00:00.780 --> 00:05.100 Tal Schwartz: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to 00:05.880 --> 00:10.080 Canadian lenders Association events on how to build a 00:10.080 --> 00:15.840 resilience collection strategy. Before we get started, we want 00:15.840 --> 00:21.540 to thank our sponsor LEC stop for supporting events and 00:21.540 --> 00:27.150 supporting FinTech lenders in Canada, and fintech lending 00:27.150 --> 00:30.570 innovation in Canada. A few quick notes before we get 00:30.570 --> 00:33.780 started, if you don't already know, the Canadian lenders 00:33.780 --> 00:39.810 association is the largest trade group for commercial and 00:40.560 --> 00:44.970 consumer lending in the country, we have almost 100 members from 00:44.970 --> 00:50.880 coast to coast. We run events like this fairly often about 00:50.880 --> 00:55.800 once a month. So if you're interested in joining us for 00:55.800 --> 01:00.810 another webinar, or sponsoring or participating, please go to 01:00.840 --> 01:05.580 lenders events.com. And at the end of the session, we'll be 01:05.580 --> 01:09.360 sending out a recording. So if you missed parts, don't worry. 01:09.960 --> 01:13.410 And with that, I'm going to hand things over to your moderator, 01:13.440 --> 01:17.730 James. To get you started. 01:18.110 --> 01:21.740 James Rose: Very good, thanks Tal. And thanks also to the 01:21.740 --> 01:24.710 Canadian Lenders Association for every challenge and opportunity 01:24.710 --> 01:28.400 to moderate them. Looking forward to today's discussion. 01:28.400 --> 01:32.390 We have a excellent panel of everybody from Montreal, 01:32.390 --> 01:36.440 Toronto, Mississauga out to Vancouver, and here in gloomy 01:36.440 --> 01:40.250 Saskatchewan right now. So welcome. I just want to first 01:40.250 --> 01:42.590 take a few moments, just introduce our panelists, and 01:42.590 --> 01:49.220 we'll get right into it. There is an opportunity for feedback 01:49.220 --> 01:55.730 ready. Everybody can just put their goggles with the speakers 01:55.730 --> 01:58.070 to just on mute, and then we'll that way we don't get the 01:58.070 --> 02:02.870 feedback and our ears will all be fine. So yeah, I just wanted 02:02.870 --> 02:07.160 to introduce some of our panelists, and just wanted to 02:07.160 --> 02:11.090 give them thanks. And we'll start with a mirror test Karimi 02:11.120 --> 02:16.850 from Lexol responses for today. Amir is the CEO and co founder 02:16.850 --> 02:20.330 of Lexol, which is a fast growing fintech startup that's 02:20.450 --> 02:23.690 leading a change within collections industry and 02:23.750 --> 02:29.240 impacting 1000s daily. Prior to that Emir practice banking and 02:29.240 --> 02:33.530 IT law for many firms such as IMK, BCF, and hidden Blakely, 02:33.740 --> 02:37.460 and then with the National Bank of Canada. And he's published 02:37.460 --> 02:40.700 author and has contributed to the doing business report 02:40.940 --> 02:45.740 presented by the World Bank Group, and Amir joins us, I 02:45.740 --> 02:51.680 assume from Montreal. Then next we'll next panelist we have 02:51.830 --> 02:56.480 Brian Simone, I think I got that right, just in terms of 02:56.480 --> 03:01.430 translation. And Brian is the President candidacy Financial 03:01.430 --> 03:05.030 Group, which is a leading full service partner and provider of 03:05.030 --> 03:09.290 purchasing and serving solutions for institutions. Managing 03:09.320 --> 03:13.940 receivables in Canada, Canada seed works directly with 03:13.940 --> 03:17.150 institutions to provide efficient access to capital and 03:17.150 --> 03:19.790 proving operational expense structure and utilizing 03:19.790 --> 03:23.750 technology enabled operations, providing businesses with 03:23.750 --> 03:27.530 flexibility across the credit spectrum to acquire all segments 03:27.560 --> 03:32.930 in the consumer receivables market. And then, next, bright 03:32.930 --> 03:38.660 and early out in Vancouver is Nathan Slee, and he is the CEO 03:38.660 --> 03:42.530 of progressive which is one of Canada's fastest growing 03:42.620 --> 03:46.550 financial technology lenders focus on changing the way 03:46.550 --> 03:49.880 paycheck to paycheck, Canadians access and build credit. 03:50.390 --> 03:54.320 Progressive prides itself in being a socially responsible 03:54.320 --> 03:58.280 consumer finance company, whilst empowering collection agencies 03:58.280 --> 04:01.760 and enterprises to offer proactive solutions and drive 04:02.060 --> 04:05.300 healthy recoveries while protecting brand reputation with 04:05.300 --> 04:10.190 industry leading, and SPS and servicing. And progressive was 04:10.190 --> 04:15.890 also one of the sponsors of 2019 Canadian lenders Summit. And 04:15.890 --> 04:20.660 then last but not least, we have Clint no Santa, and we want to 04:20.660 --> 04:23.720 give a big shout out to Clinton. Just actually found out this 04:23.720 --> 04:26.090 morning. One of our other panelists, unfortunately, 04:26.090 --> 04:29.840 couldn't make it. Robert and Zini and I did have a write up 04:29.840 --> 04:33.800 for him, so won't have as much to say. But I do want to thank 04:33.950 --> 04:38.360 you for joining us. He is VP operations over at LM credit, 04:38.690 --> 04:43.490 which is the sister company of LM financial and it's a loan 04:43.490 --> 04:46.790 company specializing in that elevating credit and he's 04:46.820 --> 04:51.050 joining us from Mississauga. So just prior to the introductions, 04:51.050 --> 04:54.530 I did want to mention, we are encouraging and open dialogue 04:54.590 --> 04:57.320 and questions. Um, you'll see just in the bottom of your 04:57.320 --> 05:02.960 screen, there's two little bubbles just q&a, we were going 05:02.960 --> 05:06.740 to offer an opportunity for questions at the end. But just 05:06.740 --> 05:09.500 in terms of the format, I think could actually be a lot better 05:09.500 --> 05:12.950 if there's any particular item that some of our panelists are 05:12.950 --> 05:15.560 talking to, or any burning questions, we'll just answer 05:15.560 --> 05:19.520 them live, enter them in, I'll read them out, and then just 05:19.550 --> 05:28.580 leave it to the panel to discuss. So, yeah, the topic of 05:28.580 --> 05:32.900 today's conversation is how to build a resilient collection 05:32.900 --> 05:37.760 strategy. And that's in the backdrop of COVID, the winner of 05:37.760 --> 05:44.750 the deepest recessions since the 1920s. And so many fintechs have 05:44.750 --> 05:47.900 raised massive amounts of capital, within that last 05:47.900 --> 05:51.920 quarter to potentially fill this need, there's been obviously a 05:51.920 --> 05:55.370 lot of nervousness, there's been a lot of surprises, and I just 05:55.370 --> 05:59.150 wrote this, you know, we want to talk about just some of the 05:59.150 --> 06:03.440 experiences that we've had, learning by doing, and learning 06:03.440 --> 06:07.160 in the current environment and, you know, crops up predictions 06:07.160 --> 06:11.420 off, you know, for the future in order to ensure that we can 06:11.420 --> 06:15.980 actually have, you know, a resilient collection strategy. 06:16.580 --> 06:25.130 So just kind of want to then open up to the panel, just 06:25.130 --> 06:29.060 talking about some preps, insights, and how we can 06:29.060 --> 06:32.240 actually see that you know, what we need to do to send the 06:32.270 --> 06:39.860 current environment, and how to, well just build a resilient 06:39.890 --> 06:42.200 collection strategy. 06:43.770 --> 06:49.650 For example, just dealing with multi channel that capability, 06:50.220 --> 06:52.440 you know, what is sort of changed in the current 06:52.440 --> 06:56.430 environment, or that we need to kind of focus in, you know, just 06:56.430 --> 06:59.370 in terms of building and maintaining an efficient 06:59.370 --> 07:05.190 collectors collection strategy on that front. And maybe I'll 07:05.190 --> 07:08.700 just open up to Brian, maybe to start off with that. 07:10.080 --> 07:12.030 Bryan Szemenyei: Thanks, James, first of all, thank you for 07:12.030 --> 07:14.730 moderating. And thanks for everybody for for joining today, 07:15.270 --> 07:17.670 I'll start with a little bit of level setting, which is, you 07:17.670 --> 07:20.730 know, emphasizing something that everybody already knows. But it 07:20.730 --> 07:22.800 which is that we're sort of in an environment that is 07:22.800 --> 07:25.680 completely unprecedented, not just in Canada, but sort of 07:25.680 --> 07:29.610 around the globe as far as what the economic conditions are. And 07:29.610 --> 07:33.060 if you took us back to the middle of March, you know, in a 07:33.060 --> 07:36.150 time period, where it just looked like the world was, was 07:36.150 --> 07:40.590 on fire, sort of and getting worse during that period, there 07:40.590 --> 07:43.200 was a lot of fear that was going on as to what it was the the 07:43.200 --> 07:45.720 coming year was going to look like and I'm sure everybody went 07:45.720 --> 07:48.660 through their own heart palpitations at that point in 07:48.660 --> 07:51.870 time. But within our business, we were kind of looking into the 07:51.870 --> 07:54.840 future and saying, We had to completely throw at the book as 07:54.840 --> 07:58.020 to what it was that we think we thought we could forecast at 07:58.020 --> 08:01.680 that stage. We just didn't know what was gonna happen. And as a 08:01.680 --> 08:04.890 result, we were taking some pretty, pretty draconian views 08:05.130 --> 08:07.920 as to what the recovery landscape was going to look like 08:07.920 --> 08:10.800 in Canada were everything, as far as you know, runs on the 08:10.800 --> 08:14.070 bank were being contemplated at that point in time. So, you 08:14.070 --> 08:17.520 know, fast forward over the next six months, and it represented 08:17.520 --> 08:21.600 sort of a sort of completely counterintuitive result from 08:21.600 --> 08:23.910 what you would have expected, you know, you have massive 08:23.910 --> 08:28.500 unemployment spikes you have, you know, GDP drops like crazy, 08:28.500 --> 08:32.160 but at the same time delinquency rates have been down loss rates 08:32.160 --> 08:33.810 have been down, I'm sure everybody's seeing it in their 08:33.810 --> 08:37.950 own portfolios. And in the recovery, world, recovery rates 08:37.950 --> 08:42.270 have been up dramatically. So it turns out that injecting in, you 08:42.270 --> 08:45.870 know, a third of a trillion dollars into the economy does 08:45.870 --> 08:49.140 something and it did, you know, quite a bit during that period 08:49.140 --> 08:52.590 of time. So it's been a lot of sort of learning as you're doing 08:52.590 --> 08:55.830 even within that recovery space. But if I was to sort of step 08:55.830 --> 08:59.610 back and say, Well, what where do we stand today, the general 08:59.640 --> 09:03.090 consensus is that there is a coming wave that everybody's 09:03.090 --> 09:06.570 gonna experience be it losses, delinquencies, but also impacts 09:06.570 --> 09:10.320 on recovery rates within the the Receivables Management space. 