1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.220 Johny Fernandez: So welcome to deBanked News Live. I'm Johny 2 00:00:02.220 --> 00:00:06.180 Fernandez here with Sean Murray. Sean. Let's do this. Welcome 3 00:00:06.180 --> 00:00:06.600 back. 4 00:00:06.810 --> 00:00:07.620 Sean Murray: Thank you. Thank you. 5 00:00:07.890 --> 00:00:10.770 Johny Fernandez: So let's get straight to it. So big news on 6 00:00:10.770 --> 00:00:14.970 Bitcoin. It's up to $18,000. Let's let's talk about it I 7 00:00:14.970 --> 00:00:17.520 mean, what exactly happened and what's going on now? 8 00:00:17.520 --> 00:00:20.570 Sean Murray: Yeah it's like the big story that nobody's talking 9 00:00:20.570 --> 00:00:26.360 about, right? No, no, like, individual person seems to be 10 00:00:26.360 --> 00:00:30.290 buying Bitcoin. It seems to be like faceless corporations 11 00:00:30.590 --> 00:00:33.860 buying up the price. That's what it looks like. Right? Yeah. 12 00:00:33.890 --> 00:00:36.620 Because in 2017, when we had the big bull run the big bull 13 00:00:36.620 --> 00:00:40.580 market, everyone was talking about it. Your cab driver was 14 00:00:40.580 --> 00:00:43.160 talking about it. My friends are talking about it. You know, 15 00:00:43.160 --> 00:00:44.840 people's parents and grandparents were asking. 16 00:00:44.840 --> 00:00:48.650 Everyone had it. Everyone had it. Yeah. CNBC was talking about 17 00:00:48.650 --> 00:00:52.070 it constantly. Right now nobody's talking about it, cause 18 00:00:52.070 --> 00:00:55.160 the price is right back up to where it was back at the peak of 19 00:00:55.160 --> 00:00:59.000 the bull run. So something is wrong. Why is the price going 20 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:02.540 up? But nobody's talking about it? So I think what's happening 21 00:01:02.540 --> 00:01:06.890 right now is we're probably have some sort of artificial market. 22 00:01:07.340 --> 00:01:10.010 And I think that even though we're talking about it, and it's 23 00:01:10.010 --> 00:01:12.110 really exciting. Bitcoins going up and you're like, oh, man, 24 00:01:12.110 --> 00:01:15.230 should I buy anything? This is not like financial advice. 25 00:01:15.590 --> 00:01:17.270 Probably hold off. 26 00:01:17.660 --> 00:01:20.780 Johny Fernandez: So for someone that may think like that, that, 27 00:01:20.810 --> 00:01:22.850 they're looking at it. They're like, oh, man, like this may be 28 00:01:22.850 --> 00:01:26.300 the time to do it. What would be your advice? Obviously, you just 29 00:01:26.300 --> 00:01:29.900 said, don't do it now. But when should they jump in? If they if 30 00:01:29.900 --> 00:01:30.560 they want to? 31 00:01:30.630 --> 00:01:34.500 Sean Murray: Yeah, you know, I don't like to time markets. And 32 00:01:34.530 --> 00:01:38.370 I hate investing on like a speculation standpoint. But 33 00:01:38.370 --> 00:01:42.150 right now, it'd be the worst time ever, to buy bitcoin? I 34 00:01:42.150 --> 00:01:45.210 think the price is going to go down. I think the price is being 35 00:01:45.210 --> 00:01:49.950 artificially inflated right now through from a, from various 36 00:01:50.100 --> 00:01:55.590 sources that I won't get into. But I think it's an artificial 37 00:01:55.590 --> 00:01:59.340 market. And so in terms of when should you buy into Bitcoin? 38 00:01:59.370 --> 00:02:03.420 I've never really been a fan of Bitcoin, as far as buy it, for 39 00:02:03.420 --> 00:02:06.480 it to go up in value and make money. I've always looked at it 40 00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:10.890 from a utility standpoint. And so if you're looking at it from 41 00:02:10.890 --> 00:02:13.230 an investment standpoint, you probably want to wait until it's 42 00:02:13.230 --> 00:02:18.840 like $5,000 again, to think about it. I think Bitcoin has a 43 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:22.710 place in the world. But if you're gonna buy it, right, when 44 00:02:22.710 --> 00:02:25.950 it's going up, like really quickly, that's the worst time 45 00:02:25.950 --> 00:02:30.600 to buy, buy at buy after that, buy in the crash period, not 46 00:02:30.600 --> 00:02:31.800 during the Bull Run period. 47 00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:31.930 Johny Fernandez: So let me ask you this. I know like last time 48 00:02:31.930 --> 00:02:33.010 that we talked about it, previous segment, we talked 49 00:02:33.010 --> 00:02:34.120 about, like these big conventions and people gathering 50 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:35.740 and just like this obsession with it. Now obviously 51 00:02:36.820 --> 00:02:39.490 Coronavirus is in the middle of everything. Are people gathering 52 00:02:39.580 --> 00:02:48.790 like via have you heard of people like these gatherings via 53 00:02:48.790 --> 00:02:53.140 zoom? Or I guess, is there this pandemonium with it? Or is it 54 00:02:53.140 --> 00:02:56.230 simply just going up and people are kind of just observing it 55 00:02:56.230 --> 00:02:56.950 from afar? 56 00:02:58.430 --> 00:03:02.300 Sean Murray: I can tell you that during the 2017 like bull 57 00:03:02.300 --> 00:03:05.750 market, not only were people meeting up in person and talking 58 00:03:05.750 --> 00:03:08.930 about it, but they were doing it in groups online. Those groups 59 00:03:08.930 --> 00:03:13.460 online are still pretty much dormant. So even the online 60 00:03:13.460 --> 00:03:16.460 groups haven't really come back. You have a lot of people talking 61 00:03:16.460 --> 00:03:19.400 about crypto on Twitter, that seems to be like the number one 62 00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:25.490 place for crypto fans. Perhaps they're in like telegram. But 63 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:29.210 you're not really seeing zoom calls about Bitcoin. I haven't 64 00:03:29.210 --> 00:03:32.090 been invited to any. I haven't heard of any. Maybe there's some 65 00:03:32.090 --> 00:03:37.280 happening out there. But in terms of has the in person 66 00:03:37.280 --> 00:03:40.550 experience of the crypto community gone digital? I don't 67 00:03:40.550 --> 00:03:43.010 think any more so than three years ago. 68 00:03:44.300 --> 00:03:47.060 Johny Fernandez: So in other Bitcoin news, let's talk about 69 00:03:47.090 --> 00:03:50.540 the news between PayPal and Square kind of walk us through 70 00:03:50.660 --> 00:03:51.770 what's going on with that. 71 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:54.720 Sean Murray: Yeah, so there are good things happening in the 72 00:03:54.720 --> 00:03:55.860 Bitcoin world right now. It's not just this artificially 73 00:03:55.860 --> 00:03:56.850 inflated market caused by nothing, there are things 74 00:03:56.850 --> 00:04:00.000 happening that could warrant an increase in the price of 75 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:08.310 Bitcoin. One is that PayPal recently activated the ability 76 00:04:08.310 --> 00:04:13.530 to hold crypto, hold Bitcoin. So before if you wanted to use 77 00:04:14.190 --> 00:04:17.160 Bitcoin, you had to use like the Cash App, you had to go into 78 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:20.250 Coinbase you had to go into some shady exchange, you needed your 79 00:04:20.250 --> 00:04:23.340 own personal wallet app, and you don't know if you're gonna get 80 00:04:23.340 --> 00:04:25.650 hacked, right? You don't know if that if the wallet has like a 81 00:04:25.650 --> 00:04:29.790 backdoor built into it. But now you can actually hold Bitcoin in 82 00:04:29.790 --> 00:04:33.420 your regular paypal account. And I think that's a reason that 83 00:04:34.620 --> 00:04:37.500 Bitcoin could be going up in value. I don't think as much as 84 00:04:37.500 --> 00:04:39.210 it's gone up in value, I don't think it's all caused by that. 85 00:04:39.210 --> 00:04:41.700 But in terms of like, is there any excitement around Bitcoin? 86 00:04:41.940 --> 00:04:46.740 Could be could be that and then you have Square, which they own 87 00:04:46.740 --> 00:04:48.300 Cash App. Do you have Cash App? 88 00:04:48.330 --> 00:04:49.680 Johny Fernandez: I have Cash App, I do. Yeah. 89 00:04:49.950 --> 00:04:52.020 Sean Murray: Do you see a Bitcoin, like option, in there 90 00:04:52.020 --> 00:04:52.380 at all? 91 00:04:52.440 --> 00:04:53.850 Johny Fernandez: I haven't used it in a couple of weeks. 92 00:04:53.880 --> 00:04:55.680 Sean Murray: Okay, I've never I've never used it. 93 00:04:55.680 --> 00:04:57.850 Johny Fernandez: Okay, I have Cash App, I have PayPal then I 94 00:04:57.850 --> 00:05:01.870 have Venmo so I have all three, but I do know that for Bitcoin 95 00:05:01.870 --> 00:05:04.480 that the it came up for for PayPal. 