1 00:00:00.300 --> 00:00:02.340 Sean Murray: You've written some crypto content in fact our 2 00:00:02.340 --> 00:00:04.470 crypto content has kind of increased in the last few 3 00:00:04.470 --> 00:00:08.040 months. Because you you've been putting a little bit of focus on 4 00:00:08.040 --> 00:00:10.950 that on that space. And I know that you've even gone to some of 5 00:00:10.950 --> 00:00:16.800 the, the NFT and crypto events. Yep. What's, you know, what do 6 00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:18.540 you think about crypto in general? Do you have thoughts 7 00:00:18.540 --> 00:00:20.610 about like the industry or the concept? 8 00:00:21.410 --> 00:00:24.170 Adam Zaki: I think that there's some legitimacy in the 9 00:00:24.170 --> 00:00:26.930 fundamentals of cryptocurrency things like blockchain 10 00:00:26.930 --> 00:00:30.020 technology, and objective ledger, all that stuff will have 11 00:00:30.020 --> 00:00:33.110 a place in finance, it already does if brokers had a place 12 00:00:33.110 --> 00:00:35.360 where they can go and get all the information in one spot and 13 00:00:35.360 --> 00:00:38.210 share it with each other, have access to credit scores, you 14 00:00:38.210 --> 00:00:40.820 know bank transaction history, all that stuff for any merchant 15 00:00:40.820 --> 00:00:42.920 that you needed, and all the merchant have to do is give you 16 00:00:42.920 --> 00:00:45.470 a password, you have access their entire entire financial 17 00:00:45.470 --> 00:00:48.440 history in one spot. It's beautiful brokers would kill for 18 00:00:48.440 --> 00:00:51.830 that. Right. And I think that that is where the technology 19 00:00:51.830 --> 00:00:54.980 will serve the financial community is in the fundamentals 20 00:00:54.980 --> 00:00:58.490 of the way it works. Bored apes, crypto punks, all that stuff. 21 00:00:58.790 --> 00:01:01.550 It's part of the hype. Yeah, you go to these shows, it's so 22 00:01:01.550 --> 00:01:05.360 funny. I go to you post a like a an alternative financer in 23 00:01:05.360 --> 00:01:09.290 LinkedIn, does, so well, you post a crypto post on LinkedIn 24 00:01:09.830 --> 00:01:10.490 does nothing, 25 00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:13.680 Sean Murray: I think and I just got to say, because I think that 26 00:01:13.680 --> 00:01:16.740 some people think that there's no link between the two, 27 00:01:17.460 --> 00:01:19.740 alternative finance and crypto, that crypto Is this, like 28 00:01:19.770 --> 00:01:24.750 isolated, you know, kind of like craze. Yeah, that ultimately is 29 00:01:24.750 --> 00:01:28.740 not going to play a factor in the rest of it. Like having 30 00:01:28.740 --> 00:01:30.870 interviewed tons of people now in that space and met a lot of 31 00:01:30.870 --> 00:01:32.760 the shows. I mean, do you think that's correct? 32 00:01:33.240 --> 00:01:35.970 Adam Zaki: I think that people who are in this space and a lot 33 00:01:35.970 --> 00:01:38.850 about money, and they don't want to be perceived, that they don't 34 00:01:38.850 --> 00:01:42.120 know a lot about money. So they want to project that hey, I know 35 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:46.800 about crypto I'm in the space. So I think that it's a great way 36 00:01:46.800 --> 00:01:49.470 for people in finance to you know, if they don't trust the 37 00:01:49.470 --> 00:01:51.810 dollar they can use it as a savings account. Go put, you 38 00:01:51.810 --> 00:01:54.420 know, put 10 grand in Bitcoin. Yeah. Rather than put it in 39 00:01:54.420 --> 00:01:57.060 your, you know, a CD in a bank. If you want to do that. That's 40 00:01:57.060 --> 00:02:00.480 fine. But once again, I think it comes down to the fundamentals 41 00:02:00.660 --> 00:02:04.110 of blockchain technology. That's where finance will be able to 42 00:02:04.110 --> 00:02:07.620 leverage this. I don't think pictures of animals or know all 43 00:02:07.620 --> 00:02:10.860 these random coin Shiba coin, maybe Dogecoin cause Elon Musk 44 00:02:10.860 --> 00:02:13.950 isn't so into Dogecoin. But these random coins you've never 45 00:02:13.950 --> 00:02:16.950 heard of, and these pictures of all these animals. It's part of 46 00:02:16.950 --> 00:02:20.190 the hype. It's like the.com Bubble really is. But just like 47 00:02:20.190 --> 00:02:24.510 how we all type in.com Every day, blockchain technology will 48 00:02:24.540 --> 00:02:27.270 eventually be a part of all of our lives. We see out for a male 49 00:02:27.270 --> 00:02:30.780 using NFT's to attract service history on cars, whether that's 50 00:02:30.780 --> 00:02:34.230 marketing, or whether that's true innovation. It's probably 51 00:02:34.230 --> 00:02:36.840 more marketing. Yeah. But you know, once again, you see that 52 00:02:36.900 --> 00:02:39.780 there's legitimacy in the technology. So it's not 53 00:02:39.780 --> 00:02:41.970 something to just dismiss and throw away, you can't look at 54 00:02:41.970 --> 00:02:45.570 crypto and go, this is garbage. You're being naive three, four 55 00:02:45.570 --> 00:02:47.250 years ago, you could have said that and that would have been 56 00:02:47.250 --> 00:02:50.970 okay. But now it's you're being naive if you don't recognize the 57 00:02:50.970 --> 00:02:54.420 legitimacy of blockchain tech. Objective Ledger's that kind of 58 00:02:54.420 --> 00:02:57.720 thing, a place where anybody can go get access to information 59 00:02:57.960 --> 00:03:01.170 that if it is altered it can it you can see who altered the 60 00:03:01.170 --> 00:03:06.000 information. Yeah, having access to universal places of data, 61 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:09.750 it's a no brainer for the finance world open banking be 62 00:03:09.750 --> 00:03:12.450 solved with Blockchain technology. But I think the 63 00:03:12.450 --> 00:03:14.670 people in power are a little bit older, they don't understand the 64 00:03:14.670 --> 00:03:17.310 technology. Government has no idea what's going on with 65 00:03:17.310 --> 00:03:20.040 cryptocurrency and digital assets. So it's a little bit 66 00:03:20.040 --> 00:03:22.980 ahead of its time right now. But I think we'll see 5, 10, 15 67 00:03:22.980 --> 00:03:26.220 years down the road, we will all know what an NFT is. And we will 68 00:03:26.220 --> 00:03:29.250 not have a problem explaining exactly what it is. 69 00:03:29.250 --> 00:03:30.650 Sean Murray: You know, it's crazy about the whole thing 70 00:03:30.650 --> 00:03:32.960 about saying it's ahead of its time, and it's so new and all 71 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:36.350 that stuff that Bitcoin is at this point, like what, like 14 72 00:03:36.350 --> 00:03:39.080 years old, something something like 14 years old, I think it is 73 00:03:39.080 --> 00:03:43.460 now so it's not that new. Right? That's but that's Bitcoin. And 74 00:03:43.460 --> 00:03:46.460 then you have ethereum, which is kind of like the second most 75 00:03:46.460 --> 00:03:50.900 popular, which has been around for less time, but still, you 76 00:03:50.900 --> 00:03:56.060 know, more than more than five years. And I start to wonder, at 77 00:03:56.060 --> 00:03:59.900 what point do you know at what point do you decide like, Yes, 78 00:03:59.900 --> 00:04:04.010 this is here to stay versus no this is just kind of like a 79 00:04:04.010 --> 00:04:08.360 short term thing. I feel like Bitcoin having survived a decade 80 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:13.400 and a half is a good indication of like longevity. Like that's 81 00:04:13.430 --> 00:04:17.090 even even even if it's had ups and downs, the fact that it's 82 00:04:17.090 --> 00:04:20.750 still there, right. And I think some people, they look at the 83 00:04:20.750 --> 00:04:25.250 price and they draw conclusions about bitcoin's utility, based 84 00:04:25.250 --> 