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Hello, my name is Sean Murray with Debanked, and today I'm at Red Line

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Capital with CEO Nicole Cruz.

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That's right.

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We are at the headquarters in Secaucus, New Jersey.

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Yes, we are.

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Now,

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you are an expert salesperson.

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You run your own company. But tell me, what is Red Line Capital

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considered? Would you call it a brokerage?

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What's the term that you would use for Red Line?

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I would say 100% brokerage. We like to

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say that, and we're very proud about it. We do not lend.

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We don't say we lend. We're

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probably one of the best brokers.

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How did you come up with the name Red Line?

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Red is my favorite color.

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And when I was a kid, I watched a movie called "Red Line," and it was a

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horrible

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movie,

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but I just liked the cars, the racing.

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So then I was like, "Oh, I want to be authentic.

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I think I'm going to go with Red Line." And it was just

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very, very... It wasn't thought out.

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It was just very like, "Ah, I'm going to go with it."

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Mm-hmm.

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And now, I'm very proud to say that it's a brand. And I'm very proud of it.

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So you took a gamble because you pick a name, and in the beginning, you don't know

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if it's going to work out, right?

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Yes.

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But then after a while, you're kind of stuck with it.

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So are you happy with the name?

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Very happy.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. I actually

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picked the name in 2020, right before COVID.

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And I was like, "I'm a contractor. I'm a broker. I work at a shop.

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I'm just going to pick a name." I never thought it would be this.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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But you're a CEO now.

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But you weren't always. You used to work in sales yourself. Is that right?

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Yes.

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So how long have you worked in the industry for?

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So I got in the industry in 2018. I started at Fundry,

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and

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I've learned a lot. Now, I'm proud to say that I can master the sales

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techniques, but it's been a long time coming. It hasn't came easy.

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It's been a lot of losing deals, a lot of competition, a lot of hitting my

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head against the wall and thinking, "Man, what am I doing wrong?" And I think

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that something that helped me a lot was every time I lost, I

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tried to identify why, right? And then every time I realized why, then I would put

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that in my pocket and say, "Never again."

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Mm-hmm.

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So just doing that process over and over again is what got

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me to this level of expertise.

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So, I've talked to brokers before, and I've talked to owners of brokerages

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before, and one recurring theme I find is that

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there's a difference between running the shop-

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Yeah

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... and being the broker on the phone.

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And I think if you're really good at being the broker on the phone,

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you might say, "Well, I could also

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run the shop." But it seems to me that that's an entire

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different beast, that a lot of other things you wouldn't normally have

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to deal with if you were just a broker.

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So when you made that transition from being a broker to running a

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company, what type of new things did you have to encounter?

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I had no idea what I was going to encounter.

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When I first started, it was more like, I just want to do my own thing, pitch

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a few deals, make a little bit of money, and then very quickly it became a

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business. And business is hiring,

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training, CRMs, technology. So many other

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things that you never think of, and it all just kind of started falling on me, and

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I'm like, "Wait, I have to do what?"

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Mm-hmm.

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And over time it's like the pieces do come together, but it's the

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last thing you're thinking about, right?

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You're good on the phones, and you have no idea how to do anything else, and now

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it's like you've got to market, you've got to do this, you've got to build a brand,

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you've got to get your reviews, and it's really crazy how it works, but it

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definitely doesn't start with that thought. Not even close.

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No.

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That's the last thing you're thinking about.

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I recall when we were talking earlier, you said you started, it was you and two

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other women together.

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Yeah.

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Three of you, right?

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Yep.

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Was there at some point where you're like,

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"We need to bring other people on to help us grow with what we're doing"?

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Did you feel like you personally maxed out what you personally could do, and you

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started to think like, "If I brought other people on, I could do more?" What was

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the thought process?

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Thought process. So I was in my apartment,

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and same thing, right? I just want to close a few deals, whatever.

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And-

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Just close a few deals.

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Yeah, close a few deals, make some cash, match what I was doing at that shop and

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take it from there. And I was doing that with my sister-in-law in my

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apartment.

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Mm-hmm.

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And as I was doing that, it just demanded...

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The expenses were starting to go up a little bit. You want to buy some leads.

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You want to reinvest, and little by little, I was like, "Hey, I hate working from

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home. I'm sure you hate working from home.

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Let's just get an office and see what happens," right?

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This office that we're in, we were half the size, and we actually knocked this wall

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down. But we got the office, and we're like, "Okay, now we have to win because

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that rent is coming up, and money's going to run out." So

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we started marketing, and little by little, I had one of the girls I

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knew really well back at Fundry, she said, "Hey, wherever you are, I want to go.

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I know your attitude. We're going to win." So I brought her on to do the op side of

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things.

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Mm-hmm.

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So it's us three in the office, building tables and stuff, and we're like, "Let's

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just build this thing."

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And what's cool about us is, as you know, I'm really big into content.

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Mm-hmm.

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So 90% of our team is all organic. They come, they see our stuff, they like our

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mission, what we're doing, and they're just like, "Hey, I want to be a part of

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that." So, some of my earlier guys, they've known me from the space.

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They were openers at other places, and they're like, "I want to go there.

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If you're there, you're behind it, I want to be a part of that."

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Mm-hmm.

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So it's kind of just little by little,

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people just kind of started reaching out and saying, "Hey, can I come?

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Can I come?"

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So it was very organic, it sounds like.

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Yes.

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A few of you got an office, and people started gravitating toward you

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that saw what you were doing, and they're like, "Hey, can I come work with you?"

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Yeah. I

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remember thinking, "I want to grow.

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Let me go on Indeed." And then we turned it on for four days, and we saw a few

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applicants. We turned it off, and we're like, "Ah, I don't like how this feels."

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Mm-hmm.

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And

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I always think this. I'm like, "How can I get people to come to me instead of me

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going to them?"

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Mm-hmm.

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And organic content is the way to do it.

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So that's exactly how we have our floor

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filled at this point.

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All right. So let's talk about that, organic content, because I follow you on

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Instagram. I've watched a lot of your videos.

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Are you saying that people are watching your content, and that's

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potentially how they find you and think about working here?

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Yeah, 100%. Yeah, everything's on organic content, and what happens is when you're

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yourself online, people see the message and they resonate with

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it.So what happens is you attract like-minded people to

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your office, and everybody just comes in either looking a little bit like you or

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having the same goals as you, or, "Hey, you sent that one message, I feel the same

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way," or, "Hey, you go to the gym every morning.

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I do that too." So it just attracts this type of people that are your

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brand. Like they're your kind, and it's really amazing.

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It's like they actually ask if they could work here-

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Yeah

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... versus like recruiting. They're just like, "Hey, can I come work for you?" type

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of thing.

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Yes. And my best people are, and this is a little crazy, but

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they always hit me with this massive message on my DM.

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Mm-hmm.

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"Hey."

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"Hey." Yeah.

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"Much respect. I see what you're doing. Super impressive.

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I want to be a part of it. Here's where I'm at. Here's why I want to join.

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Here's why I'll be a good candidate." And they always write me, like my best people

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always came in with a nice, respectful message.

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As you could imagine, I always get a lot of people saying, "What's commission?

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Can I go there?" Like very aggressive.

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Mm-hmm.

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But we filter through and try to bring the best-minded people to

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come work here.

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So when you first started on your own, I imagine you were the opener

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and the closer and everything in between and the data processor.

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Oh, everything.

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Right, and-

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Shopping deals

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... dealing with the lenders and the funders and all that stuff on your own.

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Now that you have couple dozen people in here, do you have

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separations? Are there some people who only do one thing and other people do a

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different thing? Or what's sort of the breakdown?

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Yeah. So our openers are really not interacting with the lenders as much.

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They're mainly just grabbing the people that are opting in, that are reaching out

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to us, collecting their docs, and then we have our closers interacting with the

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lenders, and it goes a really long way.

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And as I mentioned earlier, I come from the ISO rep world.

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I used to be an ISO rep at Fundry, and it's

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important to be in touch, right? So having that relationship with the ISO rep and

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the closers can go a really long way.

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Mm-hmm.

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To the point where if closers know, hey, I have a good relationship with

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X company, they just start cherry-picking and going that direction-

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Mm-hmm

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... because they know the process.

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They know what they're expecting, what the lenders are expecting, and

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it goes a long way. But our closers are the ones that are dealing with the lenders

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on the day-to-day.

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But are they dealing with the merchants, too?

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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So the closers, when the opener brings it in, then it gets assigned to a closer-

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Mm-hmm

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... and then they're handling that relationship to close that deal.

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So let's put aside the part where they're interacting with the funder or the

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lender.

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How do you feel about there being two people in

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touch with the merchant versus one? Is that a benefit?

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Is it confusing for some merchants?

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Like, what is con or did that work well?

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Like how does that go?

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I'll give you the pro and the con.

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Yeah.

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Right? Stats show that if you have one person for the full journey,

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there's a tighter relationship. So that's for sure.

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But

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I'm a big fan of good cop, bad cop. So what is that, right?

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Good cop is the person bringing in the docs. There's no bad news yet.

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You're just collecting everything, everything's going great.

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And then when the closer gets assigned, they got to break the offer,

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right? A lot of times, as you know, the customer's not super excited about 0 and

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49, right? So when you have an opener on the file, they're the good

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cop. So although the client's ghosting you or they're not excited about the

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deal, you can piggyback that first relationship and say, "Hey, can you help me get

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them on the phone? You had a good relationship with them, and let's just leverage

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each other to get that deal done."

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Mm-hmm.

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So it works really well. I just think that if closers are

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good at closing, they should be just narrow focused on that rather than grabbing

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docs. So have the most skilled people focus on what they do best, which is closing.

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Do most people start off as opener and-

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Yes

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... have the opportunity potentially to become a closer?

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Yep.

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Okay.

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Exactly that. So they start off opening, especially if they don't have industry

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experience.

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Mm-hmm.

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And we're super big on training. That's one thing, when people come at Redline,

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I'm like, "This is a school." Like you're literally in school.

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And we have meetings on Tuesday super thoroughly, and we're just teaching them the

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game from scratch.

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All right. So let me ask you a few questions because you just said like a good cop,

244
00:09:53.952 --> 00:09:54.632
bad cop.

245
00:09:54.672 --> 00:09:54.752
Yeah.

246
00:09:54.812 --> 00:09:57.012
Right? I've watched a bunch of your videos. Not all of them.

247
00:09:57.052 --> 00:09:58.792
You've been doing videos for a couple of years.

248
00:09:58.832 --> 00:09:58.952
Yeah.

249
00:09:58.992 --> 00:10:02.922
Right? So I've watched a bunch of the recent ones, and one of them, and I don't

250
00:10:02.952 --> 00:10:05.172
want to take it out of context, it said something about like don't give the

251
00:10:05.232 --> 00:10:06.592
merchant bad news.

252
00:10:06.672 --> 00:10:07.052
Yeah.

253
00:10:07.072 --> 00:10:09.132
Maybe don't start off the call with bad news.

254
00:10:09.752 --> 00:10:10.052
Can you

255
00:10:11.592 --> 00:10:14.512
explain that whole thing?

256
00:10:14.592 --> 00:10:17.772
Yeah. You can make someone buy by making them wrong.

257
00:10:17.812 --> 00:10:21.742
Like that's my thought process. So if you call a customer up, you know that

258
00:10:21.772 --> 00:10:25.142
the guy, let's say he wants 100 grand, and you're calling in with 50,

259
00:10:25.752 --> 00:10:29.722
right? You can't say, "Hey, unfortunately, I don't have 100, but

260
00:10:29.752 --> 00:10:33.352
here's my 50," because psychologically, it's going to make the person react and

261
00:10:33.392 --> 00:10:35.522
say, "Oh, I don't even want to... Don't even waste my time." Right?

262
00:10:35.532 --> 00:10:35.582
Mm-hmm.

263
00:10:35.872 --> 00:10:39.202
Like you're just starting off on the wrong foot. But if you say, "Hey, Mr.

264
00:10:39.392 --> 00:10:41.702
Customer, I have amazing news," right?

265
00:10:41.732 --> 00:10:44.302
Psychologically, the customer's going to be on the edge of the phone like, "What is

266
00:10:44.312 --> 00:10:44.322
it?"

267
00:10:44.332 --> 00:10:45.752
He's feeling good up until that moment.

268
00:10:45.812 --> 00:10:46.872
Yeah. "What are you going to say?"

269
00:10:46.932 --> 00:10:47.022
Mm-hmm.

270
00:10:47.092 --> 00:10:48.932
Right? So a lot of sales is about delivery.

271
00:10:49.052 --> 00:10:49.192
Mm-hmm.

272
00:10:49.492 --> 00:10:52.712
It's about frame, which I talk about a lot in my videos, but it's all about how you

273
00:10:52.752 --> 00:10:56.092
present it, because if the customer's not getting 100, it's for a reason.

274
00:10:56.392 --> 00:11:00.372
So I'm going to help you understand why we are where

275
00:11:00.412 --> 00:11:00.752
we are-

276
00:11:00.962 --> 00:11:01.032
Mm-hmm

277
00:11:01.072 --> 00:11:03.692
... and then we're going to figure out how to make the deal work for you.

278
00:11:03.732 --> 00:11:07.541
And I truly believe every single merchant is closable, and a lot of people think

279
00:11:07.572 --> 00:11:11.041
I'm wrong, but every single customer applying is closable.

280
00:11:12.172 --> 00:11:15.732
To that point, you did mention in one of the videos that look, they went through

281
00:11:15.772 --> 00:11:18.532
the effort of applying for funding somewhere.

282
00:11:18.812 --> 00:11:18.952
Yeah.

283
00:11:19.192 --> 00:11:22.192
Right? And maybe there's questions as how much they're looking for, or how much

284
00:11:22.212 --> 00:11:25.562
it's going to cost, or what the terms are, but they did indeed say, "Yes, I'm

285
00:11:25.592 --> 00:11:29.512
looking for it." And you said that they're going to get the money from

286
00:11:29.572 --> 00:11:29.972
somewhere.

287
00:11:30.212 --> 00:11:30.342
100%.

288
00:11:31.652 --> 00:11:34.432
A long time ago, not to insert myself into any of this, but-

289
00:11:34.472 --> 00:11:35.102
At all

290
00:11:35.102 --> 00:11:38.862
... a long time ago when I was in sales, I found that

291
00:11:38.952 --> 00:11:42.642
every merchant that had filled out a lead form, I kind of encountered the same

292
00:11:42.672 --> 00:11:45.902
thing. They might tell me why they didn't like something I had,

293
00:11:46.592 --> 00:11:49.632
but they did end up getting something and going somewhere.

294
00:11:49.692 --> 00:11:52.792
So it kind of feeds into what you're saying, like every deal is closable.

295
00:11:53.182 --> 00:11:55.642
And so what was happening for me is I wasn't closing them-

296
00:11:55.872 --> 00:11:55.912
Yeah

297
00:11:55.922 --> 00:11:57.972
... because they were actually getting it from somewhere.

298
00:11:57.992 --> 00:11:58.372
Mm-hmm.

299
00:11:58.452 --> 00:12:02.292
And it wasn't always the rate that was necessarily better than mine or anything.

300
00:12:02.332 --> 00:12:04.092
There was a lot of other elements to it.

301
00:12:04.152 --> 00:12:04.832
So

302
00:12:07.472 --> 00:12:08.852
every deal is closable.

303
00:12:09.272 --> 00:12:13.118
I want to add to that.I would say in my

304
00:12:13.208 --> 00:12:15.248
system, 90% of the people applying are getting the money.

305
00:12:15.628 --> 00:12:17.128
It's just that we hope it's with me.

306
00:12:17.248 --> 00:12:17.268
Mm-hmm.

307
00:12:17.468 --> 00:12:19.388
We hope it's with you as a salesperson.

308
00:12:19.868 --> 00:12:23.808
So what I love to teach my team is the person that wins that deal is

309
00:12:23.828 --> 00:12:25.248
the person that bridged the gap the most.

310
00:12:25.428 --> 00:12:28.428
Either bridge the gap or help the customer understand something that they maybe

311
00:12:28.488 --> 00:12:32.428
didn't see with you. Because I can't tell you how many times reps lose

312
00:12:32.468 --> 00:12:36.258
deals to worse, like worse offers, shorter terms, worse

313
00:12:36.328 --> 00:12:39.928
dollar amount, and at the end of the day, it's because they were able to bridge

314
00:12:39.948 --> 00:12:43.908
some sort of gap. The customer clicked and said, "Oh, okay, so I am going to get an

315
00:12:44.008 --> 00:12:47.028
ROI if I take XYZ. Okay, that makes sense. You know what?

316
00:12:47.088 --> 00:12:47.908
Get me the contracts."

317
00:12:47.968 --> 00:12:48.138
Mm-hmm.

318
00:12:48.268 --> 00:12:52.148
So it's not always about who has the best offer, it's who can bridge the gap the

319
00:12:52.228 --> 00:12:52.588
most.

320
00:12:52.648 --> 00:12:53.028
Yeah.

321
00:12:53.108 --> 00:12:55.568
And whoever can do that is effective.

322
00:12:55.708 --> 00:12:57.908
There's a few techniques that I just kind of picked up on.

323
00:12:58.128 --> 00:13:00.908
One was you said you should ask for the merchant's budget.

324
00:13:01.248 --> 00:13:01.368
Yeah.

325
00:13:01.448 --> 00:13:02.208
Does that sound right?

326
00:13:02.728 --> 00:13:02.888
Yep.

327
00:13:03.668 --> 00:13:05.428
What's the approach there?

328
00:13:05.928 --> 00:13:06.217
I'll give you-

329
00:13:06.248 --> 00:13:07.598
You don't have to give away all your secret sauce, but-

330
00:13:07.608 --> 00:13:10.488
No, I'll give the sauce. I put out a lot of sauce online.

331
00:13:12.028 --> 00:13:15.968
I'll tell you this. A lot of people message me about the customer,

332
00:13:16.158 --> 00:13:19.148
"I always get these bad offers." They always tell me, "I always get these bad

333
00:13:19.208 --> 00:13:22.588
offers. I feel like my offer's not competitive enough," or, "It's so expensive,

334
00:13:22.648 --> 00:13:26.348
Nicole. How do you bridge that?" And I'm like, "First of all, you're believing it.

335
00:13:26.448 --> 00:13:29.078
If you believe that that's the case, you're going to have a very hard time selling

336
00:13:29.108 --> 00:13:29.208
it."

337
00:13:29.388 --> 00:13:29.438
Mm-hmm.

338
00:13:29.438 --> 00:13:32.068
Because if you don't believe in the offers you're getting, they're not going to

339
00:13:32.088 --> 00:13:33.088
believe you. That's number one.

340
00:13:33.408 --> 00:13:34.408
They're going to hear it in your voice.

341
00:13:34.948 --> 00:13:38.178
Yeah. If you're coming off as like, "Ugh, let's go over what I have,"

342
00:13:38.908 --> 00:13:39.728
they're not going to buy.

343
00:13:40.868 --> 00:13:43.398
But what I would say is... Sorry, what was the question?

344
00:13:43.448 --> 00:13:44.807
I'm just going off tangent.

345
00:13:45.068 --> 00:13:45.768
Merchant budget.

346
00:13:45.988 --> 00:13:46.528
Budget. Yes.

347
00:13:46.558 --> 00:13:50.468
Yeah. So I think it feeds into if every

348
00:13:50.508 --> 00:13:51.918
merchant is closable at the end of the day-

349
00:13:52.128 --> 00:13:52.138
Yes

350
00:13:52.138 --> 00:13:55.568
... there are certain ways to kind of attack their problem, and one

351
00:13:55.688 --> 00:13:57.708
is assessing what their budget is.

352
00:13:57.788 --> 00:14:01.588
Yeah. So, a lot of times when we get our customer applications,

353
00:14:02.128 --> 00:14:03.408
the requested amount is very high.

354
00:14:04.468 --> 00:14:08.248
Very rarely you see a customer, let's say, making 50K a month, wanting 50, or 40,

355
00:14:08.268 --> 00:14:10.708
or 30. They make 50, they want 250.

356
00:14:11.648 --> 00:14:15.498
So what I like to help the customer understand is, okay, right now our offer's 50.

357
00:14:15.848 --> 00:14:19.488
And you're telling me that you don't like it because the term is too short.

358
00:14:19.548 --> 00:14:22.908
I'm going to take that same exact payment, I'm going to multiply it by five because

359
00:14:23.008 --> 00:14:26.168
I want you to see that I'd rather give you 250. And it's true.

360
00:14:26.348 --> 00:14:28.568
Imagine me not wanting to give you more money.

361
00:14:28.628 --> 00:14:28.768
Mm-hmm.

362
00:14:28.788 --> 00:14:30.328
We're salespeople. It benefits us.

363
00:14:30.828 --> 00:14:34.168
But what happens is if you multiply the payment by five, you're going to get an

364
00:14:34.248 --> 00:14:37.008
astronomical payment, and it's going to take them out of business before they can

365
00:14:37.068 --> 00:14:40.968
even put it to work. So I actually like to show my customers

366
00:14:40.988 --> 00:14:42.628
what it would look like if we got the approval.

367
00:14:43.128 --> 00:14:45.688
Because that way, they start saying, "Oh, oh, are you crazy?

368
00:14:45.748 --> 00:14:48.528
Yeah, I'm not paying that." And I say, "Perfect." So it's a budget thing.

369
00:14:48.748 --> 00:14:48.938
Mm-hmm.

370
00:14:49.368 --> 00:14:53.257
What dollar amount do you see yourself paying per week that

371
00:14:53.288 --> 00:14:55.368
you feel you can afford? And I give scenarios.

372
00:14:55.408 --> 00:14:55.418
Mm-hmm.

373
00:14:55.458 --> 00:14:58.408
So, right now we're at two grand. You're telling me it's a lot.

374
00:14:58.528 --> 00:14:59.688
250, forget about that.

375
00:14:59.728 --> 00:14:59.928
Mm-hmm.

