1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.640 Johny Fernandez: All right, so I want you guys at home to take a 2 00:00:02.640 --> 00:00:04.500 look at your screen because there's a picture that's gonna 3 00:00:04.500 --> 00:00:07.380 pop up. That guy right there. 4 00:00:07.380 --> 00:00:10.110 Sean Murray: Oh, man, I didn't know you're doing that. Okay. 5 00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:13.450 Johny Fernandez: That guy right there. You may have seen him. I 6 00:00:13.450 --> 00:00:17.290 saw him on the internet. And I was like, Oh, very interesting. 7 00:00:17.710 --> 00:00:23.320 I know that. I think I know that guy. That guy goes uh by General 8 00:00:23.620 --> 00:00:24.490 Sean Murray. 9 00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:28.110 Sean Murray: What? So you want me to explain myself now? 10 00:00:28.170 --> 00:00:28.770 Johny Fernandez: A little bit, yeah. 11 00:00:28.780 --> 00:00:33.100 Sean Murray: Okay. So that sign that sign said I'm buying the 12 00:00:33.100 --> 00:00:34.030 Constitution. 13 00:00:34.060 --> 00:00:35.530 Johny Fernandez: So are you Nicolas Cage? 14 00:00:36.370 --> 00:00:37.660 Sean Murray: You know, I haven't even seen the movie that 15 00:00:37.660 --> 00:00:41.350 everyone's talking about. But it doesn't matter. You know at at 16 00:00:41.350 --> 00:00:44.230 the end of the day, what that was all about was that there was 17 00:00:44.230 --> 00:00:49.840 an internet movement to try and crowdfund the purchase of a US 18 00:00:49.900 --> 00:00:54.010 of a US Constitution. Yeah. A copy of it. Yeah. There are 13 19 00:00:54.010 --> 00:00:56.560 copies of the original United States Constitution in 20 00:00:56.560 --> 00:01:01.090 existence. Two of them are in the hands of private collectors. 21 00:01:01.780 --> 00:01:06.460 And one of those two went up for auction at Sotheby's on Thursday 22 00:01:06.460 --> 00:01:09.700 of last week. And so some internet movements started. 23 00:01:10.060 --> 00:01:10.780 Johny Fernandez: About DAO? 24 00:01:10.860 --> 00:01:14.040 Sean Murray: The a DAO. DO yeah. That, which stands for 25 00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:18.600 decentralized autonomous organization. A DAO, which is 26 00:01:18.600 --> 00:01:21.720 just a collective of people were supposed to be no leader 27 00:01:22.260 --> 00:01:25.740 crowdfunded money to try to raise enough to be the winning 28 00:01:25.800 --> 00:01:29.820 bidder. At the auction at Sotheby's, it was kind of an 29 00:01:29.820 --> 00:01:31.230 insane idea, right? 30 00:01:31.230 --> 00:01:33.360 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. So So let's back up real quick. So 31 00:01:33.810 --> 00:01:39.420 this whole, you know, the DAO is essentially, so how many I think 32 00:01:39.420 --> 00:01:41.250 was like more than 100 people chipped in. 33 00:01:41.430 --> 00:01:44.040 Sean Murray: More than 17,000. Okay. Chipped in. 34 00:01:44.070 --> 00:01:48.420 Johny Fernandez: Okay. So the grand total was they raise up 35 00:01:48.420 --> 00:01:53.490 $47 million via ethereum. That's a lot of money. Yep. Okay, so 36 00:01:53.550 --> 00:01:56.640 everyone they want to fund they want to kind of get this going. 37 00:01:56.640 --> 00:01:59.490 They want the, the copy of the Constitution. So what happened 38 00:01:59.490 --> 00:02:02.610 on Thursday? Because every Thursday things went nuts. 39 00:02:03.030 --> 00:02:05.880 Sean Murray: Yeah. So I was there earlier in the day outside 40 00:02:05.880 --> 00:02:09.510 of Sotheby's with you with with my sign and my costume on. 41 00:02:09.509 --> 00:02:10.259 Johny Fernandez: General Murray. 