00:04:28.850 on just the the fluctuation of the price, which I think is 85 00:04:28.850 --> 00:04:31.640 incorrect. I think, my own personal opinion, I'm just 86 00:04:31.640 --> 00:04:35.810 talking but I think that if you just look at the fact that so 87 00:04:35.810 --> 00:04:38.900 many people are still using Bitcoin for whatever purpose it 88 00:04:38.900 --> 00:04:43.550 is, is a good indication of it going to be around for a lot 89 00:04:43.580 --> 00:04:47.810 longer. Also, for those who were already adults, when Bitcoin 90 00:04:47.810 --> 00:04:51.620 came out, we're all thinking about whether or not this is 91 00:04:51.620 --> 00:04:55.430 going to last versus if bitcoin was part of your life when you 92 00:04:55.430 --> 00:04:59.780 were a kid. You kind of accepted that being part of the world 93 00:04:59.810 --> 00:05:03.260 right? It's kind of like, right like it was, it's been there, 94 00:05:03.300 --> 00:05:04.380 Adam Zaki: You're a crypto native, 95 00:05:04.450 --> 00:05:06.430 Sean Murray: Your a crypto native, it's like, it's hard for 96 00:05:06.430 --> 00:05:10.330 us to believe. If something didn't exist 10 years before we 97 00:05:10.330 --> 00:05:13.990 were born, right? And you're like, it's the it was the olden 98 00:05:13.990 --> 00:05:16.630 days, because it existed when you were a kid, right? And 99 00:05:16.630 --> 00:05:19.030 someone tries to tell you like, Well, when I was your age, I 100 00:05:19.030 --> 00:05:20.800 didn't think this whole thing was gonna pan out. Some people 101 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:22.690 didn't think the internet was gonna pan out. And people think 102 00:05:22.690 --> 00:05:25.870 computers were gonna pan out. I did, because I grew up with the 103 00:05:25.870 --> 00:05:28.960 internet as a kid, or in computers as a kid, not not in 104 00:05:28.960 --> 00:05:33.100 the, not in the very beginning. But when I was like, 12, 13, 14, 105 00:05:33.280 --> 00:05:37.000 and for me, this was definitely going to be the future. But for 106 00:05:37.060 --> 00:05:41.170 adults, at that age, there was all this. Well, who knows? You 107 00:05:41.170 --> 00:05:44.200 know, how, you know, we have fax machines already, like, we can 108 00:05:44.200 --> 00:05:46.810 go to the library, you know, they were all kind of hedging 109 00:05:46.810 --> 00:05:49.360 their bets and waiting to see if this would like kind of pan out. 110 00:05:50.380 --> 00:05:53.440 But if bitcoin was already a thing, and I have to, you know, 111 00:05:53.440 --> 00:05:58.390 I tell kids today, I'm like we didn't have cell phones. When we 112 00:05:58.390 --> 00:06:00.370 were kids, you couldn't just go around and take pictures. They 113 00:06:00.370 --> 00:06:04.120 can't imagine it, right? Like, now you tell them like, Oh, we 114 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:06.250 didn't have Bitcoin? When we were a kid. We didn't have 115 00:06:06.250 --> 00:06:08.830 cryptocurrency, when we were a kid they actually can't imagine 116 00:06:08.830 --> 00:06:11.830 it. Because they've always, they've always known it was 117 00:06:11.830 --> 00:06:14.050 there. Even if they didn't use it, it was it was already out 118 00:06:14.050 --> 00:06:17.950 there. It was, it was a thing, right? It existed. It's like 119 00:06:17.950 --> 00:06:22.720 part of the makeup of the world. Like if you were born, maybe I'm 120 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:26.950 maybe I'm just talking too much now. But if you like, I think 121 00:06:26.950 --> 00:06:30.700 about this kind of stuff, sometimes where humans have this 122 00:06:30.700 --> 00:06:35.650 tendency to accept that which we were, we have always been 123 00:06:35.650 --> 00:06:39.220 introduced to. So that if you know if we were two, three years 124 00:06:39.220 --> 00:06:43.030 old, and you saw people flying in the air, you would just be 125 00:06:43.030 --> 00:06:45.700 like people can fly in the air. Yeah. And that's just the way it 126 00:06:45.700 --> 00:06:48.640 is. Right? And if they told you that, you know, in the olden 127 00:06:48.640 --> 00:06:51.820 days, people couldn't fly in the air, like, well, that's crazy. 