1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.790 Sean Murray: Hello, welcome back. I'm Sean Murray here at 2 00:00:02.940 --> 00:00:05.700 deBanked TV. And I'm here again today with Alison burger. 3 00:00:05.730 --> 00:00:07.890 Allyson Berger: Hello. Happy Wednesday. 4 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:09.210 Sean Murray: Happy Happy Wednesday. 5 00:00:09.780 --> 00:00:11.370 Allyson Berger: You're not getting rid of me this week. 6 00:00:11.370 --> 00:00:13.160 Sean Murray: No, no, a lot of Allyson. 7 00:00:14.910 --> 00:00:16.830 Allyson Berger: But it's been so much fun being here for these 8 00:00:16.830 --> 00:00:17.760 livestreams. 9 00:00:17.940 --> 00:00:19.170 Sean Murray: I'm happy to have had you. 10 00:00:19.200 --> 00:00:21.780 Allyson Berger: Thank you. I'm happy to be here. And today is a 11 00:00:21.780 --> 00:00:25.500 beautiful day in Manhattan. The weather is great, it feels great 12 00:00:25.500 --> 00:00:27.390 outside, things are happening. 13 00:00:27.420 --> 00:00:28.350 Sean Murray: They are, they are. 14 00:00:29.470 --> 00:00:30.940 Allyson Berger: So we have to get this over with so we can go 15 00:00:30.940 --> 00:00:33.310 outside and enjoy the weather. But we have plenty of things to 16 00:00:33.310 --> 00:00:36.970 talk about. It's a big day on the market. But we're gonna wait 17 00:00:36.970 --> 00:00:39.820 to discuss what's going on in Coinbase. So what do you want to 18 00:00:39.820 --> 00:00:41.680 start with? What's going on in California? 19 00:00:41.750 --> 00:00:43.400 Sean Murray: Sure. Yeah, we can talk about what's happening in 20 00:00:43.400 --> 00:00:47.960 California. We put out a story. I think it was yesterday, about 21 00:00:48.140 --> 00:00:50.360 a law. How old, an old law 22 00:00:50.400 --> 00:00:52.710 Allyson Berger: Yeah, you reported about this in 2018. 23 00:00:52.740 --> 00:00:56.070 Yeah. And things aren't changing four years later. 24 00:00:56.070 --> 00:00:58.610 Sean Murray: That's right. Yeah. So we wrote about something 25 00:00:58.610 --> 00:01:03.860 called Senate Bill 1235. And it was the first business loan and 26 00:01:04.220 --> 00:01:07.550 merchant cash advance and business finance disclosure law 27 00:01:07.790 --> 00:01:11.510 that had ever been passed by a state in the country. And it 28 00:01:11.510 --> 00:01:13.730 kind of freaked a lot of people out because there were a lot of 29 00:01:14.120 --> 00:01:17.150 there was a lo t of verbiage in it that didn't really make sense 30 00:01:17.210 --> 00:01:20.270 and didn't really reflect how the products they were trying to 31 00:01:20.270 --> 00:01:25.970 regulate, like, operated. And but they passed it anyway. And a 32 00:01:25.970 --> 00:01:29.150 lot of people were wondering, like, you know, how do we do 33 00:01:29.150 --> 00:01:32.270 this? Are we like not able to lend in the state, we're not 34 00:01:32.270 --> 00:01:34.490 funding the state, because I don't know that we can comply 35 00:01:34.490 --> 00:01:36.560 with the way that the law was written. So it actually went 36 00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:40.010 into like, timeout mode. And you got all these parties together 37 00:01:40.250 --> 00:01:43.400 to try to figure out how to create a law that worked. It's 38 00:01:43.580 --> 00:01:45.440 weird that you would pass the law, 39 00:01:45.770 --> 00:01:46.880 Allyson Berger: And then try to figure it out, 40 00:01:46.880 --> 00:01:47.720 Sean Murray: And then try to figure it out. 41 00:01:47.750 --> 00:01:48.920 Allyson Berger: Aren't they supposed to do that first? 42 00:01:48.980 --> 00:01:52.160 Sean Murray: I thought you were supposed to, but they did it the 43 00:01:52.160 --> 00:01:53.570 other way around. 44 00:01:53.630 --> 00:01:54.680 Allyson Berger: The government is great. 45 00:01:55.620 --> 00:01:58.560 Sean Murray: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this isn't, this isn't even that 46 00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:01.830 unique. It's happened elsewhere, too. But finally, after all 47 00:02:01.830 --> 00:02:05.310 these years in California, we are at the very end of a cycle 48 00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:09.600 of all the negotiating that has taken place. And my 49 00:02:09.600 --> 00:02:12.780 understanding is that the public, because this is not just 50 00:02:12.780 --> 00:02:17.940 like a closed door thing the public has until April 26, to 51 00:02:18.030 --> 00:02:21.030 comment on it. And you can't comment on the whole thing at 52 00:02:21.030 --> 00:02:21.450 this point, 53 00:02:21.450 --> 00:02:22.770 Allyson Berger: Right, this specific part 54 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:24.820 Sean Murray: Yeah. So it's not like you can just say I hate the 55 00:02:24.820 --> 00:02:27.490 whole thing, change it, you're basically limited at this point 56 00:02:27.490 --> 00:02:31.120 to fixing some of the parts that they've been editing, right. And 57 00:02:31.150 --> 00:02:34.210 they might change it, they might not. But we're getting to the 58 00:02:34.210 --> 00:02:36.700 point where they're like, this is, Hey, guys, you know, enough 59 00:02:36.700 --> 00:02:40.510 is enough. We passed it in 2018. It's time to roll this thing 60 00:02:40.510 --> 00:02:43.300 out. So I think if you're out there, and you're you've 61 00:02:43.300 --> 00:02:46.480 forgotten about it, or you're wondering what's happening to 62 00:02:46.480 --> 00:02:49.660 it, this law in California, which was all about just just 63 00:02:49.660 --> 00:02:53.440 about disclosure, right, which is about disclosure, but it had 64 00:02:53.440 --> 00:02:56.290 all the all this verbiage in there that actually made it 65 00:02:56.290 --> 00:02:59.350 impossible for certain companies to carry out their business. 66 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:02.830 They're coming to the end of that cycle, and just saying, 67 00:03:02.830 --> 00:03:07.630 This is what it's going to be. And I think what's kind of, you 68 00:03:07.630 --> 00:03:11.740 know, unfortunate that what I've heard is that they weren't able 69 00:03:11.740 --> 00:03:15.700 to resolve some of the key points. Like 70 00:03:15.820 --> 00:03:16.930 Allyson Berger: The most important part, 71 00:03:17.320 --> 00:03:20.140 Sean Murray: The most important parts, like companies that can't 72 00:03:20.140 --> 00:03:24.790 mathematically calculate an APR, not because they don't want to, 73 00:03:25.300 --> 00:03:29.680 or they feel like it doesn't apply, but because APR has a big 74 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:33.610 time factor in the formula. And there are financial products out 75 00:03:33.610 --> 00:03:38.470 there that have no element of time in the repayment. And so 76 00:03:38.470 --> 00:03:40.930 they're like, we'd love to comply, but we don't have the 77 00:03:40.930 --> 00:03:45.460 time aspect. Can we do a formula that applies? Right. And I think 78 00:03:45.460 --> 00:03:49.870 that the sponsors of the bill, didn't want to do that. Because 79 00:03:49.870 --> 00:03:53.860 for them, it was all about the formula. Which was an APR, and 80 00:03:53.860 --> 00:03:58.810 they're like, we really, really wanted that part. And we're it's 81 00:03:58.810 --> 00:04:03.310 unfortunate that you can't comply, but I don't know, they 82 00:04:03.310 --> 00:04:05.740 apparently it's gonna be in there is what it looks like. 83 00:04:06.070 --> 00:04:07.810 Allyson Berger: Right. You would think they would create a 84 00:04:07.810 --> 00:04:11.530 formula that would work in the time that the people that need 85 00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:14.710 this law passed ,would, it would work? And they're just 86 00:04:14.710 --> 00:04:16.000 making it more difficult. 