96 00:05:04.930 --> 00:05:07.540 Sean Murray: It came up with PayPal. Yeah. So. So oh you've 97 00:05:07.540 --> 00:05:09.760 seen it on there? Yeah. You know, I actually haven't logged 98 00:05:09.760 --> 00:05:14.350 into my PayPal account since the news. But Square in particular, 99 00:05:14.500 --> 00:05:17.590 they actually reported that you know, Square. Yeah. Right owned 100 00:05:17.590 --> 00:05:21.910 by Jack Dorsey, owns Twitter. And they're a gigantic payment 101 00:05:21.910 --> 00:05:26.980 processor 50% of Square's profit comes from Bitcoin transactions 102 00:05:26.980 --> 00:05:27.340 now. 103 00:05:28.360 --> 00:05:30.160 Johny Fernandez: So people are pretty much using the Bitcoin, 104 00:05:30.190 --> 00:05:32.890 what they have for Bitcoin, and paying out. 105 00:05:32.890 --> 00:05:33.740 Sean Murray: its transaction fee is I think they're like charging 106 00:05:33.740 --> 00:05:40.400 you to buy it charging you to use it. And that's 50% of their 107 00:05:40.400 --> 00:05:43.400 profit now. They're not they're not making money off of it going 108 00:05:43.400 --> 00:05:47.270 up. Yeah. Well, in a way they are because they bought $50 109 00:05:47.270 --> 00:05:49.520 million worth of bitcoin recently. Did you hear about 110 00:05:49.520 --> 00:05:52.520 that? I did not hear about that. Square the company bought $50 111 00:05:52.520 --> 00:05:55.580 million worth of Bitcoin to put on their balance sheet. And from 112 00:05:55.580 --> 00:05:58.430 what I understand the value of those Bitcoin have recently got 113 00:05:58.430 --> 00:06:02.870 up to about $84 million. So they are making money on Bitcoin, the 114 00:06:02.870 --> 00:06:06.710 price or value of Bitcoin going up. But that's not a business. 115 00:06:06.740 --> 00:06:09.590 Yeah. Right. I think they were doing that to draw attention to 116 00:06:09.590 --> 00:06:13.010 Cash App. It's a publicity stunt. Why buy $50 million worth 117 00:06:13.010 --> 00:06:15.530 of Bitcoin? Because everyone talks about it. And it's like, 118 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:16.910 oh, what does you know, what does Square have to do with 119 00:06:16.910 --> 00:06:19.610 Bitcoin? Or you can use it on the Cash App. And then it just. 120 00:06:19.850 --> 00:06:22.190 And then they did that 50% of their money is coming from 121 00:06:22.190 --> 00:06:24.440 Bitcoin transactions. So obviously, it's in their 122 00:06:24.440 --> 00:06:26.090 interest to do it from a marketing standpoint. 123 00:06:26.300 --> 00:06:29.570 Johny Fernandez: So obviously, Bitcoin, it's a hot topic. Let's 124 00:06:29.570 --> 00:06:32.690 talk about if have you used it in the past, personally, like, 125 00:06:32.690 --> 00:06:35.960 do you have it? And what's been your experience with it? I mean, 126 00:06:35.960 --> 00:06:39.500 it's something that is popular. So I know, I've had friends very 127 00:06:39.500 --> 00:06:42.560 close friends that they were going crazy in 2017, during the 128 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:45.440 high of it, and they were just like, on their phone like 24/7 129 00:06:45.440 --> 00:06:49.340 just constantly checking to see and it was it's like the stock 130 00:06:49.340 --> 00:06:51.650 market, like they treated like it was like the stock market, 131 00:06:51.650 --> 00:06:55.160 like making sure everything was going up, and they got too 132 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:56.690 excited. They're like we're gonna be rich. We're gonna be 133 00:06:56.690 --> 00:07:00.920 millionaires and like, you know, by the world. And then it 134 00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:02.420 crashed, and then it's like. 135 00:07:03.410 --> 00:07:04.370 Sean Murray: We're you one of those people? 136 00:07:04.370 --> 00:07:08.540 Johny Fernandez: I was not, I looked into, oh, maybe I was 137 00:07:08.570 --> 00:07:11.990 because I was like, you know, I didn't really understand it 138 00:07:12.020 --> 00:07:15.020 completely back then. Like what it meant, and I was like, you 139 00:07:15.020 --> 00:07:18.020 know what, like, this seems kind of sketchy. But a lot of my 140 00:07:18.020 --> 00:07:20.600 buddies swore by it. They were like, dead set on it. 141 00:07:20.750 --> 00:07:23.570 Sean Murray: Yeah. So. You know, the fundamentals of Bitcoin 142 00:07:23.570 --> 00:07:27.350 haven't changed. So if you're down, if you were really bullish 143 00:07:27.350 --> 00:07:30.860 about Bitcoin before, and you're down on it now, it's probably 144 00:07:30.860 --> 00:07:34.280 because you only cared about the price going up. And you probably 145 00:07:34.280 --> 00:07:36.800 didn't really truly appreciate the underlying utility of 146 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:40.070 Bitcoin, which is the ability to move money without government 147 00:07:40.070 --> 00:07:43.370 interference. For me, that's the whole point of Bitcoin, you can 148 00:07:43.370 --> 00:07:45.740 send your money to anywhere in the world, and nobody can stop 149 00:07:45.740 --> 00:07:49.190 you. Right? You can take possession of your money, and no 150 00:07:49.190 --> 00:07:51.470 government can seize it, depending on how you store it, 151 00:07:51.500 --> 00:07:54.110 right? If you store it on like Coinbase, or you store it on 152 00:07:54.110 --> 00:07:58.070 PayPal, and the FBI wants that Bitcoin, they can probably get 153 00:07:58.070 --> 00:08:01.400 it. But if you store like on a USB, and no one knows what that 154 00:08:01.400 --> 00:08:05.870 USB is, or even better, you you actually turn the you take your 155 00:08:05.870 --> 00:08:07.820 private key and don't even have it digital, you just have an 156 00:08:07.820 --> 00:08:09.800 actual written out private key and no one knows where that 157 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:12.770 piece of paper is. Then no one's going to take your Bitcoin from 158 00:08:12.770 --> 00:08:17.060 you. And so as far as whether or not I had Bitcoin, I have a 159 00:08:17.060 --> 00:08:22.460 little bit of Bitcoin. I have half of one Bitcoin. And this is 160 00:08:22.460 --> 00:08:25.040 a holdover from like, a long time ago, like you were 161 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:27.680 mentioning, like the whole 2017 and checking the price every 162 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:28.160 day. 163 00:08:28.400 --> 00:08:30.890 Johny Fernandez: It was serious. It was literally, like they were 164 00:08:30.890 --> 00:08:34.220 like, they would stop their car. Yeah. If something was to go 165 00:08:34.220 --> 00:08:35.210 down like it would. 166 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:38.810 Sean Murray: Yeah, you know, if you're investing in something 167 00:08:38.810 --> 00:08:40.970 where you have to check it every five minutes. Yeah. It's 168 00:08:40.970 --> 00:08:44.480 destined to fail, it's gonna it's gonna blow up, you're gonna 169 00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:47.510 lose money on it eventually, right? If you don't sell, it's 170 00:08:47.510 --> 00:08:51.920 not gonna go up forever. I started getting bitcoins way 171 00:08:51.920 --> 00:08:55.430 before that, like 2014. That's not like the very, very, very 172 00:08:55.430 --> 00:08:58.130 beginning of Bitcoin. But that's way before most people had heard 173 00:08:58.130 --> 00:08:58.430 of it. 174 00:08:58.460 --> 00:08:59.480 Johny Fernandez: How'd you hear about it? 175 00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:01.595 Sean Murray: Probably because, you know, we publish things 176 00:09:01.652 --> 00:09:05.343 about alternative finance. And I think the concept came up a few 177 00:09:05.401 --> 00:09:08.861 times. And at first, I just wrote it off as a possible scam, 178 00:09:08.919 --> 00:09:12.264 to be honest with you, right? And then someone's like, no, 179 00:09:12.321 --> 00:09:15.781 check it out. Look how it works. And I was like, wow, that's 180 00:09:15.781 --> 00:09:15.839 So looking at that now, and looking at it, you know, from 181 00:09:15.839 --> 00:09:18.896 really, really, really interesting. Not because like, 182 00:09:18.953 --> 00:09:22.586 well, this could be worth a lot of money someday, but because I 183 00:09:22.644 --> 00:09:26.047 could actually have money and send it somewhere or bring it 184 00:09:26.104 --> 00:09:29.680 with me and that nobody could take it from it. Right, and that 185 00:09:29.738 --> 00:09:32.679 there was no centralized control. It was completely 186 00:09:32.736 --> 00:09:36.139 decentralized and was governed by map. It's a whole, it's a 187 00:09:36.197 --> 00:09:39.714 whole big thing. Yeah. But once I learned about it, I said