376
00:15:00.088 --> 00:15:04.078
But if I can get it to 1,500 or 1,000 bucks, do

377
00:15:04.108 --> 00:15:08.097
you feel more comfortable there? And a lot of times they'll say, "Yeah." You

378
00:15:08.108 --> 00:15:11.518
know what I mean? So people think that the objection is dollar amount.

379
00:15:11.648 --> 00:15:15.428
In reality, it's the customer was never able to swing that payment to begin with.

380
00:15:15.468 --> 00:15:15.658
Mm-hmm.

381
00:15:15.658 --> 00:15:19.408
And if you focus your calls around that, what they could afford, you're going to

382
00:15:19.448 --> 00:15:20.088
get a lot of deals.

383
00:15:20.688 --> 00:15:24.348
One thing you mentioned was you say to avoid using terms like

384
00:15:24.358 --> 00:15:24.988
"Trust me"-

385
00:15:25.288 --> 00:15:25.368
Yeah

386
00:15:25.448 --> 00:15:27.828
... or, "I'll try to."

387
00:15:28.908 --> 00:15:32.488
Is that counterintuitive? If you say, "Trust me,"

388
00:15:34.048 --> 00:15:37.708
you would think, "I'm asking for trust," but if you say it actually

389
00:15:37.728 --> 00:15:41.128
communicates you should be suspicious of me saying it?

390
00:15:42.308 --> 00:15:42.368
Yeah. I

391
00:15:43.888 --> 00:15:45.988
hate words like "Trust me," "Unfortunately."

392
00:15:46.108 --> 00:15:47.168
Yeah.

393
00:15:48.008 --> 00:15:51.008
What I like to preach is we're dealing with business owners.

394
00:15:51.048 --> 00:15:51.198
Mm-hmm.

395
00:15:51.228 --> 00:15:52.988
These guys are going through so many adversities.

396
00:15:53.028 --> 00:15:56.688
Business owners are dealing with craziness, payroll being due, equipment.

397
00:15:57.528 --> 00:16:00.428
There's so much madness, and if you run a business you know.

398
00:16:00.648 --> 00:16:00.778
Mm-hmm.

399
00:16:01.308 --> 00:16:01.988
So I

400
00:16:03.108 --> 00:16:05.448
always tell my team, those guys are sophisticated.

401
00:16:05.488 --> 00:16:05.658
Mm-hmm.

402
00:16:05.678 --> 00:16:06.808
They're dealing with stuff. So,

403
00:16:07.628 --> 00:16:10.528
if you're learning, you don't want to say things like, "Trust me," or you never

404
00:16:10.548 --> 00:16:12.308
want to act like you know their business more than them.

405
00:16:12.708 --> 00:16:14.108
You don't want to go in there, "Oh, trucking?

406
00:16:14.168 --> 00:16:16.558
Yeah, I know," and act like you know their business. You don't.

407
00:16:16.568 --> 00:16:16.678
Mm-hmm.

408
00:16:16.768 --> 00:16:19.758
So the best thing you could do is come off as a professional and just give them

409
00:16:19.788 --> 00:16:21.508
your professional advice, which is what you know.

410
00:16:21.728 --> 00:16:21.828
Yeah.

411
00:16:22.108 --> 00:16:25.008
You're behind a screen. You're reading what's coming in and what's getting

412
00:16:25.048 --> 00:16:27.148
declined. Give them your best foot forward.

413
00:16:27.228 --> 00:16:29.338
That way, they understand why it's getting priced that way.

414
00:16:29.338 --> 00:16:29.528
Mm-hmm.

415
00:16:29.748 --> 00:16:31.828
If you can bridge that gap, you're going to have success.

416
00:16:32.128 --> 00:16:35.988
You're saying they can sniff you out if you're kind of acting like you know

417
00:16:36.028 --> 00:16:38.818
their business and you don't. Let's say you're young and you're 20 years old-

418
00:16:38.868 --> 00:16:38.948
Yeah

419
00:16:39.088 --> 00:16:42.598
... and you've never even been in a truck, but you're talking to a trucker and

420
00:16:42.628 --> 00:16:46.308
you're trying to pretend. That person's probably going to feel like-

421
00:16:47.188 --> 00:16:47.828
Yeah

422
00:16:47.988 --> 00:16:50.348
... "Can I listen to this person when they're trying to pretend

423
00:16:51.228 --> 00:16:52.028
that they get me?"

424
00:16:52.228 --> 00:16:52.368
Yeah.

425
00:16:52.568 --> 00:16:54.268
Whereas maybe don't even try to pretend.

426
00:16:54.508 --> 00:16:58.368
Yeah. And there's so much tech out there nowadays. Everyone's using ChatGPT.

427
00:16:58.508 --> 00:16:58.758
Mm-hmm.

428
00:16:58.808 --> 00:16:59.688
Business owners know.

429
00:16:59.848 --> 00:17:00.168
Yeah.

430
00:17:00.248 --> 00:17:03.208
I'm sure you get pitched all the time. I get pitched all the time.

431
00:17:03.448 --> 00:17:06.469
When people call me up and it's like, you're pitching me.

432
00:17:06.608 --> 00:17:06.628
Mm-hmm.

433
00:17:06.668 --> 00:17:10.648
So the more authentic you can be and the more resourceful you can be, the

434
00:17:10.709 --> 00:17:11.689
more you're going to get more done.

435
00:17:11.898 --> 00:17:14.028
And back to your point, don't say, "Trust me."

436
00:17:14.508 --> 00:17:14.518
Mm-hmm.

437
00:17:15.568 --> 00:17:17.988
I'd rather not trust you. If I was a business owner, I don't want to trust you.

438
00:17:18.348 --> 00:17:18.528
Yeah.

439
00:17:18.568 --> 00:17:19.768
So it just rubs off the wrong way.

440
00:17:19.908 --> 00:17:20.128
Mm-hmm.

441
00:17:20.449 --> 00:17:21.908
Give them your best professional advice.

442
00:17:22.189 --> 00:17:25.828
Show them why, how, and how you can help them accomplish the goal.

443
00:17:26.508 --> 00:17:28.728
So in today's world, we're all very busy.

444
00:17:29.128 --> 00:17:29.488
Yes.

445
00:17:30.028 --> 00:17:33.548
And if you call up the merchant, you might find that they're also very busy.

446
00:17:33.708 --> 00:17:33.808
Yeah.

447
00:17:34.408 --> 00:17:34.688
But-

448
00:17:36.568 --> 00:17:36.988
Big buts.

449
00:17:37.048 --> 00:17:37.308
But-

450
00:17:37.608 --> 00:17:37.768
Big buts

451
00:17:37.788 --> 00:17:41.168
... if you contact them with certain key phrases, you'll find out they weren't

452
00:17:41.228 --> 00:17:42.108
actually that busy.

453
00:17:42.228 --> 00:17:42.618
Yeah. I love this.

454
00:17:42.648 --> 00:17:44.348
Can you speak a little bit about that?

455
00:17:44.448 --> 00:17:45.148
Yes. I

456
00:17:46.088 --> 00:17:48.628
like to use the word violence in a good way.

457
00:17:49.408 --> 00:17:51.988
So when customers tell you they're busy,

458
00:17:52.928 --> 00:17:56.008
slight chance they might be, but I always take it to the crazy

459
00:17:56.028 --> 00:17:59.608
extremes. If I called a customer and said, "Hey, you just

460
00:17:59.648 --> 00:18:03.288
got free money for 10 years. Don't pay me back.

461
00:18:03.508 --> 00:18:05.888
I'm just going to wire it to you," would you think they'll be busy?

462
00:18:06.368 --> 00:18:07.488
No. They're going to call you right away.

463
00:18:07.708 --> 00:18:09.068
Right. So it's a priority.

464
00:18:10.388 --> 00:18:13.348
The faster as a salesperson you can realize that someone's not sold, the better.

465
00:18:13.908 --> 00:18:17.628
So if I'm pitching a deal, everything's going great, they're like,

466
00:18:17.748 --> 00:18:21.552
"Yep, call me back. I'm going to be busy."You just have to quickly understand,

467
00:18:21.752 --> 00:18:24.532
ah, they're not sold. So if you know that, then you have to use

468
00:18:24.572 --> 00:18:27.752
techniques on the phone to kind of figure out why.

469
00:18:27.792 --> 00:18:30.422
That way, when you get off the phone, you're working a deal for them.

470
00:18:30.762 --> 00:18:30.932
Mm-hmm.

471
00:18:30.952 --> 00:18:31.472
Does that make sense?

472
00:18:31.632 --> 00:18:31.932
Yeah.

473
00:18:31.992 --> 00:18:35.572
So, don't take these surface level, "I'm busy." Just kind of get to the root

474
00:18:35.612 --> 00:18:37.572
cause. Ah, they're probably not sold.

475
00:18:37.672 --> 00:18:40.322
What can I do to re-engage the customer to make that deal work for them?

476
00:18:40.362 --> 00:18:40.592
Mm-hmm.

477
00:18:40.832 --> 00:18:42.712
That's kind of the root cause of the issue.

478
00:18:42.732 --> 00:18:45.112
The faster you can understand that, the better you can get back to the drawing

479
00:18:45.192 --> 00:18:45.492
board.

480
00:18:45.572 --> 00:18:48.432
So "they're busy" is really they're hesitant about something.

481
00:18:48.442 --> 00:18:48.442
Yes.

482
00:18:48.452 --> 00:18:49.892
And you need to find out what that thing is.

483
00:18:49.992 --> 00:18:53.452
Yep, and really good salespeople, they love

484
00:18:53.672 --> 00:18:54.212
objections.

485
00:18:54.292 --> 00:18:54.421
Mm-hmm.

486
00:18:54.932 --> 00:18:57.472
When I hear rejection on the phone, I actually get excited.

487
00:18:57.492 --> 00:18:57.632
Mm-hmm.

488
00:18:57.692 --> 00:19:00.472
Because I'm so happy that I get to overcome that with you.

489
00:19:00.642 --> 00:19:00.762
Mm-hmm.

490
00:19:01.012 --> 00:19:04.712
Versus getting scared, thinking you're going to lose the deal if you say something

491
00:19:04.732 --> 00:19:06.672
wrong. No, no, we like that, right?

492
00:19:06.712 --> 00:19:06.741
Mm-hmm.

493
00:19:06.872 --> 00:19:09.712
So they say, "Hey, Nicole, I'm going to be busy.

494
00:19:09.732 --> 00:19:13.602
Call me back in two days." I was like, "Okay, before you go out for two days,

495
00:19:14.012 --> 00:19:17.802
if it was free, right now, never have to pay back, would you take it?"

496
00:19:17.972 --> 00:19:18.122
Mm-hmm.

497
00:19:18.182 --> 00:19:20.982
"Yes." I'm like, "Okay, then there's something here that you're not liking."

498
00:19:21.192 --> 00:19:21.312
Yeah.

499
00:19:21.362 --> 00:19:25.232
"So before you go away for two days, let's figure out exactly what it is, so

500
00:19:25.452 --> 00:19:26.812
in two days I can call you back with the good news.

501
00:19:27.032 --> 00:19:29.612
Cool?" "Yeah, that sounds a little better." And then we'll kind of get into the

502
00:19:29.692 --> 00:19:32.092
dance, and next thing you know, deal funds that same day.

503
00:19:32.352 --> 00:19:36.112
Is this similar to when the merchant says, "I need to run it by my accountant or my

504
00:19:36.292 --> 00:19:39.992
spouse," and you feel like they're telling you that, and you might say,

505
00:19:40.392 --> 00:19:44.112
"Oh, okay, well, that sounds fine." But maybe you should also kind of be

506
00:19:44.192 --> 00:19:45.822
saying like, you

507
00:19:47.032 --> 00:19:50.992
use that as an opportunity to grab one last remaining piece of information out

508
00:19:51.032 --> 00:19:51.072
of-

509
00:19:51.122 --> 00:19:51.122
Yes

510
00:19:51.122 --> 00:19:52.502
... because it sounds like hesitation in a way, doesn't it?

511
00:19:52.552 --> 00:19:56.382
It is, yeah. For me, that, in my head, it registers

512
00:19:56.452 --> 00:19:57.862
as doubt, right?

513
00:19:58.422 --> 00:19:58.422
Mm-hmm.

514
00:19:58.472 --> 00:20:02.432
So I'm a big fan of leaning into it. So I always say in my

515
00:20:02.452 --> 00:20:03.412
videos, "Lean into that."

516
00:20:03.572 --> 00:20:03.702
Mm-hmm.

517
00:20:04.052 --> 00:20:06.992
If someone tells me, "Hey, I'm going to run it by my wife," I would be like, "You

518
00:20:07.072 --> 00:20:10.832
absolutely should." Because imagine not consulting with the person that helps you

519
00:20:10.872 --> 00:20:11.332
out the most.

520
00:20:11.352 --> 00:20:11.752
Mm-hmm.

521
00:20:11.792 --> 00:20:14.592
Now, I'm not convinced they're going to love it. And you know why?

522
00:20:14.652 --> 00:20:16.412
Because they don't have the same context as we do.

523
00:20:16.592 --> 00:20:16.632
Mm-hmm.

524
00:20:16.672 --> 00:20:20.632
So we can do two things. If you really want to take some time and think

525
00:20:20.732 --> 00:20:24.242
about it, we can merge them, and I could give them the same context, or they're

526
00:20:24.292 --> 00:20:25.872
just going to hate what we have to offer.

527
00:20:25.892 --> 00:20:26.022
Mm-hmm.

528
00:20:26.372 --> 00:20:28.392
So if you hate it, they're going to hate it.

529
00:20:28.451 --> 00:20:31.192
What can we do right now so we could tweak it and make it work for you?

530
00:20:31.212 --> 00:20:34.241
Again, another opportunity to just attack it while you're on the phone.

531
00:20:34.972 --> 00:20:38.402
So instead of shying away and saying, "I'm scared, let me let him off the hook,"

532
00:20:38.832 --> 00:20:39.392
lean into it.

533
00:20:39.652 --> 00:20:39.801
Mm-hmm.

534
00:20:39.992 --> 00:20:42.452
You absolutely should. Imagine not talking to your wife. That's insane.

535
00:20:42.632 --> 00:20:43.612
You should want to talk to her.

536
00:20:44.012 --> 00:20:44.102
Yeah.

537
00:20:44.301 --> 00:20:46.922
But she's going to hate it, so let's just get to that root cause and figure out how

538
00:20:46.952 --> 00:20:48.442
we can help you out. You know what I mean?

539
00:20:48.872 --> 00:20:49.112
For sure.

540
00:20:49.132 --> 00:20:50.591
So I've gotten really,

541
00:20:52.172 --> 00:20:54.472
I would say, just cutthroat and very human-like.

542
00:20:54.532 --> 00:20:56.352
I try to relate to the human and say, "Hey, I'm human."

543
00:20:56.552 --> 00:20:56.692
Mm-hmm.

544
00:20:56.702 --> 00:20:59.512
"I'm not trying to pitch you here. Just trying to make sure it could work."

545
00:20:59.521 --> 00:20:59.521
Yeah.

546
00:20:59.521 --> 00:21:01.792
"And if you're hesitant, I don't want to push that on you, but what is it?

547
00:21:01.852 --> 00:21:02.982
So I can make it right."

548
00:21:03.292 --> 00:21:06.532
Yeah. It's almost like if you were trying to convince them not to talk to a spouse,

549
00:21:06.592 --> 00:21:09.662
that might come across the complete opposite way, right?

550
00:21:09.672 --> 00:21:09.812
Yeah.

551
00:21:09.832 --> 00:21:12.912
Whereas if you lean into it, it could work to your benefit.

552
00:21:12.952 --> 00:21:14.992
Yeah. They actually say, "You know what?

553
00:21:15.132 --> 00:21:16.092
That's different."

554
00:21:16.172 --> 00:21:16.362
Mm-hmm.

555
00:21:16.362 --> 00:21:19.092
"Damn, she wants me to? Yeah, absolutely." And it's true.

556
00:21:19.552 --> 00:21:23.032
I always take the position of the customer, and I tell my team all the time, "They

557
00:21:23.092 --> 00:21:24.081
should want what's best for them."

558
00:21:24.112 --> 00:21:24.122
Mm-hmm.

559
00:21:24.262 --> 00:21:26.012
"They should want the best rate. They should shop."

560
00:21:26.132 --> 00:21:26.142
Yeah.

561
00:21:26.162 --> 00:21:26.422
Imagine

562
00:21:27.572 --> 00:21:29.172
you telling them, "Hey, don't shop.

563
00:21:29.452 --> 00:21:30.232
I'm the best of the best."

564
00:21:30.332 --> 00:21:30.452
Yeah.

565
00:21:30.552 --> 00:21:32.562
I mean, imagine that. They want the best deal. They should.

566
00:21:32.612 --> 00:21:36.192
So I always appreciate it, and I say, "Hey, you should check out your

567
00:21:36.252 --> 00:21:38.012
options. I'm positive I'm going to be the best."

568
00:21:38.032 --> 00:21:38.042
Mm-hmm.

569
00:21:38.152 --> 00:21:41.652
"I want to win your business, but it's crazy for me to tell you otherwise."

570
00:21:41.692 --> 00:21:41.872
Yeah.

571
00:21:42.032 --> 00:21:44.792
It's the reality. And then what it does to the human, it's like,

572
00:21:45.612 --> 00:21:47.332
"Oh, okay. That's interesting."

573
00:21:47.362 --> 00:21:47.362
Mm-hmm.

574
00:21:47.372 --> 00:21:49.832
And then they kind of want to work with you, and they respect you a little more.

575
00:21:49.872 --> 00:21:53.232
And I bet you the spouse is going to ask questions that are a little bit different

576
00:21:53.252 --> 00:21:56.352
than what they've been getting. They're going to say, "Tell me about each of these

577
00:21:56.372 --> 00:21:59.952
people. Can you trust them?" And then they might be able to say, "Well, Nicole

578
00:22:00.032 --> 00:22:02.092
actually told me that I should be speaking to you."

579
00:22:02.352 --> 00:22:02.362
Yeah.

580
00:22:02.372 --> 00:22:04.312
And that person's going to think, like, "Oh, okay, that's good."

581
00:22:04.592 --> 00:22:04.902
They're like, "Really?" Yeah.

582
00:22:04.902 --> 00:22:05.312
"They value

583
00:22:06.112 --> 00:22:07.831
my input in this whole conversation."

584
00:22:07.972 --> 00:22:07.982
Yes.

585
00:22:07.982 --> 00:22:11.021
"I'm glad they told you to check with me." I'd feel good about that person.

586
00:22:11.092 --> 00:22:13.592
It's almost like a subtle signal-

587
00:22:13.932 --> 00:22:14.032
Yeah

588
00:22:14.072 --> 00:22:16.982
... for the other person who you haven't spoken with,

589
00:22:17.552 --> 00:22:20.812
that you value their input.

590
00:22:20.872 --> 00:22:21.492
Yeah, and imagine-

591
00:22:21.542 --> 00:22:22.332
You know what I mean? And you made

592
00:22:23.152 --> 00:22:25.652
them feel important in this part of the deal.

593
00:22:25.992 --> 00:22:27.982
And imagine what the other salespeople are telling them, "Oh, no, no, no."

594
00:22:27.982 --> 00:22:28.872
"No, you need to get this done today.

595
00:22:28.892 --> 00:22:29.632
You don't need to talk yet."

596
00:22:29.642 --> 00:22:33.422
Yeah, exactly. So when sales is repetitive and

597
00:22:33.572 --> 00:22:36.032
you know what's in the market, you've got to figure out a way to stand out.

598
00:22:36.051 --> 00:22:36.212
Mm-hmm.

599
00:22:36.592 --> 00:22:40.371
And I imagine that my competitors are probably like, "Oh, but don't..."

600
00:22:41.312 --> 00:22:43.842
They're just going, they're panicking, and they're like, "Oh, that's not the right

601
00:22:43.872 --> 00:22:46.362
thing." Meanwhile, I'm here like, "No, no, you absolutely should.

602
00:22:46.392 --> 00:22:47.192
I mean, imagine not."

603
00:22:47.332 --> 00:22:47.342
Mm-hmm.

604
00:22:47.412 --> 00:22:50.612
You should want to get the feedback, but I also do want to make sure that you

605
00:22:50.652 --> 00:22:54.622
understand and they have the same context, because if you know one thing and let's

606
00:22:54.652 --> 00:22:56.872
say your spouse doesn't, it's not going to work.

607
00:22:56.892 --> 00:22:56.951
Mm-hmm.

608
00:22:57.012 --> 00:22:58.672
Let's just be real here. It's not going to work.

609
00:22:58.712 --> 00:23:02.682
So I try to be as resourceful as possible, and then we even get the spouse on the

610
00:23:02.732 --> 00:23:04.632
phone sometimes if we need to.

611
00:23:05.352 --> 00:23:05.382
Well-

612
00:23:05.392 --> 00:23:06.432
Just to kind of get to that root.

613
00:23:06.692 --> 00:23:07.792
Yeah, if you're willing to do that-

614
00:23:08.132 --> 00:23:08.362
Yeah, yeah

615
00:23:08.362 --> 00:23:09.312
... it probably makes them feel good.

616
00:23:09.352 --> 00:23:10.492
Like, "Oh, yeah, put him on the call."

617
00:23:10.512 --> 00:23:14.452
Put him on, yeah. So we want to bridge the gap and always, always just get to that

618
00:23:14.472 --> 00:23:15.012
root cause.

619
00:23:15.072 --> 00:23:15.242
Mm-hmm.

620
00:23:15.972 --> 00:23:19.232
The best customers are the ones that are fully, fully, fully sold.

621
00:23:19.252 --> 00:23:21.492
They've seen the numbers a few times. It takes a few days.

622
00:23:21.802 --> 00:23:24.562
They're trying to make sure it fits, and then when it fits, the performance is

623
00:23:24.592 --> 00:23:25.012
amazing.