87 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:18.010 Sean Murray: That's, I mean, that's what it totally looks 88 00:04:18.010 --> 00:04:23.410 that way. And I don't get the sense that the people who wrote 89 00:04:23.410 --> 00:04:27.940 the bill have any type of like, angry agenda, or at this point, 90 00:04:27.940 --> 00:04:31.420 they don't get it. And I think they're nice, but 91 00:04:31.510 --> 00:04:32.470 Allyson Berger: Have you met them? 92 00:04:32.540 --> 00:04:37.190 Sean Murray: I haven't, I haven't met them. But I've seen 93 00:04:37.220 --> 00:04:39.890 you know, I've read up on a few of them because I was trying to 94 00:04:39.890 --> 00:04:42.470 figure out you know, is there any type of motivation what's, 95 00:04:42.950 --> 00:04:46.340 you know, what's going on here? What's their past law making 96 00:04:46.340 --> 00:04:49.790 activity look like? And they seem like rational reasonable 97 00:04:49.790 --> 00:04:53.360 people, but they're sticking to their guns on certain things. 98 00:04:53.810 --> 00:04:57.620 And I don't know if it's because of its you know, that aspect of 99 00:04:57.620 --> 00:05:01.370 it is political. But it's it seems like some of the major 100 00:05:01.550 --> 00:05:05.990 technical problems with the law with the law are going to stay 101 00:05:05.990 --> 00:05:08.840 in there. And we could actually have a situation where if you 102 00:05:08.840 --> 00:05:11.780 are out there, and you work in the business finance industry, 103 00:05:11.810 --> 00:05:14.570 you could actually be hampered from doing business in 104 00:05:14.570 --> 00:05:17.840 California by virtue of a disclosure bill. 105 00:05:18.350 --> 00:05:21.500 Allyson Berger: Crazy. Yeah. So crazy. And especially after the 106 00:05:21.500 --> 00:05:25.220 year, we've just had, you know, let's make it easier on small to 107 00:05:25.220 --> 00:05:28.370 middle sized businesses. So they can, you know, get funding that 108 00:05:28.370 --> 00:05:31.940 they need and do what they need to survive further and, or 109 00:05:31.940 --> 00:05:34.400 flourish, whatever they need to do, you know, like, let's help 110 00:05:34.400 --> 00:05:38.240 them out, let's not make things more difficult by adding 111 00:05:38.270 --> 00:05:43.010 government and politics and laws that aren't getting finalized in 112 00:05:43.190 --> 00:05:43.670 the mix. 113 00:05:43.970 --> 00:05:46.040 Sean Murray: Yeah.And the whole idea was to do that it was to 114 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:50.360 help small business. And I think, you know, sometimes you 115 00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:53.540 have, you can have good intentions, and the outcome is 116 00:05:53.810 --> 00:05:56.720 the opposite of what you intended. Because from what I'm 117 00:05:56.720 --> 00:05:59.840 hearing is that if the law is if it remains the way it's 118 00:05:59.840 --> 00:06:03.200 currently in its current form, you could actually see an exodus 119 00:06:03.380 --> 00:06:07.250 of financial companies from that state and less funding to small 120 00:06:07.250 --> 00:06:09.320 business. And I don't think that's what they wanted. They 121 00:06:09.320 --> 00:06:11.090 were trying to be like, let's make sure that they're 122 00:06:11.090 --> 00:06:15.050 adequately informed. But in trying to do that so zealously, 123 00:06:15.410 --> 00:06:19.310 they run into a situation where people can't comply with it, and 124 00:06:19.310 --> 00:06:21.050 are just forced to leave the state. 125 00:06:21.090 --> 00:06:23.280 Allyson Berger: Right. And we've been talking about that 126 00:06:23.310 --> 00:06:27.060 countlessly in New York, and you know, you would think the states 127 00:06:27.060 --> 00:06:30.060 want to keep businesses in them and help them and they're still 128 00:06:30.060 --> 00:06:31.020 doing the opposite. 129 00:06:31.960 --> 00:06:35.530 Sean Murray: You know. Like I said, I don't think they have 130 00:06:35.530 --> 00:06:38.020 all these good intentions, right. But at the end of the 131 00:06:38.020 --> 00:06:42.580 day, something I don't know if it's politics just kind of gets 132 00:06:42.580 --> 00:06:45.370 in the way of yeah, like logic, sometimes part 133 00:06:45.370 --> 00:06:50.980 is part of what you wrote in your article about this is the 134 00:06:50.980 --> 00:06:55.090 delay of it all is, you know, mindless things that don't 135 00:06:55.090 --> 00:06:58.690 matter, like the ratio of columns in the documents and the 136 00:06:58.690 --> 00:07:02.650 font type. And, you know, why are you making that an issue? 137 00:07:02.680 --> 00:07:05.410 Yeah, let's get to the meat and the potatoes and make this work 138 00:07:05.410 --> 00:07:06.880 after all these years. Yeah. 139 00:07:06.930 --> 00:07:08.610 Sean Murray: Oh, I totally forgot about that. Yeah, you're 140 00:07:08.610 --> 00:07:09.240 absolutely right. 141 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:10.920 Allyson Berger: That's why I'm here, Sean 142 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:14.610 Sean Murray: You know, here I am talking about like, APR, because 143 00:07:14.610 --> 00:07:16.770 that's what so many people are fixated on, but when you look at 144 00:07:16.770 --> 00:07:20.040 what they've been talking about, over the last three, four years, 145 00:07:20.430 --> 00:07:24.270 is that they're still hammering out what size font to use, what 146 00:07:24.270 --> 00:07:28.890 type of font to use, how big the columns can be, how many columns 147 00:07:28.890 --> 00:07:31.380 you can have, whether it's certain numbers need to have a 148 00:07:31.380 --> 00:07:33.570 line around around them, like a box? 149 00:07:33.990 --> 00:07:36.450 Allyson Berger: Yeah, maybe we should just find some rocks, you 150 00:07:36.450 --> 00:07:39.930 know, get some carvings in them, like the rock ages? And, you 151 00:07:39.930 --> 00:07:42.240 know, yeah, make things easier. 