128 00:06:52.090 --> 00:06:54.850 What do you mean, they couldn't always fly in the air? And I 129 00:06:54.850 --> 00:07:00.460 think that this, this kind of feeds into this where it's just, 130 00:07:00.670 --> 00:07:04.420 this is how is this is how it's going to be like it is once it 131 00:07:04.420 --> 00:07:07.570 happens. It's just the fabric of the world, you know, and humans 132 00:07:07.570 --> 00:07:10.120 just start to accept it, especially if they hear about it 133 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:12.790 from a very young age. I actually do think about the 134 00:07:12.790 --> 00:07:14.950 whole thing about if we have been born if people flew around 135 00:07:14.950 --> 00:07:17.860 the world kinda like Santa Claus. Yeah, people accept it as 136 00:07:17.860 --> 00:07:20.860 true. Doesn't matter how it works. It's just the way the 137 00:07:20.860 --> 00:07:23.800 world of course theres Santa he's at Macy's? He's at the 138 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:26.200 mall. That's. right. 139 00:07:26.250 --> 00:07:28.680 Adam Zaki: There's no Bitcoin right now is like a boogeyman to 140 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:30.660 a lot of people hear about it, but they don't see it. They 141 00:07:30.660 --> 00:07:32.910 don't touch it. They don't interact with it. That's what we 142 00:07:32.910 --> 00:07:33.150 need. 143 00:07:33.180 --> 00:07:34.980 Sean Murray: But if you were like seven, eight years old, I 144 00:07:34.980 --> 00:07:39.570 was I was following DOA recently. Yep. And the leader of 145 00:07:39.570 --> 00:07:42.390 the DOA, I found this after like, two or three weeks of 146 00:07:42.390 --> 00:07:44.820 being like, yeah, this DAO was so cool. That the leader was 147 00:07:44.820 --> 00:07:48.300 like 16 years old. And I was like, you're still in high 148 00:07:48.300 --> 00:07:51.510 school, right? But he had this huge following online. Yeah. 149 00:07:52.260 --> 00:07:57.390 Like a very experienced coder. His coding skills, you know, far 150 00:07:57.390 --> 00:08:03.180 outpaced mine. spoke the lingo, the language. And when I found 151 00:08:03.180 --> 00:08:07.080 out he was a high school kid, it just blew my mind. Because to 152 00:08:07.080 --> 00:08:10.620 him, this was the normal fabric of the world. Yeah, right. And 153 00:08:10.620 --> 00:08:14.580 here, he was just so fortunate to be a leader in what he 154 00:08:14.580 --> 00:08:17.580 accepts as normal, whereas we're still like, are these things 155 00:08:17.580 --> 00:08:20.910 gonna pan out. Is this just a fad, right? 156 00:08:21.660 --> 00:08:23.670 Adam Zaki: But then, you know, to flip that around, if 157 00:08:23.670 --> 00:08:27.360 everything wants to go belly up, that kid that you met would have 158 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:31.290 no idea what to do. Yeah, for us with experience outside of the 159 00:08:31.290 --> 00:08:34.860 crypto world, we know that this might not work. So in the back 160 00:08:34.860 --> 00:08:37.530 of our minds, you know, I'm not putting all my money into 161 00:08:37.530 --> 00:08:41.460 Bitcoin. But a kid like that probably would might use Bitcoin 162 00:08:41.460 --> 00:08:44.730 as a savings account. Yeah. Which at 18 years old, or 16 163 00:08:44.760 --> 00:08:47.460 years old, it's like the dumbest thing you could do. But there's 164 00:08:47.490 --> 00:08:50.220 a plenty. There's a lot of people out there that are doing 165 00:08:50.220 --> 00:08:53.730 just that. Yeah. That are using crypto using apps like Coinbase 166 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:58.590 as a savings