1 00:00:03.449 --> 00:00:05.369 Sean Murray: Okay, hello, welcome back. I'm Sean Murray 2 00:00:05.369 --> 00:00:06.089 with deBanked. 3 00:00:06.089 --> 00:00:07.890 Johny Fernandez: And I'm Johnny friends with deBanked News. And 4 00:00:07.890 --> 00:00:10.950 again, we're gonna recap and highlight the news for this 5 00:00:10.950 --> 00:00:16.380 week. It's Wednesday it is March 9th, no 10th 10th. Day off March 6 00:00:16.470 --> 00:00:19.890 10th. So Sean, let's get straight to a big topic that a 7 00:00:19.890 --> 00:00:22.200 lot of people are talking about. And I'm going through this 8 00:00:22.200 --> 00:00:27.840 myself, is taxes. Tax Season is officially here. So let's talk 9 00:00:27.840 --> 00:00:29.520 about that. I mean, obviously, there's been a lot of 10 00:00:29.520 --> 00:00:33.360 conversation, especially when it comes to, you know, unemployment 11 00:00:33.360 --> 00:00:37.530 just like 2020 as a whole, and how accountant and just the tax 12 00:00:37.530 --> 00:00:40.440 season itself. So let's go in and start off your What have you 13 00:00:40.440 --> 00:00:43.260 been seeing? We've been hearing, you know, as someone that, you 14 00:00:43.260 --> 00:00:45.810 know, you have a lot of connections in that accounting 15 00:00:45.810 --> 00:00:46.650 world, too. So 16 00:00:46.720 --> 00:00:51.250 Sean Murray: Sure, yeah. So as far as tax goes, I can talk 17 00:00:51.250 --> 00:00:54.550 about it from the lender perspective. And 2020 was an 18 00:00:54.550 --> 00:00:58.510 interesting year, and that a lot of people had debts that they 19 00:00:58.690 --> 00:01:04.120 could not pay or needed a break on, right. And if you got PPP 20 00:01:04.120 --> 00:01:08.440 money, that money is forgivable, right? But if you took, if you 21 00:01:08.440 --> 00:01:12.580 had a loan from somebody else, and they forgave some of it, 22 00:01:12.610 --> 00:01:15.280 they didn't have to say they forgave some of that debt, 23 00:01:15.580 --> 00:01:18.910 either all of it or a portion of it. What I think a lot of people 24 00:01:18.910 --> 00:01:22.960 don't know is that the forgivable portion could be 25 00:01:22.960 --> 00:01:27.670 taxable. So if you were a borrower, and you had $100,000 26 00:01:27.670 --> 00:01:31.300 loan outstanding, and you struggled, during 2020, they 27 00:01:31.300 --> 00:01:34.210 said, you know, what, we're gonna make $20,000 a bit 28 00:01:34.240 --> 00:01:37.780 forgivable, you know, you only owe us at the variety of 29 00:01:37.780 --> 00:01:40.840 circumstances in which this could happen, right? the 30 00:01:40.840 --> 00:01:44.320 borrower was like, awesome, thank you, right. And the lender 31 00:01:44.320 --> 00:01:47.200 feels good, the borrower is happy. It's like this, that's 32 00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:50.440 like they got to 2020 together. But what can happen is that the 33 00:01:50.440 --> 00:01:53.620 borrower is now on the hook to pay taxes on the 20 grand that 34 00:01:53.620 --> 00:01:57.040 was forgiven. They could literally, it's treated as 35 00:01:57.040 --> 00:01:59.020 income. Yeah. Now, this is something you would want to 36 00:01:59.020 --> 00:02:01.450 confer with an accountant on. And we actually put out a 37 00:02:01.450 --> 00:02:05.980 report, this is back in May of 2020. With a company called 38 00:02:05.980 --> 00:02:08.710 Grassi, and they're an accounting firm, based in New 39 00:02:08.710 --> 00:02:11.620 York, pretty large accounting firm. And they put together a 40 00:02:11.620 --> 00:02:15.190 report that basically outline Hey, this is an issue that you 41 00:02:15.190 --> 00:02:18.730 should be looking out for. If you forgave debt, or you had 42 00:02:18.730 --> 00:02:21.280 debt forgiven, you need to understand that there is a tax 43 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:23.860 implication, because if you're a lender, you can be thinking, 44 00:02:23.890 --> 00:02:26.860 well, how does this apply to me? Yeah, well, you might have to 45 00:02:26.860 --> 00:02:30.220 issue them like a 1099, or something of that nature. Right? 