624
00:23:25.072 --> 00:23:25.272
Mm-hmm.

625
00:23:26.522 --> 00:23:26.522
Yeah.

626
00:23:26.572 --> 00:23:28.842
I'm going to ask you about your sales floor, because when I came in here-

627
00:23:29.072 --> 00:23:29.192
Yeah

628
00:23:29.532 --> 00:23:30.832
... I noticed everyone was standing up.

629
00:23:31.052 --> 00:23:31.232
Yeah.

630
00:23:31.992 --> 00:23:33.692
And there was some music in the background.

631
00:23:33.722 --> 00:23:34.082
Mm-hmm.

632
00:23:34.312 --> 00:23:37.372
I said, "Everyone's really like, let's go and do this."

633
00:23:37.492 --> 00:23:40.772
Is it normal? Do people stand up all day?

634
00:23:40.912 --> 00:23:44.692
Is it a temporary thing? Or what's the atmosphere and protocol

635
00:23:44.752 --> 00:23:45.092
here?

636
00:23:45.132 --> 00:23:47.492
Yeah. So we do power hours, we call them.

637
00:23:47.552 --> 00:23:50.732
So first hour, middle of the day, and then end of day.

638
00:23:51.292 --> 00:23:54.192
Sometimes just beginning and end. Sometimes we do middle.

639
00:23:54.912 --> 00:23:57.972
But I love that because we don't like people slouching

640
00:23:59.072 --> 00:24:02.912
down when they're pitching, pitching like this. So it just brings energy.

641
00:24:03.072 --> 00:24:03.272
Mm-hmm.

642
00:24:03.632 --> 00:24:05.292
It also just sets the tone for the culture.

643
00:24:05.512 --> 00:24:09.172
We love when we hire new people, and it's like the first hour,

644
00:24:09.692 --> 00:24:12.972
two new reps are in, 9:00 hits, and everybody's like, "Hey, hey, get up."

645
00:24:13.002 --> 00:24:13.952
Mm-hmm.

646
00:24:14.288 --> 00:24:14.928
I love it.

647
00:24:15.828 --> 00:24:19.308
We have wireless headsets so the guys can pace around, move around, and that's why

648
00:24:19.348 --> 00:24:20.308
everybody has those standing desks.

649
00:24:20.528 --> 00:24:20.618
Mm-hmm.

650
00:24:20.758 --> 00:24:24.708
I just always loved the idea of being able to stand, walk around, flow, think on

651
00:24:24.748 --> 00:24:25.308
your feet.

652
00:24:25.328 --> 00:24:25.518
Mm-hmm.

653
00:24:25.708 --> 00:24:27.458
I feel like it helps sales-

654
00:24:27.578 --> 00:24:27.578
Yeah

655
00:24:27.578 --> 00:24:28.488
... like the sales guys.

656
00:24:28.528 --> 00:24:31.878
Yeah, for sure. There's an old saying, I think, "Motion creates emotion."

657
00:24:32.028 --> 00:24:32.068
Yes.

658
00:24:32.088 --> 00:24:32.438
You know what I mean?

659
00:24:32.748 --> 00:24:36.588
Yeah. I've worked at places where we've had to sit. Back at Delta, we all sat.

660
00:24:36.628 --> 00:24:36.818
Mm-hmm.

661
00:24:37.308 --> 00:24:39.808
It's not bad, but when you stand-

662
00:24:39.928 --> 00:24:39.978
Mm-hmm

663
00:24:40.008 --> 00:24:41.847
... it's like, man, you feel good.

664
00:24:42.008 --> 00:24:42.068
Mm-hmm.

665
00:24:42.088 --> 00:24:44.368
You pace around, you get your brain flowing.

666
00:24:44.488 --> 00:24:44.498
Mm-hmm.

667
00:24:44.588 --> 00:24:45.388
You're thinking about ideas.

668
00:24:45.448 --> 00:24:46.408
You're moving around.

669
00:24:46.448 --> 00:24:46.597
Yeah.

670
00:24:46.597 --> 00:24:47.488
You're doing this deal.

671
00:24:48.448 --> 00:24:49.588
You get excited, and sometimes-

672
00:24:49.628 --> 00:24:49.637
Yeah

673
00:24:49.637 --> 00:24:50.548
... you hear them getting excited.

674
00:24:50.578 --> 00:24:50.578
Yeah.

675
00:24:50.628 --> 00:24:52.488
So I just like being able to flow.

676
00:24:52.528 --> 00:24:52.648
Mm-hmm.

677
00:24:53.268 --> 00:24:54.688
Also a big fan of natural lighting.

678
00:24:54.848 --> 00:24:54.878
Mm-hmm.

679
00:24:54.948 --> 00:24:55.748
So just lighting's in.

680
00:24:55.808 --> 00:24:56.908
It's very bright in this room.

681
00:24:57.148 --> 00:25:00.388
Yeah. Natural lighting flowing, good energy, good vibes.

682
00:25:00.688 --> 00:25:03.868
There's even music on in here now. Can the merchants hear that?

683
00:25:04.068 --> 00:25:04.448
No, no.

684
00:25:05.458 --> 00:25:05.458
Okay.

685
00:25:05.458 --> 00:25:08.748
Actually, when we first started, before we got the noise

686
00:25:08.768 --> 00:25:11.288
cancellation, we were in a smaller spot.

687
00:25:11.328 --> 00:25:14.908
We were half the office, and we never knew there was an

688
00:25:14.968 --> 00:25:16.228
AI noise cancelator.

689
00:25:16.278 --> 00:25:16.428
Mm-hmm.

690
00:25:16.568 --> 00:25:20.178
So we did have the music on, and a lot of customers were like, "Hey, where are

691
00:25:20.288 --> 00:25:22.668
you?" And then as soon as we heard that, we were like, "Man, we need to figure out

692
00:25:22.708 --> 00:25:24.218
a way to..." And we didn't know it was that loud-

693
00:25:24.278 --> 00:25:24.278
Mm-hmm

694
00:25:24.278 --> 00:25:25.588
... but we were playing the calls back, and we're like-

695
00:25:25.628 --> 00:25:28.128
So you've been playing music as a regular thing in the office.

696
00:25:28.188 --> 00:25:28.438
Yeah, yeah.

697
00:25:28.488 --> 00:25:29.128
Is that for energy?

698
00:25:29.368 --> 00:25:29.838
For energy, yeah.

699
00:25:29.838 --> 00:25:30.288
Okay.

700
00:25:30.318 --> 00:25:31.508
And the music we play is not

701
00:25:32.368 --> 00:25:35.888
crazy music. We like to put very subtle beats or

702
00:25:36.008 --> 00:25:37.768
something to kind of keep the energies going.

703
00:25:37.868 --> 00:25:38.028
Yeah.

704
00:25:38.388 --> 00:25:41.178
But we were playing calls back, and we hear the music in the background.

705
00:25:41.178 --> 00:25:41.468
You could hear it in the calls.

706
00:25:41.508 --> 00:25:44.098
Yeah. We were like, "Oh, no, no, no, no." So we got noise cancellation.

707
00:25:44.098 --> 00:25:45.308
Yeah. The merchant can be like, "Where are you right now?"

708
00:25:45.388 --> 00:25:45.688
Yeah.

709
00:25:45.898 --> 00:25:48.268
"I'm at the club right now."

710
00:25:48.328 --> 00:25:50.788
So when people start, we're like, "Okay, well, we have a noise cancellation."

711
00:25:50.808 --> 00:25:50.948
Yeah.

712
00:25:51.208 --> 00:25:53.148
You don't want to sound like you're in a club.

713
00:25:53.468 --> 00:25:55.748
So your reps can hear the music, but the merchants can't hear it now.

714
00:25:56.028 --> 00:25:59.238
Yeah, the merchants can't hear it. It's super crisp. Only their voice back.

715
00:25:59.248 --> 00:26:02.728
And this is a technology. This is a hardware technology? Or how does this happen?

716
00:26:02.908 --> 00:26:03.608
It's an app.

717
00:26:03.618 --> 00:26:03.618
It's just an app?

718
00:26:03.628 --> 00:26:03.978
Yeah, it's an app. Yeah.

719
00:26:03.978 --> 00:26:03.978
Okay.

720
00:26:03.978 --> 00:26:04.748
It's a noise cancellation app.

721
00:26:04.828 --> 00:26:04.898
Okay.

722
00:26:04.928 --> 00:26:07.328
It's awesome. It plays in the background. It could change your...

723
00:26:07.368 --> 00:26:08.648
Yeah, it's awesome.

724
00:26:08.708 --> 00:26:09.308
That's pretty cool.

725
00:26:10.308 --> 00:26:11.078
I think you've said that

726
00:26:12.128 --> 00:26:15.188
there's a difference between people who have eight days of experience versus eight

727
00:26:15.248 --> 00:26:18.988
years of experience. How important is the time in

728
00:26:19.028 --> 00:26:21.268
becoming really good at this?

729
00:26:21.558 --> 00:26:21.558
Yeah.

730
00:26:21.628 --> 00:26:24.527
Can you learn it all in eight days and be as good as- ... an eight-year person?

731
00:26:24.747 --> 00:26:24.757
Never.

732
00:26:24.788 --> 00:26:26.298
Or does time matter a lot?

733
00:26:26.588 --> 00:26:29.718
Yeah. My favorite saying in business is three letters,

734
00:26:30.028 --> 00:26:33.788
TIB, which lenders obviously value a lot, time in business.

735
00:26:34.458 --> 00:26:37.868
I feel like in our space, there is a learning curve, right?

736
00:26:37.908 --> 00:26:41.708
So sometimes we get guys coming in here from car sales, solar,

737
00:26:42.248 --> 00:26:46.138
so many different industries, and they have the right foundation with sales,

738
00:26:46.268 --> 00:26:47.748
but they have to apply it to the product.

739
00:26:47.778 --> 00:26:51.628
And since I've started, I'm still learning every single day.

740
00:26:51.668 --> 00:26:55.037
So imagine, right? But you can't learn everything in eight days.

741
00:26:55.428 --> 00:26:58.548
There's different pricing models, different underwriting guidelines.

742
00:26:58.578 --> 00:27:00.968
The customers are going to hit you with so many different things, right?

743
00:27:00.988 --> 00:27:04.928
They have so many questions. So it's impossible to learn in eight days.

744
00:27:04.948 --> 00:27:08.718
So when people start, we have this funny saying, first 30 days, we call it Rikers

745
00:27:08.788 --> 00:27:09.028
Island.

746
00:27:09.428 --> 00:27:09.708
Okay.

747
00:27:09.948 --> 00:27:12.348
Yeah. We're like, "Welcome to Rikers Island."

748
00:27:12.537 --> 00:27:12.537
Okay.

749
00:27:12.548 --> 00:27:16.058
Because I tell the guys, "You're going to go home with a headache.

750
00:27:16.208 --> 00:27:18.948
And if you do, then that's okay. That's what's going to happen."

751
00:27:19.037 --> 00:27:19.068
Mm-hmm.

752
00:27:19.078 --> 00:27:21.848
"So if you're not going home and your head's not pounding your first week, two

753
00:27:21.868 --> 00:27:24.628
weeks, then something's wrong." Because you're just going to get hit with so much

754
00:27:24.648 --> 00:27:28.568
information, so much overload. Our trainings are very thorough, so you

755
00:27:28.608 --> 00:27:30.228
want to feel like, man, this is pressure.

756
00:27:30.468 --> 00:27:30.648
Mm-hmm.

757
00:27:30.728 --> 00:27:34.468
But if you can get past those 30 days and get two, three months under your belt,

758
00:27:34.508 --> 00:27:35.768
you start getting very comfortable on the phone.

759
00:27:36.268 --> 00:27:38.328
So massive learning curve involved.

760
00:27:38.588 --> 00:27:42.248
I always say that your first full year in MCA, you make a nice

761
00:27:42.348 --> 00:27:42.608
leap.

762
00:27:43.468 --> 00:27:46.958
Year two's awesome. Year three is really where you really

763
00:27:47.768 --> 00:27:50.028
take off and do amazing things income-wise.

764
00:27:50.228 --> 00:27:53.908
So if I was a brand new person off the street, I couldn't expect to maybe compete

765
00:27:53.928 --> 00:27:57.578
with somebody who's been doing it for three years in my first eight

766
00:27:57.608 --> 00:27:57.958
days-

767
00:27:58.138 --> 00:27:58.138
Yeah

768
00:27:58.138 --> 00:28:01.157
... because there is a big learning curve, and I need to learn a lot of different

769
00:28:01.168 --> 00:28:01.488
things.

770
00:28:01.568 --> 00:28:05.538
Yeah, and that's why we have that model where we have opener, closer, because as a

771
00:28:05.548 --> 00:28:09.048
business owner, you want to make sure that your resources are in the best place,

772
00:28:09.488 --> 00:28:13.238
and if you're handing it to a guy who started eight days ago, like we say, you're

773
00:28:13.248 --> 00:28:15.308
going to get smoked, right? You're going to get crushed.

774
00:28:15.328 --> 00:28:17.888
And the competition is fierce right now, as you know.

775
00:28:17.908 --> 00:28:17.918
Mm-hmm.

776
00:28:17.928 --> 00:28:19.688
Yeah, it's a lot of competition right now.

777
00:28:20.208 --> 00:28:22.868
So we talked a lot about what to say to a merchant on the phone.

778
00:28:23.008 --> 00:28:23.068
Yeah.

779
00:28:23.108 --> 00:28:26.708
And we visited the part about the objection of when they say they're busy, it might

780
00:28:26.728 --> 00:28:30.648
not mean they're busy. But nowadays, not everybody is talking

781
00:28:30.748 --> 00:28:33.688
on the phone. There's a lot of texting going on.

782
00:28:34.328 --> 00:28:38.268
How much texting happens between your reps and the merchant, or

783
00:28:38.308 --> 00:28:41.748
is it really over the phone? How much is texting based

784
00:28:41.788 --> 00:28:42.368
now?

785
00:28:43.308 --> 00:28:47.128
So when we run our meetings, we have scorecards, and one of the things we track for

786
00:28:47.148 --> 00:28:50.868
is how much SMS you're sending out, because we actually want that bill to go up.

787
00:28:50.928 --> 00:28:54.588
We want more SMS. But we track for call counts and SMS.

788
00:28:54.728 --> 00:28:57.488
We don't track for emails yet, but knowing me, I'm going to get there at some

789
00:28:57.508 --> 00:28:57.728
point.

790
00:28:58.418 --> 00:28:58.418
Mm-hmm.

791
00:28:58.448 --> 00:29:02.428
But because I know that calls are extremely effective, they're the number one tool

792
00:29:02.468 --> 00:29:05.998
to close, but SMS goes a long way. So I'm very big on

793
00:29:06.028 --> 00:29:09.728
touchpoints, so if I have a conversation with my customer, I will right

794
00:29:09.788 --> 00:29:11.228
after send them a quick text message.

795
00:29:11.328 --> 00:29:15.248
So, "Hey, I'm going to get that deal priced out for an extra month.

796
00:29:15.488 --> 00:29:17.728
Let me work on that. I'll call you back. Cool?" "Yeah, yeah, yeah." Boom.

797
00:29:18.178 --> 00:29:20.578
And then I'll send them a quick message and say, "I'm on it." Right?

798
00:29:20.668 --> 00:29:22.748
So just touchpoints, they go a really long way.

799
00:29:23.668 --> 00:29:26.258
A lot of business owners, they're very hesitant to pick up the phone sometimes

800
00:29:26.328 --> 00:29:27.308
because they're getting hammered.

801
00:29:27.318 --> 00:29:27.318
Mm-hmm.

802
00:29:27.388 --> 00:29:31.378
They're getting a lot of calls. So you can get through with SMS, but

803
00:29:31.428 --> 00:29:33.388
it's just not going to be the same as this conversation.

804
00:29:34.228 --> 00:29:38.128
If I talk to a customer 10 times and you text them 50 times,

805
00:29:38.138 --> 00:29:39.588
I'm probably going to build a stronger bond-

806
00:29:39.688 --> 00:29:39.698
Mm-hmm

807
00:29:39.728 --> 00:29:43.108
... because they know me, they know how I move, they know my tone, my energy, and

808
00:29:43.128 --> 00:29:46.758
it goes a long way. So it's never going to beat calling, but

809
00:29:46.788 --> 00:29:50.048
it's very, very effective. You must be texting your customers.

810
00:29:50.288 --> 00:29:53.668
But you're also saying if you have a good call, follow it up immediately with a

811
00:29:53.728 --> 00:29:54.238
text on top of that.

812
00:29:54.288 --> 00:29:54.738
I do that all the time.

813
00:29:54.738 --> 00:29:56.208
Just hit them from a different angle.

814
00:29:56.228 --> 00:30:00.028
Yeah. My thing is if the customer is going to pick

815
00:30:00.208 --> 00:30:03.368
which competitor to go with, I want them to know that I'm the sharpest.

816
00:30:03.428 --> 00:30:03.598
Mm-hmm.

817
00:30:03.598 --> 00:30:06.888
I'm the sharpest. I'm on top of it. I'm giving them updates throughout the day.

818
00:30:07.068 --> 00:30:07.108
Mm-hmm.

819
00:30:07.148 --> 00:30:08.788
They know where they're at at all times.

820
00:30:09.258 --> 00:30:11.548
And my bet is that most will be sloppy-

821
00:30:11.748 --> 00:30:11.758
Mm-hmm

822
00:30:11.758 --> 00:30:12.828
... so it's very easy to win.

823
00:30:13.248 --> 00:30:13.608
Yeah.

824
00:30:13.688 --> 00:30:16.588
So you just have to be the sharpest and be on point and

825
00:30:17.508 --> 00:30:18.488
beat the competitor.

826
00:30:19.984 --> 00:30:21.324
You have a gong out here.

827
00:30:21.644 --> 00:30:22.164
I sure do.

828
00:30:22.304 --> 00:30:24.824
So, do you hit the gong when a deal gets funded?

829
00:30:24.904 --> 00:30:25.524
Oh, yeah.

830
00:30:25.544 --> 00:30:25.554
How-

831
00:30:25.564 --> 00:30:28.004
I'm surprised I haven't got kicked out yet.

832
00:30:28.764 --> 00:30:30.514
Oh, because of all the other tenants in the building?

833
00:30:30.524 --> 00:30:30.604
Yeah.

834
00:30:31.184 --> 00:30:32.514
So, you're hitting the gong all the time then?

835
00:30:32.564 --> 00:30:34.724
Yeah. As we grow, it's getting difficult-

836
00:30:34.844 --> 00:30:34.984
Mm-hmm

837
00:30:35.084 --> 00:30:37.344
... because now everybody's on the phone.

838
00:30:37.424 --> 00:30:37.584
Mm-hmm.

839
00:30:37.684 --> 00:30:38.944
The noise cancellation is really good.

840
00:30:39.064 --> 00:30:39.184
Mm-hmm.

841
00:30:39.244 --> 00:30:40.784
But still, right, they lose focus.

842
00:30:40.904 --> 00:30:41.084
Yeah.

843
00:30:41.144 --> 00:30:41.644
Mid-pitch.

844
00:30:41.704 --> 00:30:41.823
Yeah.

845
00:30:42.304 --> 00:30:43.744
So now we're moving them towards the end of the day.

846
00:30:44.224 --> 00:30:44.384
But-

847
00:30:44.544 --> 00:30:45.864
Oh, your gonging happens at the end?

848
00:30:46.004 --> 00:30:46.144
Yeah.

849
00:30:46.284 --> 00:30:46.384
Okay.

850
00:30:46.424 --> 00:30:47.503
We're pushing them towards the end of the day.

851
00:30:47.864 --> 00:30:48.884
There's just a lot of people on the phone-

852
00:30:48.894 --> 00:30:48.894
Mm-hmm

853
00:30:48.904 --> 00:30:51.614
... so it gets very difficult to say, "Hey, anybody's good?" And someone's always

854
00:30:51.624 --> 00:30:52.224
in between a call.

855
00:30:52.464 --> 00:30:52.533
Yeah.

856
00:30:52.584 --> 00:30:55.504
So, we just push them, but best thing ever.

857
00:30:56.204 --> 00:30:56.294
Like-

858
00:30:56.294 --> 00:30:59.664
Do you feel like that's part of the reward to say the finalization of a deal,

859
00:30:59.744 --> 00:31:01.464
like getting the gong is like...

860
00:31:02.304 --> 00:31:04.634
I'll tell you, there was a time where we didn't have a gong-

861
00:31:04.724 --> 00:31:04.884
Mm-hmm

862
00:31:04.944 --> 00:31:08.854
... and having it is game changer. If you own a shop and you don't have

863
00:31:08.884 --> 00:31:09.644
a gong, get a gong.

864
00:31:09.724 --> 00:31:09.914
Mm-hmm.

865
00:31:10.124 --> 00:31:13.644
When I tell you, sometimes guys fund deals, let's say at 8:00 PM, deal goes through

866
00:31:13.664 --> 00:31:17.604
last minute. First thing they do is come to my little station and say, "Hey, I

867
00:31:17.644 --> 00:31:18.704
funded last night. Can I hit the gong?"

868
00:31:18.813 --> 00:31:18.874
Mm-hmm.

869
00:31:18.904 --> 00:31:22.324
So, it just creates such an excitement for the sales rep. It's so rewarding.

870
00:31:22.524 --> 00:31:24.764
They want to go out there and show everybody that they did it.

871
00:31:24.804 --> 00:31:25.164
Mm-hmm.

872
00:31:25.184 --> 00:31:28.654
You know what I mean? And especially here, what we do is we record it, so, "Oh, I

873
00:31:28.684 --> 00:31:32.444
get to go on the Instagram, and I get to show everybody what I'm doing." They

874
00:31:32.524 --> 00:31:35.734
repost it, their friends see it, so it's almost like you have to be up there

875
00:31:35.764 --> 00:31:36.324
hitting the gong.

