1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.550 Sean Murray: Welcome back to deBanked tv live. My name is 2 00:00:02.550 --> 00:00:06.330 Sean Murray. Johnny Fernandez is out today. So it's just me and 3 00:00:06.330 --> 00:00:09.780 you. I want to talk about an article that came out. But 4 00:00:09.780 --> 00:00:13.350 first, I want to wish everyone a Happy Easter, happy Passover, 5 00:00:13.350 --> 00:00:16.770 hope you had a wonderful week and weekend with the holidays. 6 00:00:17.820 --> 00:00:21.360 And now back to reality. The article on our site today is 7 00:00:21.360 --> 00:00:25.140 about broker blacklisting. And I think it's a really good topic. 8 00:00:25.410 --> 00:00:27.960 It's one that I think is worthy of a live discussion, we could 9 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:31.200 easily record these things. But I think it's worthy of a live 10 00:00:31.200 --> 00:00:35.880 discussion, and that's because the entire concept is built 11 00:00:35.880 --> 00:00:39.480 around regulating brokers, when we talk about a broker 12 00:00:39.480 --> 00:00:44.160 blacklist, there seems to be this, this undertone of how do 13 00:00:44.160 --> 00:00:48.030 we regulate them. And I think what people don't realize that 14 00:00:48.390 --> 00:00:51.420 there already is a degree of regulation in this industry. 15 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:54.990 And, of course, people are always saying the industry is 16 00:00:55.020 --> 00:00:58.530 unregulated but that's simply not true. And I want to make 17 00:00:58.530 --> 00:01:01.590 sure that anyone out there and everyone out there, if you are a 18 00:01:01.590 --> 00:01:04.500 broker in the small business, finance space, with the 19 00:01:04.500 --> 00:01:09.930 impression that this business is unregulated, you are wrong, or 20 00:01:09.930 --> 00:01:14.040 that brokers need regulation to stop doing bad things, you're 21 00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:17.490 also wrong. And that is because if someone is going to do 22 00:01:17.490 --> 00:01:20.580 something bad, they're going to do it, whether it's wrong or 23 00:01:20.580 --> 00:01:24.750 not. In fact, that already happens. I hear constantly from 24 00:01:25.530 --> 00:01:29.850 folks in the business, that we need to put in some type of 25 00:01:30.060 --> 00:01:34.200 rules in place to prevent bad actors from doing bad things. 26 00:01:34.650 --> 00:01:37.860 But bad actors are always, are always going to do bad things. 27 00:01:37.860 --> 00:01:42.600 And I want to give you an example of how brokers have 28 00:01:42.600 --> 00:01:47.640 already gotten in trouble under existing rules. And this has 29 00:01:47.640 --> 00:01:50.190 happened many times, maybe you missed it, we put it up on our 30 00:01:50.190 --> 00:01:55.320 site, sometimes it makes the news. And it just kind of fades 31 00:01:55.320 --> 00:01:58.380 away. And we don't really think of it as regulation or anything. 32 00:01:58.410 --> 00:02:02.790 But it is. And a common way for brokers to get in trouble is 33 00:02:02.790 --> 00:02:06.000 when they charge an upfront fee to a merchant and then they 34 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:08.460 don't come through with the financing or the funding that 35 00:02:08.460 --> 00:02:11.310 they promised. There have been circumstances - this is called 36 00:02:11.310 --> 00:02:14.760 an advance in advance fee scheme, it's actually illegal, 37 00:02:14.760 --> 00:02:18.630 it's against the law, you can't charge. You can't charge someone 38 00:02:18.630 --> 00:02:21.150 to find them a loan. and then whether or not you ended up 39 00:02:21.150 --> 00:02:23.610 coming through with it, you know, may not make any 40 00:02:23.610 --> 00:02:27.150 difference. Just charging them charging them an upfront fee can 41 00:02:27.150 --> 00:02:30.480 be enough to get you in trouble, and there have been brokers over 42 00:02:30.480 --> 00:02:33.660 the years that have not only gotten in trouble for doing 43 00:02:33.660 --> 00:02:38.820 this, they've gotten arrested, some have gone to jail. So, this 44 00:02:38.820 --> 00:02:42.240 type of activity is already illegal. And if you know someone 45 00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:47.070 doing it, creating regulation, passing legislation isn't going 46 00:02:47.070 --> 00:02:53.430 to create a new level of hurdles or obstacles. They're already 47 00:02:53.430 --> 00:02:55.650 going they're already going to do it, it's already going to be 48 00:02:55.650 --> 00:03:00.030 illegal. And that feeds into, Well, how come so many