46 00:02:30.700 --> 00:02:33.370 You might have given them created income for them 47 00:02:33.490 --> 00:02:40.330 inadvertently. And so now it's tax season. And the corporation 48 00:02:40.330 --> 00:02:43.150 tax deadline is why it's less than a week away this point, and 49 00:02:43.150 --> 00:02:48.130 if the personal tax deadline is a month, or so away, right? And 50 00:02:48.280 --> 00:02:52.270 so we put up this report last year, may 2020. And when we were 51 00:02:52.270 --> 00:02:56.050 talking about tax implications for the year 2020, obviously, 52 00:02:56.050 --> 00:02:59.200 which wouldn't come until now, nobody cared. People were like, 53 00:02:59.200 --> 00:03:02.200 hey, let's just get through the year. Right. Like, alright, well 54 00:03:02.200 --> 00:03:04.450 worry about that when it happened. I mean, let's just 55 00:03:04.450 --> 00:03:07.600 focus on, you know, one thing at a time, and people were worried 56 00:03:07.600 --> 00:03:11.380 about PPP, they're worried about th e ideal, they were worried 57 00:03:11.380 --> 00:03:15.310 about survival. And even though we kind of helped spread the 58 00:03:15.310 --> 00:03:18.340 word about this lingering issue, we'll call it we call it a time 59 00:03:18.340 --> 00:03:22.150 bomb, because I think a lot of debts work forgiven in 2020. And 60 00:03:22.180 --> 00:03:25.150 now it is tax time, the time we thought would never happen. 61 00:03:25.780 --> 00:03:28.540 Yeah, it seemed like it was forever away. It's happened. 62 00:03:28.720 --> 00:03:31.570 It's here. And now when you're putting together your taxes, you 63 00:03:31.570 --> 00:03:35.410 might realize, oh, my goodness, I had all these debts forgiven. 64 00:03:35.590 --> 00:03:39.040 That's income now, right. Now, don't take it from me, because 65 00:03:39.040 --> 00:03:42.220 I'm not a CPA, but you should consult with an accountant, 66 00:03:42.220 --> 00:03:45.280 whether whether you were the lender or the borrower as to 67 00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:48.760 whether or not there are any implications or consequences for 68 00:03:48.760 --> 00:03:50.560 that agreement in 2020. 69 00:03:51.050 --> 00:03:52.400 Johny Fernandez: And I think another thing that's really 70 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:55.610 interesting is unemployment. Like that's something I've heard 71 00:03:55.610 --> 00:03:58.340 from different people and talking with my personal 72 00:03:58.340 --> 00:04:01.250 account, and like we had something we had a conversation. 73 00:04:01.250 --> 00:04:05.390 And I know, over the weekend, like the new bill was, is in the 74 00:04:05.390 --> 00:04:09.650 process, making the words that would forgive about $10,000, you 75 00:04:09.650 --> 00:04:12.860 know, forgive would be forgivable, and then you know, 76 00:04:12.860 --> 00:04:18.200 the rest, let's say, Have you ended up taking out or using or 77 00:04:18.890 --> 00:04:22.550 received about $20,000 of unemployment, which is fairly 78 00:04:22.550 --> 00:04:24.920 common, because half the country, you know, was pretty 79 00:04:24.920 --> 00:04:28.730 much unemployed. So $10,000 would be forgiven, and then you 80 00:04:28.730 --> 00:04:32.030 would only be taxed on half, you know, what you would get so if 81 00:04:32.030 --> 00:04:36.440 you had 20 you only taxed on 10. So it's the goal is for that to 82 00:04:36.440 --> 00:04:39.890 go ahead and help people you know, in this specific season, 83 00:04:39.890 --> 00:04:42.290 but again, that's not only for New York State, that's really 84 00:04:42.290 --> 00:04:44.330 country. That's what country from what my understanding is, 85 00:04:44.330 --> 00:04:47.720 but obviously, you know, consult with your accounting, because 86 00:04:47.870 --> 00:04:50.420 this is something like, you know, we've heard about we've 87 00:04:50.420 --> 00:04:52.670 read about when we're being in Florida, but it could be 88 00:04:52.670 --> 00:04:55.550 different state by state. So definitely, it's something that 89 00:04:55.790 --> 00:04:59.810 I would call your personal accountant to make sure because 90 00:04:59.840 --> 00:05:02.810 you You know, we don't know what every individual state, you 91 00:05:02.810 --> 00:05:05.720 know, could be doing. These should be handled differently. 92 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:08.090 But state by state. Yeah. So yeah, it's something really 93 00:05:08.090 --> 00:05:11.570 interesting, because like I said, I think it's, it'd be up 94 00:05:11.570 --> 00:05:13.730 to up to $10,000 to be forgiven. 95 00:05:13.810 --> 00:05:18.250 Sean Murray: Yeah, you know, I heard that a few states forgot 96 00:05:18.370 --> 00:05:23.770 to apply the withholding of taxes to unemployment. And if 97 00:05:23.770 --> 00:05:27.460 you weren't paying attention or not thinking about it, you may 98 00:05:27.460 --> 00:05:31.450 actually have to pay all the tax on your unemployment in a lump 99 00:05:31.450 --> 00:05:36.250 sum, next month, and I even heard this is coming from the 100 00:05:36.250 --> 00:05:39.730 news, right, that there were people who did elect to have 101 00:05:39.730 --> 00:05:44.320 withholding. Yeah. And it was forgotten by the by the 102 00:05:44.320 --> 00:05:47.710 unemployment, you know, agencies in whatever states that it was. 103 00:05:47.890 --> 00:05:50.080 And so you may have been under the impression, even if it 104 00:05:50.080 --> 00:05:52.420 didn't look like it on your report. Yeah. That