account, which is no bueno. Definitely not good. 167 00:08:58.620 --> 00:09:00.690 Sean Murray: Yeah. Yeah. You know, there's, there's, there's 168 00:09:00.690 --> 00:09:03.750 a flip side to all of it, right? Yeah. Is that you don't want to 169 00:09:03.750 --> 00:09:06.720 buy into the hype. You want to hedge your bets, because we've 170 00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:10.560 also seen in our in our lifetimes, things rise, and then 171 00:09:10.560 --> 00:09:15.690 crash. Yeah. And so it's weird. It's also weird how human nature 172 00:09:15.690 --> 00:09:19.350 has like works in cycles, like, home values shoot up, and 173 00:09:19.740 --> 00:09:21.960 everything's amazing. And we're like, the party seems like it 174 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:25.050 will never end and then all sudden, it ends. Yeah. And for 175 00:09:25.050 --> 00:09:28.080 the, for the young person. They it's like, this, like, earth 176 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:30.990 shattering moment of, I can't believe this happened. Whereas 177 00:09:30.990 --> 00:09:33.450 someone who's been around for several decades, is like, this 178 00:09:33.450 --> 00:09:36.510 always happens. This is what I was saying. Yep, of course, this 179 00:09:36.510 --> 00:09:37.470 was gonna happen, right? 180 00:09:37.470 --> 00:09:39.270 Adam Zaki: But then that kid will turn into that guy, and 181 00:09:39.270 --> 00:09:41.520 then something new will come along, and the cycle just just 182 00:09:41.520 --> 00:09:43.680 Sean Murray: Continues, continues with everything. But 183 00:09:43.680 --> 00:09:47.190 then but along the way, we still adopt new things like the 184 00:09:47.190 --> 00:09:50.130 internet just like became part of the fabric of like the world. 185 00:09:50.730 --> 00:09:55.860 And I have to think that things like Bitcoin will will too, 186 00:09:55.920 --> 00:09:59.010 which is why we still write about it and why we still talk 187 00:09:59.010 --> 00:10:03.390 about it. And it's because for me personally, it's because 188 00:10:03.390 --> 00:10:06.990 there is an underlying utility to Bitcoin, I do not care about 189 00:10:06.990 --> 00:10:10.320 the price. That's the least important thing to me. If 190 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:13.710 Bitcoin was just an asset that you could trade, we wouldn't be 191 00:10:13.710 --> 00:10:16.590 writing about it if that's if that's what it was to me, we 192 00:10:16.590 --> 00:10:18.660 wouldn't write about it because we're not here to write about, 193 00:10:18.690 --> 00:10:21.030 you know, Wall Street trading. That's just not what we write 194 00:10:21.030 --> 00:10:25.020 about. Bitcoin is about being able to move money outside the 195 00:10:25.020 --> 00:10:28.980 banking system. That's it, we're deBanked. It's a no brainer, you 196 00:10:28.980 --> 00:10:32.730 have to write about it. Yeah. Right. It's impossible to ignore 197 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:36.150 the ability to move money outside of banking. And I think 198 00:10:36.150 --> 00:10:42.360 that, for those who work in the complicated world of finance, 199 00:10:43.020 --> 00:10:46.470 they see the value of being able to do that, too. Because once 200 00:10:46.470 --> 00:10:49.890 you reach a certain level in your life, you realize that it 201 00:10:49.890 --> 00:10:53.490 can be difficult being restricted by banks. But also 202 00:10:53.490 --> 00:10:55.590 even if even if you haven't gotten there, if you're the 203 00:10:55.590 --> 00:10:57.990 underserved people talk about the underserved too. They don't 204 00:10:57.990 --> 00:11:00.210 have a bank account. Lots of people don't have bank accounts, 205 00:11:00.390 --> 00:11:03.150 they rely on like payday loans, like the, the check cashing 206 00:11:03.150 --> 00:11:06.960 place, cash, only cash under the mattress, all that other stuff. 