876
00:31:36.384 --> 00:31:36.534
Mm-hmm.

877
00:31:36.604 --> 00:31:37.564
Otherwise, what are you doing?

878
00:31:37.884 --> 00:31:38.084
Yeah.

879
00:31:38.424 --> 00:31:41.564
So, it just creates this competitive environment. It's awesome. I love it.

880
00:31:41.624 --> 00:31:42.524
I hit the gong all the time.

881
00:31:42.564 --> 00:31:42.714
Yeah.

882
00:31:42.784 --> 00:31:45.344
I hit it to this day, and it's probably my favorite thing ever.

883
00:31:45.764 --> 00:31:48.184
I would hit the gong. I would want to hit the gong.

884
00:31:48.384 --> 00:31:51.044
That's the symbolic moment of, like, "I did a deal."

885
00:31:51.184 --> 00:31:55.024
I did that, yeah. And we do also, we put celebration

886
00:31:55.104 --> 00:31:55.404
music.

887
00:31:55.464 --> 00:31:55.574
Mm-hmm.

888
00:31:55.824 --> 00:31:57.154
So, they get to pick their own songs.

889
00:31:57.174 --> 00:31:57.464
Yeah.

890
00:31:57.474 --> 00:32:01.394
And so before the gong, they play a song on the screen that says,

891
00:32:01.394 --> 00:32:03.824
"I funded a deal." It's like a cool song. Whatever they want, right?

892
00:32:03.834 --> 00:32:03.834
Mm-hmm.

893
00:32:03.844 --> 00:32:07.804
We got Spanish music, we got craziness, and then from there, they look up

894
00:32:07.824 --> 00:32:09.734
on the board, "Ah!" And they all scream-

895
00:32:09.794 --> 00:32:09.794
Mm

896
00:32:09.804 --> 00:32:12.624
... because they see who did it, and then they go up and hit the gong.

897
00:32:12.664 --> 00:32:15.804
So, it's just super-- It's such a good environment for the office.

898
00:32:15.824 --> 00:32:15.954
Mm-hmm.

899
00:32:16.064 --> 00:32:16.874
It creates an environment.

900
00:32:17.104 --> 00:32:20.244
I saw that you have a video, like a leaderboard thing.

901
00:32:20.344 --> 00:32:20.354
Yes.

902
00:32:20.384 --> 00:32:22.403
What is that tracking? What is that showing people?

903
00:32:22.424 --> 00:32:26.274
So, we're tracking call counts, we're tracking lead conversion, we're tracking

904
00:32:26.364 --> 00:32:29.024
how many deals you're funding, submissions, all that good stuff.

905
00:32:30.224 --> 00:32:31.324
Nobody wants to be at the bottom.

906
00:32:31.404 --> 00:32:31.844
Mm-hmm.

907
00:32:31.884 --> 00:32:35.844
So, when you have all this information exposed, everybody's like, "Where am

908
00:32:35.884 --> 00:32:36.504
I in the leaderboard?"

909
00:32:36.553 --> 00:32:36.694
Mm-hmm.

910
00:32:36.694 --> 00:32:39.194
Like, "I'm not going to be the last guy." Or if you're super competitive, "I want

911
00:32:39.204 --> 00:32:42.864
to be the top guy." So, it just creates this healthy competition, which we love.

912
00:32:42.904 --> 00:32:43.074
Mm-hmm.

913
00:32:43.284 --> 00:32:46.284
Prior to that, it was like, you'll know when you find out.

914
00:32:46.324 --> 00:32:48.594
If we're doing a meeting and we're running scorecards, you'll find out.

915
00:32:48.664 --> 00:32:52.123
But now it's exposed, and it just creates crazy competition.

916
00:32:52.204 --> 00:32:53.464
Is it updating in real time?

917
00:32:53.644 --> 00:32:53.884
Yeah.

918
00:32:53.924 --> 00:32:57.724
So, you can literally, throughout the day, see where you are

919
00:32:57.744 --> 00:32:58.324
throughout the day.

920
00:32:58.384 --> 00:32:58.394
Yeah.

921
00:32:58.424 --> 00:32:59.414
Not just at the end of the day-

922
00:32:59.644 --> 00:32:59.773
Mm-hmm

923
00:32:59.773 --> 00:33:01.254
... you don't adjust it. It's live updating.

924
00:33:01.324 --> 00:33:05.184
It's live. I think every five minutes, it just refreshes.

925
00:33:05.204 --> 00:33:08.484
So, for the office, it just creates a competitive environment, which we love.

926
00:33:10.664 --> 00:33:13.773
On your Instagram, you said like, "Comment elite" or something.

927
00:33:13.964 --> 00:33:14.004
Yes.

928
00:33:14.024 --> 00:33:14.704
What is that?

929
00:33:15.284 --> 00:33:18.884
So, I am working with a new marketing team, and they're telling me

930
00:33:18.944 --> 00:33:22.784
that, "You need CTAs." Right? "You're giving out a lot of game, love

931
00:33:22.884 --> 00:33:25.784
that, but we need some sort of way to track engagement."

932
00:33:25.884 --> 00:33:26.084
Mm-hmm.

933
00:33:26.464 --> 00:33:28.874
So, they're using the trigger word elite.

934
00:33:29.004 --> 00:33:29.094
Mm-hmm.

935
00:33:29.234 --> 00:33:33.124
And what it does is it sends an automation, and it allows people to

936
00:33:33.164 --> 00:33:36.944
apply to work here. So, for me, we're building content.

937
00:33:36.964 --> 00:33:38.944
We want to bring in like-minded people.

938
00:33:39.444 --> 00:33:42.964
Content does that, so now we're funneling those people to work here.

939
00:33:42.974 --> 00:33:42.974
Mm-hmm.

940
00:33:43.024 --> 00:33:45.884
So, that's kind of what we're doing, and we're getting a lot of DMs,

941
00:33:46.844 --> 00:33:48.273
so it's hectic in there right now.

942
00:33:48.684 --> 00:33:52.553
One thing I've noticed is that you mentioned people kind of organically apply here,

943
00:33:52.664 --> 00:33:56.064
right? And you're doing this content, and that feeds into it.

944
00:33:57.064 --> 00:34:00.744
But there's the whole side of like, well, do we really want people

945
00:34:00.784 --> 00:34:04.544
applying because it's so competitive now, there's not a lot of leads

946
00:34:04.664 --> 00:34:06.164
out there, or leads are saturated?

947
00:34:06.224 --> 00:34:08.725
But it seems like maybe that's not the case-

948
00:34:08.984 --> 00:34:09.165
Yeah

949
00:34:09.185 --> 00:34:09.904
... for you.

950
00:34:10.725 --> 00:34:14.124
How are you generating business? Are you on a dialer cold calling?

951
00:34:14.185 --> 00:34:14.654
Or what's your-

952
00:34:14.975 --> 00:34:14.975
No

953
00:34:14.975 --> 00:34:16.924
... what's your strategy without telling me your secrets?

954
00:34:17.644 --> 00:34:18.685
I'll open freely.

955
00:34:19.685 --> 00:34:23.614
I have never been a dialer fan. I know a lot of good people in the

956
00:34:23.745 --> 00:34:27.464
space that I respect a lot, and I get a lot of advice from that run that model, and

957
00:34:27.504 --> 00:34:31.344
they crush. So, it works. It's not my favorite model

958
00:34:31.424 --> 00:34:33.804
because I like when the customers are coming to us.

959
00:34:33.864 --> 00:34:37.053
Same thing I said earlier about people inbound organic content, people want to work

960
00:34:37.104 --> 00:34:40.924
here, same approach with sales. So, if I can get a customer to raise their

961
00:34:40.964 --> 00:34:44.725
hand and say, "Hey, I want funding. Here's how much I make. Here's my credit.

962
00:34:44.774 --> 00:34:48.544
Here's how much I want," and I can get my guys to bring that in, that's a very

963
00:34:48.554 --> 00:34:52.274
high-quality lead. So, instead of having guys here making

964
00:34:52.584 --> 00:34:56.144
500, $1,000 a day, they're focused on the most important thing, which are people

965
00:34:56.165 --> 00:34:56.864
raising their hand.

966
00:34:56.904 --> 00:34:56.915
Mm-hmm.

967
00:34:57.104 --> 00:35:00.754
So, as you can imagine, it's very expensive, but the amount of submissions we're

968
00:35:00.784 --> 00:35:04.424
seeing, the funding numbers we're seeing, it's a lot for the people that we have.

969
00:35:04.764 --> 00:35:07.693
So, I like to condense the time of

970
00:35:08.164 --> 00:35:12.064
instead of making 500 calls to find one guy who wants to buy or

971
00:35:12.104 --> 00:35:16.014
five guys that want to buy, can we talk to 20 of those guys a day,

972
00:35:16.624 --> 00:35:18.504
collect those submissions, and then fund more deals?

973
00:35:18.564 --> 00:35:18.674
Mm-hmm.

974
00:35:18.764 --> 00:35:21.203
So, I bridge that gap by spending more money.

975
00:35:21.284 --> 00:35:21.444
Yeah.

976
00:35:21.564 --> 00:35:25.424
So, everything's inbound, everything is digital marketing, and we have a

977
00:35:25.464 --> 00:35:27.924
lead problem, so that's why we're saying comment elite.

978
00:35:28.184 --> 00:35:28.404
Mm-hmm.

979
00:35:28.564 --> 00:35:32.304
Right now, we have a problem where we have too many leads coming in.

980
00:35:32.384 --> 00:35:33.464
Too many deals coming in.

981
00:35:33.504 --> 00:35:34.054
Too many leads coming in, yeah.

982
00:35:34.064 --> 00:35:35.184
Too many leads coming in.

983
00:35:35.244 --> 00:35:37.944
To the point where the data's just not being hit as hard as it should.

984
00:35:37.984 --> 00:35:38.134
Mm-hmm.

985
00:35:38.684 --> 00:35:38.904
So-

986
00:35:39.124 --> 00:35:39.944
Too many leads.

987
00:35:40.024 --> 00:35:41.344
Too many leads. Yeah.

988
00:35:41.744 --> 00:35:42.604
Pretty good problem to have.

989
00:35:42.824 --> 00:35:44.304
Good problem. Expensive problem.

990
00:35:44.504 --> 00:35:46.324
Mm-hmm. And this is from your own marketing?

991
00:35:46.584 --> 00:35:46.864
Correct.

992
00:35:47.044 --> 00:35:47.304
Okay.

993
00:35:47.344 --> 00:35:47.354
Yeah, yeah.

994
00:35:47.384 --> 00:35:49.404
So, you're generating inbound calls.

995
00:35:49.824 --> 00:35:52.004
Inbound opt-in, like lead forms.

996
00:35:52.044 --> 00:35:53.044
Inbound inquiries, right?

997
00:35:53.064 --> 00:35:53.234
Yeah, inquiries.

998
00:35:53.244 --> 00:35:54.784
Okay. And you have too many coming in.

999
00:35:55.004 --> 00:35:55.434
Too many coming in.

1000
00:35:55.504 --> 00:35:55.724
Okay.

1001
00:35:55.884 --> 00:35:55.894
Yeah.

1002
00:35:55.924 --> 00:35:56.064
So,

1003
00:35:57.044 --> 00:36:00.084
if people were to say the industry is kind of like oversaturated or it's too

1004
00:36:00.124 --> 00:36:03.864
competitive, here you're saying if you figure out a

1005
00:36:03.904 --> 00:36:06.234
proper strategy, you can actually be in a position where you have-

1006
00:36:06.684 --> 00:36:06.954
Too much

1007
00:36:06.954 --> 00:36:07.284
... too many-

1008
00:36:07.784 --> 00:36:07.864
Yeah

1009
00:36:07.874 --> 00:36:08.554
... leads coming in.

1010
00:36:09.064 --> 00:36:12.304
I'll say this. I think this is going to be helpful for a lot of people learning,

1011
00:36:12.344 --> 00:36:15.144
especially with guys that run shops, and gals.

1012
00:36:16.124 --> 00:36:20.074
I never knew how much I could spend until I had the proper data, like the tracking,

1013
00:36:20.204 --> 00:36:21.094
the right reporting.

1014
00:36:21.284 --> 00:36:21.404
Mm-hmm.

1015
00:36:22.184 --> 00:36:24.224
I started tracking like an ROI report.

1016
00:36:24.264 --> 00:36:27.994
So, I started figuring out, okay, let me just start tracking if I put a dollar in,

1017
00:36:28.024 --> 00:36:31.540
how much do I get out?Because prior to that, I would spend money based on feelings

1018
00:36:31.580 --> 00:36:35.380
like, "Oh, this feels right. Let me keep trying this campaign."

1019
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:39.120
Sometimes I would turn off campaigns that were working, but I didn't know that

1020
00:36:39.160 --> 00:36:42.440
because I wasn't tracking. So the minute I started implementing

1021
00:36:43.240 --> 00:36:46.040
data and actual tracking in my CRM,

1022
00:36:47.120 --> 00:36:50.360
then I started looking at my reports and saying, "Oh, wait, this is five to one.

1023
00:36:50.440 --> 00:36:54.180
This is three to one. This stuff works." So when it gets to that point, it becomes

1024
00:36:54.220 --> 00:36:57.180
a thing of can I spend more, right? Now it's like, "Okay, well, this works.

1025
00:36:57.240 --> 00:36:58.480
Can I just increase spend?"

1026
00:36:58.520 --> 00:36:58.800
Mm-hmm.

1027
00:36:58.820 --> 00:37:02.000
And when you have campaigns like that, then you're going to be in a good position.

1028
00:37:02.040 --> 00:37:04.420
You're going to have this problem where it's 20 leads.

1029
00:37:04.640 --> 00:37:08.250
But yeah, I highly encourage anybody who's learning or who has a shop, you

1030
00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:12.660
need to have CRM tracking. You need to have the right

1031
00:37:12.680 --> 00:37:14.720
reporting in place. Otherwise, you're flying blind.

1032
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:15.020
Mm-hmm.

1033
00:37:15.050 --> 00:37:17.250
And you're going to be making decisions based off emotion, which is what I was

1034
00:37:17.260 --> 00:37:20.410
doing. Right? And you never know how much you can spend until you can see what

1035
00:37:20.420 --> 00:37:21.160
you're making on the money.

1036
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:21.580
Mm-hmm.

1037
00:37:21.860 --> 00:37:24.940
So that's key. Having reporting is insane. Yeah.

1038
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:26.380
Big mistake I made in the beginning.

1039
00:37:26.640 --> 00:37:29.200
Without revealing which CRM you're using-

1040
00:37:29.380 --> 00:37:29.490
Ah, who cares?

1041
00:37:29.490 --> 00:37:32.920
... how much time did you spend in choosing a CRM solution?

1042
00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:36.900
I think I've had, if not all of them, I've had a lot of CRMs in the space.

1043
00:37:36.980 --> 00:37:38.030
You've used a bunch of different ones.

1044
00:37:38.040 --> 00:37:38.640
I've used a bunch.

1045
00:37:38.720 --> 00:37:38.960
Okay.

1046
00:37:39.740 --> 00:37:43.140
Every time I was using a CRM, I found myself using two.

1047
00:37:43.380 --> 00:37:47.040
So, go High Level for marketing and XYZ for this,

1048
00:37:47.100 --> 00:37:50.580
or this one for lead management and then this one for... It was very sloppy.

1049
00:37:50.600 --> 00:37:50.610
Mm-hmm.

1050
00:37:50.920 --> 00:37:51.620
I use Salesforce.

1051
00:37:51.780 --> 00:37:51.980
Okay.

1052
00:37:52.060 --> 00:37:52.960
I love Salesforce.

1053
00:37:53.040 --> 00:37:53.160
Yeah.

1054
00:37:53.620 --> 00:37:55.340
It's truly all-in-one.

1055
00:37:56.300 --> 00:37:59.820
And to your point, when I get the Salesforce bill, it's very expensive, right?

1056
00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:00.010
Mm-hmm.

1057
00:38:00.200 --> 00:38:01.700
But I look at it and I'm like, "I love you."

1058
00:38:02.520 --> 00:38:05.080
I look at that bill and I'm like, "I hate you, but I love you," because I know the

1059
00:38:05.120 --> 00:38:05.660
power behind it.

1060
00:38:05.700 --> 00:38:05.880
Yeah.

1061
00:38:06.200 --> 00:38:09.370
If you can have all your data stored, it's being nurtured, you have the right

1062
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:12.820
systems in place, you have the right reporting, I mean, that thing prints money.

1063
00:38:12.900 --> 00:38:15.600
Did you do your own customizations to custom tailor it to you?

1064
00:38:16.260 --> 00:38:18.360
I did, but I do work with some vendors in the space-

1065
00:38:18.430 --> 00:38:18.430
Okay

1066
00:38:18.460 --> 00:38:18.770
... to tell me all that.

1067
00:38:18.780 --> 00:38:20.050
That are Salesforce compatible?

1068
00:38:20.140 --> 00:38:20.380
Yes.

1069
00:38:20.440 --> 00:38:20.600
Okay.

1070
00:38:20.640 --> 00:38:22.370
Yes. And that's how we integrate all our-

1071
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:22.410
Mm-hmm

1072
00:38:22.410 --> 00:38:23.900
... lenders and all that good stuff.

1073
00:38:24.440 --> 00:38:26.560
But yeah, it's the Ferrari of the CRMs.

1074
00:38:26.620 --> 00:38:27.600
Nothing's beat it so far-

1075
00:38:27.620 --> 00:38:27.730
Mm-hmm

1076
00:38:27.860 --> 00:38:28.600
... for me, at least.

1077
00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:31.840
But you've found that's a really important part to just running a broker shop.

1078
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:32.180
Yeah.

1079
00:38:33.240 --> 00:38:36.300
Sometimes we bring on people that come from other places and they're like, "Whoa,

1080
00:38:36.340 --> 00:38:36.830
what's this?"

1081
00:38:37.050 --> 00:38:37.309
Mm-hmm.

1082
00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:39.529
So I've had a lot of CRMs. Again, it's

1083
00:38:40.740 --> 00:38:44.289
super sloppy. You're using one for this, one for that, and with Salesforce,

1084
00:38:44.900 --> 00:38:47.420
you put a little, let's say a stage detail.

1085
00:38:47.520 --> 00:38:50.900
Let's say a customer's not interested. It just takes everything out for you.

1086
00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:51.040
Mm-hmm.

1087
00:38:51.050 --> 00:38:54.920
It's just one thing. And I like to have my reps just focusing on one

1088
00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:55.340
screen.

1089
00:38:55.500 --> 00:38:55.660
Mm-hmm.

1090
00:38:55.720 --> 00:38:59.000
So we have our phone systems in there, our SMS is in there. Everything's there.

1091
00:38:59.040 --> 00:39:01.920
So they just live in one hub, if you will.

1092
00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:03.860
So it's amazing.

1093
00:39:03.960 --> 00:39:04.380
Awesome.

1094
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:06.820
Yeah. Definitely worth the investment.

1095
00:39:08.100 --> 00:39:10.600
Is there anything you want to ask me or-

1096
00:39:10.629 --> 00:39:10.820
I do.

1097
00:39:10.860 --> 00:39:11.040
Okay.

1098
00:39:13.200 --> 00:39:17.140
I can imagine that event planning is stressful.

1099
00:39:17.900 --> 00:39:18.530
I'd love to

1100
00:39:19.560 --> 00:39:22.220
understand how do you go about that stuff? Where do you start?

1101
00:39:22.250 --> 00:39:24.100
There's a show coming up in June.

1102
00:39:24.460 --> 00:39:24.940
Yeah.

1103
00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:29.030
Are you halfway there? What's the process

1104
00:39:29.080 --> 00:39:30.120
like?

1105
00:39:30.180 --> 00:39:34.030
Yeah. Wow. No one's ever asked me about the event planning aspect of our business,

1106
00:39:34.200 --> 00:39:34.349
but-

1107
00:39:36.060 --> 00:39:37.740
That's really what the business that I'm in.

1108
00:39:37.750 --> 00:39:37.750
Yeah.

1109
00:39:38.080 --> 00:39:42.000
We also have a publishing component that is pretty big

1110
00:39:42.040 --> 00:39:44.080
itself, too. But the event planning, it-

1111
00:39:44.560 --> 00:39:45.220
That says it all.

1112
00:39:46.520 --> 00:39:50.260
Well, I think this is what it is, right? It's going great.

1113
00:39:50.270 --> 00:39:52.890
It's going well. I've been doing it a long time now, and I think

1114
00:39:53.720 --> 00:39:57.620
part of being an entrepreneur, kind of like yourself, you were in

1115
00:39:57.640 --> 00:39:59.580
sales. You were an ISO rep at one point.

1116
00:39:59.620 --> 00:40:03.040
You did sales, and then when you started hiring people here, you had to start

1117
00:40:03.060 --> 00:40:06.900
thinking about things like inbound marketing and KPIs, and you had to become an

1118
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:10.580
expert at things you were learning on your own along the way, right?

1119
00:40:10.610 --> 00:40:10.610
Mm-hmm.

1120
00:40:10.660 --> 00:40:14.550
So that's part of being an entrepreneur, just taking the chance and being willing

1121
00:40:14.580 --> 00:40:17.670
to do all that stuff. And so for me, what's kind of

1122
00:40:18.280 --> 00:40:22.160
unique about my background, especially for people who are

1123
00:40:22.220 --> 00:40:26.070
new to the industry, who are maybe in their early 20s or maybe those who don't even

1124
00:40:26.080 --> 00:40:29.550
know me that well, there's a lot of presumptions that maybe I came from

1125
00:40:29.680 --> 00:40:33.390
journalism, and I just found an industry that I like to write about, or I thought

1126
00:40:33.400 --> 00:40:36.590
it would be nice to have a conference for this industry as if I just came from

1127
00:40:36.620 --> 00:40:39.860
nowhere. You know what I mean? So I said, "No, there's a lot more background to

1128
00:40:39.900 --> 00:40:43.700
it." I started as an underwriter now 20 years ago, an MCA

1129
00:40:43.760 --> 00:40:47.280
underwriter. I was a broker for about three years, and so I have experience

1130
00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:50.840
working in the industry. And what happened was I was

1131
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:54.520
blogging about the industry while working as a broker.