it was coming 105 00:05:52.420 --> 00:05:56.230 out. Yeah. And, yeah, I think a lot of people are in this during 106 00:05:56.230 --> 00:05:58.930 the situation right now, where they're the tax bill coming up 107 00:05:58.960 --> 00:06:02.530 on their unemployment. Yeah. And there was a lot of hope in 2020, 108 00:06:02.560 --> 00:06:06.820 that, at the end, people will forgive everything. I think 109 00:06:06.820 --> 00:06:07.000 that's so 110 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:09.130 Johny Fernandez: funny. Because I think that's the mindset not 111 00:06:09.130 --> 00:06:12.820 only for taxes, but for rent and for your mortgage, that things 112 00:06:12.820 --> 00:06:16.630 are gonna be forgiven and life like, you know, life is gonna go 113 00:06:16.630 --> 00:06:20.470 on as normal. But I think the repercussions are now kind of 114 00:06:20.470 --> 00:06:23.080 creeping up on everyone, whether it's if you haven't paid your, 115 00:06:23.260 --> 00:06:26.650 your taxes, you know, your unemployment benefits, your 116 00:06:26.650 --> 00:06:30.640 stimulus check, your, you know, your rent, especially here in 117 00:06:30.640 --> 00:06:32.680 New York, like your mortgage, I know, people that they haven't 118 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:37.120 paid, you know, almost 10 off months of rent. But at the end 119 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:40.540 of the day, like, you know, these things are definitely, you 120 00:06:40.540 --> 00:06:42.010 know, someone's gonna get decent, we're gonna get their 121 00:06:42.010 --> 00:06:46.900 money regardless, I think that's, you know, the big lesson 122 00:06:46.900 --> 00:06:50.440 here is, yeah, you can't just, you know, pretend things don't 123 00:06:50.440 --> 00:06:50.950 exist. 124 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:53.790 Sean Murray: Well, yeah. So, so many people went in with the 125 00:06:53.820 --> 00:06:56.700 impression that at the end of the day, when this is all, you 126 00:06:56.700 --> 00:06:59.400 know, all cleared up, that everything was just going to be 127 00:06:59.430 --> 00:07:03.240 lost. No, wiped away, forgiven, people will be understanding. 128 00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:05.310 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think people are gonna 129 00:07:05.310 --> 00:07:07.170 be understanding because it's a hard year. 130 00:07:08.140 --> 00:07:11.560 Sean Murray: So, so far, what I've heard, and I think a lot of 131 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:14.770 it has to do with the deficits that the states and the federal 132 00:07:14.770 --> 00:07:18.670 governments have created as a result of everything they did. I 133 00:07:18.670 --> 00:07:22.030 have heard that they are not being very understanding, they 134 00:07:22.030 --> 00:07:26.590 are now desperate to get back every dollar that they believe 135 00:07:26.590 --> 00:07:30.520 that they're entitled to. And that whole, it was COVID. You 136 00:07:30.520 --> 00:07:33.670 know, forgive me type thing. All of a sudden, turns out, it's 137 00:07:33.670 --> 00:07:36.670 your old friend, the IRS, you know what I mean? Turns out it 138 00:07:36.670 --> 00:07:40.810 was just that all right. And if that's who are you hoping for? 139 00:07:40.990 --> 00:07:43.360 To be your friend to fix everything at the end that you 140 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:45.760 picked, you picked a terrible friend, right. 141 00:07:47.860 --> 00:07:50.680 Johny Fernandez: I think at the end of the day, we have to 142 00:07:50.680 --> 00:07:54.250 realize that this is the government, is the IRS. You 143 00:07:54.250 --> 00:07:57.070 know, you can't you can't just say hey, thanks. 144 00:07:57.190 --> 00:07:57.940 Sean Murray: It was COVID. 145 00:07:57.970 --> 00:07:59.980 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, like, does it matter? 146 00:08:00.050 --> 00:08:03.200 Sean Murray: Yeah. And that does work. It has worked with a lot 147 00:08:03.200 --> 00:08:06.470 of business to business type situations, business to 148 00:08:06.470 --> 00:08:10.610 consumer, it was COVID. But now that the government has, you 149 00:08:10.610 --> 00:08:13.550 know, just literally written blank checks, they're pretty 150 00:08:13.550 --> 00:08:15.470 keen to get their money back. And I think everyone's 151 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:18.440 everyone's just waking up to it now. Now, that is tax season. 