207 00:11:07.560 --> 00:11:09.240 And here, all of a sudden, Bitcoin provides that 208 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:12.870 opportunity to hold on to money outside of banking, transfer 209 00:11:12.870 --> 00:11:16.500 money to someone else outside of banking, right? Yeah. You say, 210 00:11:16.500 --> 00:11:19.140 Well, you can buy a visa, you know, debit cards at the store 211 00:11:19.140 --> 00:11:22.380 and all that stuff. Yeah, I guess maybe. But you know, what, 212 00:11:22.380 --> 00:11:24.930 who controls that debit card at any point, you know, Visa, 213 00:11:24.930 --> 00:11:26.910 whatever, it could just erase the balance, freeze the car, 214 00:11:26.910 --> 00:11:30.540 whatever. Yeah, this says you are the owner of that money, and 215 00:11:30.540 --> 00:11:33.690 you can transfer it to whoever you want. And I think if you 216 00:11:33.690 --> 00:11:37.260 look at the global, you know, the global landscape, there's a 217 00:11:37.260 --> 00:11:41.040 lot of things that governments say they don't want you to do. 218 00:11:41.070 --> 00:11:43.620 You can't do they have questions about what you're doing. Like if 219 00:11:43.620 --> 00:11:46.260 you if you have family back home in another country and you want 220 00:11:46.260 --> 00:11:48.330 to send them some money in there, like, who are they? Why 221 00:11:48.330 --> 00:11:50.580 are you sending it? You can't send it, let me look into why 222 00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:54.630 you're sending in news like, you know, like, well, I just want to 223 00:11:54.630 --> 00:11:59.490 send my family money. Bitcoin is cure for that. It's not. It's 224 00:11:59.490 --> 00:12:01.890 not like it's anonymous, but allows you to make the 225 00:12:01.890 --> 00:12:06.030 transaction without anyone saying that you can't. And this 226 00:12:06.030 --> 00:12:09.840 is going to be something that the world sees value in, I think 227 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:13.890 forever, which in my opinion, is why you and I are still going to 228 00:12:13.890 --> 00:12:15.660 be writing about crypto and Bitcoin. 229 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:18.510 Adam Zaki: I think that we got to the idea of Bitcoin, 230 00:12:18.900 --> 00:12:22.440 representing the entire blockchain is no good. That's 231 00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:24.780 true. I think we need to and you're not the only person that 232 00:12:24.780 --> 00:12:27.690 does this. I do it too where instead of like, when we talk 233 00:12:27.690 --> 00:12:30.780 about the blockchain, we use the word Bitcoin. We need to use the 234 00:12:30.780 --> 00:12:34.080 word blockchain. That's true, because that's where the value 235 00:12:34.080 --> 00:12:37.230 lies. Bitcoin is just another coin. It goes like this. The 236 00:12:37.230 --> 00:12:39.810 blockchain is the fundamentals. It's like if you're talking 237 00:12:39.810 --> 00:12:43.230 about baseball, not just going to talk about the Yankees. Well, 238 00:12:43.230 --> 00:12:45.930 it's about baseball. Well, while you're in New York, my point is, 239 00:12:46.110 --> 00:12:49.650 is that bitcoins just a part of the entire process. And then 240 00:12:49.650 --> 00:12:53.970 people just focus on Bitcoin as blockchain technology, which is 241 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:56.730 so far from the truth. And if you really look into what 242 00:12:56.730 --> 00:13:00.540 blockchain technology is, the between flash loans and the 243 00:13:00.540 --> 00:13:04.620 ledgers I mean, we've written about it. It's truly the value 244 00:13:04.620 --> 00:13:08.010 is limitless, you know, it's not leveraged in whoever does is 245 00:13:08.010 --> 00:13:09.660 going to make a boatload of cash. 246 00:13:09.990 --> 00:13:13.050 Sean Murray: Yeah. Once they capitalize on the utility aspect 247 