oh 188 00:09:39.772 --> 00:09:43.232 this is pretty cool. And we actually had on our site, we had 189 00:09:43.290 --> 00:09:46.693 an advertiser paying us in Bitcoin. And we still I actually 190 00:09:46.750 --> 00:09:49.922 have on our invoices to this day, we have a credit card 191 00:09:49.980 --> 00:09:53.498 option, an ACH payment option. We have a Bitcoin option. It's 192 00:09:53.555 --> 00:09:57.073 been there honestly, since 2014, and only one person has ever 193 00:09:57.131 --> 00:10:00.706 done it, and they haven't done it since, like 2015. But we had 194 00:10:00.706 --> 00:10:00.764 back then, and knowing what you know, now knowing everything 195 00:10:00.764 --> 00:10:04.109 somebody paying us in Bitcoin. And the thing was, who paid 196 00:10:04.109 --> 00:10:04.820 that it went through, and then seeing this go up, do you think 197 00:10:04.820 --> 00:10:07.800 Bitcoin and I would immediately convert it into cash. Okay. And 198 00:10:07.857 --> 00:10:11.029 people would say, well that means you didn't believe in 199 00:10:11.087 --> 00:10:14.432 Bitcoin. No, I did believe in Bitcoin. I didn't believe in 200 00:10:14.489 --> 00:10:18.065 holding it just so it would go up, I believe in the utility of 201 00:10:18.123 --> 00:10:21.467 Bitcoin. But Bitcoin is not useful if no one else is using 202 00:10:21.525 --> 00:10:25.043 Bitcoin. So if I hold a lot of Bitcoin, I can't use it to pay 203 00:10:25.101 --> 00:10:28.676 my vendors, then it doesn't do me any good. Yeah. So you know, 204 00:10:28.734 --> 00:10:31.848 the company obviously had expenses, they couldn't just 205 00:10:31.906 --> 00:10:35.481 mass Bitcoin. Yeah. Especially when I'm not holding it for the 206 00:10:35.539 --> 00:10:39.172 purpose of it going up. Yeah. So I would take the Bitcoin and I 207 00:10:39.230 --> 00:10:42.575 would immediately sell it. And it wasn't until 2017 that I 208 00:10:42.575 --> 00:10:42.632 that would ever be a possibility, again, to have that 209 00:10:42.632 --> 00:10:46.323 started to think about how many bitcoins I had. Yeah. Back then. 210 00:10:46.381 --> 00:10:49.553 And end of 2017, the price of Bitcoin went up to almost 211 00:10:49.610 --> 00:10:52.609 $20,000 per Bitcoin. And I started looking at my old 212 00:10:52.667 --> 00:10:56.358 transactions from back in 2015, how much was a Bitcoin back then 213 00:10:56.415 --> 00:10:59.876 it was like 300 bucks. For one for one, right? I was selling 214 00:10:59.933 --> 00:11:03.451 Bitcoins for 300 hours. And so I started counting up how many 215 00:11:03.509 --> 00:11:07.084 Bitcoins that I have total. Now, I didn't sell them all off at 216 00:11:07.142 --> 00:11:10.372 once. So selling them all piecemeal, as they were coming 217 00:11:10.429 --> 00:11:14.120 in. Yeah. Well, let's say never saw them, I just hold on to them 218 00:11:14.178 --> 00:11:17.696 thats only $300 in Bitcoin, you know, I didn't really need to 219 00:11:17.753 --> 00:11:21.329 sell it. Yeah. I could have just held on to them. And if I had 220 00:11:21.386 --> 00:11:24.962 held on to all those bitcoins and never sold them, at the peak 221 00:11:25.020 --> 00:11:27.500 of 2017, I would have had $1 million worth. 222 00:11:45.620 --> 00:11:49.880 type of money in Bitcoin? So I mean. But it's tricky, because 223 00:11:49.880 --> 00:11:51.890 it's everything's going up and down, and, and. 224 00:11:51.890 --> 00:11:55.110 Is it possible for me to have a million dollars worth of Bitcoin 225 00:11:55.140 --> 00:11:58.920 again? Or just. Just in general? So I mean, the price is back up 226 00:11:58.920 --> 00:12:03.570 to $18,000. So we're close to the all time high, right? But 227 00:12:03.570 --> 00:12:05.820 the problem is, it's in the market that nobody's talking 228 00:12:05.820 --> 00:12:10.980 about it. So who's making them price go up? It's not everyone 229 00:12:10.980 --> 00:12:14.010 we know. Yeah. It seemed like it was last time because everyone 230 00:12:14.010 --> 00:12:17.490 we knew was getting into it. Yeah. I look at it like this, 231 00:12:17.490 --> 00:12:22.980 right? There's only 21 million Bitcoin ever, there's a cap on 232 00:12:22.980 --> 00:12:26.940 the amount of Bitcoin that there are. And there's actually less 233 00:12:26.940 --> 00:12:29.820 than that. Because if you lost your private key that Bitcoin 234 00:12:29.820 --> 00:12:33.450 can never be used ever again. Okay. So think about it, there 235 00:12:33.450 --> 00:12:37.620 were only $21 million in the entire world. And you had one of 236 00:12:37.620 --> 00:12:42.210 them. You'd be worth way more than a millionaire. Yeah. Right. 237 00:12:42.750 --> 00:12:47.610 So in terms of, could it get up? Could you become a millionaire 238 00:12:47.640 --> 00:12:53.280 by holding Bitcoin? I think, very possible. I think that's a 239 00:12:53.280 --> 00:12:56.580 terrible way to look at Bitcoin. Yeah. But I think you could I 240 00:12:56.580 --> 00:13:01.770 think if, and this is why some people hold on to Bitcoin that 241 00:13:01.770 --> 00:13:06.060 think about what happens if the US dollar collapses? What are 242 00:13:06.060 --> 00:13:09.030 you gonna do? It's the reserve currency of the world. It could 243 00:13:09.030 --> 00:13:11.820 be a period of time, could be a freak event, could be a 244 00:13:11.820 --> 00:13:14.580 pandemic, twice as twice, three times as deadly as the one we 245 00:13:14.580 --> 00:13:17.190 have now. And all of a sudden, people are like, they can't get 246 00:13:17.190 --> 00:13:20.370 into Euros easily. And then people are like wait, the Euro 247 00:13:20.370 --> 00:13:22.950 is also tied to the dollar. So all the all the currencies are 248 00:13:22.950 --> 00:13:26.610 kind of collapsing at once, right? All of a sudden, you have 249 00:13:26.640 --> 00:13:29.370 Bitcoin, which has a fixed supply, nobody can inflate, 250 00:13:29.370 --> 00:13:32.340 nobody can print more of it. Yeah. And temporarily becomes a 251 00:13:32.340 --> 00:13:35.160 currency that people use until everything gets under control. 252 00:13:35.520 --> 00:13:37.950 And there's only 21 million in the world one bitcoin could be 253 00:13:37.950 --> 00:13:42.150 worth the equivalent of like $50 million or something. You could 254 00:13:42.150 --> 00:13:45.870 be all of a sudden extremely, extremely wealthy, just if you 255 00:13:45.870 --> 00:13:50.400 have one. Just one. So if you're going to invest in Bitcoin, look 256 00:13:50.400 --> 00:13:53.550 at it from like a moonshot perspective, take money you 257 00:13:53.550 --> 00:13:57.570 don't care about, hold on to it, put it on the side. And one day 258 00:13:57.570 --> 00:13:59.850 the whole world collapses you can be one of the richest people 259 00:13:59.850 --> 00:14:00.240 on earth. 260 00:14:00.990 --> 00:14:04.170 Johny Fernandez: That's wild. So speaking about that, let's let's 261 00:14:04.170 --> 00:14:07.710 jump into the Bitcoin Center. I know we we did a couple pieces 262 00:14:07.710 --> 00:14:10.560 with them. So walk me through. I mean, that experience and just 263 00:14:10.560 --> 00:14:11.640 like the center itself. 264 00:14:11.660 --> 00:14:15.200 Sean Murray: Yeah. So um, I first went to the Bitcoin 265 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:21.740 Center, the original one on Broad Street back in 2014. And 266 00:14:22.160 --> 00:14:27.590 it was kind of like, a dark, mysterious place with a lot of 267 00:14:27.590 --> 00:14:30.320 strange people. Okay. Into Bitcoin for a lot of different 268 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:34.370 reasons. Now you have to remember this is 2014. Early 269 00:14:34.370 --> 00:14:37.220 days. Okay. So the only people who are like super passionate 270 00:14:37.220 --> 00:14:39.740 about it are probably weird people consider myself weird. 