152 00:08:18.440 --> 00:08:21.710 They're like, Okay, well, with everything get forgiven? And 153 00:08:21.710 --> 00:08:24.950 people are finding out right now that like, Oh, no, it's not. 154 00:08:24.980 --> 00:08:28.460 It's not forgiven. Yeah, maybe some, maybe some will be 155 00:08:28.880 --> 00:08:31.100 mentioned with unemployment. But it's a wake up call right now. 156 00:08:31.490 --> 00:08:33.500 Johny Fernandez: It's definitely a wake up call. And it. I think 157 00:08:33.500 --> 00:08:35.780 it's also we're seeing the impacts now that it happened 158 00:08:35.900 --> 00:08:39.500 last year, things are really like people's true colors. And 159 00:08:39.590 --> 00:08:42.950 just the reality of the damage that was done. You know, last 160 00:08:42.950 --> 00:08:46.910 year, we're starting to see the effects. I feel like, we still 161 00:08:46.910 --> 00:08:51.410 have yet to see more. But things are starting to pop up now. You 162 00:08:51.410 --> 00:08:56.510 said and it's tax seasons here. And the IRS is definitely, you 163 00:08:56.510 --> 00:08:58.160 know, they want their money. 164 00:08:58.160 --> 00:09:00.050 Sean Murray: They're gonna want the money. Yeah, that's how it's 165 00:09:00.050 --> 00:09:02.480 gonna work. Is the states are gonna do the same. Yeah, right. 166 00:09:02.900 --> 00:09:05.510 Everyone's gonna be held accountable. It seems like yeah, 167 00:09:05.540 --> 00:09:09.830 for everything. And the whole It was COVID thing. I don't I don't 168 00:09:09.830 --> 00:09:11.510 know. How much distance that's 169 00:09:11.510 --> 00:09:13.130 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, I think that that's gonna get it's 170 00:09:13.130 --> 00:09:15.650 getting old. Yeah, I mean, that's true. 171 00:09:15.780 --> 00:09:18.870 Sean Murray: Yeah. But that actually flows into a topic we 172 00:09:18.870 --> 00:09:24.030 talked a lot about, and that's PPP. And it's a good time to 173 00:09:24.030 --> 00:09:28.860 talk about it. Because March 31st, is the PPP deadline. Now, 174 00:09:28.860 --> 00:09:31.260 this is the second round of PPP. Or you can even call it the 175 00:09:31.260 --> 00:09:34.050 third. Because we had this initial round back, and I think 176 00:09:34.050 --> 00:09:37.320 it was March or April, the money ran out almost immediately, 177 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:40.590 right? And then they're like, Oh, we have to do another one. 178 00:09:40.620 --> 00:09:44.880 Right. So they did a little bit more. And then they just started 179 00:09:44.880 --> 00:09:47.640 doing around, I think back in January, the second round of the 180 00:09:47.640 --> 00:09:51.270 third round, whatever they're calling it, and it ends March 181 00:09:51.270 --> 00:09:54.330 31. But from what I've been told, that's not really the 182 00:09:54.330 --> 00:09:57.900 deadline for applying. That's the deadline for getting those 183 00:09:57.900 --> 00:10:00.300 applications approved by the SBA. 184 00:10:00.300 --> 00:10:02.730 Johny Fernandez: Yeah so let's clarify, if you wanted to apply 185 00:10:02.730 --> 00:10:05.520 on March the 31st, would you be able to apply? 186 00:10:06.470 --> 00:10:08.540 Sean Murray: So it's gonna be, it's gonna be a sort of a 187 00:10:09.680 --> 00:10:13.790 institution by institution type decision, if they believe they 188 00:10:13.790 --> 00:10:17.420 can get it approved right away, possibly. Okay. But the reason I 189 00:10:17.420 --> 00:10:20.450 bring this up now is because there are already banks that are 190 00:10:20.450 --> 00:10:23.660 no longer accepting applications, because they want 191 00:10:23.660 --> 00:10:26.840 to make sure that they button up the ones they've already taken, 192 00:10:26.900 --> 00:10:31.400 because we're about, I guess, you know, two, three weeks away 193 00:10:31.490 --> 00:10:34.310 from March 31st. Right. And these banks are like, well, 194 00:10:34.310 --> 00:10:36.920 let's make sure everyone's who's applied. Let's get them all 195 00:10:36.920 --> 00:10:39.590 approved. Yeah. And if they're, if they're processing all these 196 00:10:39.590 --> 00:10:42.590 new applications, imagine applying on March 10. Yeah, 197 00:10:42.650 --> 00:10:46.880 today, and your bank being so overloaded with applications 198 00:10:46.880 --> 00:10:49.760 only up to march 31, new ones, if they don't even get you 199 00:10:49.760 --> 00:10:54.320 approved by SBA. Imagine, right. So I've heard that some already. 