, you can dominate a certain geographic region, you
can dominate, you know, businesses that have specific challenges, like regulatory challenges. You can dominate, you know, office or retail or commercial,
there's all different kinds of niches that you can fill. But, you know, just to tie back into the narrative here, I found my niche and, and sometimes,
finding a niche isn't so much strategy as much as it is life presents it to you. Sometimes you got to try a bunch of different things, because you start with where
you think makes sense. And that ends up not being quite lucrative, and you kind of navigate and you keep going, you know, I just stumbled into the hotel industry, and
I loved it. But it was just really high volume and really low margin. So I was like, not for me, and I kept kind of kept going. And initially I had at some
point rather, I had the opportunity to, to service, the film and the television industry. And I knew it was a fit right away. And they really needed someone to go
above and beyond for them. And I was willing to do it. And the only as another telltale sign of a niche is usually there are very, very few established
competitors. And in my case, there was only one. One competitor Minerva Cleaners that had been around for decades and had gotten to the point where they had
critical mass, and they did not care about the individual customer as much as this new entrant. Right. So you know, you you're got something when you're an 18
year old kid who's a college dropout with no business experience. And these productions say, you know what, we're, we're willing to take a bat, screw it, you know,
because Minerva was that bad. And they were that complacent. And so anytime you can spot a little niche where there's a large incumbent, who is not paying
attention to the the end consumer who's not guarding that relationship, who's not over indexing and caring as much as you can, that's an entry point. That 100% is
an entry point. And that was the real, you know, it's one thing to learn a lesson intellectually, it's another thing to go through the motions, and transfer
it from intellectually down to experientially, you get it, you have it instilled in you, you know what the deal is. So that that kind of sent me on my way. And I
was fortunate to build a nice sized business there, on, you know, and I finally upgraded from picking up the sacks of laundry on foot to getting a car to eventually
getting several vans to hiring several employees, and so on and so forth. And ultimately was able to, I sold the business, not because I built something that's so
impressive that someone was chasing me down to buy but rather, I fell out of love with it. And I, you know, for me, I want that to optimize for narrative over
dollars. So I probably would have made I almost definitely would have made more by now from holding the business than from exiting. But I knew that the
power of narrative would yield more down the road in terms of opportunities, and this is an area now that we're transitioning into that I think is very, very
relevant for you guys. The next project I did after my dry cleaner was is weird, bizarre incubator project. I started an incubator project that made no money, you
know, took all the businesses, I accepted a bunch of businesses, I, you know, we gave them resources. And we didn't charge anything, we didn't take any equity from
these businesses that were in the incubator, we only asked them to stay in Harlem after the incubator. So it's a beautiful project, but I didn't make any money.
So but the interesting thing is, the things that build brand, i.e. the things that build you as the things that build your differentiated viewpoint, the things
that make you a highly sought after broker or, you know, service person, is how unique the market sees you, relative to your counterparts. Now, here's the
catch, you can only get distinct if you're, you know, doing it a little bit different than most, which means that oftentimes, from my experience, the thing that
builds the most brand, almost never has direct return on investment in the short term. Let's unpack that most people will want to, most people will want to get into
something that pays now. And I get that, you know, we have a situation, you know, that we got to take care of our immediate needs, and we're out there looking for
business. And so anytime you're in situation where you know, you're just transacting, and you're selling cool, that's taking care of your situation right now.
However, the things that have the longest tail and have the most upside, are the things that are kind of bizarre, kind of different, things that just generate
buzz. For instance, you know, tying into this co-found Harlem project that I was working on, it was just so bizarre that people would say, "Whoa, this is crazy".