42 00:02:10.259 --> 00:02:12.630 Sean Murray: Yeah. General Murray, as they call me around 43 00:02:12.630 --> 00:02:13.260 Sotheby's. 44 00:02:14.070 --> 00:02:16.740 Johny Fernandez: What do people say, when they saw you? Were 45 00:02:16.740 --> 00:02:18.420 they really confused? Were they like? 46 00:02:19.500 --> 00:02:22.980 Sean Murray: Some people took pictures. Okay. Some people had 47 00:02:22.980 --> 00:02:27.930 no idea what I was doing. I did bump into somebody who, I guess 48 00:02:27.930 --> 00:02:32.940 was a very senior contributor, a member of the entire movement. 49 00:02:33.300 --> 00:02:35.340 And so we took our picture together. And we talked in 50 00:02:35.340 --> 00:02:39.990 person for a little bit. But but that was basically it. All 51 00:02:39.990 --> 00:02:42.120 right, I didn't go inside, you can go inside. If you want. You 52 00:02:42.180 --> 00:02:44.280 can go inside. I was wearing a costume. I didn't want to freak 53 00:02:44.280 --> 00:02:46.470 out security and all that other stuff. Right? Cause they have a 54 00:02:46.470 --> 00:02:48.300 lot of very expensive items in there. And. 55 00:02:48.780 --> 00:02:51.120 Johny Fernandez: So you can go inside to see the copy of the 56 00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:51.600 Constitution? 57 00:02:51.600 --> 00:02:52.080 You can yrp. 58 00:02:52.320 --> 00:02:52.590 Okay. 59 00:02:52.620 --> 00:02:55.170 Sean Murray: Yeah. I mean, it's also like an exhibit, like an 60 00:02:55.200 --> 00:02:57.360 exhibit hall during the day, you can go in and check out all the 61 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:00.000 different pieces of artwork that they have available, they're 62 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:03.300 going to have up for auction, etc. So I didn't go inside. But 63 00:03:03.300 --> 00:03:06.090 then later that night, they had the actual auction, it was 64 00:03:06.090 --> 00:03:10.290 broadcast on their website, and on YouTube, you had 17,000 plus 65 00:03:10.290 --> 00:03:15.120 people all watching a Sotheby's auction, rooting, you know, for 66 00:03:15.450 --> 00:03:16.860 our side or whatever. 67 00:03:17.140 --> 00:03:19.360 Johny Fernandez: So, so, essentially, they were rooting 68 00:03:19.390 --> 00:03:23.770 for the Constitution to be bought by the DAO. Exactly. And 69 00:03:23.770 --> 00:03:26.530 then what would happen with the Constitution once the DAO gets 70 00:03:26.530 --> 00:03:27.820 it what was the plan. 71 00:03:27.880 --> 00:03:30.160 Sean Murray: Yeah. What was the plan? So everything was thrown 72 00:03:30.160 --> 00:03:33.160 together so hastily, and you know, I wasn't, I'm not in 73 00:03:33.160 --> 00:03:37.090 charge of it or anyhting. But the plan was, from what I 74 00:03:37.090 --> 00:03:42.910 understand was to have it put somewhere some sort of put it in 75 00:03:42.910 --> 00:03:45.850 some sort of publicly accessible and view viewable institution 76 00:03:45.850 --> 00:03:49.150 like a museum, where, you know, the public could see it and 77 00:03:49.150 --> 00:03:52.840 stuff, but that it would be owned by the members of the DAO. 78 00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:56.020 And so at anytime they wanted to change the location or do 79 00:03:56.020 --> 00:03:59.230 something special with it, it would be up to the DAO to do 80 00:03:59.530 --> 00:04:00.700 whatever they wanted with it. 81 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:04.210 Johny Fernandez: This is random. I'm just curious to know did did 82 00:04:04.210 --> 00:04:06.460 anyone ever say that they were going to turn it into an NFT? 83 00:04:07.510 --> 00:04:08.620 Was that ever brought up? 84 00:04:09.460 --> 00:04:14.530 Sean Murray: So I mean, I mean, more, I mean, more or less, it's 85 00:04:14.530 --> 00:04:18.550 kind of the same concept in a way because they went and they 86 00:04:18.550 --> 00:04:21.070 went in saying that everyone was gonna get fractionalized 87 00:04:21.070 --> 00:04:22.690 ownership of the Constitution. 