09:10.530 --> 09:13.740 And when that comes is a little bit speculative. I mean, there's 09:13.740 --> 09:17.730 different different views. I think other members of panel I 09:17.790 --> 09:20.250 interest be interested in their thoughts as well. But the 09:20.250 --> 09:23.280 general view is that at the end of this year, kind of beginning 09:23.280 --> 09:27.210 of next year, there will be that wave of of delinquencies and 09:27.210 --> 09:30.270 defaults that are sort of coming into the space. So I would sort 09:30.270 --> 09:33.000 of say to your question, James, what do you need to do to try 09:33.000 --> 09:36.000 and prepare for that? Well, there's a kind of a set of 09:36.030 --> 09:39.600 things that I think all lenders whether they're small or large, 09:39.600 --> 09:43.710 or specialty, or monoline lenders or sort of multiproduct 09:43.710 --> 09:46.980 lenders should be doing in order to try and prepare for that wave 09:46.980 --> 09:50.430 of activities. And we'll try and touch on some of those today. 09:50.610 --> 09:53.130 The first one is you kind of mentioned there's just on his 09:53.130 --> 09:55.830 channel management. I think Amir can probably talk about this one 09:55.830 --> 09:59.160 pretty expertly as well and that you need to kind of evaluate 09:59.160 --> 10:01.620 what it is how you're relationship with your customer 10:01.620 --> 10:05.970 has changed and what's changed in their life because for the 10:05.970 --> 10:08.100 longest time, you've been dealing with people and very low 10:08.100 --> 10:12.810 touch, low friction. Somewhat passive means you don't want to 10:12.810 --> 10:16.740 be constantly speaking with somebody every day or every week 10:16.740 --> 10:19.650 or every, every month even, you just want to make sure that 10:19.650 --> 10:21.960 you've got, you know, a frictionless payment structure 10:21.960 --> 10:24.930 in place, that relationship is different. Now, this person is 10:24.930 --> 10:28.230 no longer somebody who you are trying to build a relationship 10:28.230 --> 10:31.020 with that will, you know, that you will be able to extend 10:31.020 --> 10:33.390 additional credit for, you're now trying to build a 10:33.390 --> 10:36.900 relationship with this person where you get top of pile as far 10:36.900 --> 10:40.050 as new payments are concerned. So as they've got sort of a 10:40.050 --> 10:43.980 fixed amount of cash capital that they can utilize to satisfy 10:43.980 --> 10:48.180 their obligations, your goal should be to be the first person 10:48.180 --> 10:50.700 on the list. And that means having kind of multiple 10:50.700 --> 10:53.580 strategies and multiple channels that you can deal with that 10:53.580 --> 10:57.180 person on in order to try and communicate what it is that that 10:57.180 --> 11:00.000 their options are for for repayment. And it's a it's a 11:00.000 --> 11:02.520 firm message, but it is definitely a fair message as 11:02.520 --> 11:04.980 well. So I'd be interested in some other it's sort of a long 11:04.980 --> 11:08.220 winded answer, but interested in some other perspectives as well. 11:10.140 --> 11:13.410 Amir Tajkariml: Yeah, well, is that okay with making James, 11:13.410 --> 11:18.240 I'll go add a few points there. I agree. I mean, federal aid was 11:18.240 --> 11:21.900 great collection went higher. But one thing is for sure, 11:21.900 --> 11:25.410 there's going to be a massive backlog of receivables that are 11:25.410 --> 11:28.500 going to be out there very soon, post towards by the end of 11:28.620 --> 11:32.940 winter, and to be able to collect on those traditional 11:32.940 --> 11:36.510 channels won't work anymore. I mean, we recently conducted a 11:36.510 --> 11:41.400 survey right at the beginning of COVID, Alexa work with over 3000 11:41.400 --> 11:44.130 Canadians just to understand what they're expecting, what 11:44.130 --> 11:47.520 they're getting, what they want, what they want, versus what 11:47.520 --> 11:51.630 they're getting. And the results were fascinating because people 11:51.630 --> 11:54.060 don't like to answer phone calls anymore. We don't answer phone 11:54.060 --> 11:57.420 calls anymore. We don't pay attention to letter mail that 11:57.420 --> 12:01.020 sent that home, we just keep it and forget it. So now it's just 12:01.170 --> 12:04.050 one of the most important factors of collection is getting 12:04.050 --> 12:06.900 the person's attention, right? It's the rule number one, get 12:06.900 --> 12:09.000 the person's attention. If that doesn't work, you'll never 12:09.000 --> 12:11.760 collect. And that's going through digital channels, 12:11.760 --> 12:14.790 whether it's email, whether it's SMS, the channel that converts 12:14.790 --> 12:17.730 the better. And then the second thing about channel is it's 12:17.730 --> 12:20.190 about templating, what's the message you're sending, if 12:20.190 --> 12:22.890 you're sending the same message to everyone from 30 days to 90 12:22.890 --> 12:26.070 days, we have a huge problem there. Because they don't engage 12:26.070 --> 12:29.550 with that template with that wording, as well as other 12:29.550 --> 12:35.670 people. So these are in terms of channels, digital contact 12:35.670 --> 12:38.310 methods is absolutely important. It's number one factor that came 12:38.310 --> 12:40.890 out. And then the second one is once you've caught their 12:40.890 --> 12:45.060 attention, what's next you have to convert them right. And 12:45.090 --> 12:50.250 especially during a season period, wherever it's going to 12:50.250 --> 12:53.670 be have a lot of past due accounts past the receivables 12:53.670 --> 12:56.760 out there, you want to be able to offer them a flexible payment 12:56.760 --> 13:00.060 options. That's the number one number two reason they came out. 13:00.900 --> 13:04.020 And it's extremely important in weather. So rule number one, you 13:04.020 --> 13:06.690 put in some digital channels. And then number two, you convert 13:06.690 --> 13:10.920 them with flexibility. That is what we are focused on it with 13:10.950 --> 13:15.660 Alexa is to offer technology that can automate that because 13:15.660 --> 13:19.050 at the end of the day, one other important thing is that you may 13:19.050 --> 13:22.860 have enough manpower to handle your current collection, the 13:22.890 --> 13:27.120 early delinquencies or, or or a portion of those recipients do 13:27.120 --> 13:30.240 receivables. But you won't be able to do the to handle all the 13:30.240 --> 13:35.910 backlog. So automation will be key to helping or establishing a 13:35.910 --> 13:39.780 resilient collection strategy. I'll stop there no looking get 13:39.780 --> 13:42.090 back to other. Yeah. 13:43.530 --> 13:45.450 Nathan Slee: Great and great comments, guys. And I'll kind of 13:45.450 --> 13:49.470 echo you know, I'll echo a lot of that. I mean, certainly 13:49.470 --> 13:52.380 echoing Brian's sentiment, I think everyone felt this with 13:52.950 --> 13:56.550 bigger description, Brian of COVID, kind of, you know, start 13:56.550 --> 13:59.790 to now is, you know, I think a lot of boardrooms, were having a 13:59.790 --> 14:02.010 lot of the similar conversations that sounds like you guys were 14:02.010 --> 14:05.190 having. And I think a lot of us have been at least pleasantly 14:05.190 --> 14:07.830 surprised in the short term that the results are a lot different 14:07.830 --> 14:12.090 than expected. Also, I agree with both you guys that, you 14:12.090 --> 14:15.330 know, the wave is coming. I think we're all preparing for 14:15.330 --> 14:20.700 it. And, yeah, we're no different for sure. You know, my 14:20.700 --> 14:24.570 kind of high level comments, I think the way that I look at you 14:24.570 --> 14:26.850 know, how to build this resilient collection strategy is 14:27.600 --> 14:31.350 the things I'll mention are things that that anyone should 14:31.350 --> 14:35.010 probably be doing anyway. But I think because there's a massive 14:35.010 --> 14:38.010 wave, it's going to force us right, like I can, I can 14:38.010 --> 14:40.500 prescribe a bunch of stuff. And I think the things I'm going to 14:40.500 --> 14:43.950 mention probably apply to most businesses, right? It's more for 14:43.950 --> 14:49.080 me, the strategy is more about, you know, broader trends in a 14:49.080 --> 14:54.030 lot of different product lines. And then, you know, an event 14:54.030 --> 14:56.400 like COVID It forces us to sharpen our pencils and get to 14:56.400 --> 14:59.610 work on it. So the things that I see in the marketplace and we'll 14:59.610 --> 15:04.260 see every We're so you know, hyper personalization, right? A 15:04.260 --> 15:07.620 little bit to the, to the point of channel management. But it's 15:07.620 --> 15:09.900 deeper than that. Right? It's, you know, again, similar to what 15:09.900 --> 15:13.620 Amir was saying, get customers in the right channels with the 15:13.620 --> 15:16.800 right message that's hyper personalized to them. Right? 