And people would just talk about it. "Wow. You know, have you heard about this kid doing this incubator where they're just accepting businesses in Harlem and
the Wow, it's amazing, right?" And anytime you can fill a place in someone's mind, it's better than filling no place. And you can't fill a spot in someone's mind, if
you're not doing anything distinct and differentiated. This was my first sample of that, of realizing that people would go "Oh, yeah, John Henry, that's the kid
who's building 100 companies in Harlem." Let's say that was the tag that I had at the time. So in your respective businesses, what are the things? What is
something that aside from just the core business of transacting and selling goods, you need to, in my opinion, underpin that with something that you are
investing into, that is going to build your brand over the long term, a great example is content. Content is not something where you will monetize directly, and
anyone who does try to monetize their content in the short term, start selling e-courses, and you immediately get put into that bucket, you're that
person, or that guy or that girl, versus what I would love for you guys, is to invest into a little mic, little camera, whatever, and start producing content
that's offering value. You're not going to be able to monetize it. You're still going to be focusing on your sales. But here's what happens. The person who just
focuses on sales, but doesn't produce content will have but limited upside. Because there's nothing inherently distinct about this person's individual business. The
person that sells and maybe, maybe dips into a little bit of their cannibalize their own ability to sell because they're investing time into producing content,
and sharing your own perspective about the industry and your thoughts and what you think about COVID and how it's affecting small business and the best products
that small businesses should use and, and the small businesses that you're hot on and what sectors and what have you. And you're just putting this out, and you're
putting this out, and now you're introducing value into the ecosystem, people start consuming you say, Hmm, this is kind of interesting. Now you're giving
something away for free without asking anything in return, which again, seems counterintuitive. But what what starts happening is you start building brand
equity. And anytime someone associate you with a particular category or feeling, it's like putting a penny in the brand jar. So anytime, you know you're out
there talking about small businesses, you're out there sharing your perspective on your products, people are slowly beginning to consume. Take notice. You can do
other differentiated things like let's say you're going to offer some services pro bono for businesses affected by COVID. That's noteworthy. "Wow, have you heard about
the guy or the gal doing X?" You know, I want you to guys to think about things that have that are just outside the box, you know, make shit up, you know, if
you're just like in the box, you're gonna be limited to being valued by whatever the market prescribes your value to be based on precedent. But I want you guys to
mix it up. Right? If I wasn't if I was an incubator people all the time said, Well, why don't you know when I was running my incubator? Well, why don't you take at
least 1% of equity? Well, the reality is the moment I would have taken 1% equity, it would have killed the narrative completely, it would have removed all the
shock factor it would have been Oh, yeah, yeah, it's just another incubator. So so by me saying zero percent equity, we take nothing. shock factor, oh, my God, and
then watch, you will get earned media, people will say, Wow, have you heard about this, this is incredible. We got picked up on TechCrunch, we got picked up on Google
and, and all of a sudden, we had sponsors coming in and you're able to monetize in ways that to you are not yet immediately perceivable in this present moment, when
you do things that have incalculable amounts of goodwill. Okay, so this is not to say, hey, run your business to the ground by doing everything for free.
But what are some of your own personal experiences in DNA that you can tap into, that will position you and authentically tap into mind you that can lend itself
you can combine it into your offering, for instance, I'm Hispanic, I'm Latino, okay, I'm doing a seminar for absolutely free for all Latino business owners, because
we've been disproportionately affected by COVID come one come all, we're going to and you don't even have to talk directly about like, the thing that you're doing
now. You can you can talk about, you know, small business ecosystem 101, you know, small business survival, you know, life after COVID, how do you get
back on your feet, I just want you guys to provide value in a way that's authentic to you, you know, to your Indian community, to the Latino community. You
know, Jewish community, black community, maybe it's not even race based, I doubt that was just, that's an example of a lens that you can use. Another lens could
be, hey, for the community of, you know, Tombs Borough, Georgia. Hey, we're doing this thing, you know, help a neighbor. You know, whatever it is, I want, I want you
guys to be able to the takeaway here, the key takeaway is that in order to build brand and get wildly differentiated opportunities down the road, you need to
create a solid infrastructure. For one month, it's gonna take 12 to 18 months of putting your time, your money, your effort into sharing, you know, just mixing
it up a little bit sharing content, lending your perspective and what have you. And what ends up happening is, it's funny, because most of my friends at
that time, when I was running cofound, Harlem, we're like, bro, this is bizarre, you just sold the business. And instead of putting them money into something else
that generates money, you're, you're putting your money into a sinking hole that has no ROI. Well play that out a few years later. And you know, their growth
eventually was capped, because they were doing things like you know, Facebook marketing and things that are essentially commodities. And because I did something