152 00:07:42.630 --> 00:07:45.300 Sean Murray: I mean, that would be quite easy. Yes, just some 153 00:07:45.420 --> 00:07:48.930 rock carved. Because right now, they're like, you know, it 154 00:07:48.930 --> 00:07:52.290 literally said something to the effect of, you must have like, 155 00:07:52.290 --> 00:07:55.320 three columns, and you can't squeeze them in this foreign to 156 00:07:55.320 --> 00:07:59.490 the page, that they must have this certain aspect ratio in 157 00:07:59.490 --> 00:08:02.550 relation to the to the paper that they're printed on. And I'm 158 00:08:02.550 --> 00:08:06.120 like, Whoa, is that really what they've been working on? Like? I 159 00:08:06.120 --> 00:08:09.330 mean, I don't want to, you know, assume that that's what it is. 160 00:08:09.330 --> 00:08:11.010 But when you read that as like some 161 00:08:11.010 --> 00:08:12.180 Allyson Berger: Of the issues, 162 00:08:12.330 --> 00:08:14.940 Sean Murray: Some of the issues that are in it, you're like, oh, 163 00:08:15.060 --> 00:08:17.370 okay, well, gee, 164 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:20.130 Allyson Berger: What what happens when there's like an 165 00:08:20.130 --> 00:08:23.460 actual problem with what they're writing? You know, that's what 166 00:08:23.460 --> 00:08:26.220 they really should be focusing on to make these formulas like 167 00:08:26.220 --> 00:08:29.490 you're mentioning, work and give these businesses the proper 168 00:08:29.490 --> 00:08:32.700 amount of time to make things happen. Not about the font. 169 00:08:32.730 --> 00:08:35.340 Sean Murray: Yeah, not the font and it was Times New Roman, or 170 00:08:35.340 --> 00:08:38.730 an equivalent family of fonts. By the way. 171 00:08:40.190 --> 00:08:43.400 Allyson Berger: We should just blame Microsoft Word. It's their 172 00:08:43.400 --> 00:08:45.590 fault. Isn't that what the default is? 173 00:08:45.620 --> 00:08:49.340 Sean Murray: Yeah. No, no Helvetica? No, Geneva? No, no 174 00:08:49.370 --> 00:08:51.530 Comic Sans or any out of 175 00:08:51.530 --> 00:08:53.030 Allyson Berger: We are quarantine, people should have 176 00:08:53.060 --> 00:08:56.510 more time to do other things. , 177 00:08:56.540 --> 00:08:59.120 Sean Murray: Maybe that was the result of quarantine. That 178 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:01.730 they're like, you know, hey, let's, we have all this time. 179 00:09:01.730 --> 00:09:03.500 Let's, let's dive into the font. 180 00:09:03.530 --> 00:09:05.840 Allyson Berger: Let's figure out what's the right font to write a 181 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:06.350 villain. 182 00:09:06.710 --> 00:09:08.660 Sean Murray: There you go. That's where that's that's where 183 00:09:08.660 --> 00:09:09.320 they worked on 184 00:09:10.100 --> 00:09:12.590 Allyson Berger: It's like this great. We're having fun, 185 00:09:12.650 --> 00:09:13.100 Sean Murray: For sure. 186 00:09:14.420 --> 00:09:16.850 Allyson Berger: So let's transition now into talking 187 00:09:16.850 --> 00:09:21.080 about something somewhat similar and not entirely but FinTech 188 00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:22.010 securities. 189 00:09:22.010 --> 00:09:25.990 Sean Murray: Sure, yeah. So securities law has been 190 00:09:26.110 --> 00:09:31.360 essentially a taboo topic in the FinTech industry for quite a 191 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:37.570 while. And that's partially because if you've decided that 192 00:09:37.570 --> 00:09:39.850 your whatever product that you're offering is not a 193 00:09:39.850 --> 00:09:43.360 security, you probably don't want to talk about it too much. 194 00:09:43.420 --> 00:09:45.970 Because you don't want anyone to be interested in why you think 195 00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:49.780 that.So it's, it's super hush-hush. It's something that 196 00:09:49.810 --> 00:09:52.810 if you even had the conversation, it's one you had 197 00:09:52.810 --> 00:09:56.350 with your lawyer behind closed doors, and you never mentioned 198 00:09:56.350 --> 00:09:58.510 it to anyone else. You just said, Hey, we talked to 199 00:09:58.510 --> 00:10:01.840 somebody. We're you know, we're compliant, rigorous. Yeah, you 200 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:05.200 know, this is like a don't, you know, don't don't match this 201 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:06.080 Allyson Berger: A and B conversation. 202 00:10:06.510 --> 00:10:09.870 Sean Murray: Yeah . And I think the downside of that is 203 00:10:09.870 --> 00:10:13.110 that so many new entrants when they came into the industry, 204 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:17.460 they didn't realize that some of the earlier folks had already 205 00:10:17.460 --> 00:10:22.650 kind of checked that off. And they assumed that, well, we know 206 00:10:22.650 --> 00:10:25.920 what we're offering must not be a securit. Or that it wasn't 207 00:10:25.920 --> 00:10:28.800 even something you had to think about. And I've encountered that 208 00:10:28.800 --> 00:10:31.800 a lot with people asking me about, you know, the term 209 00:10:31.800 --> 00:10:35.760 syndication, and participations, and co-funding and all these 210 00:10:35.760 --> 00:10:39.000 terms that people have used to talk about co-investing in, in 211 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:43.980 deals. And you know, that I would ask like, well, did you 212 00:10:43.980 --> 00:10:46.650 have a securities lawyer, look at what you're doing? And 213 00:10:46.650 --> 00:10:49.050 they're lile we need a securities lawyer?, I'm not 214 00:10:49.050 --> 00:10:51.750 selling stocks, even I mean, I'm not selling bonds. I'm just 215 00:10:51.750 --> 00:10:54.900 finding investors and like, as soon as you say, investors, 216 00:10:55.380 --> 00:10:58.800 that's a, you know, big signal that you should be talking to a 217 00:10:58.800 --> 00:11:01.950 securities lawyer, because it could be a security, right? And 218 00:11:01.950 --> 00:11:05.340 I'm not the be all end all, you know, on that topic, because I'm 219 00:11:05.340 --> 00:11:09.060 not a lawyer, and I'm not securities lawyer. But there was 220 00:11:09.060 --> 00:11:13.440 somebody who, about four years ago started to make it a public 221 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:18.210 issue, then a way to try to help those who are operating, because 222 00:11:18.210 --> 00:11:27.180 I think he saw how, you know how, under, not under knowledge? 