88 00:04:22.830 --> 00:04:25.410 Johny Fernandez: So what does what does that mean? What does 89 00:04:25.410 --> 00:04:29.760 that look like? It would 17,000 people that contributed. 90 00:04:29.820 --> 00:04:32.400 Sean Murray: So if you contributed ethereum, you got on 91 00:04:32.430 --> 00:04:37.020 a, a, you got tokens in return digital tokens that wouldn't go 92 00:04:37.020 --> 00:04:39.780 in your crypto wallet. Okay. They would represent your 93 00:04:39.780 --> 00:04:43.470 percentage ownership of the Constitution, should they want 94 00:04:43.470 --> 00:04:48.000 it. Okay. Right? So I put in my contribution and I got my people 95 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:51.630 tokens, so they call them people tokens, because it's we the 96 00:04:51.630 --> 00:04:56.160 people I got in my ethereum wallet, and other people got a 97 00:04:56.310 --> 00:04:58.680 certain amount of people tokens depending on their contribution. 98 00:04:58.950 --> 00:05:02.250 Okay. And then you can depending on the amount of people tokens 99 00:05:02.250 --> 00:05:05.250 you have, when it comes to a vote to decide where the 100 00:05:05.250 --> 00:05:09.930 Constitution was going to go, your vote would count would be 101 00:05:09.930 --> 00:05:12.840 equivalent to the amount of tokens that you own. So like 102 00:05:12.900 --> 00:05:14.850 someone who put in a million dollars or someone who put in 103 00:05:14.850 --> 00:05:17.010 $10, a person who put in a million dollars would have a 104 00:05:17.010 --> 00:05:19.620 much stronger vote than a person who put in 10 and your people 105 00:05:19.620 --> 00:05:22.410 tokens, you might have would govern? Yeah. The size of your 106 00:05:22.410 --> 00:05:26.370 vote. So that's so it in a way, it was like, you know, in a way, 107 00:05:26.400 --> 00:05:29.130 I mean, these tokens are fungible, actually, they're not 108 00:05:29.130 --> 00:05:33.630 non fungible tokens. They're fungible tokens, but it's the 109 00:05:33.630 --> 00:05:38.490 same concept in that it's a it's a, it's a digital representation 110 00:05:38.670 --> 00:05:40.650 of ownership of something physical. 111 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:44.010 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. Okay, so let's talk about Thursday, the 112 00:05:44.010 --> 00:05:47.490 auction happened, things are going it's chaotic. Everyone's 113 00:05:47.760 --> 00:05:51.150 rooting to, to get the Constitution. And then what? 114 00:05:51.690 --> 00:05:53.940 Sean Murray: Well, here's the crazy part, right? So they went 115 00:05:53.940 --> 00:05:57.720 through 24 different lots at the auction first. And then this 116 00:05:57.720 --> 00:06:00.930 particular one was at the very end, like the main event ended, 117 00:06:01.080 --> 00:06:04.230 and then like the special auction for the high rollers 118 00:06:04.230 --> 00:06:07.230 came up separate. Okay. With a different auctioneer and 119 00:06:07.230 --> 00:06:11.130 everything. Okay. And the minimum bid was set so high, 120 00:06:11.340 --> 00:06:15.480 that it only they only had two people who were bidding. It was 121 00:06:15.540 --> 00:06:20.160 the DAO side. And the representation for some unknown 122 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:22.650 person at the time, we didn't know who the other side was. And 123 00:06:22.650 --> 00:06:25.350 it was all very confusing, because there were two agents 124 00:06:26.220 --> 00:06:29.910 bidding one was representing the DAO one for someone unknown. And 125 00:06:29.910 --> 00:06:32.340 we didn't know which side was ours. So everyone's going 126 00:06:32.370 --> 00:06:35.190 everyone's cheering and booing. But no one knows which of the 127 00:06:35.190 --> 00:06:40.350 bitters is ours literally. Yeah, that's great. Nobody knew. And 128 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:45.630 at the end of it, the the Constitution sold for less than 129 