wildly differentiated, I might have made less money than them during that time. But then my curve went like this. Because that was that experience was the same
reason why I became highly sought after. It's the same reason why Alicia Keys hit me up and said, "Hey, that I heard about this project. It's absolutely unreal. We
would love to produce a television show around it." I couldn't have planned for that. I couldn't have foreseen that. But it's something that came my way as a
result of another example is I got the opportunity to start a venture capital fund. And we ended up doing the same thing we were doing at Co-Found Harlem, but we did
it on a for profit basis investing in businesses. And, you know, that opportunity to raise a $40 million fund and really make history there. That came as a result of
me doing that project because my then team at Harlem capital, heard about me through what I was doing at C0-Found. So you I'm a really big believer in locking
yourself into an investing the energy and effort into something that's noteworthy, that's differentiated, that's just going to generate buzz because as you look
at your current business, I guarantee you that anyone who invested into building out their web presence, their brand prior to COVID, prior, is now the brokers
and the Service folks that are getting most of the money right now they're capturing the most market share. Why? Well, we couldn't have foreseen that COVID
was coming, no one could. However, it served only as a catalyst to the trends that were already happening. Businesses and brokers that had no web presence. It's
not a web presence, not something you build overnight, a following is not something you build overnight. So when you're finally, when you finally found yourself in
a position where, you know, you can't go out there and pound pavement and you know, build that trust that you could in person. What do you have then? You're in a
really vulnerable spot, if you didn't invest into becoming known as that's any lane, whatever the lane is, but if you don't have a line at all in the web,
then you're in distinguished, you're hard to search you, people can't find you, people aren't looking for you. And your business dried up, I'm certain. To anyone
here in the room that did invest in building out their digital presence, then what happens is in a web dominated environment. Now, you know, this is just the
way that the market has evolved, but consumers are being drawn to, it's a brand driven environment right now. Before back in the day, you could have like,
really commoditized types of businesses do well, like shippingexpress.com, or, you know, you know, cabinethardware.com, you know, whatever.com, because
people were optimizing for SEO, which is search engine optimization. So back in those days, the way to win because Google was like, the the only platform at
scale, was just optimizing your business to be the most searchable, which really meant having the most directly relatable names tied to your business. Dry Cleaning
NYC, you know, just like super commoditized, kind of generic brands that were easily searchable. That was a web environment in the late 1990s, and the early to mid
2000s. Now, with the rise of social media, people aren't going to really generic names that, you know, that's not how it wins. That's not how you win anymore,
because that's not how consumers search anymore. Consumers now gravitate to brands that they feel like they know and trust. And the ability to build a brand
that people know, and trust is not limited anymore. To big corporations, I have a brand that people know and trust as an individual. And I was able to leverage my
own individual brand into building a business like Harlem Capital that then by extension of people knowing and trusting me, they also knew and trusted Harlem
Capital. As an example, I recently I recently launched an equity, I'm sorry, an apparel concept that I called equity apparel, and I spun that business up. And again,
the amount of goodwill that I have, I was able to transfer it into that kind of business. And that was off and running. So the real thing of value right now
in the digital ecosystem, is brand, and brand cannot be bought, brand must be built. And it must be built on an authentic foundation. That's something that you care
about. And I don't think that you have to build a brand. In fact, I didn't build my brand. by speaking just about business, I think you do have to offer that
high level layer of, you know, information that you know, so that you can be an authority, an authority. However, you really build brand by exploring the depth.
I'd rather you guys go a mile deep and an inch wide. And for some reason, when people get into thinking of talking about business content, they just keep a super
high level. But have you ever met a person where you just feel like you don't know anything about him? You know, because all they can just keep it real
professional, they just keep it you know, keep it real professional. You know, it's like, okay, cool, but like, that's fine. But you're lukewarm about them.
Yeah, cool. They're nice. But you don't know you don't know who they are. So what if you got into a situation where you started looping in some of your experiences,
your personal Why? Like, why are you in this business? How did you get into here? What were you doing before? What was your journey like? You know, like, hey, look,
I got married with kids and I was working a job. And then I realized, like, I needed to take control of my own future. So here's what I did. I got into this kind
of business and I'm really passionate about helping the small business community that because small business is the backbone of America. Then you start occupying a
lane in someone's mind and say, you know, I I just like this person, I just like her. I like how she's coming at it. I like how he's coming at it. And that you will
not see ROI in that. You won't see ROI in it for the short term, let me spoil the surprise right now. You won't, because if you did, everyone would do it, and
therefore it wouldn't be distinct, and therefore it wouldn't build any branch. So instead, I want you guys to lean and take a take a page from my playbook here.