223 00:11:27.180 --> 00:11:29.370 did that word under an hour, we can make it under under 224 00:11:29.370 --> 00:11:31.770 knowledge. I don't want to say uneducated. But under knowledge, 225 00:11:31.890 --> 00:11:32.460 you know what I mean, 226 00:11:32.460 --> 00:11:34.380 Allyson Berger: There wasn't enough information out there 227 00:11:34.380 --> 00:11:34.680 about 228 00:11:34.710 --> 00:11:37.410 Sean Murray: Exactly they were educated folks who didn't have 229 00:11:37.410 --> 00:11:42.330 access to the, to the information. And he kind of made 230 00:11:42.330 --> 00:11:47.460 it his mission to be a voice of, of this issue. And his name was 231 00:11:48.300 --> 00:11:52.050 Greg Novak, who were the partner at Troutman Pepper, originally, 232 00:11:52.050 --> 00:11:55.110 Pepper Hamilton. And it's timely that we talk about it, because 233 00:11:55.110 --> 00:11:58.080 he unfortunately just recently passed away. It's very, it's 234 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:02.310 very, very sad. And we put something up on our on our 235 00:12:02.310 --> 00:12:06.750 website about it. Yeah. And I was only professionally, I've 236 00:12:06.750 --> 00:12:12.180 got acquainted with him. But I took to what he was saying very 237 00:12:12.180 --> 00:12:15.690 early on, because so few people were talking about securities 238 00:12:15.690 --> 00:12:21.480 law, that related to the small business finance industry. And I 239 00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:24.210 actually I met him at a presentation that he gave, and 240 00:12:24.210 --> 00:12:27.060 I'm like, know, this guy's smart. And I hope as many people 241 00:12:27.060 --> 00:12:27.960 hear what he's saying. 242 00:12:29.190 --> 00:12:31.560 Allyson Berger: I'm sure he had an impact on many people, 243 00:12:31.650 --> 00:12:32.940 besides yourself, 244 00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:35.540 Sean Murray: Oh for sure, yeah. Yeah. So he impacted a lot of 245 00:12:35.540 --> 00:12:39.770 people. And people would would hear him speak at shows, I know, 246 00:12:39.770 --> 00:12:43.040 a lot of people retained him to be their attorney, or, you know, 247 00:12:43.040 --> 00:12:48.320 their expert on on the matter. And, you know, if there's any, 248 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:52.610 if this is ever a time to kind of talk about this issue, again, 249 00:12:52.610 --> 00:12:56.840 is now. And that's because so many people are still new to the 250 00:12:56.840 --> 00:13:00.290 business, or have been in it for a short time, and may not be 251 00:13:00.290 --> 00:13:04.130 aware that what they're doing could have a securities twist to 252 00:13:04.130 --> 00:13:07.910 it. Because if you're starting a company, you might say.Well, I 253 00:13:07.910 --> 00:13:11.540 don't have enough money myself. So I'm going to borrow some 254 00:13:11.540 --> 00:13:16.040 money from friends and family. And after I do that, you know, I 255 00:13:16.040 --> 00:13:18.920 might ask a few rich people that I know, if they want to invest. 256 00:13:19.220 --> 00:13:21.710 And you're like, it's just between me and my investor. 257 00:13:22.070 --> 00:13:26.270 Right? . But you could inadvertently, have already 258 00:13:26.270 --> 00:13:29.060 created a security, you've now created some type of investment. 259 00:13:29.390 --> 00:13:33.050 And there are all types of rules that you now need to follow. And 260 00:13:33.050 --> 00:13:35.390 you're not even thinking about it. Like, no, I went to this 261 00:13:35.420 --> 00:13:37.250 rich person. Yeah, and asked them to invest 262 00:13:37.250 --> 00:13:38.510 Allyson Berger: Because everyone knows one of those. 263 00:13:40.040 --> 00:13:44.090 Sean Murray: You know, it's it's a thing. You just gotta find a 264 00:13:44.090 --> 00:13:44.720 rich person. 265 00:13:44.780 --> 00:13:46.970 Allyson Berger: But no one hands you, you know, a rulebook on how 266 00:13:46.970 --> 00:13:50.330 to handle all this, once you get the investments, and you go into 267 00:13:50.330 --> 00:13:52.970 the next steps of, you know, creating your business or 268 00:13:52.970 --> 00:13:54.590 whatever you've got those investments for. 269 00:13:54.630 --> 00:13:56.010 Sean Murray: Yeah. And if you're, you know, what if you're 270 00:13:56.010 --> 00:13:58.200 an entrepreneur who bootstrapped itself in the beginning, where 271 00:13:58.200 --> 00:13:59.880 you started with some friends and family money or your own 272 00:13:59.880 --> 00:14:04.950 money. Obviously, you have a, a general counsel or compliance 273 00:14:04.950 --> 00:14:07.710 officer to tell you, right, and you're like, it's just between 274 00:14:07.710 --> 00:14:10.620 me and this one person who invested. And we and we have a 275 00:14:10.620 --> 00:14:13.770 contract. I hear that a lot. But we have a contract. I'm like, 276 00:14:13.770 --> 00:14:16.050 okay, but it could still be subject to securities, 277 00:14:16.530 --> 00:14:19.410 regulations. And so you should just check. Again, I'm not the 278 00:14:19.410 --> 00:14:22.710 authority on whether it is or not, but you should just check 279 00:14:22.740 --> 00:14:26.400 right and talk to an expert. Yeah. And that applies to 280 00:14:26.400 --> 00:14:30.330 anybody out there who is involved in co-funding of deals, 281 00:14:30.540 --> 00:14:33.390 syndication participation, I know you don't want to think 282 00:14:33.390 --> 00:14:37.290 about it. I know it sounds expensive, but everyone who is 283 00:14:37.290 --> 00:14:40.560 involved in that aspect of the business should have, some type, 284 00:14:40.560 --> 00:14:44.250 of professional legal securities advice to guide them 285 00:14:44.250 --> 00:14:47.490 accordingly. Whether you're the investor, or the company, 286 00:14:47.520 --> 00:14:50.220 offering the investment. And you may be saying, you know what, 287 00:14:50.220 --> 00:14:52.410 I'm not even offering an investment. My contract says 288 00:14:52.410 --> 00:14:56.640 this. So I'm exempt. Well, if a securities lawyer told you that 289 00:14:56.880 --> 00:14:59.550 maybe you're probably okay. Yeah, but it might just get it 290 00:14:59.640 --> 00:15:01.530 Yeah. If you just wrote, you know, if you've arrived to that 291 00:15:01.530 --> 00:15:04.410 conclusion on your own, that's where you get into trouble when 292 00:15:04.410 --> 00:15:08.610 you start thinking that you're You tricked the SEC. Yeah, oh 293 00:15:08.610 --> 00:15:11.310 I tricked them. You know, I didn't I didn't use that word. 294 00:15:11.310 --> 00:15:13.920 So I'm tricking them. And when they ask, I'll say, it's not an 295 00:15:13.920 --> 00:15:17.550 investment. It's, you know, it's this whatever. And, you know, 296 00:15:17.670 --> 00:15:19.230 securities regulators aren't stupid. 297 00:15:19.260 --> 00:15:21.630 Allyson Berger: Yeah, just not something to mess around with. 298 00:15:22.110 --> 00:15:24.180 Sean Murray: You don't want to mess around with you don't want 299 00:15:24.180 --> 00:15:28.200 to mess around with it. As Greg said, the rules are unforgiving. 