00:06:45.630 --> 00:06:48.960 the amount that was raised by the DAO. So there was this 130 00:06:49.170 --> 00:06:51.900 assumption that the DAO must have won because they had more 131 00:06:51.900 --> 00:06:55.050 money than the winning bid. In fact, all the news outlets went 132 00:06:55.050 --> 00:07:00.360 out and reported that the DAO won, Coin Desk, CNBC, basically 133 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:03.540 everyone in the discord channel all over Twitter, and I'm like, 134 00:07:03.570 --> 00:07:05.940 I don't think we won, even though I didn't know which was 135 00:07:05.940 --> 00:07:09.570 our person. Yeah. The amount that the winning bid was much 136 00:07:09.570 --> 00:07:12.810 too high for the DAO to have one because they there's the buyer's 137 00:07:12.810 --> 00:07:16.590 premium. There's the sales tax, there's the overhead premium. 138 00:07:17.220 --> 00:07:19.740 Johny Fernandez: And let's talk about the sales tax. Yeah. Cause 139 00:07:19.740 --> 00:07:23.100 being in New York, you get tax for everything. So how much was 140 00:07:23.100 --> 00:07:24.060 the sales tax do you know? 141 00:07:24.090 --> 00:07:29.130 Sean Murray: It's 8.875%, on top of a sales price that you can 142 00:07:29.130 --> 00:07:32.070 add, you know, just if you want to do quick math just at 10% to 143 00:07:32.070 --> 00:07:34.590 the sales price, you already know what the sales tax is going 144 00:07:34.590 --> 00:07:36.750 to be. And so I'm doing the quick math and I said, you know, 145 00:07:36.750 --> 00:07:39.840 the DAO doesn't have enough, like that winning bid no way 146 00:07:39.840 --> 00:07:42.570 it's ours, because we don't have enough, but nobody thought it 147 00:07:42.570 --> 00:07:46.110 nobody realized that. I'm sure there were people who knew. But 148 00:07:46.650 --> 00:07:50.010 when you look at the masses who were all like, yeah, yeah, cause 149 00:07:50.010 --> 00:07:53.310 he was an internet movement. It was like a Meme Meme Gone Wild. 150 00:07:53.310 --> 00:07:54.090 Everyone's just throwing. 151 00:07:54.150 --> 00:07:56.280 Johny Fernandez: Everyone was doing the Nicolas Cage meme, and 152 00:07:56.280 --> 00:07:58.560 that was everyone's constitution. 153 00:07:58.590 --> 00:08:02.880 Sean Murray: Exactly. Yeah, this whole thing. And, you know, once 154 00:08:02.880 --> 00:08:07.110 once reality set in that the DAO did not when people thought that 155 00:08:07.110 --> 00:08:10.020 the whole thing must be a scam because more money was raised 156 00:08:10.050 --> 00:08:13.620 than the winning bid. And it was impossible to tell someone that 157 00:08:13.620 --> 00:08:16.530 there was a fee and sales tax they didn't want to hear it 158 00:08:16.590 --> 00:08:20.190 didn't know I was it was it was a scam, I was scammed. And then 159 00:08:20.430 --> 00:08:22.740 it turned the whole thing turned into a gigantic mess. The 160 00:08:22.740 --> 00:08:25.740 discord channel was completely out of control. And I was like, 161 00:08:25.740 --> 00:08:29.040 I can't even watch you know, watch this. Like so many people 162 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:32.460 went in under so many like. Assumptions. False assumptions. 163 00:08:32.460 --> 00:08:34.980 Yeah. You know what I mean that like, and then them want and 164 00:08:34.980 --> 00:08:38.310 then watching their reaction to after the fact they had no idea. 165 00:08:38.310 --> 00:08:40.890 They didn't know who was bidding on what they didn't know what 166 00:08:40.890 --> 00:08:43.530 the terms of the auction were. They don't know how ethereum 167 00:08:43.530 --> 00:08:45.960 works. They don't know anything. But they all threw their money 168 00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:49.170 into this thing. Man. People were literally someone someone 169 00:08:49.170 --> 00:08:51.780 said it like best or like, you know, you know, I didn't think 170 00:08:51.780 --> 00:08:55.320 in 2021 people would be following into the Constitution. 