And this is something that has served me well, time and again. Offer your core services because you got to make ends meet. But take some of the portions that you're
earning, even if it's a little bit and put it into investing into a little setup. Like this. Or even just your phone. All you need is your phone. And but just
start investing energy into sharing a little bit more about who you are and why you're doing this and and break through from hey, yeah, this person is a broker.
I guess, too. Oh, yeah, I know. I know his story. I know her story. Wow. I'm Armenian. Also, this journey really resonated with me, this and now and what have
you. And over time, the market will reward you, you will grow a brand. I don't buy glasses from anyone that isn't Warby Parker anymore. Doesn't matter. I don't
care. I don't care if there's a cheaper company, it doesn't matter to me. I just, I just buy Warby Parker because I fucking love Warby Parker, because Warby
Parker, just you know, over time has just built brand with me. And they've developed incredible brand affinity. So to there are people that you might have
this kind of connection with already, but it's probably limited to the types of the people that you contact in person. Well, what happens when that's completely gone.
You're limiting your ability to grow. COVID served only as a catalyst for what was already going to happen, which is people that do not build brand will perish.
COVID served only as a catalyst for what was already happening. I was already seeing people in legacy businesses be uprooted by someone who entered and
started to building brand. I was already seeing SEO on the decline, and paid ads get more expensive. So people will run some paid ads, but paid ads are cool. But the
moment you stop paying for it, it goes away. Organic last forever. But it can't be bought, it's got to be built. So you tell me in this business environment
right now, where you know, small business was was hit incredibly hard and measurably hard. And people are on the bounce back. Guess what? The small businesses. So
same thing that applies to you applies to them, small businesses that put in the work to build an e-commerce and a web infrastructure before COVID. Before COVID,
when everything went down, and consumers all shifted online, they were immediately going to people that had smooth checkout experiences that had a little bit of
brand and put out a little bit of content and you could kind of sort of heard from them. And you kind of sort of all consumers also kind of have a sixth sense about
which brands are like are they can trust online. Right and Seamless is crushing these small businesses, let's say in the example of food, they're taking 30% so the
business is like I just ordered yesterday from a business here. I'm in Allentown, Pennsylvania, one of the properties that I own and I ordered from a place
called Sumo Sushi. Why? I don't know, I just kind of sort of knew that they do web stuff like and I googled sushi Allentown and and like you know, they came up
first not because they their name is sushi Allentown, but because, you know, they just had like good pick, you know, clean, you know, pictures, I clicked on them,
and they just had like a smooth checkout experiences. And by me ordering directly with them, I saved them 30% from Seamless, they were happy to deliver. So the small
businesses that also put in the work to build the plumbing and the infrastructure before COVID are now capturing more market share. So if your clients are
headed in a direction where they're going to be shifting more to building their web presence, even when on in person comes back. In person will come back,
it'll come back. But it'll never be the same ever again. Because people will always have that in their mind, wow, I got crushed, I'm going to develop an
e-commerce, a web presence, you know, a brand infrastructure. And they, the more you can back into where the puck is going, so to speak, where where the
puck is where it is, right now, everyone's fucked where the puck is right now, just the reality. However, as things start to pick up, look where people are going,
it's not that hard, like, everyone is going to be investing in building out, you know, a web presence and making sure that they don't get caught, you know, with
their pants down again, they want to make sure that they're protected, they want to make sure that they're not as vulnerable, they want to make sure that their
clientele is is varied and differentiated. And they want to make sure that they're going to be you know, that they have a different customer mix in terms of
where their revenues coming from. And the more their service people, i.e. you, are well equipped to fit into whatever the new environment is going to be, the
greater off you'll be, the bigger your business will grow. And that must start with my opinion of content, content, content, content, content. Because it's the
cheapest way in there are other ways in but this is the cheapest way in. And if you compare content with something distinct, like your experience, your
neighbor, you know, whatever something we talked, we talked about something that's emotionally resonate. Boom! That's the chip on top of that, then you get the
compounded benefit of Wow, this person cares, I kind of know them, I know their journey. I know why they do this, you know, and then also you're spewing good
information. And also, you know, you become you know, digitally native and proficient, then you'll fit seamlessly with some of these business people with some
of these small businesses in the new, you know, the 2021 environment. And you will get more customers as a result of having put in some initial groundwork, which
most people are not willing to do, because it doesn't pay right away. But I'll tell you what, as a guy who did it, I bust my ass for two years, it probably takes
a closer to a year and a half to two years. I but I hate leading with two years because I don't want to scare people. But as a guy who did it. is a guy,
regular guy, mind you. I don't consider myself particularly talented. I don't consider myself particularly anything, but but I did it. But I did it.