1132
00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:58.540
Now, my boss at the time knew I was doing it, so it wasn't a secret,

1133
00:40:58.750 --> 00:41:02.700
and I wasn't doing anything that they were against, but it started

1134
00:41:02.740 --> 00:41:04.500
to attract its own following, and eventually-

1135
00:41:04.600 --> 00:41:04.610
Yeah

1136
00:41:04.610 --> 00:41:07.820
... people said, "We'd like to have more content," or, "We want to have an ad on

1137
00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:09.540
there." And I wasn't even thinking about that

1138
00:41:10.740 --> 00:41:14.510
until eventually I started to realize I had to think about that because

1139
00:41:14.540 --> 00:41:16.460
people were kind of demanding it, right?

1140
00:41:16.620 --> 00:41:19.520
So you have to figure out things along the way.

1141
00:41:19.540 --> 00:41:22.400
And so we worked our way up to having a print publication.

1142
00:41:22.560 --> 00:41:26.280
We were in print for five, six years. Had I ever done print publishing before?

1143
00:41:26.660 --> 00:41:30.500
No. Like I said, I came from underwriting and brokering deals, and

1144
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:33.200
then I'm doing print publishing. I literally called up a publisher...

1145
00:41:33.300 --> 00:41:36.300
I called up a print shop, and I said, "I want to take my blog, and I want to turn

1146
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:39.240
it into a magazine. How do I do that?" Literally.

1147
00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:39.520
Yeah.

1148
00:41:39.610 --> 00:41:42.120
"Can you help me do that?" "Because if you can't, I'll call another print shop

1149
00:41:42.180 --> 00:41:44.700
until I find somebody who can help me because that's what I want to do.

1150
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:46.960
I don't know if it's going to work. I don't know if it'll make money, but that's

1151
00:41:47.300 --> 00:41:47.720
where I'm heading."

1152
00:41:49.300 --> 00:41:52.940
We did pretty good with that, and then COVID happened, and doing B2B

1153
00:41:52.950 --> 00:41:55.580
publication very difficult because no one was in an office.

1154
00:41:55.620 --> 00:41:55.960
Yeah.

1155
00:41:56.000 --> 00:41:59.470
But that's fine. It was no loss, really, and most of our activity was coming from

1156
00:41:59.500 --> 00:42:00.120
the online.

1157
00:42:01.270 --> 00:42:04.320
Mature enough to realize that even if you

1158
00:42:05.580 --> 00:42:09.540
are sort of emotionally attached to something, the magazine in person, the physical

1159
00:42:09.580 --> 00:42:10.110
magazine-

1160
00:42:10.220 --> 00:42:10.250
Yeah

1161
00:42:10.250 --> 00:42:13.840
... it said a lot about the brand, but it wasn't really a profit

1162
00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:15.840
generator. So just say goodbye to it.

1163
00:42:16.010 --> 00:42:18.600
I was okay, be like, "You've got to let it loose."

1164
00:42:18.660 --> 00:42:18.980
Yeah.

1165
00:42:19.700 --> 00:42:23.100
But then to go and do events, that's a whole...

1166
00:42:23.420 --> 00:42:27.360
I do that because I think in the beginning, I decided I was just going to

1167
00:42:28.060 --> 00:42:31.410
hire internal event planners. I talked to third-party agencies.

1168
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:34.900
They're going to charge you 100K for them just to do the work.

1169
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:35.060
Yeah.

1170
00:42:35.200 --> 00:42:38.220
Right? That's just for them to do the labor and the work.

1171
00:42:38.240 --> 00:42:41.760
Forget about the actual production cost of everything. And I said, "Nah.

1172
00:42:41.900 --> 00:42:45.840
That's insane. Surely I can just hire someone internally, and we'll

1173
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:49.090
figure it out." So in the beginning, that's what I did. I hired an event planner.

1174
00:42:49.690 --> 00:42:52.400
We put on our first Broker Fair Conference in 2018.

1175
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:57.160
Then I realized, wow, this is way more work

1176
00:42:57.740 --> 00:43:01.650
than I ever thought it could be. I'm like, "Oh, my goodness,"

1177
00:43:01.720 --> 00:43:01.840
right?

1178
00:43:02.660 --> 00:43:05.980
But at the time, my thought was just to hire more people and just continue to

1179
00:43:06.060 --> 00:43:08.840
delegate. I'm like, "I'm supposed to know about the industry."

1180
00:43:08.940 --> 00:43:09.200
Yeah.

1181
00:43:09.240 --> 00:43:12.520
And I'm supposed to talk about underwriting and brokering and deals and all that

1182
00:43:12.600 --> 00:43:15.000
stuff, and I can't be involved in event planning.

1183
00:43:15.010 --> 00:43:15.140
Mm-hmm.

1184
00:43:15.180 --> 00:43:19.090
The nuts and bolts of it. But it turns out I have to be in

1185
00:43:19.140 --> 00:43:21.120
order to really pull it off well and execute it well.

1186
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:24.999
And it took me a little while to figure that out and realize, no,

1187
00:43:25.480 --> 00:43:28.439
that's what we're doing, and I have to know the business that I'm in.

1188
00:43:28.620 --> 00:43:28.880
Yes.

1189
00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:29.670
I have to know

1190
00:43:31.240 --> 00:43:34.940
our metrics. I have to know what our profit margins are in certain areas.

1191
00:43:34.980 --> 00:43:37.000
So I'm looking at things like food cost.

1192
00:43:37.060 --> 00:43:37.330
Yeah.

1193
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:40.820
I'm sure if you talk to a restaurant owner, in the restaurant owner's mind, they're

1194
00:43:40.840 --> 00:43:44.280
thinking about their profit margin and what their food cost is when they're doing

1195
00:43:44.300 --> 00:43:47.790
their business. And I realize, how could I be in a situation where I'm thinking

1196
00:43:47.820 --> 00:43:49.680
about food costs? You know what I mean?

1197
00:43:50.160 --> 00:43:51.060
But that's what-

1198
00:43:51.340 --> 00:43:51.460
Yeah

1199
00:43:51.500 --> 00:43:52.520
... that's what I'm in.

1200
00:43:52.610 --> 00:43:52.610
Yeah.

1201
00:43:52.640 --> 00:43:55.900
And so you have to really understand your own business.

1202
00:43:55.960 --> 00:43:58.060
And so, we do three events per year.

1203
00:43:58.720 --> 00:44:00.920
Trade associations tend to do one per year.

1204
00:44:01.380 --> 00:44:03.700
So we're kind of on an accelerated track.

1205
00:44:04.060 --> 00:44:04.180
Yeah.

1206
00:44:04.260 --> 00:44:07.080
We do three per year, and all of them are pretty large.

1207
00:44:07.300 --> 00:44:10.790
So that means that the burden is even more than what it-

1208
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:11.420
All year long.

1209
00:44:11.780 --> 00:44:15.750
All year long. So, I'm actually thinking about event planning all the time, and

1210
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:17.160
I do have really good people-

1211
00:44:17.600 --> 00:44:17.720
Yeah

1212
00:44:17.820 --> 00:44:21.520
... who deal with the individual details and logistics and

1213
00:44:21.600 --> 00:44:25.580
stuff like that, but I know how it all works, and I'm sort of

1214
00:44:25.660 --> 00:44:28.309
overseeing all of it, and I'm very involved-

1215
00:44:28.519 --> 00:44:28.680
Wow

1216
00:44:28.739 --> 00:44:30.640
... way more than I used to be. So,

1217
00:44:31.880 --> 00:44:35.050
when it comes to Broker Fair and GBANC Connect Miami, these are not things

1218
00:44:35.160 --> 00:44:36.640
outsourced to some third party.

1219
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:40.960
This is an internal business operation where we

1220
00:44:41.020 --> 00:44:44.700
internally are thinking about what value can we

1221
00:44:45.740 --> 00:44:49.700
bring to the people that attend it, or who we want to attend

1222
00:44:49.740 --> 00:44:53.440
it. What can we get that they might not be getting anywhere else?

1223
00:44:53.840 --> 00:44:55.350
That's not how

1224
00:44:56.200 --> 00:44:57.630
a lot of people think about a conference.

1225
00:44:57.720 --> 00:45:00.680
There's a formula for how to do a conference. There's a formula.

1226
00:45:00.940 --> 00:45:01.080
Yeah.

1227
00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:05.220
You have booths, you have speakers, you have food, you have drinks.

1228
00:45:05.460 --> 00:45:05.580
Yeah.

1229
00:45:05.780 --> 00:45:09.600
And you pick a venue, and it's a formula, and every industry has that.

1230
00:45:10.490 --> 00:45:12.540
But GBANC is not a trade association.

1231
00:45:12.620 --> 00:45:15.040
We're an independent organization.

1232
00:45:15.240 --> 00:45:15.250
Mm-hmm.

1233
00:45:15.250 --> 00:45:15.320
And

1234
00:45:17.340 --> 00:45:20.540
it's always been my idea and thought to bring

1235
00:45:22.020 --> 00:45:25.970
a specific value to the people that

1236
00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:27.820
make all the difference in the industry.

1237
00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:31.860
And if you look from the bottom to the top, and I don't

1238
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:35.200
really even like to think about it that way, it's more of a horizontal thing.

1239
00:45:36.560 --> 00:45:40.280
The brokers are the ones that bring the deal to the table.

1240
00:45:40.520 --> 00:45:40.700
Yeah.

1241
00:45:40.820 --> 00:45:42.380
And none of the other parties would exist

1242
00:45:43.200 --> 00:45:43.880
without them.

1243
00:45:44.180 --> 00:45:44.320
Yeah.

1244
00:45:44.380 --> 00:45:47.120
So I have to think in the context of event planning,

1245
00:45:48.540 --> 00:45:51.890
how do we create something that would be valuable to that

1246
00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:54.820
specific demographic in this industry?

1247
00:45:54.850 --> 00:45:56.240
And it's a hard nut to crack .

1248
00:45:57.060 --> 00:46:00.380
I know. Brokers are tough. Brokers are tough. They build resilience.

1249
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:00.460
Mm-hmm.

1250
00:46:00.600 --> 00:46:04.350
I go to a lot of your shows, and the amount of value that's there, I

1251
00:46:04.540 --> 00:46:08.510
could tell you, is insane. When I go, I

1252
00:46:08.580 --> 00:46:12.300
come back with a stack of cards, and sometimes it's like

1253
00:46:13.040 --> 00:46:15.620
you sign up one or two people that make all the difference.

1254
00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:19.800
I've signed up partners at your conference that are like, "We're

1255
00:46:20.080 --> 00:46:22.020
rocking." Right? And we've been rocking for years.

1256
00:46:22.220 --> 00:46:26.160
So as the broker that goes, there's so much

1257
00:46:26.200 --> 00:46:29.279
value there, it's crazy. My first conference, I was super shy.

1258
00:46:29.520 --> 00:46:30.700
I was like, "Ah, I don't know."

1259
00:46:30.980 --> 00:46:31.700
What was your first one?

1260
00:46:32.120 --> 00:46:34.700
I believe it was maybe in '23.

1261
00:46:35.200 --> 00:46:35.430
Okay, 2023.

1262
00:46:35.430 --> 00:46:36.400
When I started Breadline.

1263
00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:37.220
In New York?

1264
00:46:37.520 --> 00:46:37.980
It was in New York.

1265
00:46:38.080 --> 00:46:38.300
Okay.

1266
00:46:38.860 --> 00:46:42.420
And I was very shy. So I left with some cards, but I didn't have conversations.

1267
00:46:42.730 --> 00:46:44.120
And then I was like, "All right. I need to do this again."

1268
00:46:44.260 --> 00:46:44.460
Mm-hmm.

1269
00:46:44.530 --> 00:46:45.550
"I need to break through." And-

1270
00:46:45.580 --> 00:46:46.400
A shy broker?

1271
00:46:46.580 --> 00:46:49.240
A shy broker. I got attacked, but a shy broker.

1272
00:46:49.680 --> 00:46:51.680
They see the color of the band-

1273
00:46:51.780 --> 00:46:51.830
Yeah

1274
00:46:51.830 --> 00:46:52.720
... and they know.

1275
00:46:54.120 --> 00:46:57.090
And that's a skill, too. So for brokers listening, it's a skill, right?

1276
00:46:57.180 --> 00:47:00.380
You go in there, and you're going to meet someone that could potentially change

1277
00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:04.280
your life. And I'm sure you know, but you have no idea how

1278
00:47:04.300 --> 00:47:06.780
many lives you've changed by people... It's insane.

1279
00:47:07.160 --> 00:47:08.670
You've changed my life, but I can't imagine.

1280
00:47:08.700 --> 00:47:11.780
All these individuals in there making connections, just putting those people in one

1281
00:47:11.860 --> 00:47:13.980
room, extremely powerful. Right?

1282
00:47:14.020 --> 00:47:15.000
Well, thank you for that.

1283
00:47:15.100 --> 00:47:15.130
Yes.

1284
00:47:15.150 --> 00:47:15.750
It's really nice of you-

1285
00:47:15.860 --> 00:47:16.460
It... I always-

1286
00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:16.760
... to share

1287
00:47:17.060 --> 00:47:20.079
... even in my content, I'm like, "Listen, you have to go to conferences," because

1288
00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:24.290
luckily, you're doing what you're doing, and you're creating that environment for

1289
00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:27.540
us to just come in and do our thing. But it's so powerful.

1290
00:47:27.560 --> 00:47:31.200
So let me ask you, since you're being so kind and generous right now.

1291
00:47:31.880 --> 00:47:34.750
I imagine you already have funders and everybody already calling here trying to

1292
00:47:35.500 --> 00:47:36.660
work with you, right?

1293
00:47:36.670 --> 00:47:36.670
Yeah.

1294
00:47:36.700 --> 00:47:38.640
So you're already in demand.

1295
00:47:38.680 --> 00:47:39.140
Yes.

1296
00:47:39.180 --> 00:47:42.480
So what's the incentive for you to now go to go

1297
00:47:42.540 --> 00:47:45.300
and be in a big room with them and-

1298
00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:46.160
And get more demand, right?

1299
00:47:46.300 --> 00:47:47.280
Yeah.

1300
00:47:48.920 --> 00:47:51.280
So you're not only going to meet lenders.

1301
00:47:51.420 --> 00:47:53.760
Well, you're going to meet lenders, but there's always

1302
00:47:54.800 --> 00:47:57.040
another business in there. There's always a marketing guy.

1303
00:47:57.140 --> 00:47:59.300
There's always a tech person there.

1304
00:47:59.660 --> 00:48:01.940
There's always something new coming out with AI.

1305
00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:05.380
And that's the cool thing about the conference. It's not just brokers and lenders.

1306
00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:07.820
It's different stuff, right? There's different niche.

1307
00:48:07.900 --> 00:48:11.450
And every time you go, there's someone on stage that could teach you something, or

1308
00:48:11.480 --> 00:48:14.690
there's someone you could shake hands with that says, "Hey, I run XYZ marketing

1309
00:48:14.720 --> 00:48:16.140
company," and you can partner up with them.

1310
00:48:16.180 --> 00:48:19.820
So it's not just about the lenders, it's about everything else in the sides, and

1311
00:48:19.860 --> 00:48:23.560
that's where you get your value. And then also just meeting your lenders in person,

1312
00:48:23.640 --> 00:48:24.380
extremely powerful.

1313
00:48:24.480 --> 00:48:24.550
Mm-hmm.

1314
00:48:25.300 --> 00:48:27.680
When they meet you in person, they shake your hand, it's like, "Okay, you're

1315
00:48:27.780 --> 00:48:29.864
real."We got you. You got your number.

1316
00:48:29.914 --> 00:48:29.914
Mm-hmm.

1317
00:48:29.924 --> 00:48:32.604
It's legit. And you can move mountains with that

1318
00:48:33.424 --> 00:48:37.224
in-person touch. So I go to nurture relationships, but then I

1319
00:48:37.284 --> 00:48:40.164
also go to meet the sideline people that...

1320
00:48:40.184 --> 00:48:41.624
You never know who you're going to run into.

1321
00:48:41.744 --> 00:48:41.944
Mm-hmm.

1322
00:48:42.004 --> 00:48:45.214
Just take the bet, go out there, shake hands,

1323
00:48:46.004 --> 00:48:47.984
and meet people. You never know.

1324
00:48:48.304 --> 00:48:51.924
I guess if you're doing this 365 days a year, then it's worth

1325
00:48:51.934 --> 00:48:53.734
sacrificing at least just one day-

1326
00:48:53.944 --> 00:48:54.154
Oh, my God. Yeah

1327
00:48:54.154 --> 00:48:55.344
... to go and do that.

1328
00:48:55.404 --> 00:48:58.574
Yep. If you sign up a few partners that make a difference,

1329
00:48:59.164 --> 00:49:01.464
it could just change your business all the way.

1330
00:49:01.524 --> 00:49:05.324
So it's a crazy amount of value. As a broker, you have to

1331
00:49:07.004 --> 00:49:08.784
see it in that light. "Hey, I'm going.

1332
00:49:08.824 --> 00:49:12.204
I want to shake hands." Luckily, you're making the conferences.

1333
00:49:12.284 --> 00:49:15.464
You're creating the space for us to do it. Go in there and do it.

1334
00:49:15.524 --> 00:49:15.934
You know what I mean?

1335
00:49:16.204 --> 00:49:19.184
Do you ever spy on other brokers there to kind of hear what they're saying or see

1336
00:49:19.204 --> 00:49:19.714
what they're doing?

1337
00:49:20.404 --> 00:49:23.784
Not necessarily spy. I actually like shaking hands with brokers, too.

1338
00:49:23.804 --> 00:49:23.854
Mm-hmm.

1339
00:49:24.054 --> 00:49:26.504
I'd be like, "Hey, want to share a game?" And they're like-

1340
00:49:26.584 --> 00:49:26.784
Yeah

1341
00:49:26.794 --> 00:49:28.004
... "Yeah." And I'm like, "Okay, cool. What do you use?

1342
00:49:28.064 --> 00:49:29.154
What do I use?" And we share a game.

1343
00:49:29.224 --> 00:49:29.334
Mm-hmm.

1344
00:49:30.084 --> 00:49:33.054
Super friendly competition. I like to give out free game all the time.

1345
00:49:33.074 --> 00:49:33.074
Yeah.

1346
00:49:33.074 --> 00:49:34.644
And my consensus is just, "Hey, take it.

1347
00:49:34.684 --> 00:49:37.804
Run with it." I do that because I wish I had that, right?

1348
00:49:37.914 --> 00:49:38.014
Mm-hmm.

1349
00:49:38.014 --> 00:49:40.564
So when I was learning, I never really had anybody teaching me.

1350
00:49:40.644 --> 00:49:41.024
Yeah.

1351
00:49:41.064 --> 00:49:42.194
So it's like, "Man, who could..."

1352
00:49:43.064 --> 00:49:44.804
There was never no Sam K.

1353
00:49:44.984 --> 00:49:45.154
Yeah.

1354
00:49:45.924 --> 00:49:48.634
So I would always look and say, "Hey, where can I find information?" There was

1355
00:49:48.664 --> 00:49:50.684
never raw broker info.

1356
00:49:50.944 --> 00:49:51.164
Mm-hmm.

1357
00:49:51.284 --> 00:49:52.964
So now I'm like, "You know what? I'm going to change that.

1358
00:49:53.004 --> 00:49:56.424
I'm going to be an outlet." Because there's nothing out there

1359
00:49:56.464 --> 00:50:00.424
on the broker side. So I just want to be an outlet where I can just give

1360
00:50:00.444 --> 00:50:01.264
information.

1361
00:50:01.364 --> 00:50:04.264
Yeah. I guess if you're a broker and you kind of want to

1362
00:50:05.264 --> 00:50:09.054
mingle with your peers in the space, even though you're here every

1363
00:50:09.124 --> 00:50:12.384
day cranking away, you're kind of alone with it all-

1364
00:50:12.684 --> 00:50:12.764
Yeah

1365
00:50:12.824 --> 00:50:16.804
... in a way. And you're not there

1366
00:50:16.844 --> 00:50:18.664
with your peers hearing their war stories-

1367
00:50:18.804 --> 00:50:18.864
Yeah

1368
00:50:18.874 --> 00:50:19.714
... and seeing if they're similar.

1369
00:50:20.024 --> 00:50:21.594
Maybe they have a different viewpoint on the industry.

1370
00:50:21.664 --> 00:50:22.624
Maybe your marketing has been

1371
00:50:23.764 --> 00:50:27.504
changed a bit, and you're like, "Okay, but that's my perspective.

1372
00:50:27.584 --> 00:50:29.164
What are my competitors-

1373
00:50:29.404 --> 00:50:29.464
Yeah

1374
00:50:29.684 --> 00:50:32.464
... facing? Is it different for them? Is it just me?

1375
00:50:32.484 --> 00:50:35.674
Do I need to be thinking about myself, or has something happened in the industry?"

1376
00:50:35.704 --> 00:50:38.724
I guess, where would you find that out if you weren't in the room with them?

1377
00:50:38.824 --> 00:50:40.504
You have to go. Yeah. I tell you,

1378
00:50:41.304 --> 00:50:45.164
when I go to the events, I have so many people there that I just

1379
00:50:45.204 --> 00:50:47.974
grew to love so much because, like you said, it's like your peers, right?

1380
00:50:48.084 --> 00:50:48.093
Mm-hmm.

1381
00:50:48.093 --> 00:50:50.714
You go and you're like, "Ah!" And that's where you just see them.

1382
00:50:50.744 --> 00:50:50.754
Yeah.