271 00:14:39.740 --> 00:14:47.030 That's why I was into it. And it had its own character and you 272 00:14:47.030 --> 00:14:50.360 could go there, they usually had open bars, and you had to. At 273 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:52.490 the center? At the center and you didn't pay anything to get 274 00:14:52.490 --> 00:14:57.410 in. Okay. You just went in, it was basically like, very, like a 275 00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:00.110 weird anonymous type setting. Okay. Like you had to fill got 276 00:15:00.110 --> 00:15:02.180 your name on a sheet of paper, but a lot of people would put a 277 00:15:02.180 --> 00:15:05.300 fake name, open bar. And then you'd have to sit through a 278 00:15:05.300 --> 00:15:07.790 presentation. And then they would actually do trading, 279 00:15:07.820 --> 00:15:10.550 bitcoin trading. And so you take people who had Bitcoin, and you 280 00:15:10.550 --> 00:15:13.850 take people who have cash, for whatever reason, I'm not going 281 00:15:13.850 --> 00:15:16.760 to go into why they wanted to do the deal. And they didn't want 282 00:15:16.760 --> 00:15:20.180 to do it online. But some people wanted Bitcoin transferred to 283 00:15:20.180 --> 00:15:23.390 them directly, where there was no trail of it through like an 284 00:15:23.390 --> 00:15:25.910 exchange. And so you had people that it was selling Bitcoin to 285 00:15:25.910 --> 00:15:28.430 other people in person, all happening in this room, there 286 00:15:28.430 --> 00:15:30.800 was like a trading bell. You had all these people like 287 00:15:30.800 --> 00:15:35.270 negotiating prices, it was crazy. That's wild. So that was 288 00:15:35.270 --> 00:15:38.480 the Bitcoin Center back. Now, it's called the Blockchain 289 00:15:38.510 --> 00:15:42.560 Center. And it's actually on the Upper West Side. And we just had 290 00:15:42.590 --> 00:15:46.010 a another reporter, Kevin Travers go up there. And he 291 00:15:46.010 --> 00:15:47.840 interviewed a few people, we actually interviewed the 292 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:54.200 director, Adam Gensberg, and it's not what it was, you know, 293 00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:56.810 from back in the day, you know, Bitcoin is a lot more 294 00:15:56.810 --> 00:16:01.130 mainstream. But there still is a Bitcoin Center or a blockchain 295 00:16:01.130 --> 00:16:01.450 Johny Fernandez: That's interesting. It sounds like it 296 00:16:01.450 --> 00:16:01.880 center now. 297 00:16:05.770 --> 00:16:09.790 was an experience back then, for sure. But it's like you said, 298 00:16:09.790 --> 00:16:13.240 its own world at that point, like at this point, like, you 299 00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:18.700 know, it's tough to see that. So I know we talked about it acorn 300 00:16:18.700 --> 00:16:23.650 Robinhood. Let's talk a little bit about like, those that way 301 00:16:23.650 --> 00:16:28.420 of investing and making money versus Bitcoin itself? Because I 302 00:16:28.420 --> 00:16:30.670 know that's something that people are always asking like, 303 00:16:30.700 --> 00:16:32.440 oh, like, what do you think about like, their opinions on 304 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:35.560 like acorns versus Robin Hood versus Bitcoin, then there's so 305 00:16:35.560 --> 00:16:38.980 many alternative ways to kind of invest now. So. 306 00:16:39.070 --> 00:16:40.660 Sean Murray: Yeah, well, you know, what's interesting about 307 00:16:40.690 --> 00:16:45.880 Robin Hood is that it's just, it's really just front facing 308 00:16:45.880 --> 00:16:51.850 software for traditional securities trading. Right? Yeah. 309 00:16:51.850 --> 00:16:56.110 Just buy stocks. Yeah. Options. So it's not like a new way to 310 00:16:56.110 --> 00:17:01.900 invest. It's more of a more Gen Z, slash younger, millennial 311 00:17:01.960 --> 00:17:09.310 friendly way of investing. It's an app on your phone. Honestly, 312 00:17:09.310 --> 00:17:13.810 it feels a little bit like the Bitcoin crowd. Who were really 313 00:17:13.810 --> 00:17:14.320 into it. 314 00:17:14.350 --> 00:17:15.370 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, I could see that. 315 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:20.230 Sean Murray: So there was like a, there was always a thing. 316 00:17:20.500 --> 00:17:22.540 Yeah. A certain point in time, but everyone kind of rallies 317 00:17:22.540 --> 00:17:26.890 around. And before it was Bitcoin. There was a time when 318 00:17:26.890 --> 00:17:30.370 it was like online poker. Okay. Everyone was obsessed with 319 00:17:30.370 --> 00:17:35.320 online poker. Right? And online gambling was the future. And 320 00:17:36.790 --> 00:17:37.270 seriously. 321 00:17:37.270 --> 00:17:39.910 Johny Fernandez: It's funny cause you say you hear you hear 322 00:17:39.910 --> 00:17:41.920 that? Every 10 years, like this is the future. 323 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:44.740 Sean Murray: And ou have of these young 20 Somethings and 324 00:17:44.740 --> 00:17:46.570 like this, is that yeah. And they're like, Oh, this is 325 00:17:46.570 --> 00:17:48.070 totally you know, this is where you're gonna make all your 326 00:17:48.070 --> 00:17:50.170 money. This is the future. And it was I was honestly with 327 00:17:50.200 --> 00:17:53.620 online poker for a while. And then there was something in 328 00:17:53.620 --> 00:17:55.780 between, but I wasn't paying attention. And then also it was 329 00:17:55.810 --> 00:17:59.170 it was crypto. Yeah. Right. That yeah. And everyone's into 330 00:17:59.170 --> 00:18:02.290 crypto. Yeah. And all the different coins and it's the 331 00:18:02.290 --> 00:18:05.410 future. And that's how you get rich. And then all of a sudden, 332 00:18:05.410 --> 00:18:09.460 people got people got burned on crypto, prices went down, the 333 00:18:09.460 --> 00:18:15.190 rally ended. And I feel like this whole securities trading 334 00:18:15.670 --> 00:18:20.650 very old fashioned thing, but made fresh through apps. Yeah. 335 00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:24.280 Is kind of the new glue. Yeah. I feel like the same type of 336 00:18:24.280 --> 00:18:28.150 crypto enthusiasm is kind of being adopted by like the Robin 337 00:18:28.150 --> 00:18:32.080 Hood crowd. I could see that. I personally have never used Robin 338 00:18:32.080 --> 00:18:34.810 Hood. I don't I don't trade in any individual stocks of 339 00:18:34.810 --> 00:18:39.070 securities. Except for, you know, mutual funds. Yeah. But 340 00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:43.270 you know, a lot of people are using it, for sure. You were 341 00:18:43.270 --> 00:18:46.000 mentioning something about acorn early. Yeah, I use acorn. How 342 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:46.780 does that even work? 343 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:49.390 Johny Fernandez: So I mean, pretty much they hold on to 344 00:18:49.390 --> 00:18:52.060 money, they let you link it to your debit card, or they'll take 345 00:18:52.060 --> 00:18:54.130 out money from your bank account. And then from there, 346 00:18:54.490 --> 00:18:57.850 you have money saved to grow your acorn grow your tree, 347 00:18:58.300 --> 00:19:02.290 because you start with like $1, $2, $5. And now you know, you 348 00:19:02.290 --> 00:19:04.930 get into like the hundreds and then the 1000s. And pretty much 349 00:19:04.930 --> 00:19:09.100 use that money and invest from within what the acorn had like 350 00:19:09.100 --> 00:19:12.010 the options and it's pretty safe. I mean, for the most part, 351 00:19:12.040 --> 00:19:16.990 and you're right, it is more like a Gen Z millennial thing, 352 00:19:16.990 --> 00:19:19.570 because I know a lot of my friends, they use it. And they 353 00:19:19.570 --> 00:19:21.820 were the ones that told me about it. I was like, oh, like that's, 354 00:19:21.970 --> 00:19:23.740 that's interesting. And it's easy. Because everything's on 355 00:19:23.740 --> 00:19:26.170 your phone at this point, like you do everything on your phone, 356 00:19:26.320 --> 00:19:29.920 you log in, you log on, and you can do everything and they help 357 00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:33.490 you take care of most the, all the hard things like looking for 358 00:19:33.490 --> 00:19:37.000 like, you know what companies to invest in, and then like making 359 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:38.740 sure they give you your money and things like that. 360 00:19:38.740 --> 00:19:41.320 Sean Murray: So is it more of a saving, from your perspective, a 361 00:19:41.320 --> 00:19:43.540 savings app or an investing app? 362 00:19:43.840 --> 00:19:45.640 Johny Fernandez: It's both because you can save money like 363 00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:48.730 I haven't really done much investing, because I'm like, 364 00:19:48.730 --> 00:19:51.040 alright, like I still want to see how much money I can 365 00:19:51.040 --> 00:19:54.100 actually get on there. But then they also give you the options 366 00:19:54.100 --> 00:19:57.280 to invest from within, you know, the acorns app. 367 00:19:57.790 --> 00:19:59.890 Sean Murray: Okay. Are you investing into like individuals 368 00:19:59.890 --> 00:20:00.700 stocks on there? 