people 49 00:03:00.030 --> 00:03:04.020 are out there doing bad things? I think we forget about what it 50 00:03:04.020 --> 00:03:10.440 takes to stop bad actors. If, if the party that was victimized, 51 00:03:10.590 --> 00:03:15.900 does not report that they were victimized, the regulator's the 52 00:03:15.930 --> 00:03:19.920 authorities, they're not going to know they don't magically 53 00:03:19.920 --> 00:03:24.120 know when something bad happens. So if you've heard stories about 54 00:03:24.120 --> 00:03:28.470 merchants getting victimized borrowers getting victimized, 55 00:03:28.860 --> 00:03:32.520 and you're like, How come nobody is stopped, these people? well 56 00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:35.220 if no one's reporting it, then how are they going to get in 57 00:03:35.220 --> 00:03:39.450 trouble the regulators in law enforcement, they don't know. 58 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:43.650 Unless someone tells them unless somebody complains and so part 59 00:03:43.650 --> 00:03:47.400 of part of regulate, you know, part of cleaning up the 60 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:52.470 business, is making sure that if you see a behavior or activities 61 00:03:52.470 --> 00:03:56.430 that you know to be illegal, then you need to go and report 62 00:03:56.430 --> 00:04:00.090 it. Because if you don't, well, it's going to continue, because 63 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:04.200 they're not going to magically know. There are people that have 64 00:04:04.230 --> 00:04:08.370 that have gotten in trouble. And it's not just it's not just law 65 00:04:08.370 --> 00:04:11.490 enforcement. It's not just criminal activity. I know that 66 00:04:11.490 --> 00:04:15.270 other people complain about things like bait and switches, 67 00:04:16.020 --> 00:04:18.420 you have, let's say you're talking to a customer and that 68 00:04:18.420 --> 00:04:21.300 customer, they wanted your product, but then they decided 69 00:04:21.300 --> 00:04:23.670 to go with a competitor because their competitor was offering 70 00:04:23.670 --> 00:04:27.060 something that sounded too good to be true. You told the 71 00:04:27.060 --> 00:04:30.210 customer potential customer is sounded too good to be true. 72 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:34.050 They went with the other offer anyway. And it turns out it was 73 00:04:34.050 --> 00:04:37.290 too good to be true. They didn't get what they wanted. And you're 74 00:04:37.290 --> 00:04:40.020 mad at your competitor and you're like somebody's got to 75 00:04:40.020 --> 00:04:44.460 create some type of law to stop that from happening. Well, 76 00:04:44.970 --> 00:04:48.960 deceptive marketing, deceptive advertising is already illegal. 77 00:04:49.320 --> 00:04:53.820 So, you can report things like, you can report things like that. 78 00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:57.480 And it doesn't mean you need to go out there and start reporting 79 00:04:57.480 --> 00:04:59.370 everybody I'm not saying that like hey, you need to go out 80 00:04:59.370 --> 00:05:02.220 there and snitch on all the bad people. But there are already 81 00:05:02.220 --> 00:05:05.550 rules in place. So if you're if you're dealing with competition, 82 00:05:05.760 --> 00:05:09.420 that is resorting to unethical behavior, perhaps even criminal 83 00:05:09.420 --> 00:05:12.360 behavior, if nobody's reporting it, then it's not going to 84 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:15.060 matter what kind of laws you are, what kind of laws you pass 85 00:05:15.090 --> 00:05:18.180 what kind of regulation you create, because there's already 86 00:05:18.180 --> 00:05:21.990 things there to deal with a lot of it. And I think that if 87 00:05:21.990 --> 00:05:24.720 you're newer to the business, you need to get comfortable with 88 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:28.560 this type of this type of arrangement. And that's because 89 00:05:28.890 --> 00:05:35.100 the idea of bringing regulation or legislation to stop unethical 90 00:05:35.100 --> 00:05:39.090 activity has been talked about 10-15 years since I've been 91 00:05:39.090 --> 00:05:41.970 following the business, everyone seems to be waiting around on 92 00:05:41.970 --> 00:05:45.780 everyone. There are folks who seem to be waiting around hoping 93 00:05:45.780 --> 00:05:48.360 that there's going to be some type of law that comes out, that 94 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:52.020 stops the bad people from doing the bad things. And until then 95 00:05:52.020 --> 00:05:54.390 your business is going to suffer, because you can't 96 00:05:54.390 --> 00:05:58.050 compete with the bad people doing bad things. A better way 97 00:05:58.080 --> 00:06:03.300 to look at it is if you're going to exist in a business where bad 98 00:06:03.300 --> 00:06:06.600 people are going to do bad things, you need to find a way 99 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:10.140 to work around it. If your competitors are being unethical 100 00:06:10.170 --> 00:06:14.160 saying things that aren't true. What can you do to compete 101 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:18.480 against that, there must be something because if your plan 102 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:21.480 is to just wait for them to get in trouble or a law to come out, 103 00:06:21.690 --> 00:06:24.360 that's going to stop them. I don't think that's going to 104 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:27.030 work. Because people have been waiting for quite a long time 105 00:06:27.030 --> 00:06:31.590 for some type of massive, I don't know, rule or law or 106 00:06:31.590 --> 00:06:34.740 something to come out to, to take care of all the things they 107 00:06:34.740 --> 00:06:39.720 hate. But not a lot, not a whole lot of new stuff has come out to 108 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:42.570 combat it. Now, there are existing laws, as I mentioned, 109 00:06:42.840 --> 00:06:45.570 and existing rules, as I mentioned, that can already 110 00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:49.920 prevent this type of stuff, or stop it. But in terms of waiting 111 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:52.020 around for something new to stop your competitors from doing 112 00:06:52.140 --> 00:06:54.390 unethical things, you're gonna be waiting for a long time, you 113 00:06:54.390 --> 00:06:58.560 need to realize that in a in a industry or in a market, there's 114 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:01.590 going to be bad actors, and you need to figure out how to 115 00:07:02.100 --> 00:07:06.750 profitably operate with them in business doesn't mean you can't 116 00:07:06.750 --> 00:07:10.140 work to get them out. There are ways to get them out. But you 117 00:07:10.140 --> 00:07:13.050 can't just sit around and wait. While while your business 118 00:07:13.050 --> 00:07:16.470 suffers need to figure out a plan a roadmap, a strategy that 119 00:07:16.470 --> 00:07:19.380 allows you to stay competitive and be profitable while they're 120 00:07:19.380 --> 00:07:22.290 doing their thing. And until they're no longer around. So I 121 00:07:22.290 --> 00:07:26.670 hope people, I hope people are aware of these things is not an 122 00:07:26.670 --> 00:07:30.840 unregulated business.Brokers have gotten in trouble. Funders 123 00:07:30.840 --> 00:07:36.240 have gotten in trouble. Another example are brokers who have 124 00:07:36.270 --> 00:07:41.760 stolen data. Brokers who went from one company, and they took 125 00:07:41.760 --> 00:07:44.730 the data, they bought it to another company, they used it in 126 00:07:44.730 --> 00:07:47.130 some way to their advantage when that information was 127 00:07:47.250 --> 00:07:49.350 confidential to the to the company, they took it from. 128 00:07:49.380 --> 00:07:53.250 Guess what? People have been arrested for that! And if you're 129 00:07:53.250 --> 00:07:57.690 thinking Wait, seriously? Yes, it has happened. And you don't 130 00:07:57.690 --> 00:07:59.580 want your whole day to be consumed with how do you get the 131 00:07:59.580 --> 00:08:02.190 bad people in trouble. But realize that there are already 132 00:08:02.190 --> 00:08:07.830 laws in place that can deal with this type of thing. And so if 133 00:08:07.830 --> 00:08:10.770 you don't report it, you know, no one's going to know. And for 134 00:08:10.770 --> 00:08:13.800 those who are dedicated to rooting it out, it usually ends 135 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:15.690 up like I said, and like somebody getting arrested 136 00:08:15.690 --> 00:08:18.210 somebody, somebody get in trouble, but learn to work 137 00:08:18.210 --> 00:08:22.410 around this stuff, while these people slowly get eradicated 138 00:08:22.440 --> 00:08:23.340 from the business. 