And I saw it grow before my eyes. And it has gotten to a point where, you know, now my, you know, I just have very, very different opportunities today than I did
five years ago when I started. And that is largely attributed to a mixture of deciding to do things that optimize for narrative over short term dollars. And
pairing it with sharing that story while you do it. And you don't got to be a guru, you don't got to be a guru about anything, you can even say, Hey, I don't even
know much about this business, but I'm gonna be documenting my journey and having you guys follow along. And pairing those two things will create a
recession proof business model for you, that will be able to grow when most people are not. So that concludes my remarks. And happy to jump into some Q&A.
Sean Murray: Okay, thank you very much for that. Um, if anyone has a question, they can feel free to ask it in the chat. Do not be shy. I have a question for you,
John, right off the bat while we wait for others to join in. You talked a lot about building brand equity, and building the brand. You know, that can be a tough
pill to swallow for a small company, who is really under the, I guess the structure where they have to spend $1 to make $2 and can't really deploy capital
elsewhere. But let's say they do what you what you say is kind of the right way to go about it. How do they measure their performance? How do they measure their
brand equity? How do they know if they're even doing it right?
John Henry: That's a great question. I will say focusing on quantitative metrics too early will squander your effort. Because if you're too focused on
impressions, comments, reach to start you're going to find yourself trying to produce content that you know the type of content that naturally lends itself to most
impressions is like things with shock factor and just like, you know, kind of ridiculous stuff versus my opinion, you at first have to hone in, you have to dial
in your proficiency on whatever medium. So it could be camera could be audio, it could be written. So you have to first focusing on dialing and medium. And then
second focus on honing your story, what's going to be your message, it took me a while of tinkering around with different messages until I clicked with. I'm
building generational wealth for communities of color. Boom! Now, if you bring that up, there's no way I don't come up. But it took a little while. So I first want
people to hone in on qualitative metrics, not quantitative metrics, ie, keep putting out content and dabbling until you get to the point where when you get
your first comment, that's like a paragraph long, you're onto something. It's not about how many comments not about a number of people typing in XOXO, or like,
you know, harder emojis or fire emojis. It's like, I this how I did it, I looked for someone that took time out of their day, to write a big ass paragraph about
their thoughts and how their life related to what I had just put out. That let me know, I'm onto something. So I resisted the temptation to succumb to the low hanging
fruit metrics that are quantitative, and first spent time honing a carefully crafted message that resonated with people. And that will in the long run, in the long
run vastly outpaced anyone who's who's trying to growth hack. So and then to your point about cost, it doesn't have to, it doesn't have to cost that much, you know,
you can do it with your phone, you can do it by just, you know, Hey, guys, what's going on, and you know, just starting that way. So there are definitely ways to
do it for cheap. But if it's going to be cheap, it's going to cost you time. So it'll either cost you a lot of time or a lot of money, a lot of money if you have
to throw at it and get a team going. But I prefer with starting with it taking a lot of time, that way, you know, you're learning the ins and outs of yourself
instead of outsourcing it.
Sean Murray: So you've had the advantage of being on TV. And I think everyone appreciates the the whole Hey, guys, you know, Instagram Live form of marketing and
brand building now. But his TV is valuable that used to be, I guess my question would be, what did that do for you? Did it did you see a major change that you might
have otherwise not been able to have gotten? Just from social media?
John Henry: It's a good question. Another, you know, another great question. You know, people are saying that TV is dying, and that, you know, he's going
digital, and I you know, largely agree, I think digital is definitely the way to enter for cheapest. But TV still TV man. TV has compound impressions. TV is like
the equivalent of compound interest in the financial markets. Like, I'm here now. And there's a rerun, running right now in Berlin and France and whatever.