300 00:15:28.260 --> 00:15:31.440 And you have to follow them. And so he actually was an advocate 301 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:34.740 for even if you're not 100% sure, you should just try to 302 00:15:34.740 --> 00:15:38.160 follow them anyway. Rather than take the risk of being wrong, 303 00:15:38.190 --> 00:15:41.700 right. And so anyone out there who's involved in any type of 304 00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:45.690 investment, co funding, syndication participation, I 305 00:15:45.690 --> 00:15:48.420 don't care what your contract says. Just make sure you have 306 00:15:48.420 --> 00:15:51.180 somebody knowledgeable in securities law. I don't mean 307 00:15:51.180 --> 00:15:54.930 like your, your lawyer, who does an occasional real estate 308 00:15:54.930 --> 00:15:57.750 transaction some time or your lawyer who, you know, does your 309 00:15:57.750 --> 00:16:00.180 taxes. It should be someone who's knowledgeable with 310 00:16:00.180 --> 00:16:02.940 securities law, it's actually a very specific area of law. 311 00:16:02.970 --> 00:16:04.650 Allyson Berger: I was about to say, very specific. Yeah. 312 00:16:04.650 --> 00:16:06.840 Sean Murray: Cuz I, you know, oftentimes, you say, I had a 313 00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:10.320 friend who's a lawyer look at it. And I don't often I don't 314 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:11.220 even know if that's enough. 315 00:16:11.520 --> 00:16:12.540 Allyson Berger: Not the right lawyer. 316 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:14.730 Sean Murray: Yeah, you need to have it. And securities lawyers 317 00:16:14.730 --> 00:16:18.450 can be expensive. But the advice you get, I mean, it'll be worth 318 00:16:18.450 --> 00:16:21.000 it to get the proper advice and to conduct yourself accordingly 319 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:24.150 from the beginning, rather than find out after the fact. And 320 00:16:24.150 --> 00:16:27.450 then, you know, that will be way more expensive. Yeah. 321 00:16:28.680 --> 00:16:29.520 Allyson Berger: They'll come to bite you. Yeah, 322 00:16:29.520 --> 00:16:30.900 Sean Murray: Yeah. I will definitely come to bite you. I 323 00:16:30.900 --> 00:16:33.720 mean, it happened to companies like Lending Club and Prosper. 324 00:16:33.930 --> 00:16:36.300 You might compare yourself to them to like, well, how do they 325 00:16:36.690 --> 00:16:40.710 get an investment or whatever from individuals? Well, they 326 00:16:40.710 --> 00:16:43.440 actually have to register every single loan on their platform 327 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:46.260 with the Securities and Exchange Commission? And guess what? They 328 00:16:46.260 --> 00:16:49.110 didn't do that in the beginning. And the SEC was like, I'm very 329 00:16:49.110 --> 00:16:52.530 interested in what you do. And they're like, Ah, you know, it, 330 00:16:52.590 --> 00:16:54.240 You never know when they're going to go checking 331 00:16:54.701 --> 00:16:54.921 Yeah. You never know when they're gonna go checking. And 332 00:16:54.921 --> 00:16:57.771 if you even if you're small, you might say, Well, I'm small. I 333 00:16:57.771 --> 00:17:01.161 just have 10 Investors. Right. It's just me and 10 rich people 334 00:17:03.630 --> 00:17:05.400 Allyson Berger: Wow, you're adding more to them now? Yeah. 335 00:17:06.690 --> 00:17:08.850 Oh, yeah. I just want to find one. 336 00:17:10.710 --> 00:17:12.840 Sean Murray: Out there out there somewhere. Yeah, not here. 337 00:17:12.870 --> 00:17:15.960 Allyson Berger: I think you're making a great point. It doesn't 338 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:19.200 matter how big or small you just want to do the right thing. And, 339 00:17:20.040 --> 00:17:24.000 you know, Greg's legacy lives on in many ways. This was a great 340 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:25.380 thing that you got, 341 00:17:25.560 --> 00:17:28.320 Sean Murray: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And you might say, Well, 342 00:17:28.320 --> 00:17:31.980 I'm small, and the SEC won't know, the problem is that if one 343 00:17:31.980 --> 00:17:34.710 of your investors. Let's say you're a small, let's say you're 344 00:17:34.710 --> 00:17:35.070 small. 345 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:36.480 Allyson Berger: I mean, I am small 346 00:17:38.100 --> 00:17:38.880 Sean Murray: Perfect example. 347 00:17:39.840 --> 00:17:42.000 Allyson Berger: You haven't met me in real life yet, I am small 348 00:17:43.350 --> 00:17:44.820 Sean Murray: Yeah, you know, let's say you're smal and you're 349 00:17:44.820 --> 00:17:47.580 like, I'm flying under the radar. I can't afford all the 350 00:17:47.580 --> 00:17:50.370 bells and whistles me and my investors are good 351 00:17:50.370 --> 00:17:52.260 Allyson Berger: I'm trying to look for a rich person. Yeah. 352 00:17:52.320 --> 00:17:55.140 And I know them personally. Everything's fine. It's great. 353 00:17:55.140 --> 00:17:56.460 Yeah, it's me and my rich friend. 354 00:17:56.490 --> 00:17:58.170 Sean Murray: Yes. Hang out with them all the time, 355 00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:02.640 Hang out. And something happens like a pandemic. And those 356 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:04.980 investments don't work out. And you're like, well, 357 00:18:05.010 --> 00:18:06.450 Allyson Berger: I need to find new rich friends. 358 00:18:06.630 --> 00:18:08.160 Sean Murray: Yeah, well, you might be thinking, Oh, I just 359 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:11.790 gotta find new rich friends, but one of your rich friends is 360 00:18:11.790 --> 00:18:14.220 going to be very upset, at least one is gonna be very upset that 361 00:18:14.220 --> 00:18:15.030 they lost money, 362 00:18:15.060 --> 00:18:15.390 Right. 363 00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:20.700 And you run the risk that if and when they perceive you, legally, 364 00:18:21.060 --> 00:18:24.960 that now a third party, like a court is going to start looking 365 00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:27.630 at it and be like, oh, it really looks like, you know, this 366 00:18:27.630 --> 00:18:30.030 should have been registered at the security. And they're like, 367 00:18:30.990 --> 00:18:34.440 you're off the radar until you weren't and so it doesn't matter 368 00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:36.720 how big or small you are, is something that you should 369 00:18:36.930 --> 00:18:37.890 definitely look into. 370 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:41.940 Allyson Berger: For sure. Great. Love all that information. We're 371 00:18:41.940 --> 00:18:42.900 teaching the people 372 00:18:42.930 --> 00:18:44.520 Sean Murray: Yeah, yeah, too. That's that's our lesson 373 00:18:44.550 --> 00:18:46.050 Allyson Berger: Wisdom for this Wednesday. 