15:16.800 --> 15:19.260 We're all used to it. Now every ad we see on the internet is 15:19.260 --> 15:22.050 hyper personalized to us, you know, everything that marketers 15:22.050 --> 15:24.750 are sending our way is hyper personalized. Right. And so a 15:24.750 --> 15:27.450 lot of that is it's about, I think, historically, the 15:27.510 --> 15:30.210 collection agency or the collections world has been a 15:30.210 --> 15:33.390 little bit like, you owe us money. So we're in the driver's 15:33.390 --> 15:37.530 seat. Right. And I think consumers, millennials, the 15:37.530 --> 15:39.960 younger generation, you know, they expect a different 15:39.960 --> 15:42.600 interaction, they expect everything hyper personalized. 15:42.870 --> 15:45.420 And again, I can say that any business, not just collections. 15:47.190 --> 15:48.930 Amir Tajkariml: I think the thing is the reason I'm sorry, 15:49.380 --> 15:53.250 this this collection, this collection has never done it. 15:53.400 --> 15:56.190 Right. A lot of other segments that have done it collection has 15:56.190 --> 15:56.910 never done it. 15:57.660 --> 15:59.520 Nathan Slee: Right. So it's a great, it's a great opportunity, 15:59.520 --> 16:02.700 right? There's, there's low hanging fruit there. I think the 16:02.700 --> 16:06.120 other thing that I see is, is, you know, it's, we're in an 16:06.120 --> 16:09.210 instant gratification world, right? You know, I think about 16:09.210 --> 16:13.320 payment experience, like when I first got a Visa card, you know, 16:13.320 --> 16:16.560 I'd have to if I went to a merchant, they'd print out a 16:16.560 --> 16:19.680 little slip, and I'd have to sign it. Right. Now I get 16:19.680 --> 16:22.890 annoyed if they don't have tap. Right. So again, it's similar in 16:22.890 --> 16:25.080 the collection space, right? If you're trying to collect money 16:25.080 --> 16:28.710 from someone, you want to make it as easy as possible, you 16:28.710 --> 16:31.680 know, hit them play in this space, where they they play if 16:31.680 --> 16:36.210 they're used to making a payment online with PayPal with, you 16:36.210 --> 16:39.030 know, the credit card with Apple Pay, whatever it is, right? 16:39.030 --> 16:41.940 We're getting so impatient as consumers. And I think if if, 16:41.970 --> 16:45.030 if, with our collection strategies, we can adapt to that 16:45.030 --> 16:49.350 same philosophy, reduce friction, reduce friction, I 16:49.350 --> 16:53.100 think the expectations are really high. And, you know, as 16:53.100 --> 16:55.290 Brian says, We want to be at the top of mind at the top of their 16:55.290 --> 16:58.740 kind of payment stack. Well, if I've got three emails sitting 16:58.740 --> 17:01.740 there, and one is a PDF form, that I've got to print out sign 17:01.740 --> 17:04.410 and fill in my credit card number by hand, or if I've got 17:04.410 --> 17:07.320 one, that's Apple Pay, you know which one I'm gonna pay first, 17:07.350 --> 17:10.230 right? And obviously, you know, maybe I'm speaking to a more 17:10.230 --> 17:13.860 tech comfortable generation, but there's more and more in our 17:13.860 --> 17:18.270 pools. I think Brian was, we were planning to get into this 17:18.270 --> 17:21.780 as well, I think that the other thing is, is trying to build a 17:21.780 --> 17:24.660 data driven strategy, right, we're all sitting on hordes and 17:24.660 --> 17:29.190 hordes of data. And, you know, you hear a lot of AI and machine 17:29.190 --> 17:32.460 learning, and all these kinds of buzzwords. Some of it sounds 17:32.460 --> 17:35.280 really scary, but to be quite honest, you know, anytime I've 17:35.280 --> 17:37.230 looked under the hood of someone who's talking about an AI 17:37.230 --> 17:39.480 solution, it's really not actually as complicated and make 17:39.480 --> 17:42.090 it sound, you know, they want to make it sound really sexy to 17:42.090 --> 17:45.330 attract investors and attention. But really, it's actually so it 17:45.330 --> 17:48.420 gets my point on that is, don't be intimidated. Right, by don't 17:48.420 --> 17:51.270 be intimidated by trying to dive into your data. It's not as 17:51.270 --> 17:53.760 scary as it sounds. And there's lots of people that, you know, 17:53.760 --> 17:56.790 that can help. But we're all sitting on a lot of data that 17:56.790 --> 18:00.480 can help us kind of get back to that hyper personalization or 18:00.480 --> 18:03.300 segmentation, right? Find ways if you don't have internal 18:03.300 --> 18:06.180 expertise, find some third parties, find some outside 18:06.270 --> 18:09.600 resources, and really dive into your data and understand how you 18:09.600 --> 18:13.620 can, you know, segment personalize, you know, hit hit 18:13.620 --> 18:17.070 people where they are, I guess, I think, I think all of this is 18:17.100 --> 18:20.130 these, you know, sort of tidbits, I think are stuff that 18:20.130 --> 18:22.170 like I said, we should be applying anyway, in any 18:22.170 --> 18:25.260 business. But, you know, collections is kind of ripe for 18:25.260 --> 18:28.950 it. Right for for disruption, right for kind of innovation. 18:28.950 --> 18:33.060 And I think I think the coming wave is gonna force people to 18:33.060 --> 18:34.740 kind of innovate or fall behind. 18:34.740 --> 18:37.630 Bryan Szemenyei: And I'd emphasize as well, just to kind 18:37.630 --> 18:40.390 of echo what you're saying, Nathan, is that this group, I 18:40.390 --> 18:45.040 mean, the CLA members, you know, should be a group in our group 18:45.040 --> 18:48.670 that are more comfortable with data and know more about the 18:48.670 --> 18:52.390 customers. And I think a big bank or sort of a big lender or 18:52.750 --> 18:56.860 sort of a legacy lender would. And although the big banks have 18:56.860 --> 18:59.710 a lot of information available to them, it's they surprisingly, 18:59.710 --> 19:03.910 don't do a really effective job of deploying and utilizing that 19:03.910 --> 19:07.360 information within a recovery strategy. They do a really good 19:07.360 --> 19:09.670 job of using that information and customer acquisition 19:09.670 --> 19:12.940 strategy and for fraud prevention, but they don't do as 19:12.940 --> 19:15.550 good of a job on the back end when something is sort of rolled 19:15.550 --> 19:20.890 into a non customer category. So I would say that it's not only 19:20.890 --> 19:25.000 as the sort of the market ripe, but I think this group should 19:25.000 --> 19:27.580 should have the tools and the expertise to be able to sort of 19:27.580 --> 19:31.090 capture that it takes a little bit of elbow grease, and it does 19:31.090 --> 19:35.110 require a focused effort. But it is it should be something that 19:35.440 --> 19:36.760 that we're able to obtain. 19:41.590 --> 19:44.800 James Rose: Something I think you kind of touched on sort of 19:44.800 --> 19:47.680 mirrors, specifically backdrop, you know, when we're talking 19:47.680 --> 19:54.010 about flexible payment options are hyper personalization. But, 19:54.310 --> 19:56.860 you know, just in terms of the changing environment and talking 19:56.860 --> 20:01.150 about automation, what kind of strategy Jeez, what can be done 20:01.150 --> 20:03.760 at anything when, you know, sort of you're dealing with, you 20:03.760 --> 20:06.640 know, a bulk amount of, you know, possible, you know, 20:06.640 --> 20:09.880 collections. And you're talking about hyper personalization. 20:09.880 --> 20:13.300 But, you know, when things are consistently changing, how can 20:13.300 --> 20:17.530 you consistently, you know, try to personalize, when people's 20:17.530 --> 20:21.010 circumstances are so precarious, and, you know, one day they 20:21.010 --> 20:26.920 might be able to pay, but then you know, that it's next month, 20:26.920 --> 20:29.950 a month, things are continuously changing for them is a way to 20:29.950 --> 20:32.650 personalize that as their options in order to deal with 20:32.650 --> 20:35.380 those types of situations. You know, presumably, it's 20:35.380 --> 20:38.710 technology, but perhaps we can sort of talk about that, given 20:38.710 --> 20:41.320 that, you know, certainly one of, you know, provide 20:41.320 --> 20:44.830 flexibility and personalization. But on the other hand, you can't 20:44.830 --> 20:47.920 be so granular that you're dealing with just one customer 20:47.920 --> 20:50.650 all the time. And, you know, their particular situations. 