369 00:20:01.210 --> 00:20:03.340 Johny Fernandez: Not like individual stocks or like just 370 00:20:03.340 --> 00:20:06.280 like new like let's say like Nike comes out with like a new 371 00:20:06.700 --> 00:20:09.010 product or whatever like they'll kind of give you a heads up and 372 00:20:09.010 --> 00:20:12.040 then like they'll. They give you a heads up? Yeah, well. Inside 373 00:20:12.040 --> 00:20:20.470 your trading app? I gotta get into this. For $5 I mean, you 374 00:20:20.500 --> 00:20:23.230 can have your little bank account and they'll give you a 375 00:20:23.230 --> 00:20:25.390 heads up on stuff so it's. 376 00:20:25.420 --> 00:20:28.060 Sean Murray: I'm gonna get acorn now. Yeah. I'm sold, they even 377 00:20:28.120 --> 00:20:32.140 tell you the news before comes out. And you can trade on the 378 00:20:32.140 --> 00:20:32.920 insider info. 379 00:20:33.670 --> 00:20:35.680 Johny Fernandez: And then you become a millionaire that way. 380 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:44.260 Forget big forget Bitcoin cryptocurrency. So let's talk 381 00:20:44.260 --> 00:20:46.900 about the new administration. I mean, that's big news last year, 382 00:20:46.930 --> 00:20:50.890 have been hectic. And obviously for the industry, for Bitcoin 383 00:20:50.890 --> 00:20:53.440 for everything like the administration President like 384 00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:57.040 Biden and Kamala Harris. So what exactly do you think it means 385 00:20:57.040 --> 00:21:01.300 for the industry in general? And, you know, for just our 386 00:21:01.300 --> 00:21:03.880 industry, the news, what's going on within our industry? 387 00:21:04.020 --> 00:21:07.410 Sean Murray: Yeah. It's funny that you mentioned Harris, when 388 00:21:07.410 --> 00:21:10.590 you mentioned Biden. Yeah. Because they feel when a new 389 00:21:10.590 --> 00:21:14.790 president is coming in. People forget about the VP. But it 390 00:21:14.790 --> 00:21:18.990 seems to be this kind of like subconscious understanding. 391 00:21:19.080 --> 00:21:24.240 Yeah. That she may need to step in. Yeah. This is truly a Biden. 392 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:27.960 Harris. Yeah. Administration, whereas pence to Trump, Pence 393 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:32.190 was a guy who would come out and give a speech. Every now and 394 00:21:32.190 --> 00:21:35.430 than, we didn't look at it as a Trump Pence, administration. 395 00:21:35.430 --> 00:21:38.520 Atleast i didn't I. Yeah. It was it was the Trump administration. 396 00:21:38.760 --> 00:21:41.340 Johny Fernandez: And even if we look back during like Obama, and 397 00:21:41.790 --> 00:21:46.500 during Biden, like it was an Obama Biden, it was Obama cause. 398 00:21:46.500 --> 00:21:49.390 Yeah. Did you yeah was it, or you know what Biden play a huge 399 00:21:49.390 --> 00:21:51.970 role in that administration? No. No, I don't think so. 400 00:21:53.170 --> 00:21:55.270 He was a guy that came out gave his speech, did his part of the 401 00:21:55.270 --> 00:21:57.400 job. And then he'd go home but. 402 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:00.820 Sean Murray: Yeah, so you know, you kind of you kind of said it 403 00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:03.160 in a way that everyone is talking about not to minimize 404 00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:08.620 the position of VP. People are kind of operating under the 405 00:22:08.620 --> 00:22:13.150 assumption that she could play an increased role, you know, 406 00:22:13.750 --> 00:22:17.440 maybe even a majority role at some point. But as far as what 407 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:24.430 does it mean, policy wise? People say, well, it's too early 408 00:22:24.430 --> 00:22:27.910 to call because the Georgia Senate race hasn't been decided. 409 00:22:27.940 --> 00:22:32.920 And I think that matters from a legislative standpoint, because 410 00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:35.680 if the Republicans continue to control the Senate, then you run 411 00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:39.280 into a situation where they can't pass legislation. 412 00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:42.760 Democrats can't pass legislation that they really really want. 413 00:22:42.790 --> 00:22:45.520 Yeah. Republicans really, really don't want right. Yeah. Well, 414 00:22:45.520 --> 00:22:51.730 there's more to it than than just legislation. There's also 415 00:22:51.730 --> 00:22:55.780 regulation, right, you don't need to pass a new a new law to 416 00:22:55.780 --> 00:22:59.800 enforce existing laws. And so that's the that's the real thing 417 00:22:59.800 --> 00:23:05.620 to look at here is what did the new administration mean, from a 418 00:23:05.620 --> 00:23:10.540 regulatory standpoint? And you say, well, Biden, you know, he's 419 00:23:10.570 --> 00:23:13.720 maybe like, a, he's more of a moderate or something. Right? 420 00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:17.680 Yeah. It really doesn't matter what Biden the person stands 421 00:23:17.710 --> 00:23:21.910 for. Right. It's the people around him. Right. It's 422 00:23:21.930 --> 00:23:22.620 Johny Fernandez: His team. 423 00:23:22.620 --> 00:23:25.374 Sean Murray: His whole team and it reaches nationwide. Yeah. 424 00:23:25.446 --> 00:23:29.538 It's who he appoints. And, you know, sometimes the to his 425 00:23:29.610 --> 00:23:33.631 advisors suggest he appoint he doesn't know every single 426 00:23:33.703 --> 00:23:38.082 person, right. And so you kind of get kind of just get a tone 427 00:23:38.154 --> 00:23:42.319 set at the top. That's usually how it works, atleast in my 428 00:23:42.390 --> 00:23:46.770 opinion. I'm not a, you know, political commentator, but what 429 00:23:46.842 --> 00:23:50.863 I think it means I think we'll see increased enforcement 430 00:23:50.934 --> 00:23:55.314 activity from agencies like the CFPB, the FTC, things of that 431 00:23:55.386 --> 00:23:59.478 nature. Yeah. I think they'll be more active in enforcing 432 00:23:59.550 --> 00:24:03.068 existing laws, or even be more proactive in their 433 00:24:03.140 --> 00:24:07.735 interpretation of what they can do. Yeah. So that's, that's what 434 00:24:07.807 --> 00:24:12.043 I think it means I think that we will need to be looking at 435 00:24:12.115 --> 00:24:15.490 increased enforcement activity on existing law. 436 00:24:16.380 --> 00:24:19.380 Johny Fernandez: So obviously, another thing that is also 437 00:24:19.380 --> 00:24:25.050 changing is how we've all done life with Coronavirus. So I know 438 00:24:25.050 --> 00:24:27.180 there's been talks and I've had people tell me like, oh, my 439 00:24:27.180 --> 00:24:29.670 gosh, you know, the shutdown is coming down and another shutdown 440 00:24:29.670 --> 00:24:32.850 and obviously, even walking around New York City, there's 441 00:24:32.850 --> 00:24:35.880 this vibe that reminds people of like early March, where it's 442 00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:38.610 just kind of like things are starting to feel different 443 00:24:38.610 --> 00:24:42.090 versus the summer. So let's talk about another shutdown with if 444 00:24:42.120 --> 00:24:45.420 that happens, like how it will impact the industry. 445 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:49.110 Sean Murray: Yeah, so my initial impression was that it was going 446 00:24:49.110 --> 00:24:53.520 to be very, very, very bad economically to have shutdowns 447 00:24:53.850 --> 00:24:57.450 on the scale that we did last time, because we didn't really 448 00:24:58.170 --> 00:25:03.390 recover from that. Yeah. The stock market is up. Yeah. 449 00:25:03.600 --> 00:25:08.070 Unemployment has gone down. But I don't think that a lot of the 450 00:25:08.070 --> 00:25:11.340 rent payments and the mortgage payments have really been caught 451 00:25:11.340 --> 00:25:14.130 up. Yeah. I think people were still behind. Yeah, absolutely. 