139 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:29.130 And that brings me to another topic, because people are 140 00:08:29.130 --> 00:08:33.300 waiting around for legislation regulation to stop the bad 141 00:08:33.300 --> 00:08:36.690 people. And so when legislation and regulation is proposed, 142 00:08:37.020 --> 00:08:41.190 there are those who look at it at face value. And they say, I'm 143 00:08:41.190 --> 00:08:44.460 in favor of this law. I'm in favor of this rule, because I am 144 00:08:44.460 --> 00:08:48.180 a good guy. And I think that this law, this rule is going to 145 00:08:48.180 --> 00:08:52.320 stop the bad people. And I think it's a mistake to not look at 146 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:56.820 it, that the subject of whatever the proposal is in great detail, 147 00:08:56.850 --> 00:09:00.630 because I think, and I've seen this a lot, you run into 148 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:05.070 circumstances in which people are essentially advocating for 149 00:09:05.070 --> 00:09:09.450 their own demise, and not even knowing it, because the proposal 150 00:09:09.510 --> 00:09:12.780 creates all these restrictions that will impede the business 151 00:09:12.900 --> 00:09:16.650 that they do. And I think everyone is I say everyone, I 152 00:09:16.650 --> 00:09:20.040 don't mean everyone, I think that there can be a tendency for 153 00:09:20.040 --> 00:09:23.490 people to put themselves in a box of good guy and bad guy, 154 00:09:23.520 --> 00:09:26.070 when the hero of a new rule coming out a new law. They're 155 00:09:26.070 --> 00:09:30.120 like, I am a good guy. This law will stop the bad guys. And then 156 00:09:30.150 --> 00:09:33.720 one of the rules starts to come to fruition. They realize that: 157 00:09:33.750 --> 00:09:37.380 Wait, this is going to affect me too, I will no longer be able to 158 00:09:37.680 --> 00:09:42.000 carry on my business as I was. How can this be? I'm a good guy. 159 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:45.960 And that's because legislators and regulators. They're not 160 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:48.960 looking at it like that. They don't work in the business. And 161 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:53.670 so they they tend to just create this big, gigantic band aid or 162 00:09:53.670 --> 00:09:58.500 fix and it ends up affecting the good guys to it ends up impeding 163 00:09:58.500 --> 00:10:00.870 them in ways perhaps they didn't attend, maybe ways that didn't 164 00:10:00.870 --> 00:10:04.650 end. But it can cover everybody. And it can hurt your business if 165 00:10:04.650 --> 00:10:07.770 you were one of the good people. So, I would just say as a point 166 00:10:07.770 --> 00:10:10.830 of advice, when you hear about a new rule coming out a new law 167 00:10:10.830 --> 00:10:14.520 coming out, don't just jump on board and say, yeah, I support 168 00:10:14.520 --> 00:10:18.060 it for this kind of get the bad guys, you will oftentimes find 169 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:21.330 one regulation that comes out that has a really nice name 170 00:10:21.330 --> 00:10:23.790 attached to it usually is something that sounds like it's 171 00:10:24.060 --> 00:10:27.630 about ethics, or morals or whatever. When you start reading 172 00:10:27.630 --> 00:10:30.120 the fine print, and you start getting the details, it's 173 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:34.800 actually going to negatively impact you. And so you'll find 174 00:10:35.580 --> 00:10:41.160 companies, people, leaders who are against a bill that sounds 175 00:10:41.160 --> 00:10:43.830 at face value positive, and you're like, well, how can that 176 00:10:43.830 --> 00:10:46.170 be? I thought they were good people? Well, it's, that's 177 00:10:46.170 --> 00:10:49.260 because they read the details of the bill. And they realize it's 178 00:10:49.260 --> 00:10:52.380 actually going to adversely impact the good guys to it's 179 00:10:52.380 --> 00:10:54.870 going to impact their business. And they want something that 180 00:10:54.870 --> 00:10:58.200 makes sense. Nobody wants the bad guys, you know, to be 181 00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:01.380 operating. And so when you hear about a new law and new new 182 00:11:01.380 --> 00:11:04.950 rule, I know you're all out there carrying on your business 183 00:11:04.950 --> 00:11:07.320 on a day to day thing, you work on the front lines, and all of 184 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:10.410 that stuff. But make sure that if you're an if you're an 185 00:11:10.410 --> 00:11:14.430 advocate for a new rule, a new law, that you fully understand 186 00:11:14.430 --> 00:11:17.130 what's in it, and how it will affect you afterwards, because 187 00:11:17.130 --> 00:11:20.250 it's not so black and white is good guy, or bad guy. There's a 188 00:11:20.250 --> 00:11:24.390 lot, a lot more dimensions to it. And we saw that in in in New 189 00:11:24.390 --> 00:11:31.410 York. I think that not that many people realize, how much of an 190 00:11:31.410 --> 00:11:35.850 impact the law that passed late last year that goes into effect 191 00:11:35.880 --> 00:11:40.800 in June, is going to impact the so called good guys of the 192 00:11:40.800 --> 00:11:45.900 business. If this was a essentially a broker licensing, 193 00:11:45.930 --> 00:11:48.090 it was a disclosure law. It was the disclosure law and people 194 00:11:48.090 --> 00:11:50.700 were people are saying, Well, I'm in favor of disclosure. 