20:51.670 --> 20:53.320 Bryan Szemenyei: Yeah that sort of emphasizes the 20:53.320 --> 20:57.340 personalization is kind of a an Nathan could probably speak more 20:57.340 --> 20:59.440 accurately than I but it's sort of a form of really 20:59.440 --> 21:03.220 sophisticated segmentation, where you try and understand 21:03.220 --> 21:06.190 what a customer, what kind of general box a customer might fit 21:06.190 --> 21:10.000 into, and what type of person that that customer is, what what 21:10.000 --> 21:12.400 point in their life cycle they are, what point in their credit 21:12.400 --> 21:15.250 cycle they are, what their propensities are, to repay what 21:15.250 --> 21:18.880 their capabilities are to repay. And trying to define that 21:18.880 --> 21:21.850 personalization, you can generally group people into 21:21.850 --> 21:25.150 certain areas to indicate to say that this type of customer, this 21:25.150 --> 21:29.170 customer block fits within a category within my overall 21:29.290 --> 21:32.740 portfolio, that they're just not capable right now they don't 21:32.740 --> 21:35.800 have the capacity in order to repay me at this time they're 21:35.800 --> 21:38.830 unemployed, they have no assets, you know, they're living at 21:38.830 --> 21:40.900 home, they have nobody they can rely on, there's just there's 21:40.900 --> 21:43.390 nothing within that personalization, that this 21:43.390 --> 21:47.620 person is going to be time well spent on your side to put 21:47.620 --> 21:51.670 resources behind trying to collect on that individual. But 21:51.670 --> 21:54.670 what that doesn't mean is that that person or that group of 21:54.670 --> 21:57.760 people are not somebody that you want to try and maintain a 21:57.760 --> 22:01.090 relationship with, because that situation will change, these 22:01.090 --> 22:04.600 boxes are not static, and people are dynamically moving around 22:04.600 --> 22:07.870 from them and their capacities over time. So if there is a 22:07.870 --> 22:11.890 group of people that you kind of deemed to be low capacity, low 22:11.890 --> 22:16.600 propensity, in your overall group of accounts, you don't 22:16.600 --> 22:18.700 want to actually spend time on those guys, you might not even 22:18.700 --> 22:21.280 try and collect on those accounts at all, because you'll 22:21.280 --> 22:23.860 just be throwing good money after bad. But you do want to 22:23.860 --> 22:26.830 maintain a relationship with those people and try and make 22:26.830 --> 22:31.210 sure it may maintain some sort of degree of sort of ongoing 22:31.210 --> 22:34.780 thread into them. So that way, when their situation changes, 22:34.900 --> 22:38.080 you can reach back into them or they can reach back into you. So 22:38.200 --> 22:42.310 don't look at these hyper personalisations as being fixed. 22:42.310 --> 22:43.930 They change constantly. 22:44.920 --> 22:46.360 Amir Tajkariml: Yeah, absolutely. And I love that 22:46.360 --> 22:49.810 Brian said, keep the relationship absolute, it's It's 22:50.050 --> 22:53.320 spot on communication, and segmentation is only the first 22:53.320 --> 22:58.780 part. That's really, that's step one. Once you've done that, even 22:58.780 --> 23:00.700 through technology, whether you're communicating via digital 23:00.700 --> 23:04.180 channels, there are certain KPIs that you can put in place. So 23:04.180 --> 23:09.220 you can detect if oh, this person is not engaging as they 23:09.220 --> 23:12.730 used to, or this person is not paying as they used to. So it's 23:12.730 --> 23:15.910 super easy to put in place doesn't take AI, I mean, you can 23:15.910 --> 23:20.560 just I don't know, this person is not opening the emails or 23:20.590 --> 23:23.860 clicking on the pay button as fast as it used to be or they go 23:23.860 --> 23:27.220 on the pay button six times before actually paying. So 23:27.280 --> 23:30.880 there's certain trends that you can, you can detect to see if 23:31.210 --> 23:34.690 beyond the hyper personalization or beyond the segmentation, 23:34.720 --> 23:38.590 something is not going as planned. And these KPIs within 23:38.590 --> 23:41.980 your collection strategy will indicate that they will divulge 23:41.980 --> 23:45.640 some information for you to act accordingly. So maintain that 23:45.640 --> 23:48.430 relationship, whether it's in person, ideally not and you want 23:48.430 --> 23:50.770 to make it as automated as possible. I'm talking because 23:50.770 --> 23:55.960 I'm a tech guy. But, ideally, yeah, you can put some KPIs in 23:55.960 --> 23:58.870 place so that you can there's some information that pops out 23:58.870 --> 24:03.820 when something is going wrong or something is not being as as, as 24:03.820 --> 24:06.490 regular as it used to be. It used to be there was in my 24:06.490 --> 24:06.850 opinion. 24:11.920 --> 24:13.780 Nathan Slee: I'll touch on. I'll touch on that question. Maybe 24:13.810 --> 24:17.620 James, I think because, you know, I sort of started this 24:17.620 --> 24:21.490 hyper personalization comment. I'm just trying to now I gotta 24:21.490 --> 24:24.220 navigate zoom to. James, you have that question in front of 24:24.220 --> 24:25.930 you. So I had it up in this. No, there it is. 24:26.250 --> 24:29.760 James Rose: Yeah, it was a question just about hyper 24:29.760 --> 24:32.580 personalization versus privacy. Is there a line drawn in the 24:32.580 --> 24:33.750 context of collections? 24:34.290 --> 24:36.060 Nathan Slee: And I think the way I think of it was probably more 24:36.060 --> 24:38.760 the way Brian and Amir were talking about it, where it's 24:38.760 --> 24:43.650 more about using the data you have to understand and respond 24:43.650 --> 24:47.520 to the behaviors that you're seeing. Right. So understand 24:47.550 --> 24:50.610 your own like segment your own portfolio and understand which 24:50.610 --> 24:54.240 segments want to be want to hear from you at what time of day how 24:54.240 --> 24:59.250 frequently you want to use what payment methods right I don't 24:59.250 --> 25:01.860 think you're good dig into any privacy concerns or using your 25:01.860 --> 25:06.660 own data to understand your your portfolio's and their behavior. 25:06.660 --> 25:09.030 And then I think Brian's right is probably more accurate to 25:09.030 --> 25:12.840 call it hyper segmentation, and understanding each segments 25:12.840 --> 25:15.300 behavior and each segments preferences. And again, you can 25:15.300 --> 25:18.150 do that all with your own, with your own data, where it's not 25:18.150 --> 25:20.460 about digging deeper into the customer's kind of personal 25:20.460 --> 25:20.880 data. 25:21.990 --> 25:24.330 Amir Tajkariml: And I guess I'm putting my previous previous 25:24.330 --> 25:28.800 life as a banking lawyer hat, you use, you know, privacy, you 25:28.800 --> 25:32.190 use the data that you need, in order to offer the service that 25:32.220 --> 25:35.820 the customer needs, beyond any other data, that's where you go 25:35.820 --> 25:37.890 into the gray zone. And you don't want to do that, you 25:37.890 --> 25:40.620 always need to use the data just to offer the purpose, the 25:40.620 --> 25:43.560 service that the customer needs. And at the end of the day, 25:43.560 --> 25:46.650 within collections, segmentation is a service that the customer 25:46.650 --> 25:49.890 needs. So you see, I mean, if you don't need to know their 25:49.890 --> 25:54.120 their sex or their or their, their age, in order to offer 25:54.180 --> 25:57.270 good collection strategy, you might want to avoid that rule of 25:57.270 --> 26:01.080 thumb, but there are some great sales. But in terms of data, you 26:01.080 --> 26:05.370 always want to use the strict minimum, let's say in a good 26:05.370 --> 26:08.100 rule of thumb in order to offer the best services possible. And 26:08.100 --> 26:12.300 that best service and that minimum, are often like zones 26:12.300 --> 26:14.430 that you have to be very delicate with. 26:15.300 --> 26:17.310 Bryan Szemenyei: I think that's a good point here. I mean, and 26:17.310 --> 26:21.120 generally, there are certain aspects, I mean, of of your data 26:21.120 --> 26:23.670 that you want to make sure you, you understand are more 26:23.670 --> 26:26.460 sensitive than others, even if you are segmenting people down. 26:27.000 --> 26:28.980 You don't want to be breaking, you don't want to let the 26:28.980 --> 26:32.880 machine just sort of determine your behavior. Because if you 26:32.880 --> 26:35.850 are breaking people down in a way that is based on their age, 26:35.850 --> 26:39.540 or is based on a socio economic status that ends up meaning you 26:39.540 --> 26:42.210 treat different groups differently and offer maybe a 26:42.210 --> 26:46.980 different settlement option or a different resolution option to 26:46.980 --> 26:51.570 one group than another, then you can run into issues. But that's 26:51.570 --> 26:53.700 where it's that's some of the art and making sure that your 26:53.700 --> 26:56.700 data is being and your your models are being effectively 26:56.700 --> 26:59.790 moderated so that you don't just sort of let the machine run 26:59.790 --> 27:01.680 wild. But it's an it's a good point. 27:07.980 --> 27:11.040 James Rose: So couldn't they go right? LM? Do you guys do sort 27:11.040 --> 27:13.920 of segmentation as well? Or do you guys have maybe a little bit 27:13.920 --> 27:18.030 of a different strategy, just in terms of, you know, just in 27:18.030 --> 27:20.130 terms of channels and what have you? 27:22.050 --> 27:23.910 Clinton Hosannah: Yeah, definitely, I want to first 27:23.910 --> 27:28.290 thank the CLA for including us here in this in this panel is 27:28.290 --> 27:31.350 very interesting hearing what everyone else is saying. And 27:31.350 --> 27:35.910 I'll echo a lot of what they've said, I would only add that, you 27:35.910 --> 27:41.640 know, for us a good collection strategy, while using data and 27:41.640 --> 27:45.120 data mining to make sure that we stay on top of things, also 27:45.780 --> 27:50.490 includes responsible lending, and especially in with a 27:50.730 --> 27:55.050 possible looming second wave of COVID. And obviously, the 27:55.590 --> 28:00.630 impending end of government help to the people that that need, 28:00.630 --> 28:03.510 and even the companies that needed therefore employing 28:03.510 --> 28:10.110 people. We also wanted to add not just to the to the data 28:10.110 --> 28:14.220 mining and the tech aspect to it to a more empathetic look at our 28:14.220 --> 28:19.320 book, and segment it in where we take certain demographics. And 28:19.320 --> 28:23.190 then from that, do a focus group, if you will, and talk to 28:23.190 --> 28:26.580 people preemptively. You know, maybe when we gave them the 28:26.580 --> 28:28.980 loan, in the beginning, there were indicators that they were 28:28.980 --> 28:32.040 probably in a higher risk category, and talk to them about 28:32.040 --> 28:34.440 what they're going through what they're seeing happening in your 28:34.440 --> 28:39.390 own life. And then from that be able to glean from it which we 28:39.390 --> 28:44.670 have strategies that are kind of pro proactive. In the event, 28:44.670 --> 28:50.340 there's a second wave. And for the obvious in eventful 28:51.030 --> 28:54.570 situation where when a funding stops, that there'll be a lot of 28:54.570 --> 29:00.420 people dealing with what they've done in terms of deferrals and 29:00.420 --> 29:03.420 whatnot and having to kind of reconcile that in their own in 29:03.420 --> 29:07.560 their own homes. That being said, some of the data that 29:07.560 --> 29:12.510 we've received not just from the actual what we have on file for 29:12.510 --> 29:16.710 them, but to compensation to a segment of the population. We've 29:16.710 --> 29:23.040 been able to establish programs that someone can opt into and I 29:23.040 --> 29:27.300 know when you're dealing with with massive quantity, it can be 29:27.300 --> 29:32.520 labor risk, but where that labor is concerned will help us get 29:32.520 --> 29:36.000 more market share in the long run especially through word of 29:36.000 --> 29:36.300 mouth. 