452 00:25:14.190 --> 00:25:16.620 I think people were still in that that situation of how do we 453 00:25:16.620 --> 00:25:20.190 work out what happened in the past? Right? Do we go on a 454 00:25:20.190 --> 00:25:25.740 payment plan? If they're going to be forgiven? And then to go 455 00:25:25.740 --> 00:25:28.350 into another shutdown, we're just gonna pile on on top of the 456 00:25:28.350 --> 00:25:32.820 previous problem. I think that's a real big issue. So I was 457 00:25:32.850 --> 00:25:35.700 talking to some people within the alternative finance 458 00:25:35.700 --> 00:25:38.610 industry, like, hey, are you worried about shutdowns? Again, 459 00:25:38.670 --> 00:25:42.900 because it devastated the industry before. Yeah. And the 460 00:25:42.900 --> 00:25:48.030 feedback I got was not only are they more prepared to deal with 461 00:25:48.030 --> 00:25:53.010 that, if that happens, what they feel from the handful handful 462 00:25:53.010 --> 00:25:56.640 people I've spoken to, that the business owners are more 463 00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:00.930 prepared, right? Before you had businesses that had no takeout 464 00:26:01.290 --> 00:26:05.130 at all. Till the takeout route. Yeah. Right. But it took a while 465 00:26:05.130 --> 00:26:07.080 to get there. Yep. And and at first, they were like, no, we'll 466 00:26:07.080 --> 00:26:09.630 just wait the two weeks, right. And then two weeks became 467 00:26:09.630 --> 00:26:12.240 months, and they're like we got to do takeout. But they're not 468 00:26:12.270 --> 00:26:14.610 they don't even have a website. Yeah. Or they don't have one 469 00:26:14.610 --> 00:26:18.510 that you can use to order yet, right. And everyone's kind of 470 00:26:18.510 --> 00:26:22.020 gotten that part figured out. And doesn't mean that businesses 471 00:26:22.020 --> 00:26:26.010 won't fail. But the company that finance them feel a little bit 472 00:26:26.010 --> 00:26:29.730 more confident in how business owners will be able to react, if 473 00:26:29.730 --> 00:26:33.090 there is another shutdown, they're kind of hoping that it 474 00:26:33.090 --> 00:26:36.960 won't happen at the scale that it did before. But they're 475 00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:41.490 confident that business owners are more adequately prepared to 476 00:26:41.490 --> 00:26:44.100 do what they have to do this time around. Last time around, 477 00:26:44.580 --> 00:26:46.080 just nobody knew what was happening. 478 00:26:46.080 --> 00:26:48.700 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. No. Well, let me ask you this. Do you 479 00:26:48.700 --> 00:26:51.670 think that obviously, what happened last time, I mean, 480 00:26:51.700 --> 00:26:54.460 we're still going through parts of it, because it's still not 481 00:26:54.460 --> 00:26:58.420 fully over. But like, if there's certain restrictions that come 482 00:26:58.540 --> 00:27:02.530 along, and that it's not a total shutdown. But, you know, it kind 483 00:27:02.530 --> 00:27:06.220 of feels like one. Do you think that you said business owners 484 00:27:06.220 --> 00:27:09.220 are prepared, but do you think that they prepared to live and 485 00:27:09.220 --> 00:27:12.850 run business like this for like, another year or another two 486 00:27:12.850 --> 00:27:15.400 years? Like, because at this point, there's no end date. 487 00:27:15.420 --> 00:27:17.820 Sean Murray: Yeah, I don't know. I don't, no. So I don't think 488 00:27:17.820 --> 00:27:21.780 that long, I think, no way, right? Yeah. I think I was 489 00:27:21.780 --> 00:27:24.210 really talking about a month or two. Yeah. To be honest with 490 00:27:24.210 --> 00:27:28.050 you. If you're an E commerce business. Yeah. Yeah, sure. 491 00:27:28.080 --> 00:27:29.820 Yeah. You can go a year or two. 492 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:31.440 Johny Fernandez: Well, let's talk about that. Like, 493 00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:36.630 obviously, with the E commerce and the threat that's going on 494 00:27:36.630 --> 00:27:40.440 between, in the Merchant Cash Advance and the business lending 495 00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:43.080 industry. So let's like kind of segue into that. 496 00:27:43.080 --> 00:27:47.470 Sean Murray: Yeah. Yeah. So if you're in E commerce, or you 497 00:27:47.470 --> 00:27:51.160 were in E commerce, man, you're in a good spot, right? Because 498 00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:55.690 the whole world went digital. My ninety year old grandma was 499 00:27:55.690 --> 00:27:59.590 talking about ordering her groceries online. Right. These 500 00:27:59.590 --> 00:28:05.170 are things that would never happened. Yeah. And so if you 501 00:28:05.170 --> 00:28:08.290 weren't digital, and you're not digital now, from an E commerce 502 00:28:08.290 --> 00:28:12.310 standpoint, it's very dangerous. Because even though I think 503 00:28:12.310 --> 00:28:15.220 there's some conventional wisdom that people are going to want to 504 00:28:15.220 --> 00:28:20.530 go back to doing everything in person again. Yeah, right. Some 505 00:28:20.530 --> 00:28:25.120 people will continue to use the digital technique, the digital 506 00:28:25.120 --> 00:28:28.390 experience in their everyday life. Yeah. Someone who never 507 00:28:28.390 --> 00:28:32.140 did online grocery shopping, is going to start is going to 508 00:28:32.140 --> 00:28:35.740 continue to use it. Yeah. Then they, then they, if they didn't 509 00:28:35.740 --> 00:28:42.610 before, right? And how that's translated into success for 510 00:28:42.610 --> 00:28:47.800 alternative finance, if your company that's financed 511 00:28:47.830 --> 00:28:51.130 ecommerce businesses, that's been really good for you. Yeah. 512 00:28:51.190 --> 00:28:55.750 Right. The stock market is up. And people are like, why 513 00:28:55.750 --> 00:28:59.320 everything's terrible, right. But some of these really big 514 00:28:59.320 --> 00:29:02.170 companies are doing excellent right now, like Amazon's doing 515 00:29:02.170 --> 00:29:05.950 great. You have Shopify, it's doing really, really good. And 516 00:29:05.950 --> 00:29:10.030 guess what, Shopify also makes loans, to the businesses that 517 00:29:10.030 --> 00:29:13.570 are on their platform. And they are quickly shifting up the 518 00:29:13.570 --> 00:29:17.290 ranks to be to being one of the largest business lenders in the 519 00:29:17.290 --> 00:29:21.460 country. In fact, the largest non bank business lender right 520 00:29:21.460 --> 00:29:23.740 now is PayPal. Yeah. 521 00:29:25.420 --> 00:29:28.510 Johny Fernandez: Which is wild, because you don't you wouldn't 522 00:29:28.510 --> 00:29:31.630 think necessarily that they would have those resources 523 00:29:31.630 --> 00:29:34.480 because I think when people think PayPal, or just like think 524 00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:37.600 any of those, it's just like, oh, like a transactional? 525 00:29:38.170 --> 00:29:40.990 Sean Murray: I looked at a list from like, 10 years ago, who the 526 00:29:40.990 --> 00:29:46.330 top non bank, alternative funders were right. And people 527 00:29:46.330 --> 00:29:48.130 were like, well, one day these companies are gonna be bigger 528 00:29:48.130 --> 00:29:56.830 than Chase, in lending volume. Instead, they got usurped by a 529 00:29:56.830 --> 00:30:01.240 new breed of alternative finance company. And in some cases, 530 00:30:02.500 --> 00:30:05.050 companies that have been around for a long time that were able 531 00:30:05.050 --> 00:30:09.010 to add another product to their, to their business like PayPal 532 00:30:09.010 --> 00:30:11.950 was a payments company, PayPal's old now PayPal is more than 20 533 00:30:11.950 --> 00:30:14.740 years old, right? But they could just be like, hey, we're gonna 534 00:30:14.740 --> 00:30:18.370 do loans now. Yeah. Everyone's got PayPal. Yeah. All of sudden 535 00:30:18.370 --> 00:30:20.020 everyone can get a loan from PayPal. Well, you have to be 536 00:30:20.020 --> 00:30:20.590 eligible. 537 00:30:20.620 --> 00:30:23.710 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. But you can still, isn't it easier to go 538 00:30:23.710 --> 00:30:26.140 through them than going through a bank? For the most part? 539 00:30:26.170 --> 00:30:27.670 Sean Murray: Yeah, it's definitely easier. I don't know 540 00:30:27.670 --> 00:30:30.550 if it'll be less expensive. It'll be, it's definitely 541 00:30:30.550 --> 00:30:33.580 easier. And same with like, you know, companies like Shopify 542 00:30:33.580 --> 00:30:36.310 too, if you're already using Shopify, and you just had to 543 00:30:36.310 --> 00:30:41.260 click the Shopify capital button to get money. Yeah. It's a huge 544 00:30:41.260 --> 00:30:44.710 advantage. Yeah. Why are they going to call a broker who's 545 00:30:44.710 --> 00:30:46.600 going to connect them with a funder who's going to ask for 546 00:30:46.600 --> 00:30:49.450 paperwork, because they don't know anything about you. The E 547 00:30:49.450 --> 00:30:51.940 commerce company knows your entire business, you are their 548 00:30:51.940 --> 00:30:55.600 business, right? All you have to do is hit hit the button, 549 00:30:55.630 --> 00:30:57.130 they'll know right away if you're good or not. 550 00:30:58.330 --> 00:31:00.070 Johny Fernandez: So who's the biggest funder right now? 551 00:31:00.630 --> 00:31:04.230 Sean Murray: So it's PayPal, right? And Square, though, is 552 00:31:04.230 --> 00:31:09.270 coming up there too. And so it's interesting. I was trying to 553 00:31:09.270 --> 00:31:12.510 think