200 00:10:54.770 --> 00:10:57.980 What do you do? Like what do you what do you do? So like, what do 201 00:10:57.980 --> 00:11:01.370 you do? And so if you're a business owner, I don't know how 202 00:11:01.370 --> 00:11:04.130 many business owners are watching this. But this is like 203 00:11:04.130 --> 00:11:06.350 kind of your last chance to apply for it if you wanted it. 204 00:11:07.010 --> 00:11:11.480 And from what I've heard that the the numbers of applications 205 00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:15.860 this time around is have kind of been underwhelming. Yeah. Some 206 00:11:15.860 --> 00:11:19.940 people are like, well, I already got PPP. And we kind of feel 207 00:11:19.940 --> 00:11:23.510 like suspicious. Yeah. of the second one that I get more 208 00:11:24.050 --> 00:11:27.530 money. Right. Yeah. And it kind of goes back to what we just 209 00:11:27.530 --> 00:11:30.860 talked about while it was COVID. Well, there was a lot of it was 210 00:11:30.860 --> 00:11:35.810 COVID type situation of a PPP, the original time, in that, it 211 00:11:35.810 --> 00:11:41.720 seems to me that a lot of people may have miss stated some of 212 00:11:41.720 --> 00:11:45.650 their details when applying for the original money, right? It's 213 00:11:45.650 --> 00:11:47.960 like, well, it's COVID. Yeah, right. No one's gonna check. 214 00:11:47.990 --> 00:11:51.410 Yeah, no, no, no, isn't check or there'll be understanding. And I 215 00:11:51.410 --> 00:11:53.780 think what the news has been telling us is that people are 216 00:11:53.780 --> 00:11:57.320 getting indicted, people are getting arrested, right. And the 217 00:11:57.320 --> 00:11:59.450 authorities are making an example out of the wrongdoers. 218 00:12:00.050 --> 00:12:03.020 And so if you've fudged anything in the first time, you're 219 00:12:03.020 --> 00:12:05.630 probably gonna stay away from the second one. You're like, I 220 00:12:05.630 --> 00:12:08.120 don't, I don't want that to happen to me. I don't even want 221 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:09.260 them to find out what I did the first time. 222 00:12:09.299 --> 00:12:12.329 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. And the reality is, it's it's that the 223 00:12:12.329 --> 00:12:16.529 authorities and the people, you know, they're laying down the 224 00:12:16.529 --> 00:12:19.679 law. They're taking all this, like, they're not forgetting 225 00:12:19.679 --> 00:12:21.569 them. And I think that's the hope that a lot of people had a 226 00:12:21.569 --> 00:12:25.409 lot of business owners that, oh, because it's COVID, you know, 227 00:12:25.409 --> 00:12:27.899 they're not going to come after us. Same thing with taxes, 228 00:12:27.929 --> 00:12:31.379 they're not going to come after us. But the reality is, they are 229 00:12:31.709 --> 00:12:35.879 buckling down on all these things. And it's a government at 230 00:12:35.879 --> 00:12:38.699 the end of the day, it's a government, so you can't really 231 00:12:39.539 --> 00:12:44.069 do much or like try to be a smooth guy cuz the government, 232 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:46.259 they're gonna find out eventually. 233 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:48.870 Sean Murray: Yeah. And even if you didn't take the first round, 234 00:12:48.870 --> 00:12:51.150 I think people are looking at what happened to some of the 235 00:12:51.150 --> 00:12:54.270 people that, you know, weren't as honest. In the first one. 236 00:12:54.270 --> 00:12:56.160 They're like, I'm not going to take the risk. Yeah, they're 237 00:12:56.160 --> 00:12:58.140 worried that even if they do everything, honestly, and this 238 00:12:58.140 --> 00:13:00.060 is I'm talking anecdotally. Yeah, I don't I don't I don't 239 00:13:00.060 --> 00:13:03.990 have a chart to pull up. Yeah, this many people, you know, 240 00:13:03.990 --> 00:13:10.890 because. But there are people who I who are worried that even 241 00:13:10.890 --> 00:13:13.500 if they do everything, honestly, that they run the risk of 242 00:13:13.500 --> 00:13:16.320 getting in trouble. There was a lot of people who don't trust 243 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:18.720 the government in general, I know people who didn't take any 244 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:21.690 PPP, who probably would have qualified, because they were 245 00:13:21.690 --> 00:13:24.900 worried the government was going to do something to them before 246 00:13:24.900 --> 00:13:27.120 having taken it. You know, there's, you know, there's no 247 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:29.370 such thing as free money. Yeah, that's what that's what they 248 00:13:29.370 --> 00:13:32.700 say, this is got their radar all the way up. You have and when 249 00:13:32.700 --> 00:13:34.800 they read about indictments and arrests and the coming after you 250 00:13:34.800 --> 00:13:37.500 and all that stuff, they're like, I'm not I'm staying far 251 00:13:37.500 --> 00:13:38.580 away from that. Yeah, right. 