29:45.960 --> 29:48.090 James Rose: So what are the questions that kind of did have 29:48.090 --> 29:53.100 as well kind of went around just feeling and understanding 29:53.130 --> 29:55.320 particularly with its within this time just just trying to 29:55.320 --> 29:58.260 understand your economics clearly. Because right now, you 29:58.260 --> 30:01.890 know, we mentioned there's been In a huge influx of government 30:01.890 --> 30:04.890 cash, we assume that there's going to be, you know, a wave 30:04.890 --> 30:07.860 that eventually there's going to be withdrawal of, you know, some 30:07.890 --> 30:12.780 some of that cash. So how do we kind of avoid throwing good 30:12.780 --> 30:16.290 money after bad? And what are some of the strategies that we 30:16.290 --> 30:18.600 can, you know, employ? What are some of the things that we 30:18.600 --> 30:23.100 should actually you don't focus on? Is it? Or do we just go for, 30:23.310 --> 30:26.850 you know, the large, potentially large receivables? Or, you know, 30:26.850 --> 30:31.260 do we sort of focus again, with those segmentations certain 30:31.260 --> 30:34.380 segments where we think we can get more receivables initially, 30:34.380 --> 30:39.120 and then perhaps, once things taper off and get a little bit 30:39.120 --> 30:42.690 better, we can, you know, go against other receivables. So, 30:42.690 --> 30:44.880 sort of what are some of the strategies to ensure that, you 30:44.880 --> 30:47.850 know, just isn't certainly in the medium term anyway, short 30:47.850 --> 30:52.230 medium term that we're using resources and our economics 30:52.380 --> 30:53.760 appropriately and efficiently. 30:55.190 --> 30:58.400 Bryan Szemenyei: Yeah, this is, sorry, no, please go on. 30:59.250 --> 31:01.860 Clinton Hosannah: I think that because these are uncertain 31:01.860 --> 31:08.040 times, that there has to be a certain amount of expenditure 31:08.250 --> 31:13.350 that's allocated, to just kind of dealing with that exact type 31:13.350 --> 31:15.990 of thing. And it's something that we have to eat knowing that 31:16.740 --> 31:20.250 within the next 12 to 18 months, that'll come back, obviously, 31:20.250 --> 31:24.000 the businesses out there to be had, and, you know, kind of like 31:24.000 --> 31:27.930 the canary in the minefield right now, will be the way 31:27.930 --> 31:33.690 receivables are, are going to be affected? Should there be a 31:33.690 --> 31:38.910 second wave and if there isn't, with, with the ending of, of the 31:38.910 --> 31:44.820 government stimulus, seeing how many people and a lot of studies 31:44.820 --> 31:48.660 out there that are staying on top of that hardcore, of how 31:48.660 --> 31:52.410 people will actually be impacted by that, and then we'll be able 31:52.410 --> 31:54.870 to scale up going going for it, but there has to be some 31:54.870 --> 31:57.330 understanding that there's going to be some money spent, and will 31:57.330 --> 32:01.830 be more than the not in terms of keeping your some of your 32:01.830 --> 32:05.340 receivables anyways, and the more customer service based type 32:05.340 --> 32:07.200 of scenario, instead of going third party. 32:09.930 --> 32:12.180 Bryan Szemenyei: Yeah, I mean, it is a challenging time to 32:12.180 --> 32:15.300 understand what it you know, what segments are going to 32:15.300 --> 32:17.550 behave in what way because as Clinton says, the government 32:17.550 --> 32:21.390 stimulus programs have just sort of, you know, poked the machine 32:21.390 --> 32:23.910 and now the machine is acting in ways that it never has before. 32:23.910 --> 32:26.310 But there's, there's sort of two elements that I would sort of 32:26.310 --> 32:28.950 highlight as far as understanding your economics. 32:29.220 --> 32:32.490 And that's really just getting really clear down to what your 32:32.490 --> 32:35.670 unit costs are on a lot of these fronts. And there's, there's two 32:35.670 --> 32:39.480 pieces that make that tricky one is, you get sort of emotionally 32:39.480 --> 32:41.700 attached to the loan that you've given out. And if you've given 32:41.700 --> 32:44.940 out a $10,000 loan, you then go to that person and try and 32:44.940 --> 32:50.520 collect a $10,000 loan, that number is gone, that person has 32:50.520 --> 32:53.100 an a different situation than when the loan was originated, 32:53.280 --> 32:55.410 could have been a health incident could have been a job 32:55.410 --> 32:58.410 loss could have been macro economic factors, but that all 32:58.410 --> 33:01.830 that number represents is the ceiling of the number that you 33:01.830 --> 33:05.850 are possibly able to recover from that person, it does not 33:05.850 --> 33:08.310 represent that is the number that you have to be going after 33:08.310 --> 33:13.110 that individual for because that person's capacity and propensity 33:13.110 --> 33:15.330 to be able to repay you has changed dramatically over that 33:15.330 --> 33:18.150 period of time. So you almost have to re adjudicate that 33:18.150 --> 33:22.110 individual to say how much credit is this person worth 33:22.110 --> 33:25.950 given their current situation? And would I take this amount of 33:25.950 --> 33:30.480 credit in replacement for the $10,000 account or the $20,000 33:30.480 --> 33:33.420 account that I previously had. And that can be a difficult 33:33.420 --> 33:37.410 emotional point to make, and that you still get attached to 33:37.410 --> 33:40.590 the $10,000 account. And you may want to hang around the hoop and 33:40.590 --> 33:43.020 say, You know what, I'm not going to take a lower amount. 33:43.020 --> 33:45.780 But as we sort of said earlier, just maintain a relationship, 33:45.780 --> 33:48.630 because we think in the future, the person will have capacity, 33:48.840 --> 33:53.580 or will have the desire to repay me. So that's sort of item one. 33:53.880 --> 33:57.150 The second item is about understanding your cost 33:57.150 --> 34:00.540 structure much more clearly than you previously have. So you 34:00.540 --> 34:05.010 don't want to spend $3,000 chasing an account that is only 34:05.010 --> 34:07.710 $2,500 in balance, right? I mean, that's just kind of 34:07.710 --> 34:11.250 obvious. But, you know, you've got to really understand how 34:11.250 --> 34:15.810 these costs that you incur, compare against the benefits 34:15.810 --> 34:18.720 that you're that you're getting on them. And if you're spending 34:18.720 --> 34:22.230 an inordinate amount of money to try and track down low balance 34:22.230 --> 34:25.530 accounts, or even mid balance accounts, then you probably 34:25.560 --> 34:28.140 could be taking those dollars and redeploying them into 34:28.140 --> 34:31.920 originations and making a better return on equity in that side of 34:31.920 --> 34:35.430 your business. So it is a it is something you really understand 34:35.430 --> 34:38.130 need to understand your your unit economics and and your 34:38.130 --> 34:40.350 opportunity costs much more clearly. 34:42.539 --> 34:45.749 Amir Tajkariml: I again, I agree. We're aligned on a lot of 34:45.749 --> 34:51.869 things that Clinton and Brian said in my opinion in terms of 34:51.869 --> 34:54.989 treating where how you attack your receivables i I personally 34:54.989 --> 34:57.749 believe that not you know, not everybody is an absolute 34:57.749 --> 34:59.969 delinquent as soon as they are laden on an on a on an 34:59.999 --> 35:04.589 receivable. I think one strategy can be to focus on the low 35:04.589 --> 35:09.149 hanging fruit. Early delinquency can be salvaged through 35:09.149 --> 35:13.019 automation. Again, to come back to that. I think automation can 35:13.019 --> 35:17.339 help attack a lot of those receivables that can be self 35:17.339 --> 35:21.089 cured. And you can allow your team, your collection agents to 35:21.089 --> 35:23.579 actually focus on the more complex accounts, the ones that 35:23.579 --> 35:26.729 actually need human intervention, those can have 35:26.729 --> 35:29.789 their own treatment cycle, those can have their own strategy. But 35:29.789 --> 35:33.749 there's a lot of a portion of it, where you can, you can 35:33.749 --> 35:37.199 automate and collect from using using automation using using 35:37.409 --> 35:42.509 software. And that will allow you to basically kind of fucking 35:42.509 --> 35:45.329 hone down on what are we actually focusing on? Because a 35:45.329 --> 35:49.739 lot of it is being handled in the background? That's one thing 35:49.739 --> 35:51.749 and I noticed that very interesting question. I think 35:51.749 --> 35:55.739 Kevin is put there, James, that okay, if I answer it, or well, 35:55.739 --> 35:58.469 we'll give her opinion on it. Is that okay? I can't hear you. 35:59.520 --> 36:05.310 Clinton Hosannah: Yeah, go ahead. Please, go ahead. 