I was trying to find like an analogy with. I don't know if 554 00:31:12.510 --> 00:31:16.830 I came up with a perfect one. But Square is kind of what every 555 00:31:17.610 --> 00:31:23.760 sort of like Merchant Cash Advance Sales Rep wanted to be 556 00:31:23.820 --> 00:31:28.110 10 years ago. Okay. Square came in, they dominated the payments, 557 00:31:28.230 --> 00:31:30.870 business, right. And merchant cash advances used to be tied 558 00:31:30.870 --> 00:31:33.810 into payments. And so if you wanted to have a big MCA 559 00:31:33.810 --> 00:31:37.770 portfolio, you had to have a lot of merchant service accounts 560 00:31:37.770 --> 00:31:42.750 too, so Square comes in, they dominate that. And they dominate 561 00:31:42.750 --> 00:31:47.280 the financing industry too. And then what do they do they buy 562 00:31:47.310 --> 00:31:51.330 $50 million worth of Bitcoin on top of it, right? That's, that 563 00:31:51.330 --> 00:31:54.030 was kind of the dream. Yeah. You come in, you dominate payments, 564 00:31:54.030 --> 00:31:56.700 you dominate financing, and then you throw away $50 million into 565 00:31:56.700 --> 00:31:59.730 Bitcoin and sit back and watch the stock go up. And you know, 566 00:31:59.730 --> 00:32:01.260 that's, that's, that's life. 567 00:32:01.300 --> 00:32:04.780 Johny Fernandez: That's the end of it. Which is wild, I mean, 568 00:32:05.260 --> 00:32:07.360 but yeah, I mean, they definitely dominated and now 569 00:32:07.360 --> 00:32:11.110 that I feel like they're always someone to like, keep your eye 570 00:32:11.110 --> 00:32:13.990 on because they'll pull out something completely new out of 571 00:32:13.990 --> 00:32:16.960 the blue. And you're like, oh, wow, like, these guys are on it. 572 00:32:16.990 --> 00:32:21.910 For sure. Yeah. And it's always I mean, at this point, the world 573 00:32:21.910 --> 00:32:26.470 has changed after Coronavirus. And then they're not going 574 00:32:26.470 --> 00:32:28.450 anywhere. Like everything's done online. Everything's done 575 00:32:28.450 --> 00:32:31.900 through your phone. While I think human interaction, 576 00:32:32.050 --> 00:32:35.470 everyone desires it now more than you know, before, but like 577 00:32:35.470 --> 00:32:37.750 you said, I definitely do agree with the fact that like, people 578 00:32:37.750 --> 00:32:40.210 are going to incorporate like, when we go back to like, normal 579 00:32:40.210 --> 00:32:43.540 life, whatever that looks like, people will incorporate these 580 00:32:43.540 --> 00:32:47.980 things, these technological advances in our life, and it's 581 00:32:47.980 --> 00:32:51.610 just part of life now, like. Yeah. Ordering groceries and not 582 00:32:51.610 --> 00:32:52.450 going to the store. 583 00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:54.820 Sean Murray: Yeah. You know, one thing I don't think will 584 00:32:54.820 --> 00:32:58.360 continue to be a really big part of our lives is Zoom. 585 00:32:58.450 --> 00:33:00.190 Johny Fernandez: Yeah, absolutely. People are zoomed 586 00:33:00.190 --> 00:33:01.120 out. We've talked about it. 587 00:33:01.120 --> 00:33:03.640 Sean Murray: Yeah. I mean, but now now, compared to what when 588 00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:06.700 we were talking about it a few months ago. Yeah. People are 589 00:33:06.700 --> 00:33:08.350 like, repulsed. 590 00:33:08.350 --> 00:33:10.690 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. Well, I think it'd be interesting to 591 00:33:10.690 --> 00:33:14.800 talk about this now. Like, obviously, we've had, we always 592 00:33:14.800 --> 00:33:20.230 do events here at deBanked. But I guess, what have you seen in 593 00:33:20.230 --> 00:33:23.890 regards to the desire that people want to go back to in 594 00:33:23.890 --> 00:33:26.530 person events versus doing something like a Zoom event, 595 00:33:26.530 --> 00:33:28.810 which a lot of people, a lot of companies and organizations and 596 00:33:28.810 --> 00:33:32.110 organizations had to do, because there was no other option, and 597 00:33:32.110 --> 00:33:34.240 they had an event, you know, planned out. 598 00:33:35.050 --> 00:33:36.970 Sean Murray: My personal opinion is that the virtual event 599 00:33:36.970 --> 00:33:45.100 concept is done. People want to do things in person. And I have 600 00:33:45.100 --> 00:33:47.650 constant conversations with people all over the country. 601 00:33:47.650 --> 00:33:51.730 Right? We live in New York. Yeah. So we live in like, you 602 00:33:51.730 --> 00:33:55.060 could call it the ground zero of of a pandemic. Yeah. Because 603 00:33:55.060 --> 00:33:57.910 we're close together with everybody. But in other states, 604 00:33:57.940 --> 00:34:00.430 they don't they're not operating like we are. Yeah. There are 605 00:34:00.430 --> 00:34:02.980 states where you don't have to wear a mask, and nobody does. 606 00:34:03.250 --> 00:34:06.880 And nobody thinks about it. Yeah. Right. And these are 607 00:34:06.910 --> 00:34:10.630 potential people who might want to come to our events. And so 608 00:34:10.930 --> 00:34:13.960 when I tell them, you know, it's not a good time to have one 609 00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:18.550 right now. It's hard for them to just understand. Yeah. But at 610 00:34:18.550 --> 00:34:25.360 the same time, I noticed that there are those who express that 611 00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:32.230 they are not afraid of the virus, who actually are. They 612 00:34:32.740 --> 00:34:36.340 talk a big game about freedom. This is a whole other topic, 613 00:34:36.340 --> 00:34:39.400 right? Yeah. And I totally believe in the whole freedom, I 614 00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:43.180 believe in all the freedom aspect of it, right. But when it 615 00:34:43.180 --> 00:34:46.900 comes to okay, so will you come to a mass gathering right now? 616 00:34:48.010 --> 00:34:52.390 They're like, well, not me. Maybe someone else. Yeah. I'll 617 00:34:52.390 --> 00:34:56.830 watch it remotely. Yeah. You know, so they they act as if 618 00:34:56.830 --> 00:35:00.520 they want to go to one this very second. Yeah. But they're like, 619 00:35:00.520 --> 00:35:07.360 well, not actually. Yeah. And so it's confusing. Yeah. In terms 620 00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:10.870 of when you want to put events together, that's all. That's all 621 00:35:10.870 --> 00:35:12.640 I was really trying to get at. I wasn't trying to get to any 622 00:35:12.640 --> 00:35:15.460 politics or anything like that. But we tried to figure out, 623 00:35:15.610 --> 00:35:18.040 when's the best time to have an event. And so if everyone's 624 00:35:18.040 --> 00:35:20.050 demanding, we have one and we want to meet in person, right? 625 00:35:20.050 --> 00:35:22.870 Now we start to think about it very seriously. Should we have 626 00:35:22.870 --> 00:35:25.330 one? Where can we have one? What are the laws about having one, 627 00:35:26.440 --> 00:35:29.110 who would come who would feel comfortable, and we've just 628 00:35:29.110 --> 00:35:31.750 found that those who expressed that they would feel comfortable 629 00:35:32.260 --> 00:35:36.700 when given the prospect of actually coming to one, are 630 00:35:36.700 --> 00:35:38.800 actually have a lot more reservations than they 631 00:35:38.860 --> 00:35:43.660 originally led on to. So I think we're really going to need to 632 00:35:43.660 --> 00:35:49.690 have the vaccine available for people to have to comfort you 633 00:35:49.690 --> 00:35:56.440 and for people to do what they want to do. That's my thought on 634 00:35:56.440 --> 00:35:56.590 it. 635 00:35:57.130 --> 00:36:00.250 Johny Fernandez: So let's talk about this the new magazine. 636 00:36:00.460 --> 00:36:05.530 Okay. So let's I mean, obviously, it's funny, because I 637 00:36:05.530 --> 00:36:08.560 think the title itself is great. It's like when the music stops 638 00:36:08.560 --> 00:36:12.100 how the pandemic threatened the history and culture of Austin, 639 00:36:12.100 --> 00:36:18.130 Texas. But I think what's interesting is how it affected 640 00:36:18.130 --> 00:36:21.460 all of us like, no, but specifically this, but I think. 641 00:36:21.490 --> 00:36:25.300 Yeah. This can be taken, put anywhere. And yeah, but yeah, 642 00:36:25.300 --> 00:36:27.370 let's talk about the magazine. I mean, the new article. 