252 00:13:39.260 --> 00:13:41.480 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, no, it's interesting. It's interesting. I 253 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:46.910 think that leads up to the next topic is Sean, you know very 254 00:13:46.910 --> 00:13:51.050 well about this topic, the broker lifestyle. So obviously, 255 00:13:51.140 --> 00:13:53.420 let's talk a little bit about that. I mean, that's something 256 00:13:53.420 --> 00:13:56.360 that, you know, it's a conversation we've had with 257 00:13:56.360 --> 00:13:59.210 different people just about the lifestyle and just like the 258 00:13:59.210 --> 00:14:05.510 expectations, so after a year, like 2020, what could someone 259 00:14:05.510 --> 00:14:08.480 expect regarding the broker lifestyle, if someone just 260 00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:11.720 either starting off now, yeah, or someone that's been in the 261 00:14:11.780 --> 00:14:15.170 industry in the business, and I guess, what are you seeing? What 262 00:14:15.170 --> 00:14:18.680 are you hearing? And what are people's expectations versus 263 00:14:18.680 --> 00:14:19.340 reality? 264 00:14:19.380 --> 00:14:22.770 Sean Murray: Yeah. Well, I, you know, first on the broker end of 265 00:14:22.770 --> 00:14:28.590 things is that I think people got some, well, they got hurt, 266 00:14:28.680 --> 00:14:32.940 or they benefited from PPP. One of the two, if you were a broker 267 00:14:32.940 --> 00:14:36.540 who had a relationship with a PPP lender, is a possibility 268 00:14:36.540 --> 00:14:41.130 that the whole PPP era of 2020 was good for you, because you 269 00:14:41.130 --> 00:14:44.220 were able to make a lot of commission off of that, but 270 00:14:44.460 --> 00:14:49.650 also, at the same time, have the ability to offer non PPP 271 00:14:49.650 --> 00:14:53.790 products. The demand might not have been there, because PPP was 272 00:14:53.790 --> 00:14:56.940 available. So that was bad for brokers, because the products 273 00:14:56.940 --> 00:14:59.190 that would normally sell all of a sudden don't look at the 274 00:14:59.190 --> 00:15:02.850 attractive Because the other option on the table was 275 00:15:02.850 --> 00:15:05.610 essentially free government money. Yeah, or this ideal 276 00:15:05.610 --> 00:15:10.200 program, which was like 30% 30 year loan at, like 1% interest? 277 00:15:10.230 --> 00:15:13.200 Yeah. And so it was an interesting year for brokers. 278 00:15:13.770 --> 00:15:19.290 And some brokers dropped out of the business. Right. And it's my 279 00:15:19.290 --> 00:15:22.560 prediction that they're going to come back. Okay. And the reason 280 00:15:22.560 --> 00:15:26.640 I say that is because this industry, the small, the non 281 00:15:26.640 --> 00:15:30.960 bank, small business finance industry, has, has this way of 282 00:15:30.990 --> 00:15:34.560 keeping people in its orbit. Yeah, it's like you can never 283 00:15:34.560 --> 00:15:37.950 leave. Yeah, right. I know very few people that I've ever left 284 00:15:37.950 --> 00:15:40.290 the business for good. It's kind of like one of those things 285 00:15:40.290 --> 00:15:45.630 where you kind of get sucked into the system? Yeah. I think 286 00:15:45.630 --> 00:15:50.640 on the one hand, because a lot of it is a commission driven 287 00:15:50.640 --> 00:15:53.910 opportunity. And there's a lot of entrepreneurial type people 288 00:15:53.940 --> 00:15:59.940 who work in it. in sales, right? Yeah. And the ability to reap 289 00:15:59.940 --> 00:16:04.230 the rewards of the work you put in Yeah, is attractive to a lot 290 00:16:04.230 --> 00:16:06.060 of different people. Not everyone wants to make the 291 00:16:06.060 --> 00:16:09.420 salary. There are people who would rather have, you know, 292 00:16:09.420 --> 00:16:12.930 really good months, really low months, and feel that that 293 00:16:12.930 --> 00:16:16.740 number reflected their abilities. Yeah. Right. I know a 294 00:16:16.740 --> 00:16:20.700 lot of people like that. And, you know, that's, that's 295 00:16:20.700 --> 00:16:22.740 awesome. Because you could be a broker who could potentially, if 296 00:16:22.740 --> 00:16:25.770 you have that mindset, you could make, you know, well, well into 297 00:16:25.770 --> 00:16:28.680 the six figures. Yeah, versus if you're on the other side of the 298 00:16:28.680 --> 00:16:32.400 business, maybe maybe not as high. But the reason I say a lot 299 00:16:32.400 --> 00:16:35.310 of people are gonna come back, is because, you know, obviously, 300 00:16:35.340 --> 00:16:39.180 obviously, everyone seems to be drawn, you know, drawn to it, 301 00:16:39.630 --> 00:16:42.060 you can never leave. And I 302 00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:44.820 Johny Fernandez: And I think the reason why a lot of people are 303 00:16:44.820 --> 00:16:48.210 drawn to it, because I think 2020 showed a lot of people that 304 00:16:48.510 --> 00:16:52.560 if you stay with a normal job, you have no control over what 305 00:16:52.560 --> 00:16:56.970 can happen. And based, you