00:13:13.050 --> 00:13:17.610 of it, you know, I we look at what Jack Dorsey is doing over 248 00:13:17.610 --> 00:13:20.220 at Square which is now blocked. Yep. And he's known as like a 249 00:13:20.220 --> 00:13:23.190 Bitcoin Maxy. Because Bitcoin you were talking about 250 00:13:23.190 --> 00:13:26.250 blockchain. You were saying it's fun it's about blockchain. You 251 00:13:26.250 --> 00:13:29.520 had Jack Dorsey saying no, it's about Bitcoin. But Jack Dorsey 252 00:13:29.520 --> 00:13:34.320 is a smart person. Like really smart, right? And he's kind of 253 00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:37.620 gone all in on the concept of Bitcoin. And sure, his firm 254 00:13:37.620 --> 00:13:41.190 makes a lot of money off of selling and stuff. But I think 255 00:13:41.220 --> 00:13:44.100 ultimately, he recognized he's sort of, he's kind of like the 256 00:13:44.130 --> 00:13:48.240 anarchist, you know, like, like, you know, segment of Silicon 257 00:13:48.270 --> 00:13:50.460 Valley's of tech, even in the, you know, what I mean? Like, 258 00:13:50.460 --> 00:13:53.640 anti this anti that, you know, with the big beard and all and 259 00:13:53.640 --> 00:13:59.460 all that other stuff, right? He, he, though, is very smart. And I 260 00:13:59.460 --> 00:14:03.300 like watching and seeing what he's doing what he's saying, 261 00:14:03.330 --> 00:14:07.680 even if I sometimes don't agree with it. Because I think he is 262 00:14:07.680 --> 00:14:11.490 right on the part that this stuff is not going to go away. 263 00:14:11.730 --> 00:14:14.880 And when people are like, why are you writing about this 264 00:14:14.880 --> 00:14:18.870 stuff? You know, in a world of like lending, it's because well, 265 00:14:18.870 --> 00:14:22.200 so many people for years in lending have been trying to 266 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:25.050 figure out how can we get money to people the fastest? How can 267 00:14:25.050 --> 00:14:28.860 get money to people that you know, the cheapest, and payments 268 00:14:28.890 --> 00:14:32.490 is inevitably tied into lending. No matter what I've heard about 269 00:14:32.490 --> 00:14:35.580 it nonstop for more than a decade. We're going to use the 270 00:14:35.580 --> 00:14:38.730 credit card processing to take a percentage we need to ACH the 271 00:14:38.730 --> 00:14:42.900 account. Next ACH isn't enough. We need to do same day ACH and 272 00:14:42.900 --> 00:14:45.420 the problem with ACH is that once you do the ACH it takes 273 00:14:45.420 --> 00:14:47.790 five days to clear the ACH we need to figure out a new way to 274 00:14:47.790 --> 00:14:50.130 do the payment it's a whole thing yeah, all you people 275 00:14:50.130 --> 00:14:52.410 worrying about payments all day long. And then someone comes in 276 00:14:52.410 --> 00:14:54.180 says hey, you do this for payments. Why you talking about 277 00:14:54.180 --> 00:14:57.960 payments? You know why? What is this? Right? We're like we're 278 00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:01.200 lending companies. I don't want to hear about payments. Sorry, 279 00:15:01.230 --> 00:15:06.480 this is payments. It's a no, the massively disruptive part of 280 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:09.240 payments that I think that everyone needs to pay attention 281 00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:11.850 to, no matter what part of finance you're working, 282 00:15:12.090 --> 00:15:15.030 especially in lending. Yeah, there's already somebody in this 283 00:15:15.030 --> 00:15:17.550 industry in this particular small business finance industry 284 00:15:17.550 --> 00:15:21.840 who's already using crypto as a way to fund businesses 285 00:15:21.900 --> 00:15:24.540 instantly. Yeah, that person that business owner is like, 286 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:27.480 that's great that you can ACH me tomorrow, I need the money right 287 00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:31.230 now. Or I'm talking to three of your competitors first person to 288 00:15:31.230 --> 00:15:34.440 get get me the money is the winner, I'll sign that contract? 