643 00:36:27.660 --> 00:36:29.550 Sean Murray: So that's the future story. It's about how 644 00:36:29.550 --> 00:36:32.550 the, how the pandemic threatened the history and culture of 645 00:36:32.550 --> 00:36:36.870 Austin, Texas, right. So I think too often we're thinking about 646 00:36:36.990 --> 00:36:43.410 how does it affect a restaurant? How does it affect a baseball 647 00:36:43.710 --> 00:36:48.690 team, right. But we don't really think about a culture being lost 648 00:36:48.720 --> 00:36:53.580 as a result of a pandemic. Austin is pretty much known for 649 00:36:53.580 --> 00:36:56.760 its music history. Now, I'm not the author of this particular 650 00:36:56.760 --> 00:37:00.060 story, right. But the music culture is very big in Austin. 651 00:37:00.630 --> 00:37:03.480 And a lot of people are involved in that industry, because they 652 00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:06.660 have a passion for music. So if you run a music hall in Austin, 653 00:37:06.990 --> 00:37:09.630 it doesn't mean that you make a ton of money doing it, you're 654 00:37:09.630 --> 00:37:12.270 doing it because you love music. And it's part of the culture, 655 00:37:12.420 --> 00:37:15.180 it;s part of your you know, it's your passion. And you have bands 656 00:37:15.180 --> 00:37:18.900 that share that same passion. And so when a pandemic comes, 657 00:37:19.350 --> 00:37:21.840 and you can't pay your rent, you can't pay a mortgage, and you 658 00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:25.620 can't host any events. It's devastating. Yeah. Because they 659 00:37:25.620 --> 00:37:29.070 probably did not have a ton of cash set aside for this type of 660 00:37:29.070 --> 00:37:33.780 event. And in terms of being able to recover, we were talking 661 00:37:33.780 --> 00:37:37.770 about earlier, like, a few months, goodbye, and you owe 662 00:37:37.770 --> 00:37:39.840 money to your landlord, and you're like trying to make a 663 00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:45.180 work out deal, right? In certain parts of the country, people 664 00:37:45.180 --> 00:37:50.700 might look at the business that you had, and think that place 665 00:37:50.730 --> 00:37:53.970 could be better used at something else. Now that you 666 00:37:53.970 --> 00:37:56.010 haven't paid me for a few months, now that you're 667 00:37:56.010 --> 00:37:59.310 struggling, you know, I'd rather turn this venue that you have 668 00:37:59.910 --> 00:38:04.230 into an apartment complex, or an office building. Yeah. And they 669 00:38:04.230 --> 00:38:08.520 don't really want to do any work outs, right, it's more 670 00:38:08.520 --> 00:38:12.030 profitable to actually let the business die. And so you have 671 00:38:12.030 --> 00:38:15.120 this whole situation in Austin, Texas, where you have all these 672 00:38:15.120 --> 00:38:18.420 music halls, essentially on the verge of going out of business, 673 00:38:18.420 --> 00:38:20.730 or in the case of one that we actually started off at the 674 00:38:20.730 --> 00:38:25.170 story starts off talking about a place called Thread Gills, the 675 00:38:25.170 --> 00:38:28.170 staple the Austin community. And it starts off talking about how 676 00:38:28.170 --> 00:38:32.310 the place is in dire, dire straits. Right. And it's 677 00:38:32.310 --> 00:38:35.370 heartbreaking to read about, and there's several others that we 678 00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:38.970 that we talked about in the story. But the writers name is 679 00:38:38.970 --> 00:38:42.120 Paul Sweeney. He told me like you got to publish the story 680 00:38:42.120 --> 00:38:44.790 online now. And I'm like, we really wanted to wait for it to 681 00:38:44.790 --> 00:38:47.460 go in print. Before we just share it out. Yeah. Out there on 682 00:38:47.460 --> 00:38:49.440 the internet. He's like, the problem is you'd like the 683 00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:51.750 circumstances of some of the businesses is going to change 684 00:38:51.750 --> 00:38:55.440 dramatically. By the time you put it out there in print. I'm 685 00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:59.160 like, in like, two weeks or a month, and he's like, yeah, very 686 00:38:59.160 --> 00:39:04.020 possibly. So when we put out this story online, that main 687 00:39:04.020 --> 00:39:07.050 venue, Thread Gills actually went out of business completely 688 00:39:07.110 --> 00:39:10.920 to the point where two weeks ago, they held their very last 689 00:39:11.190 --> 00:39:16.470 concert. And not only is their new ownership, but they're doing 690 00:39:16.470 --> 00:39:19.410 exactly what I said could happen before the new owners, this is 691 00:39:19.410 --> 00:39:26.520 what I read. So the new owners plan to bulldoze the building, 692 00:39:26.850 --> 00:39:32.820 and turn it into apartments. And so you have this historic place 693 00:39:32.850 --> 00:39:36.150 in Austin part of the music culture of the city. That's 694 00:39:36.210 --> 00:39:39.090 because of the pandemic is literally going to get not just 695 00:39:39.090 --> 00:39:41.370 new ownership. And you know, it's like, oh, it's different 696 00:39:41.370 --> 00:39:44.790 now. Right, literally gonna get bulldozed and turn into 697 00:39:44.790 --> 00:39:49.530 apartments, and that will never come back. And so that's one 698 00:39:49.560 --> 00:39:52.200 well, that's why we focus on what why Austin, Texas, you know 699 00:39:52.200 --> 00:39:54.720 what I mean, that's kind of the whole point is that we're not 700 00:39:54.720 --> 00:39:56.820 just losing a business here and they're like, oh, well, new 701 00:39:56.850 --> 00:39:59.850 capitalism is new business will come in and you know, everything 702 00:39:59.850 --> 00:40:02.190 will be fine. The problem is that we could lose entire parts 703 00:40:02.190 --> 00:40:06.060 of American culture too. So that's the main story that we 704 00:40:06.060 --> 00:40:08.550 lead with. Then we also talked about what's happened with 705 00:40:08.550 --> 00:40:11.130 OnDeck, OnDeck this year. Rollercoaster. OnDeck roller 706 00:40:11.130 --> 00:40:14.370 coaster. Yeah. People know a lot about what's happened there. 707 00:40:14.370 --> 00:40:17.910 They were, they were recently acquired by Enova. There's quite 708 00:40:17.910 --> 00:40:20.250 a bit of drama, you were actually reporting outside 709 00:40:20.250 --> 00:40:24.690 their. I do remember, we're outside their headquarters. 710 00:40:24.690 --> 00:40:28.470 Yeah. And then and then we did a story that actually you were 711 00:40:28.500 --> 00:40:31.890 this is based on your report. Yeah. So when you were at 712 00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:35.670 Horizon Financial Group, so we turned that into a story. We 713 00:40:35.670 --> 00:40:40.350 thought that was a really good snapshot of how small commercial 714 00:40:40.350 --> 00:40:43.950 finance brokerages were managing the pandemic. So we took that 715 00:40:44.010 --> 00:40:46.440 report that you did when you went out there and we, and we 716 00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:47.490 turned it into a little story. 717 00:40:47.640 --> 00:40:50.790 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. And it's, it's really interesting, just 718 00:40:50.790 --> 00:40:54.000 seeing, obviously, the changes going on between, you know, just 719 00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:57.060 different businesses. And, you know, either they're out or 720 00:40:57.060 --> 00:40:59.940 they've had to adjust and now they've branched off to like, 721 00:40:59.970 --> 00:41:04.440 even bigger things that they wasn't on the map for them. And 722 00:41:04.620 --> 00:41:09.510 they just had to, like, do it. And they're going and they're 723 00:41:09.510 --> 00:41:14.040 striving and it's a 2020 pandemic year. So 724 00:41:14.070 --> 00:41:16.997 Sean Murray: Yeah. What's crazy that we could have an entire 725 00:41:17.059 --> 00:41:18.990 another year of all this right? 726 00:41:18.990 --> 00:41:19.620 Johny Fernandez: Yeah. 727 00:41:19.620 --> 00:41:20.070 Sean Murray: So 728 00:41:20.070 --> 00:41:21.120 Johny Fernandez: So, we'll see what happens. 729 00:41:21.120 --> 00:41:23.160 Sean Murray: Yeah. Crazy. 730 00:41:23.160 --> 00:41:25.800 Johny Fernandez: Alright, Sean. Thanks for coming through. It's 731 00:41:25.857 --> 00:41:28.440 been great having you. And everyone watching. 732 00:41:28.470 --> 00:41:31.110 Sean Murray: Yeah, thanks for hosting me here at our office. 733 00:41:32.580 --> 00:41:35.443 Johny Fernandez: At our office. deBanked headquarters here in 734 00:41:35.508 --> 00:41:36.420 New York City. 735 00:41:36.420 --> 00:41:37.410 Sean Murray: Hopefully, I come back again soon. 736 00:41:37.410 --> 00:41:39.978 Johny Fernandez: Hopefully you come back soon here. Yeah, and 737 00:41:40.036 --> 00:41:43.247 thanks, you guys for watching. Appreciate it, and we'll 738 00:41:43.305 --> 00:41:44.940 definitely do it again soon.