However, I will say that I didn't get on TV. You know, out of nowhere, it started with this, and it grew to a little vlog, and it grew to a little podcast, and it
grew. And every time, you know, you put something down, people have the opportunity to pick it up. So when you start communicating to the world at large, people will
start seeing you in that way. And then you know, when there's an event and they need a speaker, they might say, Oh, yeah, I've seen you do this thing, hey, you
might be good for this. And so the same essence of the thing that started with me, and the phone is the same thing that got me all the way to the point where I was
doing a television show. So yeah, so I wouldn't just discount the value of television. But I also wouldn't discount the value of getting started simply on your
phone, because content is more important than, you know, large distribution channels, in my opinion, especially right now.
Sean Murray: So earlier, he told me that we could ask you anything. And so I'm going to switch gears and refer to a quote you put on social media, which I think
is a really good quote, because it applies to our audience very much. We have a lot of groups online, or trainers that claim to teach you how to be the best
salesperson, you just need to pay them a monthly fee, or you just need to subscribe and they're going to give you all the tips and all the tricks, right? And they
know best because they're the expert. And if you don't know them really well. You're not really sure if they are the expert and so your quote was "I don't listen to
anyone in business that hasn't lost more money than me." Do you live, do you live by? I mean, how much do you live by that quote?
John Henry: Someone's laughing said only $97 per month in the chat. Yeah, um, you know, I do what I meant to way with that tweet is, I, you know, taking guidance is
helpful, especially when that person has gone through more bumps and bruises than you. And so I find that, you know, this came from, this sentiment came from
earlier on in my career, I find myself looking for validation from people that weren't even in a game. They were just on the sidelines. And so like the people
that are out there doing, you know, e-courses, and you know, selling stuff, when's the last time they built the business, I don't know. If they had if they built a
successful and a lot of them build businesses around selling courses, so they sell you on how to sell things. But when's the last time they actually built a
business predicated on sale, like selling a product or service, that's not courses. That to me will allow me to put a finger on the value. If it's, you know, if
it's someone that is recently off of something that is directly pertinent to what you're doing, I might pay for it. But um, I just don't, there's so many gurus and
coaches on the sidelines that haven't rolled their sleeves up and built something in a long time. And I just don't think that their advice is worth any more
than yours. And, and I think, you know, and, and I say that in an empowering way, like, Hey, your experience of being on the ground and putting money up and going
through the bumps and bruises and losing cash. That is what builds chops. And so that's how I landed on that line, where I realized, like, Man, you know, I lost
more cash than I care to admit some big investments, but they it's not about how much you make, it's about the person you become when you take the bet. And I've
become a much smarter businessperson and investor as a result of having put skin in the game. So, you know, for people out there put skin up and put it could be
little, it's all relative, but but put skin in the game, so you're not a spectator.
Sean Murray: So you're a big fan of real estate. And that's how you invest. And you were you were in venture capital before, but you but you chose real estate?
John Henry: Mm hmm.
Sean Murray: So my question would be, what is so attractive about investing in real estate versus other types of investing?