374 00:18:47.040 --> 00:18:47.760 Sean Murray: Getting technical. 375 00:18:47.790 --> 00:18:49.890 Allyson Berger: Yeah. Well, I think we should talk about the 376 00:18:49.890 --> 00:18:54.180 big thing happening today. Now, a big moment. Coinbase one 377 00:18:54.180 --> 00:18:57.840 public, pretty big day in NASDAQ. What do you think about 378 00:18:57.840 --> 00:18:58.080 it? 379 00:18:58.390 --> 00:19:01.900 Sean Murray: Well, what's interesting is that everyone was 380 00:19:01.900 --> 00:19:05.860 calling it an IPO. Yeah, I was calling it an IPO. It turns out 381 00:19:05.860 --> 00:19:09.850 it's not an IPO. Oh, yeah. It's it's a direct listing. Okay, I 382 00:19:09.850 --> 00:19:13.270 didn't know what that was. I'll admit when I don't know things. 383 00:19:13.360 --> 00:19:14.410 Allyson Berger: I'm glad to hear that. 384 00:19:14.860 --> 00:19:17.320 Sean Murray: I tell people all the time, you know, contact a 385 00:19:17.320 --> 00:19:18.940 lawyer or talk to an expert or whatever, 386 00:19:18.970 --> 00:19:19.990 Allyson Berger: Don't contact Sean 387 00:19:20.020 --> 00:19:20.590 Sean Murray: Don't, well 388 00:19:20.590 --> 00:19:22.690 Allyson Berger: Only on certain things 389 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:24.640 Sean Murray: You can contact me and I'll then I'll tell you who 390 00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:25.480 to contact that's 391 00:19:26.650 --> 00:19:27.280 Allyson Berger: Well done. 392 00:19:27.810 --> 00:19:29.760 Sean Murray: You know. I am, you know, resourceful. 393 00:19:29.790 --> 00:19:30.990 Allyson Berger: Alright, cool. Completely. 394 00:19:32.010 --> 00:19:34.440 Sean Murray: So it's a direct listing. Yeah. And that means 395 00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:38.850 that they're not raising money. Usually you do an IPO, because 396 00:19:38.850 --> 00:19:41.610 you you've gone through like your, your A round and your B 397 00:19:41.610 --> 00:19:44.280 round in the C round and your D round. And it's it's kind of 398 00:19:44.280 --> 00:19:47.160 enough of the private rich friends you know, the private 399 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:50.940 the private investors and you're now ready to do your essentially 400 00:19:50.940 --> 00:19:55.230 your final round of equity funding is by selling shares to 401 00:19:55.230 --> 00:19:59.610 the public market and Coinbase is not doing that. 402 00:19:59.780 --> 00:20:02.750 Allyson Berger: completely, a ballsy approach, 403 00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:07.280 Sean Murray: it wouldn't be at the if they needed the money. 404 00:20:07.430 --> 00:20:07.790 Allyson Berger: Right. 405 00:20:07.820 --> 00:20:10.130 Sean Murray: But they're doing so well. Yeah, they're making so 406 00:20:10.130 --> 00:20:13.010 much money. That was actually my first thought, why do they need 407 00:20:13.010 --> 00:20:17.150 to do an IPO? Because aren't they making like, a billion 408 00:20:17.150 --> 00:20:17.600 dollars? 409 00:20:17.810 --> 00:20:20.330 Allyson Berger: Right. And we spoke about them on Monday, 410 00:20:20.360 --> 00:20:22.490 about how well they've been doing because they're the 411 00:20:22.490 --> 00:20:24.470 largest cryptocurrency exchange. 412 00:20:24.500 --> 00:20:24.800 Sean Murray: Yep. 413 00:20:24.980 --> 00:20:28.370 Allyson Berger: And so they're an exchange. There don't, they 414 00:20:28.370 --> 00:20:29.390 are not Bitcoin. 415 00:20:29.900 --> 00:20:30.470 Sean Murray: That's right. 416 00:20:30.500 --> 00:20:33.080 Allyson Berger: Yeah. It is important to know, they're not 417 00:20:33.080 --> 00:20:36.950 Bitcoin, they're an exchange, they make their money from fees, 418 00:20:37.520 --> 00:20:41.150 different Bitcoin and cryptocurrency transactions. And 419 00:20:42.050 --> 00:20:43.880 all everyone's talking about today. 420 00:20:44.140 --> 00:20:46.660 Sean Murray: Yeah, it's all it's all anyone's talking about. And 421 00:20:46.660 --> 00:20:49.630 so the way that the direct listing works is that they're 422 00:20:49.630 --> 00:20:52.540 essentially selling shares, private shares that they already 423 00:20:52.540 --> 00:20:57.550 had. So people who, who worked with a company who got shares as 424 00:20:57.550 --> 00:21:00.250 part of their compensation, can now sell them on the open 425 00:21:00.250 --> 00:21:03.760 market. So the way that they can essentially, you know, get rich 426 00:21:03.760 --> 00:21:07.000 themselves, they can take whatever share they've gotten, 427 00:21:07.540 --> 00:21:11.950 and now sell it for what we're hearing could be $350 a share. 428 00:21:11.980 --> 00:21:14.770 Now, they could all become millionaires. Yeah. Basically, 429 00:21:14.770 --> 00:21:20.140 overnight. And so I think it's a way for them to reward all those 430 00:21:20.140 --> 00:21:22.540 who have been with them all this way. I don't know what they're 431 00:21:22.540 --> 00:21:24.940 getting paid. You know what I mean? But if you were 432 00:21:24.940 --> 00:21:25.600 Allyson Berger: Probably well 433 00:21:25.600 --> 00:21:27.336 Sean Murray: Probably getting pay well, I imagine I imagined 434 00:21:27.336 --> 00:21:27.986 pretty well. But if you join, if you join a startup, like a tech 435 00:21:29.560 --> 00:21:30.260 Allyson Berger: Very exciting. Right in the middle of it all. 436 00:21:31.986 --> 00:21:36.156 startup, usually the incentive is that in lieu of getting paid, 437 00:21:36.636 --> 00:21:39.156 you know, half million dollars, you know, half a million dollars 438 00:21:39.156 --> 00:21:42.726 a year, they give you shares of stock. And if the company goes 439 00:21:42.726 --> 00:21:43.216 public, that's where you get your reward. And so you have an 440 00:21:44.260 --> 00:21:44.520 Sean Murray: Yeah, yeah, exactly. He's right in Time 441 00:21:45.216 --> 00:21:48.486 incentive to help the company get there. And so that's what's 442 00:21:48.486 --> 00:21:50.466 happening. It's, it's like a big reward for them. And it's so 443 00:21:50.466 --> 00:21:53.436 it's going public today. We actually have Kevin Travers, out 444 00:21:53.437 --> 00:21:54.576 there in Times Square too. 445 00:21:54.576 --> 00:22:02.320 Square, you know where he's right. He was telling you 446 00:22:02.320 --> 00:22:05.320 before, he's right below the NASDAQ sign, and they're talking 447 00:22:05.320 --> 00:22:09.160 to some people about Bitcoin is stuff today. And as you 448 00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:14.440 mentioned, Coinbase is not Bitcoin. But I have a Coinbase 449 00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:17.830 account. Okay. Yeah. And I've had one for quite a while. I 450 00:22:17.830 --> 00:22:20.320 think I'm supposed to disclose that. It's like a journalist. 