289 00:15:35.250 --> 00:15:38.250 You're gonna What are you gonna be like, Well, no, I don't like 290 00:15:38.250 --> 00:15:41.490 crypto so and then the person who was crypto is gonna be like, 291 00:15:41.970 --> 00:15:44.490 I win. Yep. There's value in that 292 00:15:44.490 --> 00:15:47.106 Adam Zaki: Theres value, too. I mean, especially talking about 293 00:15:47.158 --> 00:15:50.134 the approval process, you're gonna merchants credit sucks. 294 00:15:50.185 --> 00:15:53.366 You got a 400 credit score. But on the blockchain, they borrow 295 00:15:53.417 --> 00:15:56.547 money and pay back well, and they have a blockchain as credit 296 00:15:56.598 --> 00:15:59.780 score, you can justify funding them. That's true, you know, so 297 00:15:59.831 --> 00:16:02.704 there's, there's so many different ways that lenders can 298 00:16:02.756 --> 00:16:05.834 utilize this. And I know that the buzzwords Bitcoin, crypto, 299 00:16:05.885 --> 00:16:09.067 NFT they're sick of it. But they just they're gotta take their 300 00:16:09.118 --> 00:16:12.094 lender hat off and put their learning hat on. And take out 301 00:16:12.145 --> 00:16:15.224 the whether or not the number is going up aspect. They'll go 302 00:16:15.275 --> 00:16:18.354 well, Bitcoin is down now or this crypto is down now. That's 303 00:16:18.405 --> 00:16:21.330 not what crypto is. And that's not why we write about it. 304 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:24.450 No, not at all. I don't care about the value of any coin. You 305 00:16:24.450 --> 00:16:27.750 know, I mean, in my deBanked life, the money in crypto a 306 00:16:27.750 --> 00:16:30.150 little bit. Yeah, but but in terms of the turnout enough for 307 00:16:30.150 --> 00:16:34.830 him to be completed. Not at all, less than $100. My point is, is 308 00:16:34.830 --> 00:16:39.030 like I think that the value is not in the coins. It's not in 309 00:16:39.030 --> 00:16:42.600 the up and down. Don't look at a graph read. That's how you 310 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:43.890 should that's how you should learn about blockchain 311 00:16:43.890 --> 00:16:46.710 technology. Forget about the graphs, forget about the values, 312 00:16:47.100 --> 00:16:50.730 read and watch videos of people explaining it. That's how I 313 00:16:50.730 --> 00:16:50.970 learned 314 00:16:51.030 --> 00:16:53.850 Sean Murray: The utility of it. The utility of not now what 315 00:16:53.850 --> 00:16:56.700 about which one's gonna go up? You know, like, what cause I do 316 00:16:56.700 --> 00:16:59.250 get that question? Sean, you know, it seems like you know, 317 00:16:59.250 --> 00:17:02.280 about crypto, which one should I buy? Which one's going up? Like, 318 00:17:02.730 --> 00:17:04.140 yeah, that's just give up. Now. 319 00:17:04.170 --> 00:17:05.880 Adam Zaki: That's I asking, that's like asking somebody, 320 00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:06.930 what stock should I buy? 321 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:09.840 Sean Murray: It's the exact same exact sentence. It's the exact 322 00:17:09.840 --> 00:17:14.850 same. No there's utility to it. And once once people realize 323 00:17:14.850 --> 00:17:19.170 what the utility is, and how they can capitalize on that 324 00:17:19.170 --> 00:17:22.530 utility in whatever business they're in, in finance, or 325 00:17:22.530 --> 00:17:26.100 whatever it is, that's when that's when you'll be able to 326 00:17:26.100 --> 00:17:30.870 really make a difference and continue your business for the 327 00:17:30.870 --> 00:17:31.380 long term. 328 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:31.830 Adam Zaki: 100%