36:06.750 --> 36:10.530 Amir Tajkariml: Yeah. And it's, we noticed is, how effective is 36:10.530 --> 36:14.670 having multiple payment methods? Do you see there's a substantial 36:14.670 --> 36:17.760 decrease for defaults, we noticed that adding credit card, 36:17.820 --> 36:22.680 bank transfer and PayPal, it just it absolutely increases 36:22.920 --> 36:26.430 payment methods. Because don't forget, quite often, maybe one 36:26.430 --> 36:29.760 account doesn't have money, but your payroll is now deposited 36:29.760 --> 36:32.490 into another account, you didn't have time to transfer that 36:32.490 --> 36:36.030 account, or that payment method, just being able to do it and 36:36.030 --> 36:39.090 select different accounts on your own on your mobile is 36:39.120 --> 36:44.040 absolutely tremendous. And it really increases your collection 36:44.040 --> 36:46.920 rates. And the other one, how effective is communication via 36:46.920 --> 36:50.220 social media? Again, I'm putting my my previous lawyer hat, 36:50.670 --> 36:54.720 usually, when a loan is given to a consumer, you have a clause in 36:54.720 --> 36:57.000 there that says you allow us to communicate with you via the 36:57.000 --> 37:00.450 method that you have provided, if one of those method is social 37:00.450 --> 37:03.690 media, I guess it's okay. But it's very, very rare that you 37:03.690 --> 37:07.980 give your Twitter handle or your Facebook handle to it. And in 37:07.980 --> 37:12.300 terms of commercial loans, you always have section 13 is always 37:12.300 --> 37:15.780 there right before miscellaneous that says notices can be sent to 37:15.780 --> 37:19.800 this email address or this email address for the borrower or 37:19.860 --> 37:24.960 creditor. So I mean, unless it's actually allowed, I don't think 37:24.960 --> 37:27.270 you can, you can send communication via social media, 37:27.270 --> 37:29.670 that's an opens Pandora's box, 37:30.150 --> 37:32.820 Bryan Szemenyei: I would echo that point is that, you know, 37:32.820 --> 37:36.000 going on, there are some precedents not in Canada, but 37:36.000 --> 37:40.020 in, in Europe, and some in the US of companies trying to use 37:40.020 --> 37:44.190 social media as a as a means in order to collect. And it's sort 37:44.190 --> 37:46.770 of the equivalent to sort of driving up to somebody's house 37:46.770 --> 37:50.010 and then putting a stake in their lawn as this person owes 37:50.010 --> 37:53.250 money. And it really is not received well by government 37:53.250 --> 37:58.980 regulators, by rightfully so. So I would highly caution against 37:59.250 --> 38:03.540 against using social media as a as a channel, but the having 38:03.540 --> 38:07.170 multiple payment channels is certainly useful. Again, a point 38:07.170 --> 38:10.740 of caution is anytime you add multiple payment channels, you 38:10.740 --> 38:13.290 will cannibalize some of your previous payment channels, which 38:13.290 --> 38:15.660 might be fine. I mean, ultimately, the objective is to 38:15.840 --> 38:18.630 remove friction from the customer's payment process 38:18.630 --> 38:22.260 cycle. But if you're sort of input, bringing in a payment 38:22.260 --> 38:25.200 processing system, for example, like I'll use square as an 38:25.200 --> 38:27.420 example, though, it's not one that you need to be you need to 38:27.420 --> 38:31.740 be physically there. But it has a very high transaction cost. If 38:31.740 --> 38:35.130 you're if you're cannibalizing some people from another payment 38:35.130 --> 38:39.780 cycle, which is a lower, lower cost transaction over to a 38:39.780 --> 38:42.840 higher cost transaction channel, you're just dropping your costs, 38:42.840 --> 38:45.300 you're not really increasing your recoveries, there might be 38:45.300 --> 38:47.640 some offsetting effect there, but just make sure you 38:47.640 --> 38:50.850 understand that it's not about having 1000 different payment 38:50.850 --> 38:54.390 cycles, it's about having five really good payment channels. 38:55.620 --> 38:58.710 Nathan Slee: Just to pick up on that a little bit to go a little 38:58.710 --> 39:01.860 deeper on that. I mean, I think as we're all trying to roll out 39:01.860 --> 39:07.320 new strategies and come up with ways to be more resilient. You 39:07.320 --> 39:09.930 know, don't don't be shy to start slow, right? Like, like, 39:09.960 --> 39:12.420 if you're rolling out a new payment tool, you know, roll it 39:12.420 --> 39:15.060 out to a very small segment, write test everything first be 39:15.060 --> 39:18.270 scientific about it, understand if it is having the desired 39:18.270 --> 39:20.790 impact or not having the desired impact, right, like don't get 39:21.000 --> 39:24.990 don't panic and roll something out new to your entire portfolio 39:24.990 --> 39:27.690 without seeing if it's worked or not, right, give give everything 39:27.690 --> 39:30.990 a chance in a small test environment and measure those 39:30.990 --> 39:33.360 results to make sure that you're actually getting what you want. 39:34.500 --> 39:39.690 James Rose: Absolutely. I guess sort of to that point. So 39:39.690 --> 39:45.570 starting slow, is there any reimagining different types of 39:45.570 --> 39:48.900 partnerships for example, that, you know, we can exploit just in 39:48.900 --> 39:52.170 terms of more efficient strategies going forward just to 39:52.170 --> 39:56.100 ensure that you know, the old adage together we're stronger 39:56.280 --> 40:00.720 type thing is, is that any of your guys's mindsets are, you 40:00.720 --> 40:01.380 know, at this time? 40:02.399 --> 40:04.229 Clinton Hosannah: I'm planning to partner with everyone in this 40:04.229 --> 40:04.589 channel. 40:07.930 --> 40:10.090 Bryan Szemenyei: Well, and I think I think the point that I 40:10.090 --> 40:12.040 was trying to make and this is obviously sort of, you know, 40:12.040 --> 40:15.310 self serving is I think all of our businesses are built on the 40:15.310 --> 40:20.200 idea of partnering with each other. Because in in sort of an 40:20.200 --> 40:23.530 individual basis, no company, you know, within the CLI makes 40:23.530 --> 40:27.220 up a significant conglomerate to an absolute behemoth 40:27.220 --> 40:30.550 organization, like a bank that has all of these verticals, and 40:30.550 --> 40:33.520 can build out all the components and build out their product 40:33.520 --> 40:36.190 teams and their tech teams, and they have 20 people on a single 40:36.190 --> 40:40.840 channel and all those pieces, that will never be the path for 40:40.870 --> 40:43.990 small business. And it shouldn't be, it's not the most effective 40:43.990 --> 40:48.850 way to to grow our businesses as a whole, because the opportunity 40:48.850 --> 40:51.730 costs and the resources and the time to deployment are just way 40:51.730 --> 40:55.930 too high. So I encourage all companies within the CLA to look 40:55.930 --> 41:01.030 into the network that this is because individually, we 41:01.030 --> 41:05.830 represent a vast array of very deep experts. And frankly, I 41:05.830 --> 41:09.130 think better experts than exist in a lot of more larger 41:09.130 --> 41:13.540 conglomerates. So collectively, you do have quite a expansive 41:13.690 --> 41:15.880 suite of capabilities, there's some things that you want to 41:15.880 --> 41:17.950 internalize. And there's some things that you want to 41:17.950 --> 41:21.550 externalize. But I think partnerships are the much more 41:21.550 --> 41:26.620 effective way to deploy and test and decrease the risks that 41:26.620 --> 41:30.370 something will not, will not sort of be effectively launched. 41:30.370 --> 41:36.130 So yes, is this is the quicker answer to utilize partnerships 41:36.130 --> 41:36.970 wherever you can and. 41:37.840 --> 41:41.410 Clinton Hosannah: You know, in this, in this age of 41:41.770 --> 41:46.990 uncertainty, especially as it relates to what may happen in in 41:46.990 --> 41:52.960 the fall, in regards to stimulus as well as possible second wave, 41:53.200 --> 41:58.930 Echo Brian's sentiments were I'm looking forward to being able to 42:00.250 --> 42:04.930 lobby government, federal and provincial for leverage that 42:04.930 --> 42:09.970 will allow for less red tape. And in certain instances when it 42:09.970 --> 42:13.690 comes to lending and for sure, in terms of collections, while 42:13.690 --> 42:18.400 being responsible, and having, you know, a kind of pulse on 42:18.400 --> 42:22.960 what's happening with the the Canadian public still be able to 42:22.960 --> 42:27.670 be effective at it, you know, because I will say that some of 42:27.670 --> 42:31.960 the people that we've heard from when it comes to collections, 42:32.140 --> 42:34.570 from what they hear in the media, what they have a clear 42:34.570 --> 42:37.120 understanding or not, it's kind of like, I don't have to pay in 42:37.120 --> 42:40.240 on their smug about it in the sense that, hey, you know, what, 42:40.240 --> 42:42.580 you know, it's COVID, you know, what I mean? And I'm thinking to 42:42.580 --> 42:46.510 myself, you know, you have to be wise, I don't want to say 42:46.510 --> 42:49.750 something to them that's going to, you know, make them feel 42:49.750 --> 42:51.910 like, they have no understanding, but the truth of 42:51.910 --> 42:54.430 the matter is that, you know, with deferrals and taken 42:54.430 --> 42:56.500 advantage of these types of things, whether it's with us or 42:56.500 --> 42:59.890 with a big bank, the chickens will, at one time, come home to 42:59.890 --> 43:05.110 roost, you know, and we'll be there still. So I think the CLA 43:05.110 --> 43:09.460 being this conduit to be able to lobby government and kind of 43:09.670 --> 43:14.830 help shepherd some of the people that are going to be hurt with 43:15.370 --> 43:19.870 with these pain points is why so a lot of the projecting that we 43:19.870 --> 43:23.950 can do a lot of the planning that we can do squarely lens in 43:23.950 --> 43:31.900 the the understanding that our relationship all converge with 43:31.900 --> 43:35.740 this CLA type of middle ground. 