451 00:22:20.320 --> 00:22:20.860 I'm not sure 452 00:22:20.890 --> 00:22:21.850 Allyson Berger: You didn't hear anything. Okay 453 00:22:22.780 --> 00:22:24.430 Sean Murray: No, but I have a Coinbase account. It's not the 454 00:22:24.430 --> 00:22:26.710 first time I've revealed it. I've had a coin base account for 455 00:22:26.710 --> 00:22:27.850 about seven years. 456 00:22:27.930 --> 00:22:30.330 Allyson Berger: Okay. And you obviously enjoy having it? 457 00:22:31.230 --> 00:22:34.200 Sean Murray: I don't know if I don't know if enjoy. Yeah, 458 00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:36.730 Allyson Berger: You didn't get rid of it after you know, a 459 00:22:36.730 --> 00:22:37.300 year. 460 00:22:37.450 --> 00:22:40.120 Sean Murray: That is true. Yeah, I didn't get rid of it. I one of 461 00:22:40.120 --> 00:22:44.800 the people who trusted it, kind of from the beginning. The whole 462 00:22:45.070 --> 00:22:49.060 conspiracy in the Bitcoin world that if you don't, if you don't 463 00:22:49.060 --> 00:22:52.420 have the private key to your Bitcoin, it's not your Bitcoin. 464 00:22:52.570 --> 00:22:55.870 And so I'm essentially trusting that Coinbase is not going to 465 00:22:55.870 --> 00:22:59.650 run off with my Bitcoin. I don't control it. They do. Right. And 466 00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:02.350 that was a risk I was willing to take. When I signed up seven 467 00:23:02.350 --> 00:23:06.970 years ago, I saw them as being the most legitimate exchange, 468 00:23:07.150 --> 00:23:11.830 and really active in trying to be compliant with regulations 469 00:23:11.830 --> 00:23:14.920 that didn't even exist. Yeah. Even in there. Like, like, they 470 00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:16.660 were literally going after me, like, what do we need to do? 471 00:23:16.660 --> 00:23:18.970 Allyson Berger: Right. Coinbase has done a really good job with 472 00:23:18.970 --> 00:23:22.690 securing information and knowing who their customer is, and 473 00:23:22.810 --> 00:23:25.270 taking care of that aspect of their business. So it'll be 474 00:23:25.270 --> 00:23:28.630 interesting to see how they continue to do that and fraud 475 00:23:28.630 --> 00:23:31.060 protection moving forward with going public. 476 00:23:31.180 --> 00:23:33.400 Sean Murray: Yeah, well, yeah. Now they're going to be, you 477 00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:36.070 know, under double scrutiny. Yeah. Like for sure. And, 478 00:23:36.190 --> 00:23:38.860 Allyson Berger: Like, are they gonna take on, you know, two 479 00:23:38.860 --> 00:23:43.720 factor authentication? That's a big word. Yeah. I am small, So 480 00:23:43.720 --> 00:23:47.770 that's big word, you know, doing those types of measures to 481 00:23:47.770 --> 00:23:50.620 really secure your Coinbase wallet. 482 00:23:50.870 --> 00:23:53.180 Sean Murray: Yeah. I mean, I imagine there has to be more 483 00:23:53.180 --> 00:23:56.240 than two factor. You know, I think people talk about things 484 00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:59.630 like cold wallets, you know, Okay, with that whole concept a 485 00:23:59.630 --> 00:24:03.020 little bit. Yeah, it's a, you essentially take your private 486 00:24:03.020 --> 00:24:06.680 key, and instead of keeping it as you know, in a digital file 487 00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:11.270 somewhere, you essentially write it down. The key is just a long, 488 00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:14.330 alphanumeric. Yeah, a lot of numbers. A lot of Yeah, a lot of 489 00:24:14.330 --> 00:24:18.110 numbers. And you can store that someplace like in a safe. And 490 00:24:18.110 --> 00:24:19.970 that is your Bitcoin is essentially that the string of 491 00:24:19.970 --> 00:24:23.570 your private key? You know what I mean? So doesn't even have to 492 00:24:23.570 --> 00:24:25.970 be on a computer. And that's essentially what cold storage 493 00:24:25.970 --> 00:24:28.280 is, is that, well, some people consider cold storage off the 494 00:24:28.280 --> 00:24:31.220 internet, but I think true cold storage, is when you've, you've 495 00:24:31.220 --> 00:24:35.120 converted it from Digital to non-digital. Yeah, I mean, like, 496 00:24:35.150 --> 00:24:38.960 you can't get in your hand. No one can hack it, because, you 497 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:40.490 know, it's not on a computer. Right? 498 00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:43.290 Allyson Berger: All very interesting. It's also, you 499 00:24:43.290 --> 00:24:46.560 know, I wonder how this is going to change people's mindset on 500 00:24:46.590 --> 00:24:49.530 those that are still a little skeptical about going towards 501 00:24:49.530 --> 00:24:52.830 cryptocurrency, or that this is going to help them want to go 502 00:24:52.830 --> 00:24:55.590 towards it more because it's becoming more mainstream. It'll 503 00:24:55.590 --> 00:24:59.610 be very interesting to see how today goes and what comes of it. 504 00:24:59.690 --> 00:25:02.120 Sean Murray: Yeah. We were talking about Coinstar recently 505 00:25:02.120 --> 00:25:04.910 and how they're making Bitcoin available at Coinstar put your 506 00:25:04.910 --> 00:25:08.930 change in and and get coins out of it. So that's an indication 507 00:25:08.930 --> 00:25:12.290 of, you know, it's a it's a, it's a path for it to go 508 00:25:12.290 --> 00:25:16.400 mainstream people need to use it to actually, you know, conduct 509 00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:19.400 transactions and stuff. And they're not there yet. But the 510 00:25:19.400 --> 00:25:23.630 other clue that the Coinbase not IPO, but the Coinbase direct 511 00:25:23.630 --> 00:25:28.040 listing is big for, I don't know up for adoption, but for 512 00:25:28.040 --> 00:25:32.510 mainstream recognition, is that the price of bitcoin? And I hate 513 00:25:32.510 --> 00:25:35.090 talking about the price, because I'm not a speculator, but the 514 00:25:35.090 --> 00:25:38.210 price of bitcoin has been going up, and has it has been going up 515 00:25:38.210 --> 00:25:41.690 steadily in advance of this listing today, it was up to like 516 00:25:41.690 --> 00:25:46.910 $65,000, I think, as of this morning, and aetherium. For 517 00:25:46.910 --> 00:25:51.050 those who are aware of aetherium was has also been creeping up, 518 00:25:51.050 --> 00:25:55.100 it was worth about 2320 $400. And when you go into Coinbase 519 00:25:55.100 --> 00:25:59.120 today is no longer just Bitcoin and Ethereum. Oh, it really used 520 00:25:59.120 --> 00:26:03.170 to be just Bitcoin, then it was like Litecoin and aetherium. 