171 00:08:55.320 --> 00:08:58.230 But here we are. Yeah. But yeah, people just want to be in and be 172 00:08:58.230 --> 00:08:58.710 part of it. 173 00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:02.010 Johny Fernandez: Well, it's $47 million that was raised. And 174 00:09:02.010 --> 00:09:05.820 it's interesting, because I think what gets to people that 175 00:09:05.820 --> 00:09:08.610 really don't do transaction like that in New York, is that sales 176 00:09:08.610 --> 00:09:13.230 tax? I mean, just the amount of stuff that gets put on top of 177 00:09:13.410 --> 00:09:17.970 any transaction is insane. And you get charged an insane 178 00:09:17.970 --> 00:09:21.690 amount, just for, you know, doing a transaction like that. 179 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:25.290 Sean Murray: Yeah, no, I would just say on that note that other 180 00:09:25.290 --> 00:09:27.570 outlets have come up with their own figure as to what the total 181 00:09:27.570 --> 00:09:30.870 set price was. Yeah, I think their still incorrect okay, 182 00:09:31.020 --> 00:09:35.070 because I don't see any of that included the sales tax. Okay. It 183 00:09:35.070 --> 00:09:37.800 seems like a pretty important part. Yeah, that's a huge. The 184 00:09:37.800 --> 00:09:39.360 sales tax was probably around $4 million. 185 00:09:39.660 --> 00:09:45.480 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. All right. Well, that was an 186 00:09:45.480 --> 00:09:46.320 eventful day, wasn't it? 187 00:09:46.350 --> 00:09:47.310 Sean Murray: It was an eventful day. 188 00:09:47.340 --> 00:09:50.580 Johny Fernandez: Did you stay the whole time in front of 189 00:09:50.580 --> 00:09:51.120 Sotheby's or? 190 00:09:51.150 --> 00:09:52.890 Sean Murray: No, no, I wasn't. I wasn't there like all day and 191 00:09:52.890 --> 00:09:55.560 all night. No we were out there for like a little over an hour. 192 00:09:55.620 --> 00:09:56.700 Okay. Yeah. 193 00:09:56.760 --> 00:09:59.190 Johny Fernandez: I saw I'm taking the train general Murrau. 194 00:09:59.190 --> 00:10:03.000 I'm like I wonder what's going on. I started following. I was 195 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:06.840 like, wait a minute, he's at Sotheby's right now. But I think 196 00:10:06.990 --> 00:10:09.990 the beard made it look even more official. I don't mean, the 197 00:10:09.990 --> 00:10:12.540 mustache made it look even more official. 198 00:10:12.570 --> 00:10:15.090 Sean Murray: Yeah, you and I, we sit here and we talk about NFT's 199 00:10:15.090 --> 00:10:17.190 and whether or not like an autograph is real and all that. 200 00:10:17.850 --> 00:10:21.960 Digital. For me this connected the real world a real world 201 00:10:21.990 --> 00:10:26.430 object with crypto. Yeah, because it was going to be 202 00:10:26.430 --> 00:10:30.930 backed by something kind of cool. It's Constitution. You 203 00:10:30.930 --> 00:10:33.660 might say, Well, Sean, I don't think I want to put in my house. 204 00:10:34.290 --> 00:10:36.630 You know, what's it worth to me? At the end of the day, this is 205 00:10:36.630 --> 00:10:38.760 something that was gonna have to go into like a museum anyway. 206 00:10:38.820 --> 00:10:42.210 Right? It wasn't gonna be able to go into anyone's house. Yeah. 207 00:10:42.330 --> 00:10:45.060 And this token was just gonna represent your fractional you 208 00:10:45.060 --> 00:10:48.240 know contribution to it. Yeah. But it would still be cool to be 209 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:51.090 a part owner of a constitution. Yeah, it was a tie back. But 210 00:10:51.090 --> 00:10:53.580 that constitution was not the original Constitution it was a 211 00:10:53.580 --> 00:10:56.310 copy of the Constitution. It is the original. Oh, that was the 212 00:10:56.310 --> 00:10:59.400 original? Yeah there's 13, 13 of it. And this is one of them. 213 00:11:00.030 --> 00:11:03.270 There all the all 13 are the original. So they made 500. 