know, on a sales commission job, or, 306 00:16:56.970 --> 00:16:59.940 you know, very entrepreneurial spirit, people that have that, 307 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:03.630 you know, they kind of realize, wait a minute, instead of 308 00:17:03.630 --> 00:17:06.450 working for someone, I can just kind of do my own thing, you 309 00:17:06.450 --> 00:17:11.760 know, build my own business, and then, you know, not be like a 310 00:17:11.760 --> 00:17:13.950 regular person working a regular job. 311 00:17:13.990 --> 00:17:15.820 Sean Murray: Yeah, well, the other side of that is, you know, 312 00:17:15.820 --> 00:17:19.570 regular person, regular job is that you can end up that person 313 00:17:20.140 --> 00:17:25.000 in sales than in in a commission driven business. By virtue of 314 00:17:25.120 --> 00:17:29.200 always doing the same thing. You can end up what you thought you 315 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:34.030 were trying to avoid. Yeah. And I have spoken to people. Now, 316 00:17:34.090 --> 00:17:37.090 maybe not like, really recently, but over the course of my, you 317 00:17:37.090 --> 00:17:41.050 know, career in this industry, people who said that, that could 318 00:17:41.050 --> 00:17:43.750 have been me that done this. Oh, I could have done that. When I 319 00:17:43.750 --> 00:17:46.210 was younger. Yeah, I could have done that before I was married. 320 00:17:46.390 --> 00:17:49.810 And now it's too late. I hear a lot. It's now it's honestly now 321 00:17:49.810 --> 00:17:53.110 it's too late. Yeah, type things. Yeah. And I feel bad 322 00:17:53.110 --> 00:17:56.650 sometimes. And you know, I don't think it's ever too late. First 323 00:17:56.650 --> 00:17:59.740 of all, it's never too late. Those who are like, who are out 324 00:17:59.740 --> 00:18:03.760 there being like, it's too late, you know, I have a family to 325 00:18:03.760 --> 00:18:07.390 support. I can't do anything. You know, I missed my chance. 326 00:18:07.420 --> 00:18:10.480 That's the wrong mindset. Yeah, there's always a way. You know, 327 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:12.370 like, you're like, well, I already I already only get five 328 00:18:12.370 --> 00:18:15.190 hours of sleep. But what happens if you could maybe try getting 329 00:18:15.190 --> 00:18:18.310 three hours of sleep? It could be really painful. Yeah. But you 330 00:18:18.310 --> 00:18:20.950 know, don't afraid to be bold. Like, if you're, if you're, if 331 00:18:20.950 --> 00:18:23.470 you're if you're writing off the opportunity from from the 332 00:18:23.500 --> 00:18:25.990 outset, you're just gonna have this regret, I see a lot of 333 00:18:25.990 --> 00:18:30.550 regret. Yeah. And I think people need to ask themselves, 334 00:18:30.550 --> 00:18:34.090 especially after the after this whole pandemic, is where do you 335 00:18:34.090 --> 00:18:37.510 want to be? With what you're doing. Yeah. Right. Because if 336 00:18:37.510 --> 00:18:40.570 you're, if you're a sales driven person, you're a commission 337 00:18:40.570 --> 00:18:43.960 driven person. And that's, that's your motivation to 338 00:18:43.960 --> 00:18:49.270 succeed, then you are probably also the person who can think 339 00:18:49.330 --> 00:18:52.900 beyond that, possibly even more than someone who is content to 340 00:18:52.900 --> 00:18:56.560 take a salary. Yeah. And you should start to think about, 341 00:18:56.830 --> 00:19:00.610 what do I need to do to avoid being the person who has regret? 342 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:03.850 Yeah, because the things are going to change? Yeah, a lot 343 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:06.340 Johny Fernandez: And I think we've seen we saw clearly last 344 00:19:06.340 --> 00:19:09.970 year, everything changed. And it's just going to continue to 345 00:19:09.970 --> 00:19:11.140 change. And that's life. 346 00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:14.450 Sean Murray: Yeah. And exactly, things are just gonna continue 347 00:19:14.450 --> 00:19:18.200 to change. And, you know, when I first kind of stumbled upon this 348 00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:21.620 industry, 15 some odd years ago, people were still submitting 349 00:19:21.620 --> 00:19:26.120 applications by fax machine. Right. And it's changed a lot 350 00:19:26.150 --> 00:19:30.620 since then. Right? You don't want to let tech now I mean, 351 00:19:30.860 --> 00:19:33.620 this is kind of like, set all the time. Yeah. But you don't 352 00:19:33.620 --> 00:19:37.850 want to let technology kind of erode your success yet, right? 353 00:19:37.850 --> 00:19:40.310 where you're like, I'm just gonna keep doing the same thing. 