195 00:11:50.940 --> 00:11:53.640 Those who are not in favor of disclosure are bad, and people 196 00:11:53.640 --> 00:11:56.580 who are in favor of disclosure are good. And I'm on the good 197 00:11:56.580 --> 00:12:00.390 side. Why wouldn't we disclose? Well, there are things in that 198 00:12:00.390 --> 00:12:03.690 bill, things in that law, that are going to impact your 199 00:12:03.690 --> 00:12:07.500 business significantly, even if you're a good guy. So I hope 200 00:12:07.500 --> 00:12:11.400 that you're taking it seriously. Whether it's something small or 201 00:12:11.400 --> 00:12:13.830 big, that you that you understand it, before you 202 00:12:13.830 --> 00:12:19.380 advocate for it, because when unpopular bills come out, the 203 00:12:19.410 --> 00:12:22.560 regulators or legislators, they look for those in the industry 204 00:12:22.560 --> 00:12:26.520 who are in favor of them. And they say, Well, if this bill is 205 00:12:26.520 --> 00:12:30.120 so horrible, why are these people? Why are these people in 206 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:32.880 favor of it, and it could be because those in favor of it, 207 00:12:33.150 --> 00:12:35.880 don't fully understand it. That's something that can 208 00:12:35.880 --> 00:12:39.120 happen. You don't want to be an advocate for your own demise. So 209 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:42.540 I would just urge everyone who's who considers considers 210 00:12:42.540 --> 00:12:45.600 themselves one of the good people of the market of the 211 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:48.540 industry, a good citizen of the of the business for merchants, 212 00:12:48.540 --> 00:12:51.840 all that other stuff, that when you advocate for good things, 213 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:55.230 that you advocate for things that are that are rational, 214 00:12:55.440 --> 00:13:00.630 logical and makes sense and will end will benefit everybody. And 215 00:13:00.870 --> 00:13:04.740 that brings us to the the whole story that came out this 216 00:13:04.740 --> 00:13:07.080 morning, it was written by KevinTravers, who the reporter 217 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:14.430 here, the idea of meeting a blacklist for funders. I think 218 00:13:14.430 --> 00:13:18.630 it's it's interesting, because some of the feedback on this 219 00:13:18.630 --> 00:13:23.970 particular topic, talks about needing a shared database where 220 00:13:23.970 --> 00:13:29.220 funders can leave reviews for brokers, you know, particularly 221 00:13:29.220 --> 00:13:33.420 if it's bad, so that others know. And I wonder if those 222 00:13:33.420 --> 00:13:39.570 funders would also leave bad reviews on sites like Yelp, or 223 00:13:39.690 --> 00:13:43.950 Google, right, you can leave a Google review, Better Business 224 00:13:43.950 --> 00:13:49.170 Bureau, because these are things that merchants will threaten if 225 00:13:49.170 --> 00:13:50.820 they had a bad experience, I'm going to go to the Better 226 00:13:50.820 --> 00:13:53.280 Business Bureau, I'm gonna leave a bad review on Yelp. You know, 227 00:13:53.280 --> 00:13:57.270 I'm gonna go on Google, I want to go on Facebook. And, you 228 00:13:57.270 --> 00:13:59.160 know, I'm gonna leave you a bad review, I'm gonna give you a one 229 00:13:59.160 --> 00:14:04.230 star. And I wonder if those same funders or those same partners 230 00:14:04.230 --> 00:14:08.850 out there are doing if they are willing to leave that same 231 00:14:08.850 --> 00:14:13.050 feedback on the already available databases and sources 232 00:14:13.050 --> 00:14:16.800 out there. Or if they intend for this to be like a secret, 233 00:14:16.830 --> 00:14:20.190 private thing, because if they truly feel like the experience 234 00:14:20.190 --> 00:14:24.090 is bad, you can already kind of let the world know. And I know 235 00:14:24.090 --> 00:14:26.760 that there's a