214 00:11:03.930 --> 00:11:06.900 United States Constitution originally made 500. There are 215 00:11:06.900 --> 00:11:09.780 13 surviving copies of it. Okay. It's not like one is the 216 00:11:09.780 --> 00:11:13.110 original the other copies, all 500 are the original. Okay. 217 00:11:13.140 --> 00:11:15.300 There's only 13 left. This was one of them. 218 00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:17.640 Johny Fernandez: Okay, so I thought it was there was one 219 00:11:17.640 --> 00:11:20.130 original Constitution, and they copied it. 220 00:11:20.640 --> 00:11:24.150 Sean Murray: No. This is. This is an original, original as the 221 00:11:24.150 --> 00:11:25.020 original? Yeah. 222 00:11:26.670 --> 00:11:27.810 Johny Fernandez: That is pretty cool, though. 223 00:11:27.870 --> 00:11:32.490 Sean Murray: It sold for more than $43 million. Yeah. And, you 224 00:11:32.490 --> 00:11:35.790 know, I don't know if you want to hear more about like, the 225 00:11:35.790 --> 00:11:38.010 other side of it. But everyone wanted to know, who do we lose 226 00:11:38.010 --> 00:11:38.310 to? 227 00:11:38.610 --> 00:11:40.110 Johny Fernandez: Who did you who did we lose to? 228 00:11:40.140 --> 00:11:44.010 Sean Murray: We lost to the CEO of Citadel, which is the Hedge 229 00:11:44.010 --> 00:11:47.580 Fund that was all involved in the Robin Hood and Gamestop 230 00:11:47.640 --> 00:11:53.790 debacle. So he outbid the DAO. And so he's kind of the villain 231 00:11:53.790 --> 00:11:56.250 in the GameStop Robin Hood story. Yeah. He has now come 232 00:11:56.250 --> 00:11:58.860 back to destroy the hopes and dreams of an internet movement 233 00:11:58.860 --> 00:12:02.490 by jacking the Constitution from them. I don't I don't have any 234 00:12:03.150 --> 00:12:06.300 animosity to it, but others do. They feel like he's like this 235 00:12:06.300 --> 00:12:10.050 big villain and stuff. But from my understanding is that, he 236 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:13.620 also going to put the Constitution in a public place. 237 00:12:13.830 --> 00:12:16.890 He said that he's going to have it on display at a library in 238 00:12:16.890 --> 00:12:21.090 Arkansas. Okay. All right. So it's, you know, it's not the 239 00:12:21.090 --> 00:12:23.460 same because he owns it and not the people. 240 00:12:23.490 --> 00:12:28.080 Johny Fernandez: Not the people, we the people. Well, I mean, 241 00:12:28.110 --> 00:12:31.050 hey, that's a cool experience regardless. So you can now tell 242 00:12:31.050 --> 00:12:35.760 your grandkids that you dressed up and was on the Upper East 243 00:12:35.760 --> 00:12:36.150 Side. 244 00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:38.220 Sean Murray: I can tell them that I wore a costume one day 245 00:12:38.220 --> 00:12:40.680 I'll tell my kid that I work costume on the Upper East Side. 246 00:12:40.710 --> 00:12:43.410 Forget about the Constitution and the DAO, one day I'll tell 247 00:12:43.410 --> 00:12:45.150 my kids I wore a costume on the Upper East Side. 248 00:12:45.180 --> 00:12:46.440 Johny Fernandez: Cause you didn't go into the building so 249 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:49.620 you can't like you're outside. 250 00:12:50.280 --> 00:12:51.930 Okay, but I didn't contribute to the DAO. 251 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:54.930 You did. You did contribute to the DAO. So you could you could 252 00:12:54.930 --> 00:12:58.440 tell them you wore a costume on the Upper East Side. And you 253 00:12:58.470 --> 00:13:03.210 almost won a fraction of the Constitution. Almost. Almost, so 254 00:13:03.210 --> 00:13:06.390 close but no cigar. So.