521 00:26:03.170 --> 00:26:05.510 Those are like kind of like the three Yeah. And then they added 522 00:26:05.510 --> 00:26:09.890 ripple. And ripple has gotten in trouble with the SEC securities. 523 00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:13.400 Hey, right. So there's there's that whole thing. And now if you 524 00:26:13.400 --> 00:26:16.490 go into Coinbase, which I did this morning, because not iPO 525 00:26:16.700 --> 00:26:19.070 direct listing day. Yeah, I'm like, hey, let's go see what all 526 00:26:19.070 --> 00:26:24.260 the fuss is about. And now you can buy tons of crypto, like 527 00:26:24.290 --> 00:26:25.790 things I've never even heard of. 528 00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:28.340 Allyson Berger: Wow. Okay. Yeah. So they're already making 529 00:26:28.370 --> 00:26:29.000 changes? 530 00:26:29.040 --> 00:26:30.750 Sean Murray: Yeah, you can go I don't know how many it was it 531 00:26:30.750 --> 00:26:34.320 looked like 30 or 40. Different kinds. So if you're like one of 532 00:26:34.320 --> 00:26:37.080 those people who, you know, really wants to check it out. 533 00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:41.190 Coinbase is kind of proving to the world that they are 534 00:26:41.190 --> 00:26:45.810 obviously pretty legitimate, you know, going public brings a lot 535 00:26:45.810 --> 00:26:48.330 of regulatory scrutiny, definitely. And they're making 536 00:26:48.330 --> 00:26:50.970 available all these crypto coins, things I've never even 537 00:26:50.970 --> 00:26:53.460 heard of available. And so it's a big moment for the industry. 538 00:26:53.490 --> 00:26:56.460 Allyson Berger: Definitely. It's a it's, it's big, it's really 539 00:26:56.460 --> 00:26:59.670 big, it is really big chain making big changes. And it's, 540 00:26:59.730 --> 00:27:02.370 it'll be interesting to see how much it affects other things, 541 00:27:02.580 --> 00:27:06.690 even heard this morning about how some people are concerned 542 00:27:06.690 --> 00:27:10.920 about this, because of you know, what's going on with China and 543 00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:14.670 how you know, if they may be able to hack into it, and now 544 00:27:14.670 --> 00:27:19.260 change the power power struggle between US and China. So who 545 00:27:19.260 --> 00:27:20.190 knows what's to come? 546 00:27:20.190 --> 00:27:22.460 Sean Murray: Yeah, and the whole China thing. And, you know, I 547 00:27:22.460 --> 00:27:24.110 know, we don't have that much more time, but the whole China 548 00:27:24.110 --> 00:27:27.560 thing has to do with has to do with mining power. So the way 549 00:27:27.560 --> 00:27:30.860 that Bitcoin transactions are validated, is through miners, 550 00:27:30.890 --> 00:27:34.850 who are all trying to guess a number. And when a mining 551 00:27:34.850 --> 00:27:38.120 machine gets the correct number set by the blockchain, it 552 00:27:38.120 --> 00:27:43.430 releases a reward of Bitcoin to that miner. And that, that's all 553 00:27:43.430 --> 00:27:45.620 fine and good. That's just the structure of it. But when you 554 00:27:45.620 --> 00:27:50.240 control if someone were to ever control more than 51%, of the 555 00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:55.190 mining power, they can actually ship the direction of the 556 00:27:55.190 --> 00:27:58.790 blockchain the way they want. And when you control the 557 00:27:58.790 --> 00:28:01.610 blockchain, you can control which transactions get recorded 558 00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:04.970 and which don't. And so that's one of the threats of that. How 559 00:28:04.970 --> 00:28:08.360 much mining power are Chinese miners contributing? Because if 560 00:28:08.360 --> 00:28:11.420 it's more than 51%, well, then the whole currency could 561 00:28:11.420 --> 00:28:15.470 essentially be set, you know, indirectly controlled by the 562 00:28:15.500 --> 00:28:17.210 Chinese government. And so 563 00:28:17.210 --> 00:28:18.410 Allyson Berger: We don't want thatto happen 564 00:28:18.450 --> 00:28:21.960 Sean Murray: No. against the whole spirit of it. Yeah. And so 565 00:28:21.990 --> 00:28:24.840 that that would be a bummer. If anyone would ever get 51%. 566 00:28:25.140 --> 00:28:29.250 Control, none of that 51% attack. Wow. That's Yeah, so 567 00:28:29.250 --> 00:28:31.380 that's, that's something to be mindful of, like, when you read 568 00:28:31.380 --> 00:28:36.750 about Bitcoin. It is a beautiful technical thing. And it's true 569 00:28:36.750 --> 00:28:40.410 that no one has ever essentially hacked Bitcoin. But that doesn't 570 00:28:40.410 --> 00:28:45.150 mean that it can't be attacked in some way. Because if somebody 571 00:28:45.150 --> 00:28:48.330 were to control 51% of the money power, they can control the 572 00:28:48.330 --> 00:28:53.280 blockchain in that all the transaction in it forward and 573 00:28:53.280 --> 00:28:56.220 backwards. And that's a very, that's a very dangerous thing. 574 00:28:56.280 --> 00:28:58.290 all your money can be could essentially be rendered 575 00:28:58.290 --> 00:29:00.990 worthless if somebody were to get 51% control. 576 00:29:01.110 --> 00:29:02.880 Allyson Berger: And this is why some people don't want to get 577 00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:03.930 involved in cryptocurrency. 578 00:29:03.930 --> 00:29:07.680 Sean Murray: 51% percent, China's gonna hack it, you're 579 00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:09.720 gonna hack in, and all this stuff. You're like, you know 580 00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:13.200 what, Shawn had me convinced in the beginning, but now I'm not 581 00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:13.950 gonna buy any of that 582 00:29:15.780 --> 00:29:19.770 Allyson Berger: I'll keep my cash but this was such a great 583 00:29:19.770 --> 00:29:22.650 episode we had I had a lot of fun. I was about to say we had a 584 00:29:22.650 --> 00:29:24.120 lot of fun. I'm speaking for you. now. 585 00:29:24.150 --> 00:29:29.370 Sean Murray: I had a little fun. No I had a lot of fun 586 00:29:29.730 --> 00:29:32.400 Allyson Berger: And I hope you guys get to watching at home. It 587 00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:36.180 was great having you and thanks for having me this week on 588 00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:36.720 livestreams. 589 00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:38.010 Sean Murray: No problem. We'll have to do it again. 590 00:29:38.010 --> 00:29:39.420 Allyson Berger: Sounds good to me. Bye, everyone. 591 00:29:39.870 --> 00:29:40.500 Sean Murray: Bye, everybody.