tendency to you know, run on the forums on the 236 00:14:26.790 --> 00:14:30.630 DailyFunder and say, this broker is bad, but you can leave a 237 00:14:30.630 --> 00:14:37.110 public and kind of widely acknowledged and recognized 238 00:14:37.350 --> 00:14:40.800 service online, whether it be Yelp or Google or Facebook and 239 00:14:40.800 --> 00:14:44.670 already share your experience on there. I don't think that that 240 00:14:44.670 --> 00:14:49.770 should be ignored. If, if you're really intent on letting someone 241 00:14:49.770 --> 00:14:53.190 know that you had a bad experience. I think people get 242 00:14:53.190 --> 00:14:59.310 caught up in we need to destroy the business partner that 243 00:14:59.340 --> 00:15:03.000 wronged us. And that you get caught up in, I need to destroy 244 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:05.940 them, I need to make sure that nobody else works with them. I 245 00:15:05.940 --> 00:15:08.190 think that's just detrimental. I don't think anybody needs to 246 00:15:08.190 --> 00:15:10.620 make sure that nobody works with the person you had a bad 247 00:15:10.620 --> 00:15:14.370 experience with. It's a waste of time and a waste energy. I think 248 00:15:14.370 --> 00:15:18.000 you can signal to the marketplace that you had a bad 249 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:21.420 experience, but I don't think you need to make it your mission 250 00:15:21.450 --> 00:15:24.900 to make sure nobody else works with them. And, you know, they 251 00:15:24.900 --> 00:15:27.450 were they were scammers and all that stuff. I think that's, I 252 00:15:27.450 --> 00:15:32.070 think that's a waste of energy. And then when we talk about a 253 00:15:32.070 --> 00:15:35.160 blacklist, obviously, everyone wants to know, who's going to be 254 00:15:35.160 --> 00:15:38.100 managing this thing, not gonna be us, I have no interest in 255 00:15:38.100 --> 00:15:42.840 putting together a blacklist. And one example of a successful 256 00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:45.420 blacklist that was raised in the article was data merchant, it 257 00:15:45.420 --> 00:15:48.180 has to do with merchants and if you had for merchant defaulted, 258 00:15:48.450 --> 00:15:51.660 you can enter their information in data merge. But the same 259 00:15:51.660 --> 00:15:56.850 risks that exist in such a database, there exists in a bad 260 00:15:56.850 --> 00:16:04.110 broker database, in that if you have a bad relationship, if you 261 00:16:04.110 --> 00:16:08.130 have a good relationship with a broker, you know, you could 262 00:16:08.130 --> 00:16:11.550 potentially think about putting a good broker on the list to 263 00:16:11.550 --> 00:16:15.630 prevent other competitors from having a relationship with them. 264 00:16:16.110 --> 00:16:18.930 Now, obviously, the broker is gonna find out, but it could 265 00:16:18.930 --> 00:16:21.930 happen. If you just don't like the person, you could put them 266 00:16:21.930 --> 00:16:24.600 on there say, Well, you know, I just don't like you, I'm going 267 00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:26.820 to ruin your life, I'm going to ruin your business. And I'm 268 00:16:26.820 --> 00:16:29.400 going to put you on this blacklist, I think there's a 269 00:16:29.400 --> 00:16:32.850 potential for people to use in a punitive way, rather than just 270 00:16:32.850 --> 00:16:37.590 information. There's also the potential that people would just 271 00:16:37.590 --> 00:16:44.160 ignore it altogether. It's also hard to kind of track who these 272 00:16:44.160 --> 00:16:47.700 businesses are, are owned by, you should already be doing your 273 00:16:47.700 --> 00:16:50.310 own due diligence. And any partner that you work with, if 274 00:16:50.310 --> 00:16:52.410 you're a founder or a lender, and you're working with any type 275 00:16:52.410 --> 00:16:55.530 of referral partner, you should already know who they are, if 276 00:16:55.530 --> 00:16:57.660 you're getting to the point where like, some random, some 277 00:16:57.660 --> 00:17:03.060 random shop I was working with, sent me some scammy deals and I 278 00:17:03.060 --> 00:17:07.260 want everyone to know. You know, part of that fall might lie with 279 00:17:07.290 --> 00:17:10.320 your having not done due diligence, ahead of time, not 280 00:17:10.320 --> 00:17:14.400 blame, not blaming anyone, but you should already be doing your 281 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:17.430 due diligence ahead of time. And if you're just like, hey, this 282 00:17:17.430 --> 00:17:22.830 company, random company did this to