1383
00:50:50.764 --> 00:50:52.124
You don't see them at a bar.

1384
00:50:52.244 --> 00:50:52.254
Mm-hmm.

1385
00:50:52.264 --> 00:50:54.464
Sometimes they live in Florida, sometimes they live in California.

1386
00:50:54.964 --> 00:50:58.514
But when you go, it's like, "Ah!" So you just build these crazy relationships, and

1387
00:50:58.564 --> 00:51:00.284
it is just wonderful. I love it. I love it.

1388
00:51:00.784 --> 00:51:02.514
Yeah. I love it, too. I like to- ...

1389
00:51:03.404 --> 00:51:05.344
hang out with all my friends at one time.

1390
00:51:05.384 --> 00:51:08.284
Yeah. It's a lot of characters. We love it. I love it.

1391
00:51:08.864 --> 00:51:09.224
For sure.

1392
00:51:10.364 --> 00:51:14.334
Trying to think of anything else. I guess this year,

1393
00:51:14.884 --> 00:51:18.224
what are some things that you're seeing in the market that maybe

1394
00:51:18.884 --> 00:51:21.924
you could share? What are you seeing this year with the industry?

1395
00:51:21.964 --> 00:51:24.964
Anything top of mind that comes up?

1396
00:51:24.984 --> 00:51:25.974
And it's a little vague, but...

1397
00:51:26.484 --> 00:51:28.664
Yeah. Well, that's the most common question I get.

1398
00:51:29.364 --> 00:51:33.234
I bump into people. I live in the New York City area, so I actually bump into

1399
00:51:33.244 --> 00:51:35.884
people in the industry often enough, and that's the question.

1400
00:51:36.364 --> 00:51:39.024
People think if you're going to bump into me, what to ask me, and it's always- ...

1401
00:51:39.844 --> 00:51:41.394
what's new in the industry or what's happening in the industry.

1402
00:51:41.424 --> 00:51:44.514
They figure that I know. I would say

1403
00:51:46.004 --> 00:51:49.914
here's the great part about the industry now in 2026, so I've done it for 20

1404
00:51:49.924 --> 00:51:53.664
years, is that, and I was telling this to somebody else recently,

1405
00:51:54.044 --> 00:51:54.294
is that

1406
00:51:56.184 --> 00:51:59.724
sometimes when you've been in an industry for a while, it

1407
00:52:01.104 --> 00:52:02.864
can seem like the best days are behind you.

1408
00:52:02.964 --> 00:52:03.124
Mm-hmm.

1409
00:52:03.164 --> 00:52:06.954
And people who are now into 20 years will talk about the glory days

1410
00:52:07.364 --> 00:52:11.274
and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I think in this particular situation,

1411
00:52:11.304 --> 00:52:14.684
this industry, it's not like that at all. It's the complete opposite.

1412
00:52:14.724 --> 00:52:16.124
In fact, these are the glory days.

1413
00:52:16.204 --> 00:52:16.264
Yeah.

1414
00:52:16.313 --> 00:52:19.164
And I actually was too early, and I missed the glory days.

1415
00:52:19.464 --> 00:52:21.104
I'm still part of the industry, right?

1416
00:52:21.124 --> 00:52:24.944
But the things that you have at your disposal now, I didn't have.

1417
00:52:24.964 --> 00:52:28.454
And so it was actually a lot harder and a lot more frustrating-

1418
00:52:28.664 --> 00:52:28.964
Yeah

1419
00:52:29.054 --> 00:52:31.364
... to do back in the day. You have a lot of advantages

1420
00:52:32.324 --> 00:52:35.604
now. You have merchants at least

1421
00:52:35.664 --> 00:52:38.804
understanding the concept that there's non-bank money.

1422
00:52:38.864 --> 00:52:39.004
Yep.

1423
00:52:39.614 --> 00:52:40.124
Presumably.

1424
00:52:40.404 --> 00:52:40.564
Yeah.

1425
00:52:40.664 --> 00:52:44.464
There's a lot of different options out there, but they're familiar with the

1426
00:52:44.524 --> 00:52:46.484
concept that there's non-bank financing.

1427
00:52:46.664 --> 00:52:46.864
Yes.

1428
00:52:46.943 --> 00:52:50.924
Whereas 20 years ago, that was a whole other area you had to break through.

1429
00:52:51.904 --> 00:52:55.624
CRMs, we didn't really have. The regulatory uncertainty back

1430
00:52:55.724 --> 00:52:58.974
then was overbearing, and every day we were

1431
00:52:59.004 --> 00:53:00.844
told it's going to get regulated-

1432
00:53:00.854 --> 00:53:00.854
Yes

1433
00:53:00.854 --> 00:53:01.764
... and you're going to be out of a job.

1434
00:53:01.824 --> 00:53:05.494
It's no way to live and work when you're kind of having your

1435
00:53:05.504 --> 00:53:08.974
livelihood threatened, especially if you're in your mid-20s and you're hearing,

1436
00:53:08.974 --> 00:53:11.284
"This is going to be gone in a couple of years." I'm like-

1437
00:53:11.334 --> 00:53:11.814
Yeah. I would hear that all the time

1438
00:53:11.814 --> 00:53:13.764
... "Do I continue with this?"

1439
00:53:15.384 --> 00:53:17.104
We have a lot more regulatory certainty now.

1440
00:53:17.384 --> 00:53:17.513
Mm-hmm.

1441
00:53:17.513 --> 00:53:21.424
When we talk about disclosure laws and state this and state that, I'm sure you

1442
00:53:21.524 --> 00:53:22.584
at least hear about these things.

1443
00:53:22.614 --> 00:53:22.614
Yep. 100%.

1444
00:53:22.614 --> 00:53:26.284
And your funders probably tell you that we have a new requirement or a new form,

1445
00:53:26.564 --> 00:53:26.704
right?

1446
00:53:26.844 --> 00:53:26.964
Yeah.

1447
00:53:27.024 --> 00:53:28.484
That goes with the contract or whatever.

1448
00:53:29.454 --> 00:53:31.384
That's regulatory certainty.

1449
00:53:31.444 --> 00:53:31.524
Yeah.

1450
00:53:31.904 --> 00:53:35.454
That means you've been acknowledged and recognized as this is

1451
00:53:35.524 --> 00:53:38.124
legitimate product, and here's the proper way to do it.

1452
00:53:38.154 --> 00:53:40.604
And you can communicate that to the end user at the end of the day.

1453
00:53:41.104 --> 00:53:43.834
So these are the glory days. Now, in terms of

1454
00:53:44.204 --> 00:53:48.044
what's the state of the industry, this is the time to be in

1455
00:53:48.084 --> 00:53:48.244
it.

1456
00:53:48.404 --> 00:53:48.704
Yeah.

1457
00:53:49.124 --> 00:53:53.004
If you even think about, I did an analysis recently because there was a trend

1458
00:53:53.013 --> 00:53:56.324
that people were moving away from the MCA term to

1459
00:53:56.404 --> 00:53:57.684
revenue-based financing.

1460
00:53:57.824 --> 00:53:58.174
Mm-hmm.

1461
00:53:58.584 --> 00:54:00.624
And I understand why,

1462
00:54:01.504 --> 00:54:05.244
but what I've noticed is that as that has happened,

1463
00:54:05.904 --> 00:54:08.664
the fintech companies were doing the reverse.

1464
00:54:08.964 --> 00:54:09.304
Mm.

1465
00:54:09.484 --> 00:54:12.884
They were saying their product is a merchant cash advance.

1466
00:54:13.164 --> 00:54:16.684
So you have a publicly traded fintech saying it's

1467
00:54:16.804 --> 00:54:17.304
MCA.

1468
00:54:18.364 --> 00:54:21.184
It's not a revenue whatever. It's MCA.

1469
00:54:21.214 --> 00:54:21.214
Yeah.

1470
00:54:21.214 --> 00:54:22.274
And I'm like, "Oh, okay."

1471
00:54:22.544 --> 00:54:22.884
Yeah.

1472
00:54:23.224 --> 00:54:26.564
Yeah. We don't need to change the name of it. They're loud and clear.

1473
00:54:27.064 --> 00:54:30.684
But that helps because here's a publicly traded fintech company communicating to

1474
00:54:30.724 --> 00:54:34.704
the world, communicating to clients, merchants all over the country, this is an MCA

1475
00:54:34.744 --> 00:54:35.144
product.

1476
00:54:35.384 --> 00:54:35.524
Yeah.

1477
00:54:35.684 --> 00:54:39.044
And there's different variations of how it's done, but this is a legitimate

1478
00:54:39.064 --> 00:54:39.404
product.

1479
00:54:39.564 --> 00:54:39.664
Yeah.

1480
00:54:39.924 --> 00:54:42.568
They offer it, you offer it.You can get it.

1481
00:54:42.658 --> 00:54:42.878
Mm-hmm.

1482
00:54:42.948 --> 00:54:43.808
It's a real thing.

1483
00:54:44.768 --> 00:54:47.508
So in terms of what's new in the industry, you can always talk about like, "Oh,

1484
00:54:47.568 --> 00:54:50.427
there's new regulation," and that's always stuff we're going to hear.

1485
00:54:50.708 --> 00:54:50.828
Yes.

1486
00:54:51.128 --> 00:54:54.068
But now is the glory days of the industry.

1487
00:54:54.388 --> 00:54:56.148
I wish I started in it as a broker now.

1488
00:54:57.008 --> 00:54:59.708
And, of course, I could always decide, I could always hang up the jersey- ...

1489
00:54:59.718 --> 00:55:01.398
and go back to the phone if I really wanted.

1490
00:55:01.398 --> 00:55:02.538
No, we need you. We need you on the phone.

1491
00:55:02.538 --> 00:55:06.098
If I really wanted to. Yeah. But I don't think I'm needed in that

1492
00:55:06.128 --> 00:55:06.568
regard.

1493
00:55:08.028 --> 00:55:11.348
I kind of wanted to fulfill a role that we didn't have at all.

1494
00:55:11.748 --> 00:55:11.838
Yes.

1495
00:55:11.838 --> 00:55:13.907
And I'm very happy doing it, and I'm thankful for it.

1496
00:55:14.028 --> 00:55:16.028
It's a lot of fun and also a lot of hard work.

1497
00:55:16.188 --> 00:55:19.028
But if you're a broker or

1498
00:55:19.948 --> 00:55:21.698
even if you're a funder who's like, "What's going on

1499
00:55:22.508 --> 00:55:24.528
in the industry outside of your office-

1500
00:55:24.808 --> 00:55:24.968
Mm

1501
00:55:25.008 --> 00:55:28.068
... that maybe Sean Murray knows? What is Sean Murray thinking about all of this?

1502
00:55:29.528 --> 00:55:33.508
What is an industry trade publication thinking about all this?" Is that this is

1503
00:55:33.528 --> 00:55:34.628
the greatest time to do it.

1504
00:55:34.788 --> 00:55:34.798
Yeah.

1505
00:55:34.808 --> 00:55:38.668
You have AI technology. These are tools that can

1506
00:55:38.748 --> 00:55:39.348
help you-

1507
00:55:39.808 --> 00:55:39.948
Yeah

1508
00:55:40.008 --> 00:55:42.048
... that people didn't have before.

1509
00:55:42.108 --> 00:55:44.568
You were talking about noise-canceling headphones.

1510
00:55:44.788 --> 00:55:46.648
You can listen to music

1511
00:55:47.488 --> 00:55:48.728
while being on your calls.

1512
00:55:48.848 --> 00:55:49.028
While working. Yeah.

1513
00:55:49.108 --> 00:55:49.948
I didn't even have that.

1514
00:55:50.228 --> 00:55:50.528
Yeah.

1515
00:55:50.608 --> 00:55:54.068
I would think that would... I sat in a quiet room, literally stone-cold silent.

1516
00:55:54.448 --> 00:55:54.688
Same.

1517
00:55:54.708 --> 00:55:57.948
The least motivating environment I could imagine, and motivation had to come from

1518
00:55:57.988 --> 00:55:58.368
within.

1519
00:55:58.528 --> 00:55:58.768
Mm-hmm.

1520
00:55:58.828 --> 00:56:01.208
There was no external factors to motivate you.

1521
00:56:01.728 --> 00:56:03.968
You can do that now with technology and so-

1522
00:56:04.528 --> 00:56:04.538
Yeah

1523
00:56:04.538 --> 00:56:06.878
... man, what a cool time to be in the business.

1524
00:56:06.968 --> 00:56:09.208
That's my take on the state of the industry right now.

1525
00:56:09.488 --> 00:56:11.218
I am very excited about that. Actually, I'm

1526
00:56:12.088 --> 00:56:15.628
young, but I actually came from a little bit of that, and I'm kind of blessed to

1527
00:56:15.728 --> 00:56:16.648
say I did. Right? I

1528
00:56:17.688 --> 00:56:21.668
had a physical phone. My neck would hurt at the end of the day because

1529
00:56:21.708 --> 00:56:25.408
I had to do this. We had the COJ days.

1530
00:56:25.588 --> 00:56:25.828
Mm-hmm.

1531
00:56:26.008 --> 00:56:29.568
You had to wait three days to get a contract signed and sent through FedEx,

1532
00:56:29.908 --> 00:56:30.278
and then-

1533
00:56:30.348 --> 00:56:31.228
Wet signature.

1534
00:56:31.308 --> 00:56:34.448
Yeah. Wet signature, and there was no decision logic,

1535
00:56:34.888 --> 00:56:36.948
so there was a manual login process.

1536
00:56:37.528 --> 00:56:40.238
It was just three days to fund a deal. Right?

1537
00:56:40.268 --> 00:56:44.258
And it was painful. I remember running up to the little mail thing and like,

1538
00:56:44.598 --> 00:56:46.928
"Is my COJ in there?" So it's a different time.

1539
00:56:47.228 --> 00:56:49.128
Now, like you said, best time to do it.

1540
00:56:49.548 --> 00:56:52.968
There's so much tech, so much innovation, so many ways to generate leads.

1541
00:56:53.008 --> 00:56:54.688
It's a good time. It's a good time.

1542
00:56:55.088 --> 00:56:56.128
And there's

1543
00:56:57.028 --> 00:57:00.248
different factors I looked at in terms of how can we gauge whether or not the

1544
00:57:00.288 --> 00:57:01.148
market is saturated.

1545
00:57:01.308 --> 00:57:01.508
Mm-hmm.

1546
00:57:01.658 --> 00:57:04.808
And things like you just told me earlier where you have too many leads-

1547
00:57:05.008 --> 00:57:05.248
Yeah

1548
00:57:05.258 --> 00:57:07.528
... coming in. But I look at other factors, too.

1549
00:57:07.648 --> 00:57:11.288
One, the fintech companies that are offering a similar product are growing leaps

1550
00:57:11.328 --> 00:57:11.788
and bounds.

1551
00:57:11.968 --> 00:57:12.248
Yeah.

1552
00:57:12.288 --> 00:57:14.928
And what they are saying is that they're literally saying, "Our customers are

1553
00:57:14.988 --> 00:57:15.608
underserved."

1554
00:57:15.848 --> 00:57:16.068
Yes.

1555
00:57:16.208 --> 00:57:18.878
So how can the market be saturated when they're literally talking to their

1556
00:57:18.948 --> 00:57:21.348
customers and they're saying, "Are you getting the working capital you need?" And

1557
00:57:21.368 --> 00:57:22.028
they're like, "No."

1558
00:57:22.308 --> 00:57:22.527
Yeah.

1559
00:57:22.588 --> 00:57:25.168
And if you're a broker and you're like, "How can that be?

1560
00:57:25.248 --> 00:57:28.248
I thought every merchant was getting called 10 times a day." Well, apparently not

1561
00:57:28.308 --> 00:57:28.948
all merchants.

1562
00:57:29.008 --> 00:57:29.448
Yeah, they're not.

1563
00:57:29.608 --> 00:57:33.548
Apparently not all merchants. Or if they are, it's not being

1564
00:57:33.568 --> 00:57:34.088
received.

1565
00:57:34.108 --> 00:57:34.458
Mm-hmm.

1566
00:57:34.508 --> 00:57:37.828
And they are looking for working capital, but they've tuned out that method,

1567
00:57:38.328 --> 00:57:42.048
right? So, there's clearly underserved merchants there because

1568
00:57:42.088 --> 00:57:44.117
billions are being funded by the fintechs.

1569
00:57:44.148 --> 00:57:47.828
They're funding the same clients that you're calling, so clearly there is a need

1570
00:57:47.848 --> 00:57:51.777
that's being unfulfilled. You even have funders from Europe

1571
00:57:52.368 --> 00:57:56.228
and Canada coming to the US and saying, "Oh my

1572
00:57:56.308 --> 00:57:56.628
goodness-

1573
00:57:57.588 --> 00:57:59.208
... there's not enough funding to go around.

1574
00:57:59.308 --> 00:58:02.108
We're going to help save you, America, and fund your businesses."

1575
00:58:02.168 --> 00:58:02.238
Yeah.

1576
00:58:02.268 --> 00:58:03.188
This is literally happening.

1577
00:58:03.478 --> 00:58:03.498
No, really.

1578
00:58:03.518 --> 00:58:05.828
They're coming from the UK. They're coming from Ireland.

1579
00:58:06.268 --> 00:58:09.798
You have funders in Australia who are like, "Oh, America seems like there's not

1580
00:58:09.828 --> 00:58:12.008
enough capital for the merchants."

1581
00:58:12.068 --> 00:58:12.628
I love it.

1582
00:58:12.668 --> 00:58:16.528
How can that be? How can that be? Because I think you can live in a

1583
00:58:16.548 --> 00:58:20.188
world in which you think like, "Ah, every merchant's getting called 10 times.

1584
00:58:20.268 --> 00:58:23.608
It's oversaturated." It's the opposite.

1585
00:58:24.258 --> 00:58:26.928
It could just be your approach. It could be your lead source.

1586
00:58:27.088 --> 00:58:30.508
It could just be the way merchants receive the information.

1587
00:58:31.188 --> 00:58:34.608
It could be any number of factors, but we're being told

1588
00:58:35.188 --> 00:58:38.968
from those sources, and the volume is there to prove what they're telling you-

1589
00:58:39.088 --> 00:58:39.468
100%

1590
00:58:39.728 --> 00:58:41.608
... that the market is still underserved.

1591
00:58:41.688 --> 00:58:44.788
So imagine living in this day and age. You have all the technology.

1592
00:58:44.848 --> 00:58:47.188
Like I said, this is the best time to do it, and

1593
00:58:48.468 --> 00:58:49.428
the market is underserved.

1594
00:58:49.648 --> 00:58:49.768
Yeah.

1595
00:58:49.988 --> 00:58:53.908
Even OnDeck goes out and says, "It's a wide-open

1596
00:58:53.948 --> 00:58:54.268
market."

1597
00:58:54.528 --> 00:58:54.668
Yeah.

1598
00:58:54.878 --> 00:58:58.747
Right? And they have a little bit of their own rationale

1599
00:58:58.788 --> 00:59:02.307
for taking that position. Sure, they have competition even though they feel like

1600
00:59:02.348 --> 00:59:05.848
they don't. But they can control the volume that they fund.

1601
00:59:06.008 --> 00:59:06.328
Oh, yeah.

1602
00:59:06.508 --> 00:59:08.838
And how is that possible if the market is oversaturated?

1603
00:59:08.928 --> 00:59:09.028
Yeah.

1604
00:59:10.008 --> 00:59:13.868
They're telling you upfront, "Look, there's just unlimited opportunity."

1605
00:59:13.928 --> 00:59:14.228
Yeah.

1606
00:59:14.268 --> 00:59:15.408
So if you're a broker today...

1607
00:59:16.568 --> 00:59:20.468
Yeah. I always say volume negates luck, and I love

1608
00:59:20.568 --> 00:59:22.368
that saying from Alex Summersey.

1609
00:59:23.848 --> 00:59:25.728
Every time that I'm doing a marketing campaign,

1610
00:59:27.048 --> 00:59:30.598
you have to do more. If something works, and this is a fear that I get a lot from

1611
00:59:30.608 --> 00:59:33.118
brokers, they reach out to me all the time, and they complain about marketing

1612
00:59:33.188 --> 00:59:36.788
leads. "Oh, leads suck," this, that. I always have one question for them.

1613
00:59:37.138 --> 00:59:37.868
"How much are you spending?"

1614
00:59:38.668 --> 00:59:42.548
And they're like, "Ah, 5K." And I'm like, "Okay, how much are you

1615
00:59:42.608 --> 00:59:45.968
funding?" "50K." And I'm like, "Okay, so you're one to one.

1616
00:59:46.088 --> 00:59:48.828
Spend more, right?" Or sometimes they'll tell me, "Oh, we're doing a million a

1617
00:59:48.868 --> 00:59:51.708
month. I'm spending, like, 10K." I'm like, "You're printing money.

1618
00:59:51.828 --> 00:59:52.548
Spend more," right?

1619
00:59:52.558 --> 00:59:52.558
Yeah. Yeah.

1620
00:59:52.558 --> 00:59:56.228
They're going to fund more if you spend more. That goes back to the tracking data.

1621
00:59:57.068 --> 00:59:59.048
If you know where you're making your money, spend more of that. Right?

1622
00:59:59.128 --> 01:00:00.628
But by no means is the...

1623
01:00:01.688 --> 01:00:05.348
There's so much competition, so many shops, so many big

1624
01:00:05.408 --> 01:00:06.168
lenders, right?

1625
01:00:06.228 --> 01:00:06.238
Mm-hmm.

1626
01:00:06.238 --> 01:00:08.038
And they're spending money growing year over year.

1627
01:00:08.948 --> 01:00:12.208
We're not even close to tapping the market. Not even close. All of us combined.

1628
01:00:12.648 --> 01:00:12.748
So-

1629
01:00:13.008 --> 01:00:14.558
It's hard to wrap your mind around-

1630
01:00:14.588 --> 01:00:14.628
Yeah

1631
01:00:14.638 --> 01:00:15.358
... but it's the truth.