43:41.789 --> 43:42.989 Amir Tajkariml: Yeah, what Clinton said. 43:47.219 --> 43:53.399 James R: Keep muting myself there. So we're at 10. Well, we 43:53.399 --> 43:55.589 got about 14 more minutes left. So I just want to encourage 43:55.589 --> 43:58.469 anybody if they've had questions, we were like I said, 43:58.469 --> 44:01.589 we're going to leave the last 15 minutes for questions to the 44:01.589 --> 44:05.579 end. But again, we're all obviously wanting to encourage 44:05.579 --> 44:09.059 people to ask questions throughout. But just given that 44:09.089 --> 44:11.759 we're sort of nearing the end, if you do have any questions, do 44:11.759 --> 44:15.479 encourage you just to go in the q&a box or type them in, and our 44:15.479 --> 44:20.549 panelists will certainly be happy to inter entertain those. 44:25.499 --> 44:35.819 So I guess maybe just moving on to the next topic. Is just in 44:35.849 --> 44:38.759 regards to the Yeah, the government us, you know, 44:38.759 --> 44:46.139 stimulus programs and the, you know, withdrawal of that. And 44:46.169 --> 44:48.749 how do you think what do you think is going to be the biggest 44:48.749 --> 44:52.979 factor and biggest risk to our respective firms or firms or 44:52.979 --> 44:57.299 businesses as those you know, government payments, you know, 44:57.299 --> 45:00.989 sort of do come to a halt. Obvious See, when we're dealing 45:00.989 --> 45:03.269 with bankruptcies, you know, there's a process there that's 45:03.269 --> 45:07.649 sort of out of our hands. But how is it that we can best sort 45:07.649 --> 45:14.729 of manage that as the inevitable government funding does come to 45:14.759 --> 45:15.329 a halt? 45:17.880 --> 45:20.640 Bryan Szemenyei: Yeah, is so I think as that government program 45:20.640 --> 45:22.260 is going to come to a halt, there's going to be sort of some 45:22.260 --> 45:27.150 specific consumer effects. Naturally, for those people who 45:27.150 --> 45:30.330 are on certain programs who are not able to transition to EI, 45:30.330 --> 45:34.110 they'll find a pretty material drop in their, in their top line 45:34.110 --> 45:37.560 income, that they've got available to them. And sort of 45:37.560 --> 45:39.630 concurrently that a little not a lot of people are sort of 45:39.630 --> 45:42.990 noticing as well. OSFI right now is changing the regulations 45:42.990 --> 45:45.720 around how it recognizes mortgage deferrals, which is 45:45.720 --> 45:49.590 going to make it much more difficult for for the banks in 45:49.590 --> 45:52.590 order to continue their their mortgage deferral programs, and 45:52.590 --> 45:55.980 they're going to start pushing to get those those payments back 45:55.980 --> 45:58.980 up to good standing. So as a result of that, you're going to 45:58.980 --> 46:02.400 see a very material top line drop in people's income and a 46:02.400 --> 46:06.210 pretty material increase in people's non discretionary 46:06.210 --> 46:10.410 spending. So those items are going to create quite a bit of 46:10.410 --> 46:15.930 squeeze and a crunch on free cash flow available for for debt 46:15.930 --> 46:19.050 retirement or savings. And as much as people have been 46:19.050 --> 46:22.230 satisfying their debts during this period of time, that will 46:22.440 --> 46:26.640 affect recovery rates, and it will affect delinquency rates as 46:26.670 --> 46:29.580 people can't satisfy minimum payments on their debt. So that 46:29.580 --> 46:33.150 is what will happen in the fall. Right. The question then is how 46:33.150 --> 46:35.970 do you sort of prepare, you know, for that exercise, and and 46:35.970 --> 46:38.580 what can you do in order to try and to try and satisfy it? I 46:38.580 --> 46:41.040 think that's kind of what we've been trying to talk about today. 46:41.040 --> 46:43.440 And but establishing those relationships early and get 46:43.440 --> 46:48.630 those those sorts of pieces in place. You know, ultimately, for 46:48.630 --> 46:51.360 those consumers, though, they're going to, they're going to stop 46:51.360 --> 46:54.540 paying. And I think people need to establish a, you know, as 46:54.540 --> 46:57.540 we've started from the beginning of relationship now, in order to 46:57.570 --> 47:02.040 maintain some degree of consistency on a post on a sort 47:02.040 --> 47:06.720 of a post stimulus basis. Now, the other open question here is 47:06.720 --> 47:08.820 whether or not there will be a second round of stimulus 47:08.820 --> 47:11.400 programs that are being put in place. I think one thing I've 47:11.400 --> 47:14.610 learned through this exercise is don't fight the Fed in Canadian 47:14.610 --> 47:17.640 version of it. So don't fight the BOC, if you want to call it 47:17.640 --> 47:21.720 that. So wait and see whether or not there is a another program 47:21.720 --> 47:24.510 that is run out. But if that does happen, then we'll find 47:24.510 --> 47:26.940 this will just keep pushing, you know these items out farther and 47:26.940 --> 47:30.870 farther. Specific as it relates to insolvencies. insolvencies, 47:30.870 --> 47:33.840 as you mentioned, James, those are a difficult one in order to 47:33.840 --> 47:37.470 prevent the actual event from occurring. Because by the time 47:37.470 --> 47:39.630 you receive an insolvency, notice the consumer has already 47:39.630 --> 47:42.420 walked into a trustees office, they filled out an insolvency 47:42.420 --> 47:46.080 form, they've gone through the financial disclosures, and 47:46.110 --> 47:49.380 they've submitted the file, they've already jumped the sort 47:49.380 --> 47:52.320 of emotional shark if you will, and they're filing that process. 47:52.320 --> 47:55.170 So there's very little mitigation you can do to the 47:55.170 --> 47:58.980 event itself. What you can do is evaluate the insolvencies that 47:58.980 --> 48:01.800 are coming through, they're not written in stone that the 48:01.800 --> 48:04.980 information that is presented is the information that you must 48:04.980 --> 48:08.520 accept. There are excuse me, challenge options, there are 48:09.090 --> 48:11.880 sort of different tactics you can take with the trustees in 48:11.880 --> 48:14.970 order to try and increase the quality of the insolvency that 48:14.970 --> 48:19.050 is coming. Those have very strict guidelines around them. 48:19.050 --> 48:21.750 And you know, we could spend a whole session on that as well. 48:21.750 --> 48:24.690 But don't ignore that part of your book, because it does 48:24.690 --> 48:26.250 require some attention as well. 48:28.440 --> 48:32.220 Clinton Hosannah: I think that part of this, too, is keeping an 48:32.220 --> 48:37.110 eye on what's going to happening politically. I mean, if Erin 48:37.110 --> 48:42.870 O'Toole triggers a an election after Troodos throne speech, and 48:43.590 --> 48:46.890 depending on what happens after that, if we're in a situation 48:46.890 --> 48:49.350 with majority Liberal government, federal Liberal 48:49.350 --> 48:54.660 government or a majority or minority, new, more right 48:54.660 --> 49:01.230 leaning federal government, and we can rest assured that how the 49:01.230 --> 49:03.990 stimulus potential stimulus package if there is a second 49:03.990 --> 49:10.950 wave is rolled out, definitely affect what we can do. But 49:10.980 --> 49:15.600 paying attention to it on on that level also gives us an 49:15.600 --> 49:19.080 opportunity to be ready again, in the event that there isn't, I 49:19.080 --> 49:22.200 mean, you know, Canada's doing very well, we obviously should 49:22.200 --> 49:25.830 be doing better, like lower numbers in terms of cases of 49:25.830 --> 49:28.860 people getting COVID, but it's still pretty low. And I think 49:28.860 --> 49:33.300 that if there isn't a second wave, we know for a fact that 49:33.300 --> 49:35.430 they're not going to want to pull out money instead, it'd be 49:35.430 --> 49:40.320 more of an aggressive way to lower deficit. And with that 49:40.320 --> 49:42.360 being the case fiscal responsibility would be the 49:42.360 --> 49:48.360 message. And as long as that message is being communicated, 49:48.390 --> 49:54.180 whether it's through tech, in in, in what we do, AI or 49:54.180 --> 49:59.580 otherwise, that's how we can make sure to, to mitigate what 49:59.580 --> 50:01.890 can become Other hand collections, but at the end of 50:01.890 --> 50:05.160 the day, there should be a lot more business coming in and 50:05.160 --> 50:07.920 hopefully that it helps on that end to in terms of acquisition. 50:11.880 --> 50:17.310 James Rose: Or question here, from Eric, options, benefits 50:17.310 --> 50:21.420 last drawbacks of third party slaps external collections or 50:21.420 --> 50:24.900 credit counseling for first notice and or unresponsive 50:24.900 --> 50:28.260 clients, good extending an offer for assistance be more 50:28.260 --> 50:28.770 effective. 