me. They're scammers. I don't 283 00:17:22.830 --> 00:17:25.170 know how much I don't know how much that's gonna get you. 284 00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:28.770 Because you can choose not to work with that broker in the 285 00:17:28.770 --> 00:17:32.850 future and whether or not someone else works with them, I 286 00:17:32.850 --> 00:17:35.700 don't know that that necessarily hurts you, right, you can 287 00:17:35.700 --> 00:17:38.670 already leave them a bad review. So I would just say the idea of 288 00:17:38.670 --> 00:17:41.190 a blacklist is controversial, it's been around for a long 289 00:17:41.190 --> 00:17:45.690 time, I don't know that we'll ever actually have a functional 290 00:17:45.690 --> 00:17:49.110 one, maybe we will, maybe I'll be proven wrong. But that 291 00:17:49.110 --> 00:17:51.420 brought us to another idea that's been kicked around. And 292 00:17:51.420 --> 00:17:57.570 that is a certification course, something that will give brokers 293 00:17:57.570 --> 00:18:01.470 who believe they are good and want to do good to take some 294 00:18:01.470 --> 00:18:06.390 type, of course, some type of examination that credentials 295 00:18:06.390 --> 00:18:09.750 them, that puts them in a higher standing than perhaps some of 296 00:18:09.750 --> 00:18:13.140 their other competitors. And I think that's a good idea. 297 00:18:14.040 --> 00:18:17.910 deBanked put out a course in conjunction with counselor 298 00:18:17.910 --> 00:18:20.610 library a few years ago, but it was very basic, actually called 299 00:18:20.610 --> 00:18:24.150 merchant cash advance basics. And that course is focused on 300 00:18:24.150 --> 00:18:26.670 what is what is the difference between a merchant cash advance 301 00:18:26.970 --> 00:18:30.450 and alone. And it turns out, not everyone was entirely short. So 302 00:18:30.450 --> 00:18:34.950 the course was very beneficial. But it didn't go farther than 303 00:18:34.950 --> 00:18:38.610 that. And so I think when people are talking about certification 304 00:18:38.610 --> 00:18:42.990 course, they're talking about being able to properly 305 00:18:42.990 --> 00:18:48.330 communicate things to a customer, having a clean 306 00:18:48.390 --> 00:18:50.550 background, I don't know what clean means, but some type of 307 00:18:50.550 --> 00:18:54.150 clean background where people can feel comfortable that 308 00:18:54.150 --> 00:18:57.960 they're not dealing with a, you know, someone who's actually 309 00:18:58.050 --> 00:19:03.270 engaged in committing an act of crime or something. And start 310 00:19:03.270 --> 00:19:09.510 there. Possibly, and this goes into the idea of don't advocate 311 00:19:09.510 --> 00:19:13.110 for your own demise, the inclusion of a surety bond, in 312 00:19:13.110 --> 00:19:17.190 that you essentially put up some money, possibly a large amount, 313 00:19:17.340 --> 00:19:21.870 so that if you get in trouble, you're covered. This came up in 314 00:19:21.870 --> 00:19:25.320 I think, in a few of the proposals in some states where 315 00:19:25.560 --> 00:19:28.470 brokers would essentially have to put up some money, you know, 316 00:19:28.470 --> 00:19:32.790 they'd have to be bonded in order to operate. And it sounds 317 00:19:32.790 --> 00:19:35.520 great until you hear that the cost might be like $50,000, 318 00:19:35.550 --> 00:19:39.420 $100,000, $200,000 and if you're a small broker shop you're like 319 00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:43.110 that's a lot of money to put up. And so but this could this could 320 00:19:43.110 --> 00:19:46.740 be part of a some sort of certification. I'm not sure when 321 00:19:46.770 --> 00:19:50.880 we are personally or not working on one. We did here in the story 322 00:19:51.810 --> 00:19:54.330 from Steve Dennis who the executive director of the Small 323 00:19:54.330 --> 00:19:58.260 Business Finance Association, they have a lot of small 324 00:19:58.260 --> 00:20:02.370 business lenders MCA companies as members, and that they are 325 00:20:02.370 --> 00:20:05.340 working on something, I think that's a great thing. I think 326 00:20:05.340 --> 00:20:08.250 that could work because it doesn't focus on the negative, 327 00:20:08.280 --> 00:20:11.280 the blacklist focus on focuses on the negative, and it has the 328 00:20:11.280 --> 00:20:15.240 potential to be punitive, how do we hurt the people who wronged 329 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:18.450 us, and I think that's the wrong approach. Because you're not 330 00:20:18.450 --> 00:20:21.180 gonna be able to enforce any type of monetary penalty, you're 