1632
01:00:15.668 --> 01:00:19.528
It's exciting. I get excited by that because it's like, what else can we

1633
01:00:19.568 --> 01:00:22.138
do? You know what I mean? And especially for the brokers that are joining, that are

1634
01:00:22.168 --> 01:00:25.928
growing. We're like ants. Don't worry about

1635
01:00:26.008 --> 01:00:29.368
saturating the market. Just spend more money, track your KPIs, make sure that it

1636
01:00:29.428 --> 01:00:31.708
works for you, and then scale the winning campaigns.

1637
01:00:31.768 --> 01:00:32.008
Mm-hmm.

1638
01:00:32.508 --> 01:00:33.648
That's the biggest takeaway I'd give.

1639
01:00:34.088 --> 01:00:34.568
Yeah.

1640
01:00:34.648 --> 01:00:34.788
Yeah.

1641
01:00:35.584 --> 01:00:39.014
I have vendors who work at our conferences, and they get

1642
01:00:39.064 --> 01:00:42.604
calls offering them funding. And they're like, "So these are the people who call

1643
01:00:42.664 --> 01:00:43.444
me, huh?"

1644
01:00:44.764 --> 01:00:45.504
I'm like, "Take your pick."

1645
01:00:45.724 --> 01:00:46.614
Yeah. I'll see you up.

1646
01:00:46.664 --> 01:00:48.203
Now it's your opportunity to meet them in person.

1647
01:00:49.624 --> 01:00:51.824
Answer the phones. I answer them. I get calls too sometimes.

1648
01:00:51.854 --> 01:00:51.984
Yeah, I get them too.

1649
01:00:52.004 --> 01:00:52.884
I get text messages.

1650
01:00:52.964 --> 01:00:53.104
I get them too.

1651
01:00:53.304 --> 01:00:55.104
I entertain them. I'm like, "Well, what do you got?"

1652
01:00:55.184 --> 01:00:55.444
Mm-hmm.

1653
01:00:55.584 --> 01:00:56.643
I like getting pitched, though.

1654
01:00:56.684 --> 01:00:56.694
Yeah.

1655
01:00:56.724 --> 01:00:59.604
I like when competitors call me, and they pitch me. I play along with it.

1656
01:00:59.644 --> 01:01:00.214
I love it.

1657
01:01:00.224 --> 01:01:00.924
You pretend like you're the merchant?

1658
01:01:00.964 --> 01:01:03.664
Oh, yeah. I have a blast. But you learn.

1659
01:01:03.694 --> 01:01:03.794
Mm-hmm.

1660
01:01:03.804 --> 01:01:06.804
I do it to learn. I just want to see what game they got, what could I pick up.

1661
01:01:07.124 --> 01:01:07.204
Mm-hmm.

1662
01:01:07.804 --> 01:01:10.074
But I have a blast. So definitely buy all...

1663
01:01:10.364 --> 01:01:13.764
It's not even close to getting saturated. It's a good thing for us.

1664
01:01:14.124 --> 01:01:15.624
Yeah, for sure. 2026.

1665
01:01:15.884 --> 01:01:16.054
That's it.

1666
01:01:16.054 --> 01:01:16.504
That's where it's at.

1667
01:01:16.644 --> 01:01:18.254
That's it. I'm excited. Yeah.

1668
01:01:18.284 --> 01:01:19.864
So in one of your videos,

1669
01:01:21.164 --> 01:01:25.084
you talked about how the merchants complain is basically that the money

1670
01:01:25.104 --> 01:01:26.444
is too expensive, and

1671
01:01:27.484 --> 01:01:31.054
if you're going to give them 75K and the payback is

1672
01:01:31.164 --> 01:01:33.584
let's say 110 or something, they're like, "What?

1673
01:01:33.694 --> 01:01:34.424
That's crazy."

1674
01:01:36.064 --> 01:01:39.463
You work your way to find out, well, what were

1675
01:01:39.524 --> 01:01:42.494
they, in their mind, willing to pay?

1676
01:01:42.924 --> 01:01:42.934
Mm-hmm.

1677
01:01:42.934 --> 01:01:43.254
Because

1678
01:01:44.204 --> 01:01:46.064
let's face it, if your main product is MCA-

1679
01:01:46.444 --> 01:01:46.524
Yeah

1680
01:01:46.584 --> 01:01:48.704
... cost is a component to every deal.

1681
01:01:48.984 --> 01:01:49.084
Yeah.

1682
01:01:49.364 --> 01:01:52.384
Maybe there's all these different ways of framing it and stuff like that, but your

1683
01:01:52.964 --> 01:01:54.424
cost is part of it.

1684
01:01:54.664 --> 01:01:54.714
Yeah.

1685
01:01:54.734 --> 01:01:57.464
And you don't have the advantage of a 5% APR-

1686
01:01:57.864 --> 01:01:57.984
Yeah

1687
01:01:58.224 --> 01:02:02.184
... interest rate on that product, so cost is going to be a component of that

1688
01:02:02.224 --> 01:02:03.284
deal, which means you have to

1689
01:02:04.264 --> 01:02:07.804
be prepared to accept that, first of all-

1690
01:02:08.104 --> 01:02:08.364
Yes

1691
01:02:08.584 --> 01:02:12.044
... and also own it in such a way that you feel

1692
01:02:12.144 --> 01:02:14.024
confident as to why it's valuable-

1693
01:02:14.354 --> 01:02:14.404
Yeah

1694
01:02:14.414 --> 01:02:18.264
... the product is valuable. You said earlier that if you come across

1695
01:02:18.604 --> 01:02:19.114
as

1696
01:02:21.144 --> 01:02:25.064
unconfident in it, it comes across that way.

1697
01:02:25.544 --> 01:02:26.164
It backfires.

1698
01:02:26.304 --> 01:02:30.184
It backfires on you. You have to believe in the

1699
01:02:30.224 --> 01:02:33.324
product and the offer that you're making to them.

1700
01:02:33.424 --> 01:02:36.444
And if you find that the cost is

1701
01:02:36.454 --> 01:02:39.584
essentially much higher than they were antici- it's blown past their

1702
01:02:39.664 --> 01:02:40.764
budget,

1703
01:02:42.304 --> 01:02:46.004
you got to work down to what were they expecting to pay?

1704
01:02:46.034 --> 01:02:46.034
Yeah.

1705
01:02:46.044 --> 01:02:47.204
Maybe you can elaborate.

1706
01:02:47.364 --> 01:02:51.024
Yeah. I think that a lot of closing can happen in the beginning.

1707
01:02:52.224 --> 01:02:54.504
We have a process where we like to

1708
01:02:55.824 --> 01:02:58.644
open up with the customer and say, "Hey, what are you looking to solve for?"

1709
01:02:58.744 --> 01:03:02.213
Because if I could understand in what areas I can help you in, then

1710
01:03:02.844 --> 01:03:05.084
the math is always going to math. I say math maths.

1711
01:03:06.004 --> 01:03:07.524
Because let's say, for example,

1712
01:03:08.644 --> 01:03:12.564
you meet a construction owner. And he tells you, "Sean,

1713
01:03:12.804 --> 01:03:16.674
I'm bidding on some contracts. If I land an 100K contract, that's going to mean the

1714
01:03:16.674 --> 01:03:20.064
world to us." So I know that there's a 10X

1715
01:03:20.104 --> 01:03:24.004
multiplier for the customer. So I'm going to take that

1716
01:03:24.044 --> 01:03:27.024
information down, and I'm going to say, "Okay, I'm excited now," because I know

1717
01:03:27.044 --> 01:03:29.844
that regardless of the factory we give them, it's a no-brainer.

1718
01:03:29.944 --> 01:03:32.664
I just have to make sure I get that message across.

1719
01:03:32.704 --> 01:03:35.024
So I think that a lot of closing happens in the beginning.

1720
01:03:35.044 --> 01:03:38.164
Preparation's super important. So what questions are you asking your customer to

1721
01:03:38.224 --> 01:03:39.734
best prep them for the information coming?

1722
01:03:40.444 --> 01:03:44.333
So I collect a lot of data up front. I always advise the customer,

1723
01:03:44.713 --> 01:03:47.504
"I just want to be clear. You can go the bank route.

1724
01:03:47.514 --> 01:03:48.844
These are the challenges we're going to face.

1725
01:03:48.884 --> 01:03:51.924
This is alternative, so you're not going to pay the same amount."

1726
01:03:52.024 --> 01:03:52.254
Mm-hmm.

1727
01:03:52.264 --> 01:03:53.974
I just like to set the expectation.

1728
01:03:54.304 --> 01:03:56.924
And then when the numbers come in, of course, it's going to be a lot.

1729
01:03:57.284 --> 01:04:00.004
And like I said it earlier, I don't shy away from it.

1730
01:04:00.304 --> 01:04:03.604
I pitch everything to the T. They know what they're netting, the fees, the payback

1731
01:04:03.664 --> 01:04:05.914
to factory. Sometimes I say, "Listen, this is a 1.30.

1732
01:04:06.524 --> 01:04:10.273
This one's a 1.49." I go right into it because the faster they know, the

1733
01:04:10.324 --> 01:04:13.144
better, and then we work towards finding that common ground.

1734
01:04:13.164 --> 01:04:17.104
But to the point is, if you know what they're going to accomplish,

1735
01:04:17.384 --> 01:04:19.024
a lot of times it makes sense to take it.

1736
01:04:19.424 --> 01:04:22.374
A lot of times business owners, they make the math in their head, and they say,

1737
01:04:23.094 --> 01:04:26.824
"Damn, if I take this money, I'm going to run dry and close shop."

1738
01:04:26.884 --> 01:04:29.944
But you're not factoring in what you're going to do with it and how much money you

1739
01:04:29.964 --> 01:04:33.264
can make as a result. So we want to make sure that if they're going to take the

1740
01:04:33.304 --> 01:04:35.624
capital, they're going to deploy it, that it's in a good use.

1741
01:04:35.684 --> 01:04:37.464
That way they're making more revenue.

1742
01:04:37.484 --> 01:04:41.224
And I can't tell you how many times we fund the customer, they come back for the

1743
01:04:41.244 --> 01:04:44.184
renewal, and it's like, "Good job, man. I see the revenue uptaking.

1744
01:04:44.244 --> 01:04:44.964
I'm super excited."

1745
01:04:45.044 --> 01:04:45.154
Mm-hmm.

1746
01:04:45.184 --> 01:04:49.174
We've helped customers go from a taco truck to a restaurant, two

1747
01:04:49.204 --> 01:04:51.623
locations. That's just exciting.

1748
01:04:51.944 --> 01:04:55.924
And if you're educating them the right way, and you say, "Hey, FYI

1749
01:04:55.944 --> 01:04:58.564
man, it's going to be expensive, so you better have a plan."

1750
01:04:58.764 --> 01:04:59.014
Mm-hmm.

1751
01:04:59.414 --> 01:05:02.344
And they go and execute on that plan, then it's a win-win.

1752
01:05:03.204 --> 01:05:06.044
So a lot of the closing could happen if you're preparing, and you're capturing the

1753
01:05:06.064 --> 01:05:09.214
right information. A lot of times, like you were saying earlier, when new guys are

1754
01:05:09.244 --> 01:05:12.824
learning, they get the offer, they just pitch the deal, they work like a horse,

1755
01:05:12.844 --> 01:05:15.924
they don't listen to the customer, they're just trying to get that deal through,

1756
01:05:15.964 --> 01:05:16.124
and-

1757
01:05:16.154 --> 01:05:16.224
Mm-hmm

1758
01:05:16.464 --> 01:05:20.164
... you miss so much information, and that's why it's challenging for a lot of new

1759
01:05:20.204 --> 01:05:23.664
people. So you have to capture enough information.

1760
01:05:23.684 --> 01:05:26.554
You have to make sure that you're helping the customer see the ROI because at that

1761
01:05:26.554 --> 01:05:27.823
point, it makes sense to pay a lot.

1762
01:05:27.864 --> 01:05:29.884
So you're asking, "Hey, what do you need the money for?"

1763
01:05:30.024 --> 01:05:30.354
Oh, yeah.

1764
01:05:30.444 --> 01:05:30.534
And

1765
01:05:31.344 --> 01:05:35.274
I think some people, maybe they hear the answer,

1766
01:05:35.324 --> 01:05:36.414
but they don't listen to the answer.

1767
01:05:36.734 --> 01:05:36.734
Yes.

1768
01:05:36.744 --> 01:05:37.924
And they're like, "Working capital."

1769
01:05:38.814 --> 01:05:39.004
Mm-hmm.

1770
01:05:39.564 --> 01:05:42.424
And they tune it out, and they go to, "What's the next question on my list?"

1771
01:05:42.644 --> 01:05:42.804
Yes.

1772
01:05:42.904 --> 01:05:46.324
But you're saying use that information and

1773
01:05:47.044 --> 01:05:48.004
use it productively-

1774
01:05:48.224 --> 01:05:48.434
Hundreds

1775
01:05:48.434 --> 01:05:51.384
... to figure out if what you're offering them fits within that plan.

1776
01:05:51.624 --> 01:05:51.764
Yeah.

1777
01:05:52.144 --> 01:05:55.264
So if they're going to get a 10X multiplier,

1778
01:05:55.984 --> 01:05:57.724
and like, "Hey, you're going to make

1779
01:05:58.904 --> 01:05:59.664
10 times,

1780
01:06:01.984 --> 01:06:03.474
but you only pay 40%,

1781
01:06:05.124 --> 01:06:06.304
this is a huge win."

1782
01:06:06.404 --> 01:06:06.544
Right.

1783
01:06:06.554 --> 01:06:10.014
"Yes, the money is expensive relatively-

1784
01:06:10.344 --> 01:06:10.434
Yeah

1785
01:06:10.524 --> 01:06:12.844
... but the profit margin is actually way more than that."

1786
01:06:12.924 --> 01:06:14.544
Yeah. And the delivery's key, too.

1787
01:06:15.064 --> 01:06:17.564
How you see me is how I pitch.

1788
01:06:18.724 --> 01:06:22.664
If they tell me, "Oh my God, 1.49," I'll say, "Man, but you're

1789
01:06:22.684 --> 01:06:24.464
in a 10X multiplier. I want to be in that business."

1790
01:06:24.544 --> 01:06:24.894
Mm-hmm.

1791
01:06:24.894 --> 01:06:28.304
If I can take a 1.49 and multiply it times X, I mean, I want to be in your

1792
01:06:28.324 --> 01:06:30.464
business. If I'm you, I'm signing with my eyes closed.

1793
01:06:30.524 --> 01:06:30.784
Mm-hmm.

1794
01:06:31.154 --> 01:06:34.024
So just delivery's super important. Tone is super important.

1795
01:06:34.884 --> 01:06:38.644
I like sounding very energetic. I want to be excited because if

1796
01:06:39.244 --> 01:06:42.416
you're excited, they're likeYeah, I think she's right.

1797
01:06:42.436 --> 01:06:42.466
Mm-hmm.

1798
01:06:42.876 --> 01:06:46.756
So making sure that you're collecting the information up front and, like

1799
01:06:46.796 --> 01:06:49.436
you said earlier, drilling down on the information is super important.

1800
01:06:49.456 --> 01:06:52.356
Never take that working capital as surface level.

1801
01:06:52.396 --> 01:06:52.596
Mm-hmm.

1802
01:06:53.016 --> 01:06:54.016
You want to understand what they're doing.

1803
01:06:54.156 --> 01:06:54.316
Mm-hmm.

1804
01:06:54.556 --> 01:06:58.536
I say, "Love that for us, but I need a little more information because it's

1805
01:06:58.556 --> 01:06:59.196
not cheap."

1806
01:06:59.216 --> 01:06:59.276
Mm-hmm.

1807
01:06:59.396 --> 01:07:02.536
It's not cheap, so if we can understand the logistics of how you're going to deploy

1808
01:07:02.576 --> 01:07:04.256
it, I think that we can make it work.

1809
01:07:04.296 --> 01:07:08.256
Are you saying if they tell you working capital, you say, "Okay, but what is it

1810
01:07:08.276 --> 01:07:08.696
really for?"

1811
01:07:08.756 --> 01:07:09.186
Yes, yeah.

1812
01:07:09.216 --> 01:07:10.346
Okay. You don't let them off the hook.

1813
01:07:10.656 --> 01:07:11.026
Can't do that.

1814
01:07:11.036 --> 01:07:12.316
Because you can't even do anything with that.

1815
01:07:12.416 --> 01:07:14.436
Yeah. Then it's going to become all about the numbers-

1816
01:07:14.476 --> 01:07:14.686
Mm-hmm

1817
01:07:14.686 --> 01:07:17.176
... all about the factory. Then they're just going to be comparing apples to

1818
01:07:17.196 --> 01:07:18.116
apples, different offers.

1819
01:07:18.146 --> 01:07:18.326
Mm-hmm.

1820
01:07:18.556 --> 01:07:21.486
If you can understand how they can make money with the money, then that's very

1821
01:07:21.516 --> 01:07:21.906
powerful.

1822
01:07:22.356 --> 01:07:26.046
So when the merchant tells you working capital, you're like, "That's great for us,

1823
01:07:26.436 --> 01:07:26.976
but-"

1824
01:07:26.986 --> 01:07:26.986
Right.

1825
01:07:26.986 --> 01:07:30.276
"... I also need to know a little bit more about what you actually plan to do."

1826
01:07:30.376 --> 01:07:33.546
Yeah, and I overexplain. I say- ... "That's awesome.

1827
01:07:33.776 --> 01:07:34.956
I need to understand a little bit better."

1828
01:07:35.056 --> 01:07:35.066
Yeah.

1829
01:07:35.116 --> 01:07:38.756
Reason why is because this is not bank money.

1830
01:07:38.766 --> 01:07:41.556
You're going to pay a little bit more for the capital, so we have to have a plan in

1831
01:07:41.576 --> 01:07:45.556
place. And 100K's a lot of money, so are you saying that you're going to get a

1832
01:07:45.576 --> 01:07:48.896
wire and use it in one shot, or how are we going to break this apart?

1833
01:07:49.196 --> 01:07:52.056
And I try to get as much information as possible.

1834
01:07:52.376 --> 01:07:56.236
Sometimes when I do that, after we hang up the phone, they email me stuff.

1835
01:07:56.266 --> 01:07:59.776
"Oh, hey, this is my accounts receivable report by the way, since you asked." And

1836
01:07:59.816 --> 01:08:02.176
they get really invested with you because it's very different.

1837
01:08:02.336 --> 01:08:04.516
That person is actually listening. They care.

1838
01:08:04.596 --> 01:08:08.296
They're interested in how you're going to move things around, and it's just way

1839
01:08:08.356 --> 01:08:11.316
more effective. And I only know this because I've lost so many deals.

1840
01:08:11.336 --> 01:08:11.696
Mm-hmm.

1841
01:08:12.396 --> 01:08:14.216
I've lost, and I've lost a lot of deals.

1842
01:08:14.336 --> 01:08:18.316
And what I said in the beginning was every time I lost, I was

1843
01:08:18.376 --> 01:08:21.007
like, "Well, why?" Did I just not connect enough?

1844
01:08:21.076 --> 01:08:24.257
Did I not understand their business? Did I not get the right information?

1845
01:08:24.496 --> 01:08:27.177
What can I do better to fund more deals?

1846
01:08:27.656 --> 01:08:31.536
And I find that understanding the business owner and drilling down on the

1847
01:08:31.596 --> 01:08:34.036
use of funds is probably one of the most important things.

1848
01:08:35.337 --> 01:08:39.036
So you're able to sort of self-diagnose and

1849
01:08:39.096 --> 01:08:42.516
self-correct. Now, if somebody is brand new, they may

1850
01:08:42.556 --> 01:08:45.726
encounter in their first couple months a lot of

1851
01:08:46.137 --> 01:08:47.316
losses on deals, right?

1852
01:08:47.356 --> 01:08:47.366
Yeah.

1853
01:08:47.366 --> 01:08:49.596
Because they're kind of iterating themselves.

1854
01:08:50.297 --> 01:08:53.116
I guess, how do you

1855
01:08:55.416 --> 01:08:56.536
know if you have what it takes?

1856
01:08:59.916 --> 01:09:00.876
I would say

1857
01:09:01.696 --> 01:09:04.056
you want to vet the company you're working for.

1858
01:09:04.096 --> 01:09:04.205
Mm-hmm.

1859
01:09:05.217 --> 01:09:08.705
You want to make sure that tech is there, especially in the era that we're in,

1860
01:09:09.876 --> 01:09:13.047
and that they have training, because training is super important.

1861
01:09:13.936 --> 01:09:17.066
I can't tell you how many times I onboard people and they're like, "Wow, there's

1862
01:09:17.116 --> 01:09:18.696
training here? That's good."

1863
01:09:18.906 --> 01:09:19.177
Mm-hmm.

1864
01:09:19.226 --> 01:09:22.257
They come from industries, car sales, solar, and they're like, "Wait, you show

1865
01:09:22.276 --> 01:09:24.797
people how to make money?" I'm like, "Yeah, we train."

1866
01:09:24.936 --> 01:09:25.106
Mm-hmm.

1867
01:09:25.776 --> 01:09:29.257
So I would say for someone coming in, put yourself in the best possible

1868
01:09:29.266 --> 01:09:31.976
vehicle. Make sure that there's training, that you're getting taught the right way,

1869
01:09:32.016 --> 01:09:35.376
and then you've got to work. No one's going to come hand you that deal.

1870
01:09:35.396 --> 01:09:37.356
You have to hit the phones. You have to make enough calls to win.

1871
01:09:37.837 --> 01:09:41.717
Volume is important. If you're dialing a few times, you're not going to

1872
01:09:41.757 --> 01:09:45.677
win, so you just have to hit enough call counts, send enough messages to give

1873
01:09:45.696 --> 01:09:49.677
yourself a shot at winning. So I would say having the right vehicle

1874
01:09:49.776 --> 01:09:52.137
and working is important.