John Henry: Another great question. So for me, I truly, I practice what I preach. So instead of like, paying for courses to learn about small business investing, or
real estate or whatever, I just put my own cash up, I saved up a little bit, not a lot, you know, I saved 5K and me and three other friends, we rounded up 5K each,
and we had to 20K check, and we put it into small business. And then I waited a little while to add 5K again, same friends, we put it into a little bit of
real estate. And so together with a little group of friends, I was able to dabble in a number of different asset classes, in stocks that are publicly traded in
small businesses, and real estate and in venture capital. And ultimately, what I was attracted to the most was an asset class that that distributes cash
flow, and that is illiquid. So it's, it's because the nature of stocks you can buy and you can sell with the click of a button. People are buying selling all the
time. And so that's the volatile nature of it buying, selling buying. And so it just it just made me uneasy, because I felt like I was gambling. There's ways to get
good, and people do get good. But then I looked at venture capital, with venture capital, there's no distributing of profits, because the companies are
expected to reinvest all their profits so they can grow quickly. So the only liquidation event of venture capital is when they get mature. And then they sell. So
while I like that, I was like, Man, that's risky, because they can grow big. And if they never sell, you never make your money back. So then I started looking
at real estate, it's illiquid. So because you can't buy and sell super quickly, it doesn't go up and down super quickly, it goes up solid. And then when my favorite
part is it pays you while you wait. So all you got to do is wait for it to go up in value, and it pays while you wait. And if there's ever a crisis where values
dip, the value might dip, but the cash flow doesn't. So you still get paid while you wait until it recovers and gets to a point where you're saying, you know what,
this is my number I'm gonna sell. You offload it. And you know, you make some money, and there's all kinds of tax advantages. And lastly, the bank has a different
relationship with real estate than it does small businesses. My small business was making 50K a month at some point, and the bank still would allow me 50K,
because it's just they just don't know about dry cleaning, you know, they'd rather they're not they're very risk averse. Whereas in real estate, it's got
tangible value. It's got you know, they know that if I don't make my mortgage payment, they at least have the building that they can fall back on. So historically,
this nation has had a very different relationship with real estate than it has any other asset class. So for those reasons, I choose real estate.
Sean Murray: I like it. So we have a question from Linda. It goes back to, I think, posting content online. So her question is, where is the best place to
post your story? Instagram? Or is there a specific platform that people should be posting to?
John Henry: Yeah, I think that depends on where you feel you're best equipped to resonate. You know, if you're hip and visual, and whatever, then you might do
Instagram. But personally, I really like LinkedIn. Because it's member, I always talk about whitespace, like finding a niche. Finding a niche in your business
also applies to when you're producing content, finding a little niche where your content can resonate, that other people aren't posting in as much. So Instagram
right now is super crowded. And people that have audience already, like myself have a little bit more room to be more dominant. However, LinkedIn is brand
new, they're dishing out reach. Because when a platform is new, and the algorithm is nascent, they want people to use it more so that the model gets smarter. So
algorithms get smarter with more frequency. So if that's true, then they're dishing out reach. So any content creators that jump on a platform early, get
rewarded by that platform with outsized reach, which is why TikTok so popular, TikTok is popular, because people are going on there and getting a million views,
like, you know, almost with no effort. And so what happens when that auto corrects, and then it becomes difficult? Well, the people that jumped in early are
going to have the advantage because they'll have a bigger organic audience. So LinkedIn is going through the same thing right now. It's very pertinent directly
pertinent to the brokers here and what they sell, and their clients are there. So I'm a big fan of LinkedIn right now.
Sean Murray: Yeah, we are as well. We do really, really well with LinkedIn. I think everyone else should use it, too. You tweeted a month ago, or maybe it was two
months ago. I think it spoke to speed when doing things. You tweeted, make three mistakes before they make one.
John Henry: Yeah
Sean Murray: Is that how you that how you approach things. Did that work? Is it okay to like to mess things up? to kind of have first mover advantage?
John Henry: Yeah, that is true. I try to make three mistakes before someone makes one decision. And the result is a lot more imperfect action, you know, I'll
just be up front. So some people just prefer to be more calculated. And I think there's a case to be made for being more calculated, when the decision at hand is
very high stakes. But for the most part, I think we'll find our day to day, you know, my, the minority of decisions that we're making are high stakes, the
majority of them are pretty frivolous stakes. So frivolous stakes. So for me, I'd rather just get in the groove of Yep, okay, nope, yep, nope. Because what
happens for me is, just like an algorithm on social media, gets smarter with more use, so to is your ability to make decisions improve with more frequency.
So, you know, the more I'm in my head about a decision, and then I call a mentor, and double check, and this and that, and it's just like, dude, just make the
decision. Because it doesn't matter if you're wrong or right. What matters is, you know, the data that you get back from making a mistake, I thought that was wrong,
okay, then your model gets smarter. And so I've gotten smarter at business, not because I've read more, but because I've done more. And the more I've done, the
more I've calibrated my model, that is my mind. And I could just make decisions better and your accuracy of decision making improves with more repetition. So I
think quantity leads to quality, not the other way around.