331 00:20:21.180 --> 00:20:23.370 not going to be able to shut their business down. And I don't 332 00:20:23.370 --> 00:20:26.040 think the regulators and you know, lawmakers or whatever, I 333 00:20:26.040 --> 00:20:28.260 don't think they're gonna care that you have a blacklist of bad 334 00:20:28.260 --> 00:20:31.140 people. They want to know what you're doing to elevate your 335 00:20:31.140 --> 00:20:34.140 standards, when you're dealing with customers. And I think a 336 00:20:34.140 --> 00:20:38.580 certification course, is a very, very positive positive thing, is 337 00:20:38.580 --> 00:20:42.840 not punitive. It's a way for the good actors to make themselves 338 00:20:42.840 --> 00:20:45.900 stand apart. I don't know what this looks like, exactly but I 339 00:20:45.900 --> 00:20:51.150 think in terms of what do we need to improve the marketplace, 340 00:20:51.180 --> 00:20:54.780 because we already have laws, we already have the FTC that can 341 00:20:54.810 --> 00:20:57.750 stop people from deceptive marketing, we already have law 342 00:20:57.750 --> 00:21:00.780 enforcement who can stop people from stealing data and from 343 00:21:00.930 --> 00:21:03.570 charging advanced fee, we already have laws for all that. 344 00:21:03.750 --> 00:21:07.080 And if you're still like, well, we still need change, right? 345 00:21:07.110 --> 00:21:10.260 Having a list of bad people isn't going to create change, I 346 00:21:10.290 --> 00:21:14.550 think it's just going to probably create more tension and 347 00:21:15.030 --> 00:21:18.060 I don't know how I don't know how, how much of a positive 348 00:21:18.090 --> 00:21:20.640 impact that will have might have a positive impact to your bottom 349 00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:22.650 line. But other than that, I don't really think it 350 00:21:22.650 --> 00:21:27.990 accomplishes anything in the greater good of this industry 351 00:21:27.990 --> 00:21:30.750 being essentially a good citizen with the customers they are 352 00:21:30.750 --> 00:21:34.890 intended to serve. So, this is my personal opinion and for 353 00:21:34.890 --> 00:21:38.130 anyone who feels differently, that's completely fine. But I 354 00:21:38.130 --> 00:21:42.330 think a certification course, is a really good idea. And I hope 355 00:21:42.330 --> 00:21:45.480 that something like that does come to fruition. And I know 356 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:49.320 that many of you will want to be on board with it but at the same 357 00:21:49.320 --> 00:21:52.890 token, it's something like that does come out. You don't want to 358 00:21:52.890 --> 00:21:55.560 be an advocate for your own demise, I think it would also be 359 00:21:55.560 --> 00:22:00.510 good to know exactly what some type of course entails. So that 360 00:22:00.510 --> 00:22:04.230 is not excluding good actors from being considered part of 361 00:22:04.230 --> 00:22:07.410 the good group. That happens way too often. I'm a good actor, 362 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:10.650 therefore, I'm in support of this and then you find out what 363 00:22:10.650 --> 00:22:13.080 actually impeded your business. You don't want that to happen. 364 00:22:13.830 --> 00:22:17.370 So that was my monologue for today, my live unscripted 365 00:22:17.370 --> 00:22:20.640 monologue on the blacklist article that came out, I think 366 00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:23.760 it's a good discussion that should be had. It's one that's 367 00:22:23.760 --> 00:22:27.540 been around for more than 10 years and so if you're out there 368 00:22:27.540 --> 00:22:30.660 waiting around, or some type of rule come out to stop the bad 369 00:22:30.660 --> 00:22:34.470 guys. It's not going to happen. There's already rules and so 370 00:22:35.100 --> 00:22:39.120 work positivity out there. Don't think punitive when it comes to 371 00:22:39.900 --> 00:22:44.820 your competition. Always think about how you can adjust to 372 00:22:44.850 --> 00:22:47.760 exist in an environment where there are bad actors. We wish 373 00:22:47.760 --> 00:22:50.550 there were not and I'm sure you wish there were none, but that 374 00:22:50.550 --> 00:22:53.610 could be the reality for all time as bad actors in every 375 00:22:53.610 --> 00:22:56.910 business. So with that, I will leave you today with that 376 00:22:56.910 --> 00:23:00.060 thought. Thank you so much for watching. I will be back here 377 00:23:00.060 --> 00:23:04.560 live again on Wednesday with a with a co-host. So until next 378 00:23:04.560 --> 00:23:05.910 time, I'm Sean Murray with deBanked.