1875
01:09:52.656 --> 01:09:56.636
How important is role-playing in training? Is there role-playing?

1876
01:09:56.796 --> 01:10:00.696
Oh, yeah. We role-play every day. I think that I love it because it

1877
01:10:00.716 --> 01:10:02.456
gets the marbles out. That's what we call it.

1878
01:10:02.556 --> 01:10:06.136
So in the morning, waking up, you have a coffee.

1879
01:10:06.856 --> 01:10:10.776
Monday, Tuesday, you're tired. So first thing we do when we come in

1880
01:10:10.836 --> 01:10:14.216
is, "All right, break up into groups, grab your scripts, let's pitch."

1881
01:10:14.476 --> 01:10:15.925
And what's cool about it is

1882
01:10:16.896 --> 01:10:19.896
I tell my team, "Don't be the good customer. Be the one that's difficult.

1883
01:10:19.996 --> 01:10:22.796
Be the one that doesn't want it. Be the one that hanged up on you.

1884
01:10:23.056 --> 01:10:25.156
Be difficult so you can see how your peers get around it."

1885
01:10:25.336 --> 01:10:25.616
Mm-hmm.

1886
01:10:25.676 --> 01:10:27.796
And they pick up a lot of game. They learn from each other.

1887
01:10:28.736 --> 01:10:30.776
Yeah, we do it every day. It's non-negotiable. Every day.

1888
01:10:32.136 --> 01:10:36.096
Yeah. There's so much to learn from each other that, I mean, yeah, it gets your

1889
01:10:36.156 --> 01:10:39.596
voice going. You learn from each other. Super important.

1890
01:10:39.796 --> 01:10:43.336
One very underestimated thing in the space

1891
01:10:43.456 --> 01:10:45.236
is knowing where to place your deals.

1892
01:10:45.296 --> 01:10:45.396
Mm-hmm.

1893
01:10:45.416 --> 01:10:49.246
It's super important. It piggybacks off having the right CRMs.

1894
01:10:50.596 --> 01:10:54.276
Sometimes not knowing where to send your files can cost you a lot of money.

1895
01:10:54.636 --> 01:10:58.476
And what I always put out there and tell my

1896
01:10:58.536 --> 01:11:00.046
team is, "You have to know what you're reading.

1897
01:11:00.336 --> 01:11:03.436
You have to learn how to read bank statements, look at your applications,

1898
01:11:03.476 --> 01:11:07.036
understand credit, understand risk a little bit." Because if you don't,

1899
01:11:07.206 --> 01:11:07.976
and if your deal

1900
01:11:09.876 --> 01:11:12.316
is not placed in the most competitive box, you're going to get smoked.

1901
01:11:12.596 --> 01:11:12.756
Mm-hmm.

1902
01:11:12.926 --> 01:11:16.436
And lender placement is extremely important from a broker perspective.

1903
01:11:16.496 --> 01:11:20.236
So to give you an example, if you have a customer who has been in

1904
01:11:20.276 --> 01:11:23.746
business for 10 years and has impeccable credit,

1905
01:11:24.536 --> 01:11:28.196
and you place it in the wrong box, you're not going to get an offer competitive

1906
01:11:28.236 --> 01:11:31.616
enough. And if you're competing, you're not going to win.

1907
01:11:31.676 --> 01:11:35.566
So just understanding what you're reading, understanding the business,

1908
01:11:35.636 --> 01:11:38.396
understanding these risk factors are crucial to

1909
01:11:39.096 --> 01:11:42.476
funding bigger deals, making more money in this space.

1910
01:11:43.556 --> 01:11:47.496
What about just time to respond to a merchant's

1911
01:11:47.796 --> 01:11:50.356
inquiry? You're getting inbound-

1912
01:11:50.556 --> 01:11:50.616
Yeah

1913
01:11:50.636 --> 01:11:53.876
... inbound leads, but it's possible these merchants

1914
01:11:53.976 --> 01:11:57.876
are sort of finding their way to multiple sources at once.

1915
01:11:57.936 --> 01:12:01.636
How important is it to be one of the first points of contact with them-

1916
01:12:01.646 --> 01:12:01.646
Yeah

1917
01:12:01.646 --> 01:12:03.246
... when they're looking, or is it important?

1918
01:12:03.516 --> 01:12:05.936
Oh, yeah. Speed to lead. There's so much data to back that.

1919
01:12:05.976 --> 01:12:06.006
Mm-hmm.

1920
01:12:06.416 --> 01:12:09.916
You have to call within a minute. If you're not, you better have technology to call

1921
01:12:09.936 --> 01:12:13.496
within a minute. Because there are people out there that are doing it.

1922
01:12:13.956 --> 01:12:16.336
You said earlier it's super competitive, so

1923
01:12:17.136 --> 01:12:20.276
I always think, "What is my competitor doing?" I'm pretty sure they're dialing

1924
01:12:20.476 --> 01:12:22.956
ASAP, so you must dial within one minute.

1925
01:12:23.176 --> 01:12:25.676
If you're at the bathroom, whatever, figure it out.

1926
01:12:26.156 --> 01:12:29.736
Have the technology in place to back you up. But speed to lead is super important.

1927
01:12:29.816 --> 01:12:32.136
So you could actually risk a deal by going to the bathroom?

1928
01:12:32.496 --> 01:12:35.776
There's a chance. There's a chance. You've got to think about it.

1929
01:12:35.856 --> 01:12:38.316
If you're getting leads, let's say from Meadow-

1930
01:12:38.476 --> 01:12:38.636
Mm-hmm

1931
01:12:38.646 --> 01:12:38.646
...

1932
01:12:40.016 --> 01:12:41.176
Meadow's not only serving your ad.

1933
01:12:41.396 --> 01:12:41.875
Mm-hmm.

1934
01:12:41.896 --> 01:12:44.536
There's no shot. And I get served ads all the time.

1935
01:12:44.976 --> 01:12:48.884
So if you're seeing, let's say, a Redline ad-Two scrolls down, you're going to

1936
01:12:48.924 --> 01:12:50.173
see the next competitor's ad-

1937
01:12:50.264 --> 01:12:50.273
Mm-hmm

1938
01:12:50.273 --> 01:12:53.283
... because the person's expressed some sort of interest in getting money.

1939
01:12:53.544 --> 01:12:57.534
So if I'm interested in getting capital and I see one ad and I see the other

1940
01:12:57.584 --> 01:12:58.784
one, I'm like, "Hey, let me see what they got.

1941
01:12:58.824 --> 01:13:01.444
Let me see what they got." So a lot of times you are competing.

1942
01:13:02.144 --> 01:13:03.644
So you have to call that lead ASAP.

1943
01:13:04.084 --> 01:13:04.304
Wow.

1944
01:13:04.624 --> 01:13:04.744
Yeah.

1945
01:13:04.824 --> 01:13:08.544
So your ROI and the way you judge a lead is also based

1946
01:13:08.584 --> 01:13:10.884
upon how fast you were able to respond to that lead.

1947
01:13:11.024 --> 01:13:14.684
Because the leads could be really good, but you waited too long to call them.

1948
01:13:14.864 --> 01:13:14.904
Yeah.

1949
01:13:14.934 --> 01:13:16.984
And your first thought could be the leads are actually not good.

1950
01:13:17.084 --> 01:13:17.174
Mm-hmm.

1951
01:13:17.224 --> 01:13:18.644
The leads were good, but you waited too long.

1952
01:13:18.804 --> 01:13:18.904
Yeah.

1953
01:13:18.964 --> 01:13:21.084
Do you have to grapple with these different things?

1954
01:13:21.184 --> 01:13:23.684
Yeah. You have to- ... definitely call quick.

1955
01:13:24.244 --> 01:13:27.844
I can't tell you how many times I've tested a certain lead source where a colleague

1956
01:13:27.884 --> 01:13:31.754
says, "Oh, that's terrible. It doesn't work." And I'm like, "Hmm.

1957
01:13:32.244 --> 01:13:34.793
But I wonder if he called as many times as I would," right?

1958
01:13:34.804 --> 01:13:34.814
Mm-hmm.

1959
01:13:34.814 --> 01:13:38.204
"Or as fast as I would." Test out the same source, and we blow it out the water.

1960
01:13:38.504 --> 01:13:38.684
So-

1961
01:13:39.044 --> 01:13:39.844
Because you were just quicker.

1962
01:13:40.104 --> 01:13:43.544
Yes, quicker. And if you can be faster than your competitors, you're going to have

1963
01:13:43.564 --> 01:13:46.804
a lot of success because you want to be better than the average.

1964
01:13:46.933 --> 01:13:46.933
Mm-hmm.

1965
01:13:46.964 --> 01:13:49.364
So you have to be faster. You have to have technology.

1966
01:13:49.464 --> 01:13:51.384
You have to get to it before anybody can.

1967
01:13:51.644 --> 01:13:55.344
And a lot of times if you can get those things right, you're going to have success.

1968
01:13:55.384 --> 01:13:59.244
But speed to lead is-- If you're a sales organization, that has to be

1969
01:13:59.324 --> 01:14:00.484
your bread and butter.

1970
01:14:00.784 --> 01:14:00.964
Mm-hmm.

1971
01:14:01.044 --> 01:14:01.864
You have to be fast.

1972
01:14:02.864 --> 01:14:06.374
I feel as though the lead companies that sell leads, that's one of their biggest

1973
01:14:06.404 --> 01:14:09.994
hurdles is they sell leads, and they're often told, "Oh, your leads

1974
01:14:10.224 --> 01:14:13.894
suck. They're terrible." And they're like, "Ah, our leads are good,"

1975
01:14:14.764 --> 01:14:17.624
but you were poor in responding to them.

1976
01:14:17.664 --> 01:14:21.214
You waited a day to get back to them, and by that time it was

1977
01:14:21.544 --> 01:14:22.464
too late. You know what I mean?

1978
01:14:22.524 --> 01:14:22.544
Yeah.

1979
01:14:22.564 --> 01:14:26.004
So you're unfairly judging the quality of my leads because you

1980
01:14:26.484 --> 01:14:28.384
weren't able to get to them in a certain amount of time.

1981
01:14:28.644 --> 01:14:28.784
Yeah.

1982
01:14:29.864 --> 01:14:32.424
Like you were saying earlier, the business they're in, they're in the business of

1983
01:14:32.464 --> 01:14:34.284
getting told that their data is bad.

1984
01:14:35.744 --> 01:14:37.824
I'm sure that's all they deal with, right?

1985
01:14:37.914 --> 01:14:37.914
Mm-hmm.

1986
01:14:37.924 --> 01:14:41.654
And the ones that they can keep, and they're producing and they're tracking their

1987
01:14:41.704 --> 01:14:42.194
sources-

1988
01:14:42.304 --> 01:14:42.484
Mm-hmm

1989
01:14:42.624 --> 01:14:43.764
... then they'll probably scale those up.

1990
01:14:44.954 --> 01:14:48.624
But one thing that I think is helpful for data companies is stats.

1991
01:14:48.664 --> 01:14:52.224
You need stats. Anytime I get on a marketing call with a team or we want to try a

1992
01:14:52.244 --> 01:14:52.724
new vendor,

1993
01:14:53.924 --> 01:14:57.864
I'm very quick to ask for stats because the calls can go good

1994
01:14:57.904 --> 01:15:01.644
when you're trying to onboard a new partner, a new vendor, whatever, and

1995
01:15:01.944 --> 01:15:03.404
they're like, "Yeah, we're the best. We do this.

1996
01:15:03.444 --> 01:15:06.964
Our speed, real leads," this, that. And then I'm like, "Okay, I need to see data.

1997
01:15:07.224 --> 01:15:08.964
I need to see lead conversion numbers.

1998
01:15:09.084 --> 01:15:12.484
And I don't know if your partners are sharing that, but I want to see what's in the

1999
01:15:12.524 --> 01:15:12.904
market-

2000
01:15:12.964 --> 01:15:12.974
Mm-hmm

2001
01:15:12.974 --> 01:15:15.004
... so that we can best judge if it's going to be a fit."

2002
01:15:16.224 --> 01:15:20.124
So, having data to back you is super important, I would say for the lead

2003
01:15:20.164 --> 01:15:24.144
vendors. You have to know, like, "Hey, my customers are saying for every 100 leads

2004
01:15:24.184 --> 01:15:26.044
they buy, they're funding three of them.

2005
01:15:26.084 --> 01:15:29.474
This is what's industry standard." Just having that expectation set so that

2006
01:15:30.244 --> 01:15:32.244
the relationships are long-lasting.

2007
01:15:33.044 --> 01:15:36.324
For sure. How important is renewals to being a broker?

2008
01:15:36.664 --> 01:15:39.784
Yeah. It's so important. There was a time where I didn't have a renewal

2009
01:15:39.794 --> 01:15:41.204
department.

2010
01:15:41.244 --> 01:15:42.344
You have a whole department for it now.

2011
01:15:42.424 --> 01:15:43.504
Yeah, we have a renewal department.

2012
01:15:43.884 --> 01:15:47.234
There was a time where I didn't, and I have a colleague in the space, and he's

2013
01:15:47.264 --> 01:15:51.204
like, "You're crazy." He's like, "You're crazy," because

2014
01:15:51.264 --> 01:15:53.164
it's literally what keeps shops afloat.

2015
01:15:53.724 --> 01:15:57.584
Sometimes, when you're spending money on inbound and marketing, meta, whatever,

2016
01:15:57.984 --> 01:15:59.124
a lot of times you're not profitable.

2017
01:15:59.724 --> 01:16:03.204
So you need those renewals to kind of back you up.

2018
01:16:03.864 --> 01:16:05.924
There's months where sometimes it's half the revenue.

2019
01:16:06.224 --> 01:16:08.864
So it's essential to shops.

2020
01:16:09.364 --> 01:16:10.644
There is a

2021
01:16:13.484 --> 01:16:15.404
phrase you used that you're building a book-

2022
01:16:15.824 --> 01:16:15.874
Yes

2023
01:16:15.884 --> 01:16:19.814
... of business, right? Would renewals be considered like a book, like building a

2024
01:16:19.864 --> 01:16:20.344
book?

2025
01:16:20.404 --> 01:16:20.504
It's the book. Yes.

2026
01:16:20.524 --> 01:16:21.244
It's the book.

2027
01:16:21.284 --> 01:16:21.784
It's the book.

2028
01:16:23.104 --> 01:16:27.094
The best feeling ever is when you work with your customers so many

2029
01:16:27.124 --> 01:16:29.644
times that they know when it's time.

2030
01:16:29.764 --> 01:16:33.234
You get to a point where I have customers that call me, and they're like, "What

2031
01:16:33.244 --> 01:16:36.184
percentage am I in?" And I'm like, "Well, right now we're at like 48.

2032
01:16:36.304 --> 01:16:38.624
Give it like two weeks because I want to make sure the net makes sense, unless you

2033
01:16:38.684 --> 01:16:42.064
want to ask for it now, but..." So they get to a point where they're kind of

2034
01:16:42.124 --> 01:16:45.244
already knowing how they're going to deploy it, when it's time to get more,

2035
01:16:45.584 --> 01:16:47.004
and it's the book.

2036
01:16:47.244 --> 01:16:51.004
So that's an incentive to be a broker is that you're not just doing every month is

2037
01:16:51.044 --> 01:16:53.423
brand new. You're also building up a book.

2038
01:16:53.624 --> 01:16:54.384
A book of business, yeah.

2039
01:16:54.424 --> 01:16:54.804
Legitimately.

2040
01:16:55.164 --> 01:16:57.884
Yeah. And you have to pay attention to the book.

2041
01:16:58.024 --> 01:17:00.704
You have to be on top of it because if you're not,

2042
01:17:01.324 --> 01:17:03.244
someone's going to fund your customer.

2043
01:17:03.384 --> 01:17:03.504
Mm-hmm.

2044
01:17:03.584 --> 01:17:06.944
So just being diligent and reaching out to the customers, making sure they're okay,

2045
01:17:07.484 --> 01:17:08.584
getting your touchpoints in there,

2046
01:17:09.524 --> 01:17:12.024
and they'll get to a point where they know when it's time.

2047
01:17:12.084 --> 01:17:14.104
It's the best thing ever. I get calls-

2048
01:17:14.144 --> 01:17:15.164
And they're like, "It's time."

2049
01:17:15.284 --> 01:17:18.064
It's time. They'll check in with me and say, "How's everything, Nicole?" Great.

2050
01:17:18.604 --> 01:17:19.344
"Where am I at?"

2051
01:17:19.584 --> 01:17:19.654
Mm-hmm.

2052
01:17:19.944 --> 01:17:23.824
And it's everything. I can't imagine getting to

2053
01:17:24.404 --> 01:17:25.684
anywhere without my renewals.

2054
01:17:26.624 --> 01:17:30.324
So if you're a broker out there, part of the advantage of being a broker is

2055
01:17:30.444 --> 01:17:31.624
the renewal.

2056
01:17:31.964 --> 01:17:32.104
Yeah.

2057
01:17:32.984 --> 01:17:33.304
It's going to

2058
01:17:34.144 --> 01:17:36.904
save your butt. Renewals is how I survived COVID.

2059
01:17:37.564 --> 01:17:41.164
In a time where new businesses weren't being funded,

2060
01:17:42.504 --> 01:17:46.414
brick and mortars were shut down, and it was insane, I literally paid my bills with

2061
01:17:46.424 --> 01:17:49.794
my renewals. It's insane. Same customers, they powered through.

2062
01:17:49.794 --> 01:17:52.144
"Hey, I'm good. It's not affecting me.

2063
01:17:52.184 --> 01:17:55.064
Here's my bank statements," and it's literally powerful.

2064
01:17:55.344 --> 01:17:55.824
That's awesome.

2065
01:17:56.214 --> 01:17:56.214
Yeah.

2066
01:17:56.264 --> 01:17:59.804
So potentially your incomes could go like that because you're building up a book.

2067
01:18:00.044 --> 01:18:00.204
Yep.

2068
01:18:00.344 --> 01:18:00.444
Right?

2069
01:18:00.804 --> 01:18:04.364
That's why I said year one, it's a lot of collecting new data, right?

2070
01:18:04.374 --> 01:18:06.904
As a broker, you're trying to build that book.

2071
01:18:07.524 --> 01:18:10.204
Year two, you have your customers that are repeat.

2072
01:18:10.484 --> 01:18:13.944
Year three, if you're doing what you have to do and you're working really hard, you

2073
01:18:13.984 --> 01:18:17.584
take off because you have a book of business that you're funding new deals,

2074
01:18:17.664 --> 01:18:21.524
but you have your repeat customers where you get reoccurring

2075
01:18:21.824 --> 01:18:22.634
revenue. It's awesome.

2076
01:18:22.634 --> 01:18:25.764
I like what you say year two, year three, because you're basically emphasizing it

2077
01:18:25.804 --> 01:18:27.564
takes long-term effort.

2078
01:18:27.624 --> 01:18:27.944
Yes.

2079
01:18:27.984 --> 01:18:30.724
This is not an overnight, "I'm going to work here for a week, and I'm going to make

2080
01:18:30.764 --> 01:18:31.484
a million dollars."

2081
01:18:31.504 --> 01:18:31.754
Yeah.

2082
01:18:32.344 --> 01:18:35.864
Long-term effort, and you have to have what it takes, and you have to do all the

2083
01:18:35.924 --> 01:18:38.104
things that the training tells you to do-

2084
01:18:38.284 --> 01:18:38.554
Mm-hmm

2085
01:18:38.624 --> 01:18:40.174
... for these things to be reality. Is that right?

2086
01:18:40.244 --> 01:18:41.184
100%.

2087
01:18:42.544 --> 01:18:44.684
As I mentioned earlier, there is a learning curve.

2088
01:18:44.784 --> 01:18:48.624
So if you come into the space with that mindset of, "Okay, I'm going to go through

2089
01:18:48.664 --> 01:18:52.484
Rikers Island first year, first 30 days," and get

2090
01:18:52.584 --> 01:18:53.214
around that learning curve-

2091
01:18:53.304 --> 01:18:56.084
Do they get visitors at Rikers when you're in Rikers?

2092
01:18:56.313 --> 01:18:56.313
Right.

2093
01:18:57.924 --> 01:18:59.164
They get visitors, they get leads.

2094
01:19:00.084 --> 01:19:01.824
But it's tough. And

2095
01:19:03.084 --> 01:19:06.024
if you can get around that and be in the right environment where there's training,

2096
01:19:06.384 --> 01:19:07.704
you get paid to learn-

2097
01:19:07.964 --> 01:19:08.084
Mm-hmm

2098
01:19:08.124 --> 01:19:10.804
... essentially. So it's pretty cool, but it takes time.

2099
01:19:11.024 --> 01:19:14.964
I've yet to meet someone coming in under a year

2100
01:19:15.164 --> 01:19:17.044
making a million dollars. I have never met that person yet.

2101
01:19:17.184 --> 01:19:17.964
I've never met them either.

2102
01:19:19.244 --> 01:19:21.864
Might be out there, but I haven't met them. So it takes time.

2103
01:19:22.804 --> 01:19:26.534
Well, Nicole, thank you very much for your time here at Red Line

2104
01:19:26.604 --> 01:19:27.824
Capital. Really appreciate it.

2105
01:19:28.304 --> 01:19:30.464
Likewise. It's been a blast. I hope you've had a blast.

2106
01:19:30.824 --> 01:19:33.914
I've had a blast, yeah. It's awesome what you've built here, and

2107
01:19:34.364 --> 01:19:35.144
congratulations.

2108
01:19:35.284 --> 01:19:35.584
Thank you.

2109
01:19:36.504 --> 01:19:37.104
Lot of hard work.

2110
01:19:37.564 --> 01:19:41.384
All right. So from Sean Murray at Debanked, I am signing off.

2111
01:19:41.484 --> 01:19:42.404
I'll see you next time.