50:34.800 --> 50:36.810 Bryan Szemenyei: I'm not going to begin, but I'll turn it over 50:36.810 --> 50:42.540 to others who always have an opinion. You know, if somebody 50:42.540 --> 50:45.240 else feel free to jump in, I think there's different kinds of 50:45.240 --> 50:46.830 categories that you've kind of broken out there. If I 50:46.830 --> 50:50.430 understand the question, it's what for very early stage 50:50.430 --> 50:52.980 delinquency, should I be internalizing that that 50:52.980 --> 50:55.800 activity? Or should I be partnering with a third party 50:55.800 --> 50:58.950 collection agency, or a credit counselor in order to send a 50:58.950 --> 51:02.550 notice from a third party, will that generate a better response 51:02.580 --> 51:06.000 than it would if I just send another notice from the company 51:06.000 --> 51:09.510 that I already have? I think to some degree, that depends on the 51:09.510 --> 51:11.760 hyper personalization that we kind of talked to at the 51:11.760 --> 51:14.250 beginning, it depends on the customer. And that if you 51:14.250 --> 51:17.550 already have a positive relationship with that customer, 51:17.760 --> 51:21.510 then you should be able to generate a better response than 51:21.690 --> 51:25.440 a third party agency being kind of dropped in front of them. I'd 51:25.440 --> 51:29.400 also caution that a third party agency can sometimes create a 51:29.400 --> 51:32.100 little bit of a defensive posture from a consumers 51:32.100 --> 51:35.970 perspective, and that they, they suddenly feel like they can't 51:36.000 --> 51:39.240 call out and reach out to you because they're, they're being 51:39.270 --> 51:41.700 reached out by a collection agency, it's not always the 51:41.700 --> 51:45.030 case. But sometimes it can have that sort of effect with people. 51:45.570 --> 51:47.700 So you've got to be a little bit cautious, it can be a little bit 51:47.700 --> 51:53.850 expensive, but it is a effective means in order to induce an 51:53.850 --> 51:57.240 activity from a consumer who you haven't been able to develop an 51:57.240 --> 52:00.540 effective relationship with or who was already in a defensive 52:00.540 --> 52:04.290 posture, you know, you're better to kind of push that 52:04.290 --> 52:07.620 relationship and let them be the bad guy than it is to let you be 52:07.620 --> 52:10.830 the bad guy. So it kind of depends on that. As it relates 52:10.830 --> 52:13.080 to the credit counseling industry, it is important to 52:13.080 --> 52:14.970 break the credit counseling industry into its kind of 52:14.970 --> 52:18.600 constituent pieces. There are for profit credit counselors and 52:18.600 --> 52:21.690 their non for profit credit credit counselors, the non for 52:21.690 --> 52:26.070 profit credit counselors are a softer approach to the consumer. 52:26.070 --> 52:29.070 And they don't cost the consumer as much money, they cost the 52:29.070 --> 52:33.540 creditor money. But it is a more sort of accepted version, I 52:33.540 --> 52:38.490 would say of credit counseling for the consumer space, the for 52:38.490 --> 52:41.610 profit credit counselors will actually charge the consumer 52:41.610 --> 52:44.820 money. And I don't want to sort of paint them all with a single 52:44.820 --> 52:48.330 brush, but they sort of to help the consumer dodge their debts. 52:48.360 --> 52:51.690 So it's a different type of process than it is somebody 52:51.690 --> 52:54.540 who's actually helping them resolve their debts. And I would 52:54.540 --> 52:57.810 say make sure that if you're if you're going down that path, 52:57.840 --> 53:00.120 even if it is a for profit, make sure it's the right type of for 53:00.120 --> 53:03.660 profit. And it's not just kicking off a relationship to 53:03.840 --> 53:06.780 another party whose primary job is going to be to wrestle that 53:06.780 --> 53:07.770 relationship from you. 53:07.770 --> 53:13.720 Amir Tajkariml: Yeah I knew that, it might be what we see 53:13.720 --> 53:18.010 with our clients is that if in early delinquency, you want to 53:18.010 --> 53:20.980 go to third party what that does is one yes, absolutely. Like 53:20.980 --> 53:24.490 Brian said, it's expensive. But we also noticed that it kind of 53:25.060 --> 53:27.730 this we work with telcos, we work with utilities, we work 53:27.730 --> 53:30.130 with banks, and they told us listen, we want to avoid going 53:30.130 --> 53:33.310 to collection is third party is good. I'm not I'm not bashing 53:33.310 --> 53:36.040 anyone. But I'm just saying, we want to avoid getting going to 53:36.040 --> 53:38.290 collections at the beginning, because we noticed as soon as 53:38.290 --> 53:41.080 you go to collections, it kind of breaks that relationship 53:41.080 --> 53:45.610 between us and the customer. And what it also does is that that 53:45.610 --> 53:50.470 collect third party doesn't necessarily have your brand, as 53:50.500 --> 53:53.890 a at heart in terms of that, that's our value proposition. 53:53.890 --> 53:57.130 They're working with multiple brands. So it may have an effect 53:57.130 --> 53:59.530 on your brand, because the strategies may be a little bit, 53:59.860 --> 54:03.790 a little bit more tough and right, rightfully so. But just 54:03.790 --> 54:06.700 in terms of early collection. That's why one of the we've 54:06.700 --> 54:09.730 noticed these days. And now especially with all the social 54:09.730 --> 54:13.000 media out there, as soon as you see a bad review, it can affect 54:13.000 --> 54:17.290 the whole, the whole the whole pie. So you want to be as 54:17.320 --> 54:23.500 flexible and as keep as internal as possible. Because it can, it 54:23.500 --> 54:26.260 can break the relationship if you go to third party a bit too 54:26.260 --> 54:31.510 soon. What we've noticed the past 50 years, six to seven 54:31.510 --> 54:36.040 years collection has always been a little bit on the on the rigid 54:36.040 --> 54:41.230 side. And nowadays flexibility is key. You need to keep that as 54:41.230 --> 54:44.410 internal as possible. And we've seen the results are better when 54:44.410 --> 54:47.470 you try internally to handle that situation with the 54:47.470 --> 54:50.200 customer. And then ultimately if it doesn't work, we're like you 54:50.200 --> 54:53.770 know, you've tried your your different scenarios, and then 54:53.770 --> 54:56.020 you can give it up to a third party anyways, in our 54:56.020 --> 54:58.840 experience, we've noticed that internalizing it as much as 54:58.840 --> 55:02.470 possible at the earliest at early stage makes a difference. 55:04.150 --> 55:06.550 Because brands right now like big brands, Rogers, these, 55:07.030 --> 55:11.410 they're very, they're very worried that their brand may may 55:11.410 --> 55:15.340 be affected, right, it's very important to keep that perfect 55:15.640 --> 55:19.660 reputation. And off very often has happened. And we have data 55:19.660 --> 55:21.760 to show it. I mean, we're not going to hide themselves. It's 55:21.760 --> 55:24.280 that when it goes very often, when it good went to collection 55:24.280 --> 55:28.030 agency, it became a little bit rough. So that's that's the 55:28.030 --> 55:32.050 thing, but it's all changing. It's all improving. And with 55:32.080 --> 55:35.440 those my comments regarding early collections, or lead 55:35.440 --> 55:35.950 delinquency. 55:39.300 --> 55:42.204 James Rose: Right,1 we have, maybe time for one more 55:42.277 --> 55:46.416 question. So just play if anybody has one. But I guess in 55:46.489 --> 55:51.064 the meantime, I'm going to hand it back to Tom here. But I just 55:51.136 --> 55:55.639 saw just want to thank the panel for sharing your insights and 55:55.711 --> 55:59.560 with us and your, your, your tips, and how to build a 55:59.633 --> 56:02.755 maintaining resilient collections practice, 56:02.828 --> 56:07.258 particularly within these times of uncertainty. But you know, 56:07.330 --> 56:11.397 one of the things that I got out of it, though, as well, 56:11.470 --> 56:16.045 especially we're talking about the beginning, you know, certain 56:16.117 --> 56:20.765 strategies that can be employed, or I guess, kind of things that 56:20.838 --> 56:25.413 we should be doing anyway. And if we're constantly doing those, 56:25.485 --> 56:28.971 looking back at what's effective, and what's not 56:29.044 --> 56:33.183 effective, that'll certainly help by us, you know, in the 56:33.255 --> 56:37.395 future, because things are always dynamic and changing. I 56:37.467 --> 56:42.042 guess this is just more of one of a degree. So yes, I just want 56:42.115 --> 56:46.617 to thank Amir and Nathan, Brian, and Ben, for joining us today 56:46.690 --> 56:50.757 and having this opportunity, also to moderate and it was 56:50.829 --> 56:55.114 great meeting you virtually as well. And yeah, thank you to 56:55.186 --> 56:59.761 everybody who participated and throughout the country, and I'll 56:59.834 --> 57:01.650 just hand it back to Tal. 57:02.400 --> 57:06.030 Tal Schwartz: Thanks so much, James. And thank you, everyone, 57:06.030 --> 57:11.400 for a really interesting discussion. We, like I mentioned 57:11.400 --> 57:14.310 at the beginning, we're going to be circulating the recording to 57:14.310 --> 57:16.650 everyone that registered, so don't worry if you miss a little 57:16.650 --> 57:20.430 bit of it. And, you know, we'd love to have you back. We're 57:20.430 --> 57:23.760 running these webinars on different topics and lending and 57:23.760 --> 57:28.290 fintech almost every month. So if you want to participate, if 57:28.290 --> 57:31.950 you have a topic that you'd really like us to cover, or if 57:31.950 --> 57:35.460 you just want to be more involved in the Kenyan lenders 57:35.460 --> 57:40.350 Association, please reach out at myself or, or follow us on 57:40.350 --> 57:46.290 LinkedIn. Again, thank you so much to Lexa up for sponsoring 57:46.290 --> 57:51.630 this, this webinar. And we'll be sharing laptops contact 57:51.630 --> 57:56.400 information as well in when we share the recording. So if I Oh, 57:56.400 --> 58:00.420 thank you, everyone so much for joining us across the country. 58:00.690 --> 58:02.580 And I will see you all very, very soon. 58:03.420 --> 58:05.370 Unknown: Thank you. Appreciate you guys.