Sean Murray: This might be the last question we'll find out. So one thing that pops up a lot among sales people who work for could be any company, is you know what, I
could do this myself, I could even start my own company. I don't need to work here. Right? I can do this all on my own. But I think what it comes down to
is, are they really an entrepreneur? And do they have what it takes? And it seems that you've figured that out for yourself? pretty early on, but what was it that
made you realize that you were an entrepreneur, a true entrepreneur, or not just someone who loved the idea of owning a company?
John Henry: Hmm. That's a great question. I figured it out because I couldn't breathe at my job. I just couldn't stand it. And there are, I've learned now
through just having seen so many businesses and invest in so many entrepreneurs. I used to think that it was binary, it's like one way in or not. I've seen a lot of
people back into entrepreneurship. I've met the reluctant entrepreneur who didn't want to become an entrepreneur, but the thing that they saw in their mind
existed nowhere and they exhausted all other options. And finally, they're like God, they're like, dammit, fine. I'll have to start this thing. So I've seen The
reluctant entrepreneur. But in my case, I just, I just, I couldn't stand being at my job. I couldn't stand it. Just like I couldn't stand being in school. I dropped
out of school, my very first semester, I dropped out of college. And at work I just kept, kept getting fired. And so I figured, you know, at first I thought, I was
like, Man, you know, there must be something wrong with me. But I felt like I was a well intentioned, you know, young man. And I just realized that I don't thrive in
structured environments. So I think that there's the kind of entrepreneur that can't stand structured environments, that type of person almost never really
carries a job. There's a type of person that, you know, thinks they want to dabble. And that person has to double check their gut and go and do it, and see if the
stress load is worth it for them. And then there's a person that is the reluctant entrepreneur that they, you know, exhausted all of their options, but the
vision that they see in their mind isn't being done anywhere. And then they reluctantly go into business and do it. And I've seen that person built Gimlet
Media, which sold to Spotify for $200 million. So I think that, you know, now I'm mature enough to know that there's a lot of different paths. So you kind of
just got back into what your exact situation is, and give it a shot for yourself.
Sean Murray: Perfect. So we do have time for one more question. We have like two and a half minutes left.
John Henry: Okay.
Sean Murray: The question is, how do you deal with negativity when pitfalls happen in your business?
John Henry: Um, that's a good question. I mean, how are you supposed to deal with it? I mean, yeah, it comes. Sometimes you read something that screws with your
head, and you're just like, the things that screw with your head are the things that you're most insecure about with your own self. Because I can read a comment
that says John's dumb, let's say, I don't feel I'm dumb. So let's be like, okay, that's fine. You know, but if I, if I read a comment that get one of the
things that get under your skin are things that you're insecure about in your own self. And that's when it that's when it's things and you know, I've been through
things where, you know, Twitter's a double edged sword, like it can work for you. And if you say the wrong thing, people will roast you and flame you. And I've
been through that as well. And, you know, I just take it as a learning moment. And, and I just say, Well, I see what you guys are saying, I hear you, I feel you.
You know? And you just kind of take an issue, you just gotta roll with the punches. Man, there's, there's really no other way. Because what's the alternative,
you let it get screwed in your head. And, you know, people are already out there judging you. So it does nothing for you to sit there and judge yourself and
fuel that fire. You need to extinguish that fire. So I don't pay too much attention to my mistakes, and my detractors.
Sean Murray: Like it. So we literally have 60 seconds left, but what is your view on acquiring a business or starting one? Is it okay for an entrepreneur like
yourself to buy? Or do they always have to start?
John Henry: I bought a business, I like buying a business, you'll, you know, you'll pay the price. So it just depends. Do you have the cash to pay the price to
buy an existing business and improve it from there, Starbucks, a lot of people don't know, Howard Schultz worked in Starbucks was fired, built, started his own
chain, built it, and then bought Starbucks and renamed the chain, he started to Starbucks and kept growing it. So you know, there's many ways to win. But I like
starting, but I've also bought.
Sean Murray: But thank you, John. Really appreciate it. That's all the time we have here today. We thank you very much.
John Henry: Yeah, this is great. And kudos to you guys for being bold and brave and pivoting and responding to, you know, the current environment. So, you know, I
think this is one of the first conferences that I've seen lean into the environment that we're living in. So kudos to you guys for being bold and brave, and it was
really an honor to be to take part. Thank you for having me.
Sean Murray: Thank you. It means a lot coming from you. Thanks.