354 00:19:40.610 --> 00:19:43.940 It'll build up my business little by little by little, and 355 00:19:43.940 --> 00:19:46.400 then all of a sudden, the killer app comes in and just throws the 356 00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:49.880 whole thing. You know, you know, it just ruins the whole thing. 357 00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:54.740 And you're like, Ah, that was unfortunate. Yeah. And then you 358 00:19:54.740 --> 00:19:57.620 know, and it's the young, the new young, 20 year old. Yeah. 359 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:01.010 And you start telling you know, I couldn't Yeah, I could have 360 00:20:01.010 --> 00:20:04.010 done could have done. Yeah, this could have been that. And it's 361 00:20:04.010 --> 00:20:06.080 just, you know this, you don't want to be one of those people 362 00:20:06.110 --> 00:20:10.940 with regret. So the broker lifestyle doesn't just have to 363 00:20:10.940 --> 00:20:14.810 be, I'm going to do this for the next 50 years of my life. Yeah, 364 00:20:14.900 --> 00:20:18.380 if that's what you want to do awesome, but I don't think it's 365 00:20:18.380 --> 00:20:20.480 going to be the same for 15 years. That's part of the 366 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:25.310 problem, right? And you need to take the time to do something 367 00:20:25.310 --> 00:20:29.000 bold and big. While you're hustling out there, right? If 368 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:31.400 you're already the person that's, that's a sales oriented, 369 00:20:31.730 --> 00:20:34.910 commission driven, then you definitely have the potential to 370 00:20:34.910 --> 00:20:36.650 do something big and bold, you're already doing something 371 00:20:36.650 --> 00:20:39.230 big and bold, not having a salary, and just kind of like 372 00:20:39.230 --> 00:20:43.070 winging it, you know, like, hoping to make money just based 373 00:20:43.070 --> 00:20:44.870 upon what you do. You know, you're already you already 374 00:20:44.870 --> 00:20:50.420 taking risk. And don't be afraid to do one more big thing. And 375 00:20:50.450 --> 00:20:53.270 you don't want to be that person in 20 years to now be like, Ah, 376 00:20:53.330 --> 00:20:57.200 yeah, I could. I'm just telling you. So as far as the broker 377 00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:04.910 lifestyle goes, look at it as levels of advancement. The 378 00:21:04.910 --> 00:21:08.180 lifestyle should be not just I made a little bit more 379 00:21:08.180 --> 00:21:09.800 commission, I made a little bit more commission, I made a little 380 00:21:09.800 --> 00:21:13.460 bit more commission, it should be, you know, I was here. And 381 00:21:13.460 --> 00:21:17.570 now possibly, I have a team now I had my own shop. And now now I 382 00:21:17.570 --> 00:21:21.530 got the tech. And this is just a, you know, yeah, just grow. 383 00:21:21.530 --> 00:21:25.010 Yeah, you know what I mean? But start to think in increments of 384 00:21:25.010 --> 00:21:27.590 where you want to go, not just how much cow Can I get another 385 00:21:27.590 --> 00:21:31.220 customer this month, but really, really think even bigger? There 386 00:21:31.220 --> 00:21:34.520 are people now who are worth hundreds of millions of dollars, 387 00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:40.280 who I saw, were just regular sales guys, sales women in the 388 00:21:40.280 --> 00:21:44.240 beginning 10-15 years ago. Yeah. And they just took a few bold 389 00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:47.930 moves beyond the bold stuff they already did and now they're 390 00:21:47.930 --> 00:21:50.510 rich. And you know what? I'm sure they have some regrets in 391 00:21:50.510 --> 00:21:53.540 life, but not taking the chance to become a mega millionaire 392 00:21:53.570 --> 00:21:56.360 wasn't one of them. Yeah, I mean, so don't be afraid to be 393 00:21:56.360 --> 00:21:57.410 bold. Yeah. 394 00:21:57.470 --> 00:21:59.810 Johny Fernandez: Great advice. Thanks, Sean. Thanks for 395 00:21:59.810 --> 00:22:05.540 calling. Motivational speaker. No, that's right. And I agree 396 00:22:05.540 --> 00:22:07.670 with you. I think people at the end of the day have to just take 397 00:22:07.760 --> 00:22:11.660 be bold and take a risk. So that's what it's about. Okay. 398 00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:14.240 All right. Well, that's it for us today. So obviously, we'll 399 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:17.720 see you guys next time here on deBanked. News Live. I'm Johnny 400 00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:18.320 Fernandez. 401 00:22:18.750 --> 00:22:19.440 Sean Murray: I'm Sean Murray 402 00:22:19.500 --> 00:22:20.520 Johny Fernandez: See you guys next time.